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  • I’m becoming increasingly convinced that I’ll always be hoping for Lea the coach while loving Freeman the recruiter.

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    • Through the first half of the season we are allowing 24.33333 points per game. That’s not top 50. Better be a great recruiter with numbers like that.
      Maybe it's far too soon to tell.

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      • My hope is Vanderbilt continues tanking and Lea comes back. For whatever reason I just don't think an attacking defense works here, it's struggled to take hold before. I love that we're getting picks, but we're giving up easy TDs to teams we have no business giving up a bunch of TDs to. Through 6 games we've given up an average of 23.3 points per game. Through 6 games last year we had given up 10.3 points and with the exception of Cincinnati the opponents weren't much different.

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        • I’ve said from Day 1 I’d caution expecting Freeman to come close to Lea as a DC in the coaching aspect. BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot. The DL is the only position group that is at the talent level it should be. A 2021 ND Lea D would likely be better than this one, but would have also likely been worse than last two years directly because of Lea.

          Looking at Playoff aspirations, Lea was never going to land the type of talent that would be needed to stop Playoff caliber offenses. Freeman can. From there you hope the talent + the Xs and Os is better than less talent with better Xs and Os

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dale View Post
            I’ve said from Day 1 I’d caution expecting Freeman to come close to Lea as a DC in the coaching aspect. BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot. The DL is the only position group that is at the talent level it should be. A 2021 ND Lea D would likely be better than this one, but would have also likely been worse than last two years directly because of Lea.

            Looking at Playoff aspirations, Lea was never going to land the type of talent that would be needed to stop Playoff caliber offenses. Freeman can. From there you hope the talent + the Xs and Os is better than less talent with better Xs and Os
            I do agree that I think we've lacked the fast, attacking type players across the board to make that defense work in the past. We may get some here and there, but If we land a handful of some of those freaks it could make the difference.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dale View Post
              I’ve said from Day 1 I’d caution expecting Freeman to come close to Lea as a DC in the coaching aspect. BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot. The DL is the only position group that is at the talent level it should be. A 2021 ND Lea D would likely be better than this one, but would have also likely been worse than last two years directly because of Lea.

              Looking at Playoff aspirations, Lea was never going to land the type of talent that would be needed to stop Playoff caliber offenses. Freeman can. From there you hope the talent + the Xs and Os is better than less talent with better Xs and Os
              Lea held 2018 Clemson (one of the best offenses in the past couple years) to a reasonable point total. If ND played an offense with similar talent this year they’d lose by 8 touchdowns. Lol.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bluto View Post

                Lea held 2018 Clemson (one of the best offenses in the past couple years) to a reasonable point total. If ND played an offense with similar talent this year they’d lose by 8 touchdowns. Lol.
                That’s kind of the point though right? That D had Lea’s coaching + talent largely recruited by not Lea.

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                • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                  That’s kind of the point though right? That D had Lea’s coaching + talent largely recruited by not Lea.
                  Wel then how about 2019? Held Georgia pretty much in check.

                  2020? The ACC championship game held Clemson to 30 some odd points. Same with Bama in the bowl game. The problem in all those games was not the defense. Unless your expectation is to hold those teams to a field goal in order to win.

                  Anyhow, seems to me like that’s good enough to win a championship level of play on that side of the ball.



                  Last edited by Bluto; 10-10-2021, 01:41 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                    I’ve said from Day 1 I’d caution expecting Freeman to come close to Lea as a DC in the coaching aspect. BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot. The DL is the only position group that is at the talent level it should be. A 2021 ND Lea D would likely be better than this one, but would have also likely been worse than last two years directly because of Lea.

                    Looking at Playoff aspirations, Lea was never going to land the type of talent that would be needed to stop Playoff caliber offenses. Freeman can. From there you hope the talent + the Xs and Os is better than less talent with better Xs and Os
                    I am not saying that we don’t need that upgraded talent because it’s clear we do. We need to quit offering so many 3 star Db’s. The things that work me are things talent don’t fix.

                    Our tackling has been bad. We don’t wrap up very well. That’s fundamentals.

