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  • The Hiestand thing definitely happened. The II guys confirmed it and they don't confirm things if they aren't sure. Also it wasn't just in the offseason. They were meeting in-season too. However, no one really knows the extent of it.

    Most likely, it was just that those guys loved Hiestand, and he made them very good players. So they wanted to spend time with him. Kelly probably knew about it, so no big deal.

    But. It is possible Kelly didn't know about it, and they sought out help because they did not understand/respect/agree with what Quinn was teaching. Which would certainly reflect poorly on Quinn's coaching.

    Who knows. I think everyone is just searching for answers because the drop off on the O line this year is kind of extraordinary. Injuries are an issue obviously, but still. There are literally no linemen playing well. Madden was an All-American at Marshall and looks awful. There are missed assignments leading to run throughs, guys just getting blown into the backfield multiple times a game, etc. Just a hapless group out there.

    Formerly known as Kellyisit

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    • Prister wrote that he thinks the biggest issue with the line is confidence.

      Comment


      • I think the Hiestand thing is getting way overblown without us knowing the actual convos.

        Having like a planned dinner with some of the guys and Hiestand where they talk football is 100% what I would expect. They are not only athletes but ND students and should be seeking out any knowledge they can get.

        Going to Hiestand to ask what he thinks of Pitt this week and blocking scheme specific would be worrisome.

        Asking Hiestand for pointers over the offseason again same as scenario A.

        Tuning out Quinn in favor of what Hiestand says is worrisome.

        There is a 100% reasonable, not alarming possibilities here and some that 100% would be really bad. Taking a side on what it was without someone credible vouching for that side I wouldn’t be comfortable with

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        • Honest question, how crazy is it for OLmen to seek out private coaching during the Summer? Quarterbacks have been doing it for years. I do think it’s a bad look if it was the former OL coach at the school (Hiestand) and done on the down low. I’m assuming players can’t be working with their position coaches at the school during the off season. Are all positions moving towards the QB model? Do WRs look for specific coaches during the off-season?
          It goes beyond that though. From what we're hearing they were also getting instruction during the season, which would point to a lack of coaching on Quinn's part.

          Comment


          • There are time limits on player/coach contact outside of the season.

            Well, there are in-season limits too, I guess.

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            • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
              Prister wrote that he thinks the biggest issue with the line is confidence.
              That may be true. I personally have no confidence in the line either.
              "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

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              • Originally posted by NDRock View Post

                That may be true. I personally have no confidence in the line either.
                Well done.

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                • Originally posted by NDRock View Post
                  Honest question, how crazy is it for OLmen to seek out private coaching during the Summer? Quarterbacks have been doing it for years. I do think it’s a bad look if it was the former OL coach at the school (Hiestand) and done on the down low. I’m assuming players can’t be working with their position coaches at the school during the off season. Are all positions moving towards the QB model? Do WRs look for specific coaches during the off-season?
                  it's not crazy, but it being facilitated by Chris Watt is a huge red flag for me. Most players get in extra work with specialists in the offseason, but most players are not being directed to their former coach by their current GA.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                    I just really don't understand the Rees hate. The offense improved mightily when he replaced Long, and I just don't see a bunch of scheme issues. I see personnel issues, and yeah... QB is a part of that... but for certain it isn't the biggest part.

                    I do understand the Quinn hate.
                    I can only speak for myself but I think it's the overall inconsistency of the operation. Whether that is week to week production, production of various positions groups, development of the QB position, and/or overall QB recruiting. Which leads me to believe he's probably just having a hard time managing it all. He's a young coach that's not only calling plays but has to managed an entire room of coaches who all have vastly more experience than him. I think some of the dysfunction probably stems from that. How often is Tommy vetoing decisions? How often is he applying pressure to other position coaches whether that is in recruiting or positional coaching? I don't hate Tommy and I was a fan of the hire. But, I think it just might be a little too much for him at this time, at this place.

