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  • Clemson Postgame...

    Sorry kmoose, I'm blitzing....

    1. Weird game. Don't know what to take from it, on one hand we turned it over and got beat on the road...on the other, I thought we dominated the entire second half in a hostile environment.

    2. We win that game 7/10 in normal conditions.

    3. Hey bogs, I'm continually impressed with Kizers poise. He's not perfect but damn he's a gamer.

    4. Overall great job by the defense.

    5. BK decision to go for two, didn't like it then, especially don't like it now. I can't blame the loss entire on that but it's tough to swallow.

    6. Let's win out!

  • #2
    Post Game Observations (Clemson '15)...

    1. This game was lost in the first half, and it was lost in the trenches. Give Clemson credit; their O and D lines won the battle for most of the game.

    2. Terrible, Terrible tackling all game long. I noticed it mostly in the secondary, but it was all over the D. One bad tackle led directly to a Clemson touchdown. Shumate threw a shoulder into the ball carrier, on the second touchdown, instead of wrapping him up. All he managed to do was knock the guy loose of the other defender's hands, and then bounce off, giving the guy a clean route into the end zone.

    3. Let's talk about coaching. There was NO quit in this team, despite plenty of opportunity for it. The coaches have this team mentally tough, and that's a marked improvement from the Weis years. A couple of calls were head scratchers, but most of those would have worked out, if the players would have executed.

    4. We learned that DeShone Kizer is NOT a complete quarterback. And that's not a knock on him because he shouldn't be. He is a second year guy in only his third start. But he missed a lot of open check down receivers before he finally started throwing that way late in the game. He also looked like he made some pretty bad decisions, re: whether to run or throw it away, a few times. But his future looks good, as long as he continues to learn from his mistakes. I anticipate that he will.

    5. The drops were bad. It wasn't the number of them, it was when they came. It always seemed to be on a 3rd down, or going into the end zone. The turnovers were a killer, as well.

    6. Our O Line is very good, but not infallible. I know that Clemson kept sending the house early in the game; but they were in the backfield all night long, even when they only rushed 3 guys. We still have a good unit. They just had a bad night tonight.

    7. This was a team loss. No unit played exceptionally well. The D Line got handled for most of the game; the linebackers didn't make many big plays, and the secondary looked really bad. As a unit, the Defense pulled it together in the 4th Q, but it was too little too late at that point. On offense, the line looked really bad for a good part of the game; the WRs dropped WAY too many passes; and the RBs looked rather pedestrian for much of the game.

    8. The way this team battled back and made it very close just might be the difference, come playoff selection time. People will remember that ND battled in terrible weather, and that they fell just short of one of the greatest comebacks of the season. But the team still has to pull up their bootstraps, and win many more games.

    Just a heartbreaking loss. I really feel bad for the team. They put a lot of effort into this.

    Comment


    • #3
      Simple analysis, special teams hurt the defense, drops killed drives, fumbles lost the game. Maybe bks 2 pt call is questionable? We wouldn't need it if the previous stuff didn't happen.

      Comment


      • #4
        I know we always look at games from the standpoint of evaluating what ND did, but I don't think we can say much about the team based on this one... too many mistakes, and the yards we did gain Clemson basically gave us.

        Comment


        • #5
          Loved the way the team didn't quit. With a turnover margin that bad and to still be in it was pretty surprising. Kizer is one cool customer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Win out and see where we are.

            Comment


            • #7
              That's a team with a backup QB and RB and TE and starting Nose and Nickle? Great fight kids! Tough game, but you earned my respect! Clean up the damn turnovers though. You beat yourselves. Great win for Clemson. They won in the trenches.
              Last edited by yankeeND; 10-03-2015, 11:30 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                1. This game was lost in the first half, and it was lost in the trenches. Give Clemson credit; their O and D lines won the battle for most of the game.

                2. Terrible, Terrible tackling all game long. I noticed it mostly in the secondary, but it was all over the D. One bad tackle led directly to a Clemson touchdown. Shumate threw a shoulder into the ball carrier, on the first touchdown, instead of wrapping him up. All he managed to do was knock the guy loose of the other defender's hands, and then bounce off, giving the guy a clean route into the end zone.

                3. Let's talk about coaching. There was NO quit in this team, despite plenty of opportunity for it. The coaches have this team mentally tough, and that's a marked improvement from the Weis years. A couple of calls were head scratchers, but most of those would have worked out, if the players would have executed.