                    I don’t see the in game adjustments that I saw with Lea. His inability to use the players now to their best ability. Foskey in coverage is a waste. He is a physical guy that pins his ears back and goes after the QB like a mad man. You can’t teach that ability. And considering the over all play of the D-line this year it is the strength of the defense use that depth. Our linebacker depth isn’t good due to injuries but don’t expose them either.
                    Last edited by irishff1014; 10-10-2021, 08:47 AM.
                    Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

                    Comment


                    • Yeah, Freeman's lack of in game adjustments is concerning. VT did their homework and their game plan going in was to run the QB. They even had the previously unused back up to help do it. We never really stopped it. On their next to last drive Burmeister got 8 on a 3rd and 9, if he had gotten another yard they probably beat us.

                      We'll continue to see this until we show we can stop it. I like Freeman scheme vs a drop back QB who doesn't run (like USC) but teams with a QB who can run are giving us fits.

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                      • In today’s CFB if you want to beat the big boys you have to outscore them. Defense is secondary. Holding any team to under 30 points should result in a win most of the time. Look at Bama losing. If you want to beat Bama you just have to outscore them and have a few TOs because you are not going to stop them defensively. Saban said this himself. Same with OSU and Clemson. I’d say our offensive output is what’s holding us back. Any serviceable Dthat generates TOs will be sufficient to win in CFB.
                        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                        • Even given offenses of today, there’s no reason you can’t have a good defense.

                          Tackling has been terrible. I wonder how much time is spent on basics during practice? Freeman’s D puts guys in one on one situations in space. That’s when you better be able to tackle.

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                          • Originally posted by Bluto View Post

                            Wel then how about 2019? Held Georgia pretty much in check.

                            2020? The ACC championship game held Clemson to 30 some odd points. Same with Bama in the bowl game. The problem in all those games was not the defense. Unless your expectation is to hold those teams to a field goal in order to win.

                            Anyhow, seems to me like that’s good enough to win a championship level of play on that side of the ball.


                            I don’t understand how this isn’t clear from my original post. Again that is the point. My post started with talking about Lea leaving Freeman with lesser talent. Does the lag of Lea recruited a kid in 2019 now is on our roster in 2021 not clear?

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                            • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
                              Even given offenses of today, there’s no reason you can’t have a good defense.

                              Tackling has been terrible. I wonder how much time is spent on basics during practice? Freeman’s D puts guys in one on one situations in space. That’s when you better be able to tackle.
                              I’m saying you can’t have a good one lol
                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                              • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                In today’s CFB if you want to beat the big boys you have to outscore them. Defense is secondary. Holding any team to under 30 points should result in a win most of the time. Look at Bama losing. If you want to beat Bama you just have to outscore them and have a few TOs because you are not going to stop them defensively. Saban said this himself. Same with OSU and Clemson. I’d say our offensive output is what’s holding us back. Any serviceable Dthat generates TOs will be sufficient to win in CFB.
                                A&M also has you know one of the best defenses in the country. Without it they’re O isn’t even in the position to pull off the upset, see Ole Miss. First round talent at CB on the last couple national champions isn’t a coincidence, and the current national title favorite has 2.

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                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                  A&M also has you know one of the best defenses in the country. Without it they’re O isn’t even in the position to pull off the upset, see Ole Miss. First round talent at CB on the last couple national champions isn’t a coincidence, and the current national title favorite has 2.
                                  Not sure what metric you are looking at but just looking at NCAA stats AM is 40th. Ok…. We have NFL talent on our team too. Like I said. Your D has to be serviceable and generate TOs which AM was and did. IDK why this is controversial lol.

                                  Am Is 28th in defensive 3rd down conversion. VT is 14th.

                                  AM is 22 in passing yards allowed. Not even in the top 50 for rushing yards allowed.

                                  13th in Rz which is great and very important and in scoring they were only giving up 13 or so game I think. Bama hung over 30 on them. Plus they have multiple losses already as well and were Unranked so the d can’t be GREAT. In this game AMs offense was able to outscore Bama who has a comparable defense to AM. Again…not sure what I said was in any way untrue.