                    Last year I think is a good example. He had in a very good cast of OL, QB, and RB's. They chose to structure the offense the way that they did. And, they finished #17 in OFEI. That's not bad, pretty good, but it's also not elite. In fact, I would bet they thought they underperformed. Sounds like some of Book's NFL statements say as much. The QB that he coached for 3 years never got better at the issues that plagued him over the course of those 3 years. In fact, at times, 2020 Ian Book looked as lost as ever in the pocket. Because of it, they were never able to develop what would take them to the next level. I believe Tommy should share in a lot of that criticism. I think folks tend to forget that none of Ian's important numbers got better from 2018 to 2020. The really bottomed out in 2019 and then improved in 2020 but stayed below 2018 levels. He still had worse comp pct., yds/att., and QBR in 2020 than he did in 2018. He also had less yds/game in 2020 than he did in 2018. The only stats that are really better were in 2019 he averaged more passing td's/game and he threw less interceptions in both years. For those that will say it was by design, I'm not disputing that. But, that design was his choice and had it's shortcomings. Those shortcoming were pretty glaring for Book. And, it calls into question why couldn't Rees develop a QB and offense that could do both. Is that a lot to ask? Yes. Should it be a requirement for the offense at ND? Yes, it should.

                    Fast forward to today and they felt they had to get Coan. That's largely due to his job recruiting the position or lack thereof. They felt they had to structure an offense a certain way for him and this team. And, so far, those results (sans one game) are pretty fricking bad. My feelings are, Tommy isn't just a play caller. He should be overseeing everything that goes on with the offense. He's watched Lugg play for multiple years. He should've played a role in evaluating Patterson at C versus other positions. Correll at LG. And bringing in Madden. Those are things I would think most OC's would be very involved in since they are very fundamental in running whatever offense he plans to run. Besides Madden, all of these guys have been here for awhile. Rees should know what he has or have plans to do something else.

                    The 2022 QB recruiting cycle continues to look like the debacle we've illustrated before. Not only did Tommy stumble and bumble around for months during Covid not getting anything accomplished but it sounds like we're finally getting a somewhat public mea culpa on this. They want 2 QB's. I love the decision let me make that very clear. But, similarly to the decision to play Pyne in the 2nd half against Cincy (also love that decision), it should have came sooner. Being behind or late has it's consequences. We know what they were for last Saturday. And, we'll probably eventually find out what the cost will be for QB recruiting. Either Tommy isn't evaluating this stuff, fast enough, in real time. Therefore others are having to force his hand, which would be a problem. Or, Tommy doesn't have enough say in the decision making, which is also a problem. Either way, there is enough here to say the entire operation isn't running like an offense that expects to compete for the playoffs, and win, perennially.

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                    • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                      I can only speak for myself but I think it's the overall inconsistency of the operation. Whether that is week to week production, production of various positions groups, development of the QB position, and/or overall QB recruiting. Which leads me to believe he's probably just having a hard time managing it all. He's a young coach that's not only calling plays but has to managed an entire room of coaches who all have vastly more experience than him. I think some of the dysfunction probably stems from that. How often is Tommy vetoing decisions? How often is he applying pressure to other position coaches whether that is in recruiting or positional coaching? I don't hate Tommy and I was a fan of the hire. But, I think it just might be a little too much for him at this time, at this place.

                      Last year I think is a good example. He had in a very good cast of OL, QB, and RB's. They chose to structure the offense the way that they did. And, they finished #17 in OFEI. That's not bad, pretty good, but it's also not elite. In fact, I would bet they thought they underperformed. Sounds like some of Book's NFL statements say as much. The QB that he coached for 3 years never got better at the issues that plagued him over the course of those 3 years. In fact, at times, 2020 Ian Book looked as lost as ever in the pocket. Because of it, they were never able to develop what would take them to the next level. I believe Tommy should share in a lot of that criticism. I think folks tend to forget that none of Ian's important numbers got better from 2018 to 2020. The really bottomed out in 2019 and then improved in 2020 but stayed below 2018 levels. He still had worse comp pct., yds/att., and QBR in 2020 than he did in 2018. He also had less yds/game in 2020 than he did in 2018. The only stats that are really better were in 2019 he averaged more passing td's/game and he threw less interceptions in both years. For those that will say it was by design, I'm not disputing that. But, that design was his choice and had it's shortcomings. Those shortcoming were pretty glaring for Book. And, it calls into question why couldn't Rees develop a QB and offense that could do both. Is that a lot to ask? Yes. Should it be a requirement for the offense at ND? Yes, it should.