                4. We learned that DeShone Kizer is NOT a complete quarterback. And that's not a knock on him because he shouldn't be. He is a second year guy in only his third start. But he missed a lot of open check down receivers before he finally started throwing that way late in the game. He also looked like he made some pretty bad decisions, re: whether to run or throw it away, a few times. But his future looks good, as long as he continues to learn from his mistakes. I anticipate that he will.

                5. The drops were bad. It wasn't the number of them, it was when they came. It always seemed to be on a 3rd down, or going into the end zone. The turnovers were a killer, as well.

                6. Our O Line is very good, but not infallible. I know that Clemson kept sending the house early in the game; but they were in the backfield all night long, even when they only rushed 3 guys. We still have a good unit. They just had a bad night tonight.

                7. This was a team loss. No unit played exceptionally well. The D Line got handled for most of the game; the linebackers didn't make many big plays, and the secondary looked really bad. As a unit, the Defense pulled it together in the 4th Q, but it was too little too late at that point. On offense, the line looked really bad for a good part of the game; the WRs dropped WAY too many passes; and the RBs looked rather pedestrian for much of the game.

                8. The way this team battled back and made it very close just might be the difference, come playoff selection time. People will remember that ND battled in terrible weather, and that they fell just short of one of the greatest comebacks of the season. But the team still has to pull up their bootstraps, and win many more games.

                Just a heartbreaking loss. I really feel bad for the team. They put a lot of effort into this.
                My one beef with the coaching is that we didn't show up ready to play at 15:00 in the first quarter. You're not going to win many football games if you don't wake up until halfway through the third. You can get away with it against UMass but not against Clemson.

                Comment


                • #9
                  - Kizer made some poor throws but I'm walking away incredibly impressed with him tonight. Kid has poise, and he's a gamer. He's got a rocket for an arm and he's gaining valuable experience... it doesn't help us now, but this experience will be invaluable later on. Zaire is not guaranteed his position back next season. Not by a long shot. Kizer has poise; he has things he needs to work on (stop staring down your receivers, dude), but he has a ton of upside.

                  - The pass blocking was good.

                  - The run blocking was as bad as I've ever seen. Embarrassing performance. I don't know what else to day.

                  - The receivers really let Kizer down tonight. Robinson's drop before the half proved crucial. Brown's fumble was brutal. Jones had a really big drop. Wet ball be damned, it was a pitiful performance from our pass-catchers.

                  - The defense was hit or miss. Some nice series, some brutal series.

                  - Kelly made a stupid decision when he decided to go for two initially. I'm sure if he could do it over he'd have kicked the extra point, but whatever. Too late now.

                  - The QB run call on the 2 point conversion was... stupid. Our run blocking was trash all night and Kizer was in the zone. Call some sort of zone read with a pass option. A designed QB run for a kid who is better with his arms than with his legs? FFS, man.

                  - Impressive job by the Irish battling back but I hate moral victories. This loss stings. Badly. It pretty much ruined our playoff chances. We still have a small shot in the unlikely even we win out (and get help) but damn... this one stings.

                  - The team folded after the FSU game last year. I'm judging Kelly based on how the team performs after losing this heartbreaker. Anything less than 10 wins will be a disappointment in my book. Anything less than 9 is flat-out unacceptable.
                  Last edited by IrishHokie22; 10-03-2015, 11:03 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My observations:

                    1. 4 Turnovers. Regardless of conditions, can't have it.

                    2. Corey Robinson may have seen his last meaningful minutes this season. He has had limited targets and when he does, most are drops.

                    3. Coaching was horrible. You have to take what they give you. I apologize that I don't recall the poster this week, but said the middle of the field would be open for the TE all day. IT WAS! Coaches were just too stubborn to take it. Clemson was bringing 7 to 8 men on 1st down all night and we continued t run until we were done 3 scores.

                    4. That 2 point conversion call is something I expect from Joe Paterno....Not Brian Kelly. Weak....Just weak.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We played like utter shit for three quarters and still should have won the game. Clemson trying to protect the lead certainly played into it, but we finally woke up. We dug ourselves far too big a hole in the first ten minutes to overcome with all the errors. I'm upset we lost, but it's not an indictment of our team.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                        My one beef with the coaching is that we didn't show up ready to play at 15:00 in the first quarter. You're not going to win many football games if you don't wake up until halfway through the third. You can get away with it against UMass but not against Clemson.
                        I generally agree, but that's also part of playing on the road against a good team at night. That place was on fire.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IrishJayhawk View Post
                          I generally agree, but that's also part of playing on the road against a good team at night. That place was on fire.
                          I feel like it should be EASIER to get up for those games. We weren't jacked up and whiffing, it was like we were sleepy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We outgained them by 140 yards and should have won. But 4 turnovers, 6-7 dropped passes, several bad playcalls, terrible penalties, and a few poor tackles later and... loss.