                                  This is not a top d in my opinion but it is very good and their play against the Bama juggernaut is what I’d consider serviceable.
                                  Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 10-10-2021, 10:13 AM.
                                  "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                  • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                    Not sure what metric you are looking at but just looking at NCAA stats AM is 40th. Ok…. We have NFL talent on our team too. Like I said. Your D has to be serviceable and generate TOs which AM was and did. IDK why this is controversial lol.

                                    Am Is 28th in defensive 3rd down conversion. VT is 14th.

                                    AM is 22 in passing yards allowed. Not even in the top 50 for rushing yards allowed.

                                    13th in Rz which is great and very important.

                                    This is not a top d in my opinion but it is very good and what I’d consider serviceable.
                                    I don’t think your opinion is controversial but I think it’s also way simplifying what is needed to stop a Bama, OSU, 2019 LSU etc. “Serviceable” versus a elite O needs elite talent. C’mon you know the A&M D is way more talented and one of the best defenses in the country compared to Va Tech that’s just silly. A what you’re calling a serviceable D is actually filled with elite NFL talent, anything less it doesn’t matter what you’re O is. Look at Florida last year. If your swap Surtain II and a UF CB does UF get 2-3 more stops in the SEC championship game and beat Bama?

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                                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                      I don’t think your opinion is controversial but I think it’s also way simplifying what is needed to stop a Bama, OSU, 2019 LSU etc. “Serviceable” versus a elite O needs elite talent. C’mon you know the A&M D is way more talented and one of the best defenses in the country compared to Va Tech that’s just silly. A what you’re calling a serviceable D is actually filled with elite NFL talent, anything less it doesn’t matter what you’re O is. Look at Florida last year. If your swap Surtain II and a UF CB does UF get 2-3 more stops in the SEC championship game and beat Bama?
                                      Any D is good at certain things and not great at others hence even with talent they have to be serviceable. They have to be able to get stops and generate TOs. You think Clemson versus OSU last year had anything to do with talent? Did the UC vs ND game have much to do with talent? I’m not negating talent clearly as it matters but ultimately it’s performance and execution and manufacturing Offense and Defense.

                                      It’s actually pretty simple. Lol. If you outscore your opponent then you win. If your defense only gives up 10 points you better score 11. If you average giving up 20 points to conference opponents. You better be a able to score way more than that against the big boys because they are gonna find out ways to score on you which is what we saw with Am vs Bama. It’s pretty simple. The onus is on the O to score and the d to do what they can to slow down the O of the other team. It’s literally a quote from Saban who has completely changed his outlook on D in CFB.

                                      Look at OU and UT. There might as well have not even been a defense on the field for all the good it was doing n
                                      Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 10-10-2021, 10:28 AM.
                                      "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                        I don’t think your opinion is controversial but I think it’s also way simplifying what is needed to stop a Bama, OSU, 2019 LSU etc. “Serviceable” versus a elite O needs elite talent. C’mon you know the A&M D is way more talented and one of the best defenses in the country compared to Va Tech that’s just silly. A what you’re calling a serviceable D is actually filled with elite NFL talent, anything less it doesn’t matter what you’re O is. Look at Florida last year. If your swap Surtain II and a UF CB does UF get 2-3 more stops in the SEC championship game and beat Bama?
                                        I think there were deeper issues for that Florida team than poor CB play, but point taken.

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                                        • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                          Any D is good at certain things and not great at others hence even with talent they have to be serviceable. They have to be able to get stops and generate TOs. You think Clemson versus OSU last year had anything to do with talent? Did the UC vs ND game have much to do with talent? I’m not negating talent clearly as it matters but ultimately it’s performance and execution and manufacturing Offense and Defense.

                                          It’s actually pretty simple. Lol. If you outscore your opponent then you win. If your defense only gives up 10 points you better score 11. If you average giving up 20 points to conference opponents. You better be a able to score way more than that against the big boys because they are gonna find out ways to score on you which is what we saw with Am vs Bama. It’s pretty simple. The onus is on the O to score and the d to do what they can to slow down the O of the other team. It’s literally a quote from Saban who has completely changed his outlook on D in CFB.

                                          Look at OU and UT. There might as well have not even been a defense on the field for all the good it was doing n
                                          Yes and the talent needed to have a D that can even slightly slow down the O IN THE PLAYOFF is talent Freeman can recruit, and Lea could not. That’s how this started. I think we’re agreeing you’re just calling it a serviceable D and I’m saying that D you call servicable needs elite talent.