                      Fast forward to today and they felt they had to get Coan. That's largely due to his job recruiting the position or lack thereof. They felt they had to structure an offense a certain way for him and this team. And, so far, those results (sans one game) are pretty fricking bad. My feelings are, Tommy isn't just a play caller. He should be overseeing everything that goes on with the offense. He's watched Lugg play for multiple years. He should've played a role in evaluating Patterson at C versus other positions. Correll at LG. And bringing in Madden. Those are things I would think most OC's would be very involved in since they are very fundamental in running whatever offense he plans to run. Besides Madden, all of these guys have been here for awhile. Rees should know what he has or have plans to do something else.

                      The 2022 QB recruiting cycle continues to look like the debacle we've illustrated before. Not only did Tommy stumble and bumble around for months during Covid not getting anything accomplished but it sounds like we're finally getting a somewhat public mea culpa on this. They want 2 QB's. I love the decision let me make that very clear. But, similarly to the decision to play Pyne in the 2nd half against Cincy (also love that decision), it should have came sooner. Being behind or late has it's consequences. We know what they were for last Saturday. And, we'll probably eventually find out what the cost will be for QB recruiting. Either Tommy isn't evaluating this stuff, fast enough, in real time. Therefore others are having to force his hand, which would be a problem. Or, Tommy doesn't have enough say in the decision making, which is also a problem. Either way, there is enough here to say the entire operation isn't running like an offense that expects to compete for the playoffs, and win, perennially.
                      Ian Book was also a three star athlete that some would say played above what pundits thought he could do. It's certainly not uncommon for a Kelly QB to start out strong and fail to improve...hell, many regress as time goes on. That's been pretty true for all QB coaches under Kelly at ND, how many have gotten consistently better each year?

                      Stumble and bumble for months during Covid? For quite a bit there in 2020 many conferences were stumbling and bumbling as they waffled on whether we'd even have a football season. Rees didn't get the benefit of Spring ball his first year as OC. This comment makes no sense to me. 17th is certainly nothing to sneeze at, especially when your starting WRs are a glorified blocking TE, a Northwestern transfer, and a converted QB. Our best receivers for much of the season were Mayer and Kyren.

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                      • Lance Taylor is the run game coordinator so pinning the OL on Quinn and then moving to Rees is not fair. Lance should be having as much if not more contact with the OL

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                        • Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

                          Ian Book was also a three star athlete that some would say played above what pundits thought he could do. It's certainly not uncommon for a Kelly QB to start out strong and fail to improve...hell, many regress as time goes on. That's been pretty true for all QB coaches under Kelly at ND, how many have gotten consistently better each year?

                          Stumble and bumble for months during Covid? For quite a bit there in 2020 many conferences were stumbling and bumbling as they waffled on whether we'd even have a football season. Rees didn't get the benefit of Spring ball his first year as OC. This comment makes no sense to me. 17th is certainly nothing to sneeze at, especially when your starting WRs are a glorified blocking TE, a Northwestern transfer, and a converted QB. Our best receivers for much of the season were Mayer and Kyren.
                          I understand this but I'll judge Rees on what he's done with the position while he's QB coach and OC. Book didn't get better over those 3 years at what he wasn't good at when he started. Book was a good find as a recruit (Tommy did not recruit him) but never developed into a complete QB. Some blame has to be assessed to QB coach and OC.

                          The stumble and bumble comment was in regards to recruiting. The 2022 recruiting cycle is one that most fans should forget. Rees just sat around and waited for months to do something and never did. While doing so, most elite signal callers were building plans with other programs. That ultimately led us to settling on Angeli after we were late with others.

                          Yes, I understand that. But, it was also by design. They didn't have to bring in Ben. They didn't have to play Javon. They chose too. They could've went young, fast, and more explosive but they chose not too. And the results were solid. And that's part of the point. If they can't get that group over the hump. Then what unit will? And, if every year we have a subpar position group, somewhere on offense, will it ever happen? And who's responsibility is that? They though it was going to be 2021. Playmakers everywhere, speed on the perimeter, best RB tandem in the country, and we'll just bring in the veteran signal caller that can him them deep. And then for different reasons altogether this is failing miserably.