                            That one series in the second quarter was the most pathetic thing I have ever seen. Delay of game, followed by a false start, followed by ANOTHER delay of game, followed by a Fuller drop on a wide open pass for a first down two plays later on 3rd and 17. Brutal.

                            We're honestly good enough to win out. Will we? Only time will tell.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Need more killer instinct, need more toughness, etc. etc.

                              Becoming super old waiting for it...

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                My one beef with the coaching is that we didn't show up ready to play at 15:00 in the first quarter. You're not going to win many football games if you don't wake up until halfway through the third. You can get away with it against UMass but not against Clemson.
                                WTF does that mean? You think it's a coaching issue that we tried to run the ball to start the game, behind one of the best offensive lines in CFB, with a back who is averaging 150 yards per game?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                  I feel like it should be EASIER to get up for those games. We weren't jacked up and whiffing, it was like we were sleepy.
                                  We weren't sleepy. They were jacked.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It's clear that the game plan all week was "we're going to run the ball, because we're good at running the ball, and conditions are going to suck." That failed miserably.

                                    Then the coaches changed the plan to "fuck it, air raid!" and somehow that was super effective in a goddamn monsoon with a young QB who is still a bit erratic with his throws and doesn't do a great job of getting the ball out quick or going through progressions.

                                    DeShone Kizer went "gamer" as soon as they gave him the opportunity to, and were it not for a bad 2 point decision we'd be in OT. Without turnovers... we win handily.

                                    The defensive game plan was actually very good. The execution was mediocre, outside of their first drive 100% of their offense was "Notre Dame misses a tackle, the play goes for big yards or a TD." They couldn't do anything unless we made a mistake. Coverage was really decent all night against very good receivers.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Riddickulous View Post
                                      We outgained them by 140 yards and should have won. But 4 turnovers, 6-7 dropped passes, several bad playcalls, terrible penalties, and a few poor tackles later and... loss.

                                      That one series in the second quarter was the most pathetic thing I have ever seen. Delay of game, followed by a false start, followed by ANOTHER delay of game, followed by a Fuller drop on a wide open pass for a first down two plays later on 3rd and 17. Brutal.

                                      We're honestly good enough to win out. Will we? Only time will tell.
                                      I think they yardage is misleading because Clemson went into a shell. They basically did nothing more risky than counter right the entire 4th quarter. We made so many mistakes in this one it's tough to evaluate the two teams..

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by IrishJayhawk View Post
                                        I generally agree, but that's also part of playing on the road against a good team at night. That place was on fire.
                                        This. Playing in those conditions vs that crowd and a uber talented Clemson team? It's tough to ask a group on 19-21 year olds to be perfect. They fought back and probably should've won the game. I'm proud of the squad

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          I have never complained about a play call in the Kelly era, but whoever out of the three play callers thought that last one was a good idea was out of his mind. They could not run effectively all night, and they have some of the best short yardage rub packages in the game. Couldn't not believe it when I saw Kizer tuck the ball and run. Sadly, Clemson is not very good and won't go unbeaten, even though we desperately need them to. Notre Dame would win by three to four scores if they played normally.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by IrishJayhawk View Post
                                            We weren't sleepy. They were jacked.
                                            How many big games are we not going to show up for and then make excuses why we didn't?
                                            GO IRISH!!!

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Games like this make me proud to be an Irish fan.

                                              Never give up, never surrender.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                It's clear that the game plan all week was "we're going to run the ball, because we're good at running the ball, and conditions are going to suck." That failed miserably.

                                                Then the coaches changed the plan to "fuck it, air raid!" and somehow that was super effective in a goddamn monsoon with a young QB who is still a bit erratic with his throws and doesn't do a great job of getting the ball out quick or going through progressions.

                                                DeShone Kizer went "gamer" as soon as they gave him the opportunity to, and were it not for a bad 2 point decision we'd be in OT. Without turnovers... we win handily.

                                                The defensive game plan was actually very good. The execution was mediocre, outside of their first drive 100% of their offense was "Notre Dame misses a tackle, the play goes for big yards or a TD." They couldn't do anything unless we made a mistake. Coverage was really decent all night against very good receivers.
                                                Yeah. I pretty much agree with this post.

                                                I'm actually a bit stunned that Kizer was as poised as he was in the 4th. Pretty impressive.

                                                If only Chris Brown was as poised.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by bkess8 View Post
                                                  How many big games are we not going to show up for and then make excuses why we didn't?
                                                  You think we didn't show up?