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                                          • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                            Yes and the talent needed to have a D that can slow down the O IN THE PLAYOFF is talent Freeman can recruit, and Lea could not. That’s how this started. I think we’re agreeing you’re just calling it a serviceable D and I’m saying that D you call servicable needs elite talent.
                                            I am not arguing that there aren’t difference makers. There are and they make differences. We had enough talent and serviceability to hold teams below 15 ppg under Lea. Our offense could only manage 25ish ppg. That was good enough for some very good years but our fault Dear Brutus was not with our D but with our O against more stout defenses. Against Bama we only need to score 35 points and couldn’t/didn’t .
                                            "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                            • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                              I am not arguing that there aren’t difference makers. There are and they make differences. We had enough talent and serviceability to hold teams below 15 ppg under Lea. Our offense could only manage 25ish ppg. That was good enough for some very good years but our fault Dear Brutus was not with our D but with our O against more stout defenses. Against Bama we only need to score 35 points and couldn’t/didn’t .
                                              Yeah and if we had the O to score with Bama, Bama would have had the ball more and scored more too. Clarence Lewis isn’t suddenly tackling Devonta on the extra possessions created because our O is better.

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                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                Yeah and if we had the O to score with Bama, Bama would have had the ball more and scored more too. Clarence Lewis isn’t suddenly tackling Devonta on the extra possessions created because our O is better.
                                                Eh I’ll have to disagree with this. I’ll wager most scoring drives take up more time than three and outs. My expectation would have been we would have shortened the game as much as possible which is something Kelly loves to do and something you should do against offensive juggernauts. We also out of all the teams Bama faced last year held them to their lowest point total of the season…. We just couldn’t manufacture points to counter.
                                                Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 10-10-2021, 10:52 AM.
                                                "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                  I’ve said from Day 1 I’d caution expecting Freeman to come close to Lea as a DC in the coaching aspect. BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot. The DL is the only position group that is at the talent level it should be. A 2021 ND Lea D would likely be better than this one, but would have also likely been worse than last two years directly because of Lea.

                                                  Looking at Playoff aspirations, Lea was never going to land the type of talent that would be needed to stop Playoff caliber offenses. Freeman can. From there you hope the talent + the Xs and Os is better than less talent with better Xs and Os
                                                  You can make excuses for Freeman, but please be at least factual. This year's defensive personnel is as deep and athletic as we have had in quite sometime. Name me a team we have played so far that our defense lacked the personnel to match up. You can't. You write about the talent level to compete against playoff caliber offenses, but fail to ponder why his defense with noticeable talent advantages is inconsistent against sub par offenses this year. ?

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                                                  • Originally posted by N_D_Fighting_Irish View Post

                                                    You can make excuses for Freeman, but please be at least factual. This year's defensive personnel is as deep and athletic as we have had in quite sometime. Name me a team we have played so far that our defense lacked the personnel to match up. You can't. You write about the talent level to compete against playoff caliber offenses, but fail to ponder why his defense with noticeable talent advantages is inconsistent against sub par offenses this year. ?
                                                    What exactly is the fact about the defensive personnel I misspoke on versus fact you quoted? Are you saying our defensive roster is as deep and athletic as we’ve had is a fact?

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                                                    • Originally posted by N_D_Fighting_Irish View Post

                                                      You can make excuses for Freeman, but please be at least factual. This year's defensive personnel is as deep and athletic as we have had in quite sometime. Name me a team we have played so far that our defense lacked the personnel to match up. You can't. You write about the talent level to compete against playoff caliber offenses, but fail to ponder why his defense with noticeable talent advantages is inconsistent against sub par offenses this year. ?
                                                      Did you watch the UC game? Didn’t see any personnel issues on UCs TE vs us? None? Don’t think a higher level of talent at Rover or S could have helped not have Bertrand covering in space?

                                                      If you’re going to call out facts, look up the team talent roster on D on 247sports.

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                                                      • In Freeman's first year at Cincy the overall national ranking for his defense was #72 and his last year was #12. After 6 games we are ready for Lea back? I don't foresee him coming back.