                          You can't have an OC and then explain away all the problems that each position group has every year. It's his offense. He should be in charge of building the personnel and then putting the personnel that he has in the best position to be successful. I don't think the 2020 maxed out where they felt they should. Again, we have some public comments from Book on this. And I think they completely misjudged this 2021 OL situation. Rees has watched most of these guys play for years. He has to have some culpability in the matter.

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                          • Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

                            Ian Book was also a three star athlete that some would say played above what pundits thought he could do. It's certainly not uncommon for a Kelly QB to start out strong and fail to improve...hell, many regress as time goes on. That's been pretty true for all QB coaches under Kelly at ND, how many have gotten consistently better each year?

                            Stumble and bumble for months during Covid? For quite a bit there in 2020 many conferences were stumbling and bumbling as they waffled on whether we'd even have a football season. Rees didn't get the benefit of Spring ball his first year as OC. This comment makes no sense to me. 17th is certainly nothing to sneeze at, especially when your starting WRs are a glorified blocking TE, a Northwestern transfer, and a converted QB. Our best receivers for much of the season were Mayer and Kyren.
                            The glorified blocking TE was a 3rd round pick, the NW guy is playing on the Rams, Mayer will be a 1st round pick and Kyren will be in the league. Davis, not sure. Throw in 4 NFL lineman and that’s a pretty loaded offense.
                            "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

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                            • Originally posted by NDRock View Post

                              The glorified blocking TE was a 3rd round pick, the NW guy is playing on the Rams, Mayer will be a 1st round pick and Kyren will be in the league. Davis, not sure. Throw in 4 NFL lineman and that’s a pretty loaded offense.
                              I assume he was talking about McKinley. Tremble wasn’t a glorified TE, he just was a TE.

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                              • They chose too. They could've went young, fast, and more explosive but they chose not too.
                                Who are these guys they chose not to play LY?

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                                • Originally posted by NDRock View Post

                                  The glorified blocking TE was a 3rd round pick, the NW guy is playing on the Rams, Mayer will be a 1st round pick and Kyren will be in the league. Davis, not sure. Throw in 4 NFL lineman and that’s a pretty loaded offense.
                                  The glorified blocking TE I was talking about was McKiinley. He had some good games, but very inconsistent as a receiver. Skow is playing for the Rams, but hasn't registered a catch yet. No arguments on Mayer and Kyren, especially since they were the consistent play makers all season. The point was that the WR group as a whole under-performed compared to prior years. Love those guys that stepped up when the others didn't, but it would be a stretch to call them world beaters.

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                                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                    Who are these guys they chose not to play LY?
                                    First consider that I'm not saying they chose wrong but that it was a choice. Getting Davis more involved like they have this year would've also been an option. Consider that in the 10 games Davis played between the 2019 season and 2021 (so far) he has more production than his production in the 11 games he played in 2020. Kind of surprised nobody is talking about this. That was Tommy's choice (or responsibility, depending on how look at it) whether or not to get him more involved. But everyone knows who we had. Lawrence Keys, Joe Wilkins, Braden Lenzy, Jordan Johnson, Xavier Watts, etc.

                                    All choices would have there own merits. I believe they chose right for what they wanted to do. But, when they make that choice, we can't just explain away the limits that they are self imposing on the offense by doing so.

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                                    • And, on a separate note, anybody that says the offense was limited vertically on the WR's just isn't paying attention. The slot WR post that Book hit to Davis against Clemson was in the playbook, all year. Literally they run it, all the time. It's the same slot WR post that Coan hit to Davis this year. Book just would not throw it. And, Rees couldn't ever get him to do it with consistency. They tried to get Book to be more vertical and he just wouldn't do it. I remember Book's offseason twitter videos of him dropping these beautiful bombs in workouts to Austin, Ben, etc. Everybody wanted to build a vertical passing game with Book. They were just unsuccessful at consistently doing so when the lights came on. Some of that has to be blamed on QB coach and OC.

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                                      • With Tommy I think we are asking the wrong question here.
                                        It shouldn't be" "is he fine?", "is he good?", "is it his fault?" it should just be "IS HE THE ABSOLUTE BEST OC/QBC AVAILABLE?".
                                        If he is only here because he is a yes or a positive to the earlier questions (rather than what I submit is the actual question) then it is a lazy hire.