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26
                                                    Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                    It's clear that the game plan all week was "we're going to run the ball, because we're good at running the ball, and conditions are going to suck." That failed miserably.

                                                    Then the coaches changed the plan to "fuck it, air raid!" and somehow that was super effective in a goddamn monsoon with a young QB who is still a bit erratic with his throws and doesn't do a great job of getting the ball out quick or going through progressions.

                                                    DeShone Kizer went "gamer" as soon as they gave him the opportunity to, and were it not for a bad 2 point decision we'd be in OT. Without turnovers... we win handily.

                                                    The defensive game plan was actually very good. The execution was mediocre, outside of their first drive 100% of their offense was "Notre Dame misses a tackle, the play goes for big yards or a TD." They couldn't do anything unless we made a mistake. Coverage was really decent all night against very good receivers.
                                                    I think your first two paragraphs are the crux of it. I think it takes this staff too long to diagnose what is and isn't working. We've seen "run the damn ball" games when we should be pounding it but don't, but then in this game the running was clearly ineffective and we stayed with it for too long.

                                                    I also hate our VERSION of the running game. We run out of Big 12 passing formations and it isn't the most effective way to do it.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #27
                                                      Originally posted by GoldenChild View Post
                                                      This. Playing in those conditions vs that crowd and a uber talented Clemson team? It's tough to ask a group on 19-21 year olds to be perfect. They fought back and probably should've won the game. I'm proud of the squad
                                                      Alabama didn't have a hard time getting up fort heir game today AT Georgia!
                                                      GO IRISH!!!

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        My only beef with the play calling is it seemed to take too long to adjust to what they were doing in the first half. Would have liked to see some play action passes on first down. We seemed to try to force the inside run too much but of course pounding the ball is what many of us have asked for.
                                                        "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Originally posted by IrishinSyria View Post
                                                          I think they yardage is misleading because Clemson went into a shell. They basically did nothing more risky than counter right the entire 4th quarter. We made so many mistakes in this one it's tough to evaluate the two teams..
                                                          Yeah, if they lose that game their fans would have gone nuts for playing not to lose.
                                                          "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Normal non monsoon conditions we win that game by 14. With Zaire more. The fact that we were in it at the very end is amazing considering 4 second half turnovers when trailing at half time. Kinda reminded me of Bama vs Ole Miss last week with all the mistakes by the better team. Clemson isn't that good but their schedule the rest of the year is pretty easy outside of FSU, and they play FSU at home.

                                                            Think this is the best team Kelly has had, with or without Zaire. Think we are the better team in every game remaining this season, but i will be fairly ok i guess with a 10-2 season with a RS Freshman QB
                                                            Last edited by NDPhilly; 10-03-2015, 11:14 PM.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Kelly called a two-point conversion when the refs gave him a second chance to rethink it...

                                                              That's all there is to it. Kizer and gang took it to the end, and when it mattered most, they were hung out to dry.

                                                              Never seen two worse calls in two crucial positions. I'm drunk, I'm stunned, and when I'm sober I'll still be stunned.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #32
                                                                Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                were it not for a bad 2 point decision we'd be in OT.
                                                                huh?

                                                                I'd say the decision was just fine, considering the play was very open. The execution sucked @ss, however...

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #33
                                                                  Originally posted by bkess8 View Post
                                                                  How many big games are we not going to show up for and then make excuses why we didn't?
                                                                  We lost by two in one of the best home fields in the sport with a freshmen QB, 6 starters out, and in awful conditions. Explicate your definition of "showing up" please.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Originally posted by IrishJayhawk View Post
                                                                    You think we didn't show up?
                                                                    Not for the first quarter we didn't!
                                                                    GO IRISH!!!

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • #35
                                                                      Originally posted by theclassickiller View Post
                                                                      Kelly called a two-point conversion when the refs gave him a second chance to rethink it...

                                                                      That's all there is to it. Kizer and gang took it to the end, and when it mattered most, they were hung out to dry.

                                                                      Never seen two worse calls in two crucial positions. I'm drunk, I'm stunned, and when I'm sober I'll still be stunned.
                                                                      It was the right call. Every points chart out there will say the same thing.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Originally posted by bkess8 View Post
                                                                        How many big games are we not going to show up for and then make excuses why we didn't?
                                                                        I disagree, Kelly has almost always had the players ready for big games (Bama 2012, USC last year are the exceptions). I remember all the blowouts we had against good teams before he got here. I worry more about the mid-level games.
                                                                        "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                          It was the right call. Every points chart out there will say the same thing.
                                                                          Disagree, at least from my knowledge of the charts. I'm pretty sure when in comeback mode and counting scores in that situation you take the point.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Originally posted by GoldenChild View Post
                                                                            We lost by two in one of the best home fields in the sport with a freshmen QB, 6 starters out, and in awful conditions. Explicate your definition of "showing up" please.
                                                                            Coming out and getting smacked in the face by a mediocre offense on the first Drive of the game. We were sluggish and didn't seem ready to play.
                                                                            GO IRISH!!!