                                                        I think Freeman's defenses at ND will improve like they did at Cincy. Plus it will be interesting to see how his defense looks when the guys he recruits come in.

                                                        In Freeman I trust.

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                                                        • Originally posted by irishandy View Post
                                                          In Freeman's first year at Cincy the overall national ranking for his defense was #72 and his last year was #12. After 6 games we are ready for Lea back? I don't foresee him coming back.

                                                          I think Freeman's defenses at ND will improve like they did at Cincy. Plus it will be interesting to see how his defense looks when the guys he recruits come in.

                                                          In Freeman I trust.
                                                          Look at the teams he coached against. They are not the same level that ND is on. I understand that he did well against the team they played week in and week out. But Tulsa is not VT nor is it UNC. UCF is the best team they play in conference and they are good not great.

                                                          Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                          • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                            Did you watch the UC game? Didn’t see any personnel issues on UCs TE vs us? None? Don’t think a higher level of talent at Rover or S could have helped not have Bertrand covering in space?

                                                            If you’re going to call out facts, look up the team talent roster on D on 247sports.
                                                            There were defensive coaching issues as well in the Cinnci game.

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                                                            • Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post

                                                              Look at the teams he coached against. They are not the same level that ND is on. I understand that he did well against the team they played week in and week out. But Tulsa is not VT nor is it UNC. UCF is the best team they play in conference and they are good not great.
                                                              I agree with your response. ND's schedule vs Cincy's schedule are different levels. The same with recruiting- the recruits that have committed to the 2022 class do you think they commit to Cincy? I don't.

                                                              We are 6 fricking games into Freeman's career and Mario was supposed to save Princess 4 games ago!?!? WTF are people thinking.

                                                              It took time with Lea, it is going to take time with Freeman.

                                                              Freeman will be fine at ND...patience!

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                                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                What exactly is the fact about the defensive personnel I misspoke on versus fact you quoted? Are you saying our defensive roster is as deep and athletic as we’ve had is a fact?
                                                                Factually, your remark that "BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot." is demonstrably false. Our DL is competently two deep. LB core has depth to weather multiple injuries, and a secondary with enough numbers to play dime.

                                                                For years, our defense has lacked depth. Typically, we had four-five solid DL starters and a decent drop in quality back ups. LB depth was non existent with a couple of starters as question marks. Secondary had been so depleted that Lea didn't have the personnel to field a decent nickel package forget about a dime package. Freeman in fact has been blessed with a full cupboard. His struggles have nothing to do with personnel...especially considering the opponents we have faced. Lea, and even Bob freakin Diaco, for a time had to scheme to mitigate our personnel issues. Given what I have seen, I do not think Freeman has the capacity to scheme up our weaknesses, so he better recruit.

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                                                                • Originally posted by N_D_Fighting_Irish View Post

                                                                  Factually, your remark that "BUT, in the comparison, you have to remember Lea left Freeman with, not a lot." is demonstrably false. Our DL is competently two deep. LB core has depth to weather multiple injuries, and a secondary with enough numbers to play dime.

                                                                  For years, our defense has lacked depth. Typically, we had four-five solid DL starters and a decent drop in quality back ups. LB depth was non existent with a couple of starters as question marks. Secondary had been so depleted that Lea didn't have the personnel to field a decent nickel package forget about a dime package. Freeman in fact has been blessed with a full cupboard. His struggles have nothing to do with personnel...especially considering the opponents we have faced. Lea, and even Bob freakin Diaco, for a time had to scheme to mitigate our personnel issues. Given what I have seen, I do not think Freeman has the capacity to scheme up our weaknesses, so he better recruit.
                                                                  I think we have different threshold for the word factual. I was speaking to Lea’s recruiting as of said from post #1 and invite you to look up those recruiting rankings. The above is all just a weird spin on your opinion of the roster.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                    In today’s CFB if you want to beat the big boys you have to outscore them. Defense is secondary. Holding any team to under 30 points should result in a win most of the time. Look at Bama losing. If you want to beat Bama you just have to outscore them and have a few TOs because you are not going to stop them defensively. Saban said this himself. Same with OSU and Clemson. I’d say our offensive output is what’s holding us back. Any serviceable Dthat generates TOs will be sufficient to win in CFB.
                                                                    I don’t entirely agree. If you want to beat anybody you have to outscore them, but that doesn’t mean defense is a secondary phase of the game. The old adage of “offense brings the crowd but defense wins the game” may be a little dated maybe CFB has even flipped the adage in favor of offense but IMO it is still true that among two basically even matched teams, bet on the team with the better defense. A great defense will disrupt a great offense more than a great offense will run up the score on a great defense.
                                                                    The problem with the statement that “any serviceable d that generates TO’s is sufficient to win in CFB” is that it should also say, “if you have a decent O line, a first round talent at QB, and gamebreaking skill players, provided the other team also doesn’t have those same offensive attributes and if they do…go back to the team that plays better D will win.”
                                                                    Maybe it's far too soon to tell.