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                                        • My biggest frustration is that Austin and Lenzy don’t appear to be good at catching footballs and Styles and Colzie’s reps should reflect that shortcoming. Get Buchner on the field and let him throw it to the young guys. Next season will be all the better for it.

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                                          • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post
                                            And, on a separate note, anybody that says the offense was limited vertically on the WR's just isn't paying attention. The slot WR post that Book hit to Davis against Clemson was in the playbook, all year. Literally they run it, all the time. It's the same slot WR post that Coan hit to Davis this year. Book just would not throw it. And, Rees couldn't ever get him to do it with consistency. They tried to get Book to be more vertical and he just wouldn't do it. I remember Book's offseason twitter videos of him dropping these beautiful bombs in workouts to Austin, Ben, etc. Everybody wanted to build a vertical passing game with Book. They were just unsuccessful at consistently doing so when the lights came on. Some of that has to be blamed on QB coach and OC.
                                            Not sure you can blame the QBC and OC if the QB has been coached to do it, but won’t pull the trigger. What’s his option, bench Book for who?

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                                            • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                              Not sure you can blame the QBC and OC if the QB has been coached to do it, but won’t pull the trigger. What’s his option, bench Book for who?
                                              But, that’s really the point. If his best option is a guy that can’t do everything he wants then he’s not doing his job. Whether that is in recruiting and/or development. He’s not getting it done to the degree someone in his position should.

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                                              • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                But, that’s really the point. If his best option is a guy that can’t do everything he wants then he’s not doing his job. Whether that is in recruiting and/or development. He’s not getting it done to the degree someone in his position should.
                                                And then there is the Phil situation.

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                                                • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                  But, that’s really the point. If his best option is a guy that can’t do everything he wants then he’s not doing his job. Whether that is in recruiting and/or development. He’s not getting it done to the degree someone in his position should.
                                                  That's easier said than done. QB's have been a mystery for ages. Look at all of the NFL QB's that were very good in college and never panned out or were no where near their production in college. Or HS kids that never became that AA everyone thought they would be. Doesn't mean all those coaches were to blame when it comes to development.

                                                  Having said that, I agree that Tommy needs to step it up in recruiting, but I don't believe he's negligent in the development part. You can lead a horse to water.......

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                                                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                    Lance Taylor is the run game coordinator so pinning the OL on Quinn and then moving to Rees is not fair. Lance should be having as much if not more contact with the OL
                                                    Good point. However, more often than not these are just titles. How much of the run game is he actually "coordinating"? He's the RB coach. Giving him the extra word salad on his title is pretty common.

                                                    That said, Taylor is the guy I'd keep around right now more than any of the others on the offensive staff.
                                                    It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                    • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                      Good point. However, more often than not these are just titles. How much of the run game is he actually "coordinating"? He's the RB coach. Giving him the extra word salad on his title is pretty common.

                                                      That said, Taylor is the guy I'd keep around right now more than any of the others on the offensive staff.
                                                      Fair on the title. But Lance is also the on the field voice for Rees in game so I would hope he’s also taken additional responsibility in practice, and is likely getting paid to reflect that. If not with the OL, he’s a former WRs coach, so is he helping there which could certainly use it too?

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                                                      • As much as Kelly and Swarbrick have brought to the program, it does seem like the offense is always held together by duct tape and hot glue.

                                                        You never go into games thinking 'we're bringing 40+ points today.

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                                                        • Originally posted by NDRock View Post

                                                          That may be true. I personally have no confidence in the line either.
                                                          Ditto that shit!

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                                                          • Starting Coan should have this thread back to form in no time.

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                                                            • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                                                              Starting Coan should have this thread back to form in no time.
                                                              RDU, you need either a six pack or a valium right about now. lol

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                                                              • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                                RDU, you need either a six pack or a valium right about now. lol
                                                                Why not both?
                                                                Formerly known as Kellyisit

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                                                                • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                                                                  Starting Coan should have this thread back to form in no time.
                                                                  Right?! lol, I was just thinking how the Coan news is gonna get many to revisit the fuck out of the revisit thread...
                                                                  There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                                    RDU, you need either a six pack or a valium right about now. lol
                                                                    True story - this news has me triggered.