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • #39
                                                                              I feel horrible for Chris Brown though. Played a good game, but another crucial fumble. Still love the kid.


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                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • #40
                                                                                I don't mind the 2 pt call. In fact, if he walks in like last week, it would have been genius. Lack of execution and Clemson identified run really quick, which is shocking considering every play the 4th qtr was a pass.

                                                                                The only thing that I could even question is the 2pt after the Procise TD. It was a well drawn play, CRob just couldn't come down with it.

                                                                                Overall, not too upset with the loss, and super proud of how the team fought back from what should have been a disaster. 4 TO's, tough weather, it's a bummer but that's football.

                                                                                I love being a ND fan and the heart they showed tonight is exactly why! BK has faults, we all do, but I still trust him more than any coach out there! It's not over yet and CFB season has a lot left to be played out. USC is gonna hurt us offensively, but if we can start fast, we can win in a shootout.

                                                                                Sleep it off fellas, kiss your kids goodnight and remember, this sun will be up in the morning!

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • #41
                                                                                  Think we can finally agree Chris Brown >>>>> Corey Robinson

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                                    Disagree, at least from my knowledge of the charts. I'm pretty sure when in comeback mode and counting scores in that situation you take the point.
                                                                                    Correct, you never go for two until forced.... That's the typical chart I've carried/seen.
                                                                                    There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by bkess8 View Post
                                                                                      Alabama didn't have a hard time getting up fort heir game today AT Georgia!
                                                                                      Alabama wasn't playing in a monsoon with a freshmen QB. I don't completely disagree that we didn't show up in the first quarter, we didn't and that's clear to anyone who watched, but how many teams storm back like we did with a chance to win with 7 seconds left? I'm obviously disappointed but I can't be mad. Let's just hope a few teams lose in the coming weeks and we can run the table.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                                                                        Think we can finally agree Chris Brown >>>>> Corey Robinson

                                                                                        Yes. But Hunter Jr needs more reps


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                                                                                        • #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                                                                          Think we can finally agree Chris Brown >>>>> Corey Robinson
                                                                                          Yes we can, CB came to play tonight and it was just tough luck on his fumble.
                                                                                          GO IRISH!!!

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by NDRock View Post
                                                                                            My only beef with the play calling is it seemed to take too long to adjust to what they were doing in the first half. Would have liked to see some play action passes on first down. We seemed to try to force the inside run too much but of course pounding the ball is what many of us have asked for.
                                                                                            Doesn't it seem weird to see Kelly on the sideline in his 5th season motioning for the QB to hurry? We saw that in year 1, 2, 3, 4, and now 5. It's become evident that the QB isn't the issue.

                                                                                            Don't get my wrong... I love Brian Kelly. But coaching faux pas have become too common, and at some point the coach can't blame the players any more... It's getting embarrassing. I'll take this any day over what we've had previously... but get your act together Kelly. A coach wins championships as much as the players do.

                                                                                            And I can guarantee that Meyer or Saban would will a championship with our talent.

                                                                                            Don't kid yourselves guys.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                                                                              Think we can finally agree Chris Brown >>>>> Corey Robinson
                                                                                              THIS x1000. Torii Hunter Jr too tbh.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • #48
                                                                                                2 point conversion.

                                                                                                Only had 10 on the field
                                                                                                Call timeout to get Robinson on the field
                                                                                                Robinson drop.

                                                                                                I mean...
                                                                                                "I'm not a film evaluator"
                                                                                                - Kuejnhja 6-1-14

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by bkess8 View Post
                                                                                                  Alabama didn't have a hard time getting up fort heir game today AT Georgia!

                                                                                                  Alabama had a hard time getting up at home for Ole Miss.


                                                                                                  Sent via tapatalk

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                                                                                                  • #50
                                                                                                    I have really grown to like Kizer. His poise is amazing and the way he sees the pocket is amazing, given his experience.

                                                                                                    Missed tackles, starting slow, dropped balls, and not adapting to the loaded box screwed this team.

                                                                                                    4 turnovers never works well.

                                                                                                    #88 didn't have his head in the game and should see much less of future games.

                                                                                                    Defense needed one more big turnover and we never got it.
                                                                                                    Running the damn ball since 2017.

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