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                                                                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                      Did you watch the UC game? Didn’t see any personnel issues on UCs TE vs us? None? Don’t think a higher level of talent at Rover or S could have helped not have Bertrand covering in space?

                                                                      If you’re going to call out facts, look up the team talent roster on D on 247sports.
                                                                      In the second half Cincy was spreading the D out forcing Hamilton to play one on one close to the line, effectively removing him from the defense. Not sure what adjustment Freeman could do in that situation, but I didn't see any. I think Freeman's biggest shortcoming at the moment is making adjustments sooner.

                                                                      I'm not sure Lea left the cupboard bare for Freeman. In general, the D returned a lot of talent for this year. Lea's recruiting vs. Freeman's is another matter.
                                                                      Last edited by Irish#1; 10-11-2021, 06:54 AM.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                                        In the second half Cincy was spreading the D out forcing Hamilton to play one on one close to the line, effectively removing him from the defense. Not sure what adjustment Freeman could do in that situation, but I didn't see any. I think Freeman's biggest shortcoming at the moment is making adjustments sooner.

                                                                        I'm not sure Lea left the cupboard bare for Freeman. In general, the D returned a lot of talent for this year. Lea's recruiting vs. Freeman's is another matter.
                                                                        I saw the same thing.....Really the only adjustment with his scheme is to recruit studs that will allow us to not have to waste our elite guys like hamilton to do things like that. I'd love to have enough playmakers available that would let them scheme up a way for him to be a constant free hitter or safety playing the middle robbing and being a ball player. We just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's that allows him to do that.
                                                                        Love You JB 64.....RIP.....AI720....4EVER

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                                                                        • Originally posted by rtrn2glory View Post

                                                                          I saw the same thing.....Really the only adjustment with his scheme is to recruit studs that will allow us to not have to waste our elite guys like hamilton to do things like that. I'd love to have enough playmakers available that would let them scheme up a way for him to be a constant free hitter or safety playing the middle robbing and being a ball player. We just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's that allows him to do that.
                                                                          This what happens when they kept Lyght for to long and leaf Polian as the recruiting coordinator. We have no game changers other than Kyle back there.
                                                                          Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                          • Originally posted by rtrn2glory View Post

                                                                            I saw the same thing.....Really the only adjustment with his scheme is to recruit studs that will allow us to not have to waste our elite guys like hamilton to do things like that. I'd love to have enough playmakers available that would let them scheme up a way for him to be a constant free hitter or safety playing the middle robbing and being a ball player. We just don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's that allows him to do that.
                                                                            Yep. I think if you give Freeman 3 years, he is going to have dudes all over the field. His scheme will look totally different when his pieces are a better fit. It just looks like a lot of square peg round hole situations out there right now, and I don't think he necessarily has the answers.
                                                                            Formerly known as Kellyisit

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                                                                            • Originally posted by KellyIsIt View Post

                                                                              Yep. I think if you give Freeman 3 years, he is going to have dudes all over the field. His scheme will look totally different when his pieces are a better fit. It just looks like a lot of square peg round hole situations out there right now, and I don't think he necessarily has the answers.
                                                                              If they can't tackle is doesn't matter if the entire defense is 5 stars.
                                                                              Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                              • I think some people have also forgot about Marist and Moala being out. That was a lot of talent / pre-season "wasted" reps that required reshuffling bigly.