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                                                                    • What's this about Coan? Does it have to do with Kelly saying "You need experience when you go into VT"?
                                                                      I mean, Pyne has experience! Just not a lot of it

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                                                                      • Wish Kelly took his own "experience" advice when hiring an OC...

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                                                                        • The problem with Kelly is that he thinks he is so much smarter than everyone else. He does have the most wins and he has had to go through some terrible times to do this. And he should be congradulated for that. But him being stubborn/cocky will be just as big of a story when he leaves.
                                                                          Last edited by irishff1014; 10-08-2021, 02:15 PM.
                                                                          Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                          • I think Pyne will be the starter. The Kelly press conference comments is a smoke screen.

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                                                                            • Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post
                                                                              What's this about Coan? Does it have to do with Kelly saying "You need experience when you go into VT"?
                                                                              I mean, Pyne has experience! Just not a lot of it
                                                                              Yeah that is what made everyone think it is Coan. But he also has said we can't keep changing around which I don't think he would say if it was Coan because of how last week went and you have to think there is a pretty good chance Coan would be sacked 5ish times by half time this week as well.

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                                                                              • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post
                                                                                Wish Kelly took his own "experience" advice when hiring an OC...
                                                                                But he's not coaching at VT every week.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post
                                                                                  The problem with Kelly is that he thinks he is som much smart than everyone else. We does have the most wins and he has had to go through some terrible times to do this. And he should be congradulated for that. But him being stubborn/cocky will be just as big of a story when he leaves.
                                                                                  That's the problem with all HC's. They all think they know more than us fans. If BK would listen to us, he'd be working on his 7th or 8th natty.

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                                                                                  • Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post
                                                                                    The problem with Kelly is that he thinks he is som much smart than everyone else. We does have the most wins and he has had to go through some terrible times to do this. And he should be congradulated for that. But him being stubborn/cocky will be just as big of a story when he leaves.
                                                                                    The guy had to completely change himself and his staff. That's pretty damn humble.

                                                                                    You just likely don't like the guy. And you're not alone in the fan base by a long shot. Many have never forgiven him for dropping the USF game.
                                                                                    "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                                      I think Pyne will be the starter. The Kelly press conference comments is a smoke screen.
                                                                                      I don't know, man. There are also reports that Coan was getting the majority of practice reps earlier in the week.

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                                                                                      • Oh the love affair between Jack and BK
                                                                                        Last edited by TNUtoNotreDame; 10-08-2021, 11:26 AM.
                                                                                        Congratulations to Brian Kelly for being Notre Dame's career leader in losses.

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post

                                                                                          The guy had to completely change himself and his staff. That's pretty damn humble.

                                                                                          You just likely don't like the guy. And you're not alone in the fan base by a long shot. Many have never forgiven him for dropping the USF game.
                                                                                          I'm with you. Football has so many intangibles. Dayne Crist was a 5 star QB in recruiting sites back in the day, composite score. Tommy was a 3. I didn't see practices leading up to that game, but you would have to think that Dayne had to look better than Tommy given the fact he was named starter again following his injury the previous season. Then comes USF and Dayne is struggling mightily. Tommy gets inserted 2nd half and the offense begins to respond. We had momentum that 2nd half, but were a missed FG from overtime.

                                                                                          The point is we went from two turnovers and nothing but punts the 1st half to three scores in the 2nd. On paper the offense should have operated better with Crist, but for whatever reason practice doesn't always translate to results on game day. Sometimes it's the heady backup that has moxy, and it's intangibles like that which determine who your best players ultimately are. Until you arrive at that moment when your starter fails...how do you know it's time for the backup?

                                                                                          We get a stretch of success again and some fans forget what it's like living through the Davie/Willingham/Weis years where we're losing to the likes of Syracuse, Pitt, Michigan State, and Purdue regularly. Winning is hard, and it's especially hard at Notre Dame compared to many other places. We've got six opponents on the schedule that put a BYE in their schedule before they faced us. Who else can say that? That's the mark of a good program. Armchair quarterbacks think they know better than the guy with the most wins in program history. That doesn't necessarily make him the best coach all time, but the armchair quarterback isn't leading the Irish to a NC either while Saban's machine is rolling.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post

                                                                                            The guy had to completely change himself and his staff. That's pretty damn humble.