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                                                                                • FWIW PFF gives ND the 14th best tackling grade in the country and pretty sure it’s mainly just based off stuffs and missed tackle count. I can say from this Saturday’s watching there are a lot of teams that are way worse at tackling, mainly the entire Big 12 conference. Every miss just seems to result in minimum 20 yards when we do.

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                                                                                  • Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post

                                                                                    If they can't tackle is doesn't matter if the entire defense is 5 stars.
                                                                                    True but generally 5 stars tackle better than 3 stars. Also his team tackled fine last year.

                                                                                    With the exception of Hamilton, Cincinnati's entire secondary would start at ND. Their players are better. Maybe because Freeman coached them up, maybe because he identified elite high school talent. Most likely it's a combination of the two.
                                                                                    Formerly known as Kellyisit

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                                      FWIW PFF gives ND the 14th best tackling grade in the country and pretty sure it’s mainly just based off stuffs and missed tackle count. I can say from this Saturday’s watching there are a lot of teams that are way worse at tackling, mainly the entire Big 12 conference. Every miss just seems to result in minimum 20 yards when we do.
                                                                                      Pretty sure they hire OC's to be the DC's.

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                                                                                      • Set the edge!!!!!!!

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                                                                                        • What drove me crazy with the defense on Saturday was giving up the long QB runs. Especially the 19 yard TD run in the 4th qtr to a guy who injured his shoulder and couldn’t really throw. Why was there not a spy in that situation. That would seem like the perfect spot for Pryor to be in and mirror the QB. Pryor is faster than most of the safeties on the team.


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                                                                                          • Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post

                                                                                            This what happens when they kept Lyght for to long and leaf Polian as the recruiting coordinator. We have no game changers other than Kyle back there.
                                                                                            I checked it because I knew I had it but just wanted to flesh out the #s. The secondary has a BCR of 29%. The S room has zero depth but Griffith and Hamilton were obviously 2 of the blue chips. The CB room has all the depth but it’s young and almost all 3 star AND not heavily recruited from a playoff contender standpoint.

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post
                                                                                              Through 6 games we've given up an average of 23.3 points per game. Through 6 games last year we had given up 10.3 points.
                                                                                              To bring it back to the comparison of Freeman vs Lea defenses - this year's defense has given up 22 points per game and scored 2 touchdowns (so essentially a net of 19.66 ppg). ND's offense shouldn't get credit for the defense's two touchdowns and ND's defense shouldn't get dinged for the 2 pick sixes from Coan and Buchner.

                                                                                              Then you've got 6 ND turnovers that led to 30 points for the other team where the opponent is starting out on average at ND's 41 yard line - almost in FG position.

                                                                                              And then apart from the defensive TDs, ND has also scored 45 points off turnovers created by ND's defense that gave the offense an average starting position of the opponents 39 yard line.

                                                                                              So while ND's defense was better last year, I don't think a ppg comparison really captures the whole picture. Through 6 games last year ND's O had only turned the ball over 4 times and the defense had forced half the turnovers as this year's defense with zero defensive TDs.

                                                                                              Football Outsiders has a defensive FEI rank that basically sums up all this data (field position, turnovers, yards per play, opponent quality, etc) into a ranking. ND is 16th this year. ND finished 24th last year (almost certainly would have been top 5-10ish through 6 games last year before the 2 Clemson games and Bama). The biggest weakness this year for ND is yards per play - which is a direct result of big plays caused by poor tackling. Almost every big play we've had guys in position and just missed. Definite cause for concern, but if we can clean this up then we could be looking at an elite defense. It's also worth wondering how the defense does if it has Liufau, Moala, Simon, Hinish vs. Wiscy/Cincy, or Bothelo on the depth chart as well.

                                                                                              When BK talks about needing a defense that sets up the offense and creates big plays, this is what he's talking about. To me the offense is almost entirely the problem this year. To be completely candid, I think it's worth wondering if the team is 5-1 this year with last year's defense. I don't think last year's defense is changing the outcome of the 10 points Cincy scored when given the ball at the 8 and the 17 respectively. And I don't think last year's defense scores 2 TDs and sets up the offense for 17 more points with short fields against Wisconsin. I do think the FSU, Toledo, and VT games would not have been as close though. So it's a give and take.

                                                                                              The one area I would like to see Freeman improve on is in game adjustments, as many have noted here. I loved the way Lea's defenses were able to really lock it down in the second half and adjust to take away what was working for the other team. We haven't shown as much of that ability so far this year.

                                                                                              But overall I don't think the outlook should be anything but cautiously optimistic for this defense.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by General Colon Bowel View Post

                                                                                                To bring it back to the comparison of Freeman vs Lea defenses - this year's defense has given up 22 points per game and scored 2 touchdowns (so essentially a net of 19.66 ppg). ND's offense shouldn't get credit for the defense's two touchdowns and ND's defense shouldn't get dinged for the 2 pick sixes from Coan and Buchner.

                                                                                                Then you've got 6 ND turnovers that led to 30 points for the other team where the opponent is starting out on average at ND's 41 yard line - almost in FG position.

                                                                                                And then apart from the defensive TDs, ND has also scored 45 points off turnovers created by ND's defense that gave the offense an average starting position of the opponents 39 yard line.

                                                                                                So while ND's defense was better last year, I don't think a ppg comparison really captures the whole picture. Through 6 games last year ND's O had only turned the ball over 4 times and the defense had forced half the turnovers as this year's defense with zero defensive TDs.

                                                                                                Football Outsiders has a defensive FEI rank that basically sums up all this data (field position, turnovers, yards per play, opponent quality, etc) into a ranking. ND is 16th this year. ND finished 24th last year (almost certainly would have been top 5-10ish through 6 games last year before the 2 Clemson games and Bama). The biggest weakness this year for ND is yards per play - which is a direct result of big plays caused by poor tackling. Almost every big play we've had guys in position and just missed. Definite cause for concern, but if we can clean this up then we could be looking at an elite defense. It's also worth wondering how the defense does if it has Liufau, Moala, Simon, Hinish vs. Wiscy/Cincy, or Bothelo on the depth chart as well.

                                                                                                When BK talks about needing a defense that sets up the offense and creates big plays, this is what he's talking about. To me the offense is almost entirely the problem this year. To be completely candid, I think it's worth wondering if the team is 5-1 this year with last year's defense. I don't think last year's defense is changing the outcome of the 10 points Cincy scored when given the ball at the 8 and the 17 respectively. And I don't think last year's defense scores 2 TDs and sets up the offense for 17 more points with short fields against Wisconsin. I do think the FSU, Toledo, and VT games would not have been as close though. So it's a give and take.

                                                                                                The one area I would like to see Freeman improve on is in game adjustments, as many have noted here. I loved the way Lea's defenses were able to really lock it down in the second half and adjust to take away what was working for the other team. We haven't shown as much of that ability so far this year.

                                                                                                But overall I don't think the outlook should be anything but cautiously optimistic for this defense.
                                                                                                Great post. Agree that if the O is performing better everyone feels a little better than they do now. Overall, I think most feel pretty good about where the defense is heading, but it's the big plays that give teams momentum and keep them in the game which is the concern because the O isn't putting up the points. Lea's D is probably better suited for this years team.

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                                                                                                • Solid stuff above. SP+ has us as 13th on D as well and that’s with a defending rushing explosiveness rank of like bottom 20. On O our stuff rate against of like bottom 10 (offensive stat but just highlight overall negative extreme). We just have a lot of numbers on the extremes
                                                                                                  Last edited by Dale; 10-11-2021, 01:14 PM.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by General Colon Bowel View Post

                                                                                                    To bring it back to the comparison of Freeman vs Lea defenses - this year's defense has given up 22 points per game and scored 2 touchdowns (so essentially a net of 19.66 ppg). ND's offense shouldn't get credit for the defense's two touchdowns and ND's defense shouldn't get dinged for the 2 pick sixes from Coan and Buchner....
                                                                                                    This post,.. coming from a poster named General Colon Bowel... made my lunch hour... lol
                                                                                                    There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

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                                                                                                    • Does anyone have the #s regarding time on the field or snaps for the defense vs. last year? While I agree this defense will, by its very nature, give up more opportunities, it also stands to reason that this year's defense has been asked to bail the O out more than last year. They have essentially been setup for failure by the numerous 3-and-outs and stalled drives, IMO.

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