                                                                                            You just likely don't like the guy. And you're not alone in the fan base by a long shot. Many have never forgiven him for dropping the USF game.
                                                                                            I do like Kelly I just don’t like his stubbornness. I did call for him to be fired when this thread was started many moons ago. But I backed off that when he was forced to make changes. Then he seemed like he continued to make good decisions without being forced. His involvement in recruiting has been telling.

                                                                                            IMO Mickens hire is still in the air. Recruiting is ok but we aren’t seeing big improvements in the DBs. I think the Freeman hire is going to be good. I think he will recruit better than Lea but not coach better. So right now those hires are good. I think we all agree that Taylor was a good hire. Other than Lea every coach he has hired had experience.

                                                                                            NOONE cay say BK hasn’t help ND. He clearly has. He was supposedly an offensive star coach that has never equated to much at ND on a consistent basis. I am glad he realized that he needed to make the defense a priority but he needs to do that with the offense as well. I do t think that’s happening on the offensive side of the ball or special teams.

                                                                                            and I know that me and you have had some disagreement about this and other topics in the past but you can be a little more patient than I can be.
                                                                                            Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post

                                                                                              I do like Kelly I just don’t like his stubbornness. I did call for him to be fired when this thread was started many moons ago. But I backed off that when he was forced to make changes. Then he seemed like he continued to make good decisions without being forced. His involvement in recruiting has been telling.

                                                                                              IMO Mickens hire is still in the air. Recruiting is ok but we aren’t seeing big improvements in the DBs. I think the Freeman hire is going to be good. I think he will recruit better than Lea but not coach better. So right now those hires are good. I think we all agree that Taylor was a good hire. Other than Lea every coach he has hired had experience.

                                                                                              NOONE cay say BK hasn’t help ND. He clearly has. He was supposedly an offensive star coach that has never equated to much at ND on a consistent basis. I am glad he realized that he needed to make the defense a priority but he needs to do that with the offense as well. I do t think that’s happening on the offensive side of the ball or special teams.

                                                                                              and I know that me and you have had some disagreement about this and other topics in the past but you can be a little more patient than I can be.
                                                                                              Well patience is a virtue.
                                                                                              "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

                                                                                                I'm with you. Football has so many intangibles. Dayne Crist was a 5 star QB in recruiting sites back in the day, composite score. Tommy was a 3. I didn't see practices leading up to that game, but you would have to think that Dayne had to look better than Tommy given the fact he was named starter again following his injury the previous season. Then comes USF and Dayne is struggling mightily. Tommy gets inserted 2nd half and the offense begins to respond. We had momentum that 2nd half, but were a missed FG from overtime.

                                                                                                The point is we went from two turnovers and nothing but punts the 1st half to three scores in the 2nd. On paper the offense should have operated better with Crist, but for whatever reason practice doesn't always translate to results on game day. Sometimes it's the heady backup that has moxy, and it's intangibles like that which determine who your best players ultimately are. Until you arrive at that moment when your starter fails...how do you know it's time for the backup?

                                                                                                We get a stretch of success again and some fans forget what it's like living through the Davie/Willingham/Weis years where we're losing to the likes of Syracuse, Pitt, Michigan State, and Purdue regularly. Winning is hard, and it's especially hard at Notre Dame compared to many other places. We've got six opponents on the schedule that put a BYE in their schedule before they faced us. Who else can say that? That's the mark of a good program. Armchair quarterbacks think they know better than the guy with the most wins in program history. That doesn't necessarily make him the best coach all time, but the armchair quarterback isn't leading the Irish to a NC either while Saban's machine is rolling.
                                                                                                Saban's Machine. I like it. Sounds like a movie.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post
                                                                                                  Oh the love affair between Jack and BK
                                                                                                  OMG this creeps me out and makes me laugh till I cry at the same time. Awesome!
                                                                                                  Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

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                                                                                                  • We're somehow 5-1 and yet I have no faith in Kelly right now. This team is a hot mess. Can't properly manage his QB room at all.

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                                                                                                    • Still BIG mad at the beat lol

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