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Youth Moving Forward

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  • Youth Moving Forward

    So much was made about the youthful talent on this team to start the season. So much promise with young guys filling roles and flying around. What happened to that "talent"? Teams are young everywhere and our youth and seemingly crumbled as the season progressed. Was it overblown and overvalued to begin with?

    Is there any hope moving forward? Hope we can have an objective conversation. Cheers!

  • #2
    Youth Moving Forward

    Judging young players in a complex defense who are getting their first taste of college ball is wrong IMO. Talent is there but mentally they are slow. You don't see many defense's be successful while starting and playing as many young players as ND is.

    It's not an excuse for their play but a reality. You can't expect them to be Top 10 this early. Replacing KVR and Ishaq with Blankenship, Hill, Butler, and Tranquill is just asking for problems. Losing Schmidt also hurts.

    ND was largely successful in 2012 because of their veterans who were seniors with mass amounts of experience. Look at who they lost. It's the complete opposite this year.

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    • #3
      Good points. Not dumping on them by any means. Realistic in what I see now. Just looking for Hope moving forward. Maybe eight wins is a ceiling at ND and championship runs are flukes?

      We can't compare our talent to anyone in the SEC. Have not closed the gap in the least since the Bama debacle.

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      • #4
        I'm pretty sure that the hot start out of the gate, and the subsequent "drop off" is only an illusion created by the fact that the younger guys are just now being given the whole playbook. It certainly seems like the defense as a whole has taken a giant leap backwards, but what if they haven't? What if they are progressing, but the little mistakes are magnified even larger, as there is less overlap of assignments because guys are tasked with doing more? I'm not saying that is the case, but I do think it is a distinct possibility.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CarrollVermin View Post
          Good points. Not dumping on them by any means. Realistic in what I see now. Just looking for Hope moving forward. Maybe eight wins is a ceiling at ND and championship runs are flukes?

          We can't compare our talent to anyone in the SEC. Have not closed the gap in the least since the Bama debacle.
          I agree overall with your statement, but not the bold. Talent and production are 2 different things. We have some talent. We haven't produced.
          #TeamKizer

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kmoose View Post
            I'm pretty sure that the hot start out of the gate, and the subsequent "drop off" is only an illusion created by the fact that the younger guys are just now being given the whole playbook. It certainly seems like the defense as a whole has taken a giant leap backwards, but what if they haven't? What if they are progressing, but the little mistakes are magnified even larger, as there is less overlap of assignments because guys are tasked with doing more? I'm not saying that is the case, but I do think it is a distinct possibility.

            Even BVG said he was surprised at how quickly they were dominating early on. Most of the mistakes are being made by the young kids. But again, most of them are young. Hard to generate a pass rush against 3-step drops too.

            Flutie noted yesterday that Morgan has the talent but it's clear he's just thinking too much. He said that the only thing that cures that is experience.

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            • #7
              Then simplify the scheme. Sorry I just don't care. Adjust to your personnel. Don't run delayed blitzes fro 10 yards out on 3 step. Don't run twists with true freshmen in there who can't get to contain or the inside. They have glaring holes on defense and no one looks like they have a clue what they are doing. That's on the coaches.


              Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                There is no doubt in my mind that this will be a very good team next year and these growing pains will make them better, but damn, last night should not have been a setback. There's nothing we can do but move forward so I will not harp on it anymore.

                With the influx in talent and experience returning to coincide with the hopeful return of Russell, Ishaq, and I am praying Daniels, we should make a run for the playoffs. That said, there are three more games to build on a rather surprisingly good season. Time to get better, and get more experience for the key pieces in this youth movement, and that is to include Greg Bryant. If he does not get substantial playing time to close out the season I will be very disappointed.

                I do want to single one guy out though, and that is Fuller. Just an incredible year he is having and he deserves major props. He and Daniels could be something very special next year! I hope that ends up being the case!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dang227 View Post
                  Then simplify the scheme. Sorry I just don't care. Adjust to your personnel. Don't run delayed blitzes fro 10 yards out on 3 step. Don't run twists with true freshmen in there who can't get to contain or the inside. They have glaring holes on defense and no one looks like they have a clue what they are doing. That's on the coaches.


                  Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                  So you want player development, but we have to limit the tools that we give players by only calling defensive plays that they have already mastered?

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                  • #10
                    My take on the youth at ND is less about X's and O's and more about mental state. I think that ND had a bunch of young, athletic freshmen who came out early this year and played their hearts out because they didn't know they could lose so badly has they did on Saturday. Since FSU, their confidence has been challenged time and time again, and now, rather than being confident and aggressive and playing to win, they're overthinking their play and playing not to lose. Every player goes through this process, some more quickly than others. Unfortunately, we've got a lot of players going through this right now.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                      So you want player development, but we have to limit the tools that we give players by only calling defensive plays that they have already mastered?
                      I think I would expect mastery of the playbook to happen in practice, not during the games. I don't think a lot of coaches go into games saying -- ya know, we could not run this play all week in practice, but I'm going to go ahead and call it anyway. Let's see what happens.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BigIrish View Post
                        My take on the youth at ND is less about X's and O's and more about mental state. I think that ND had a bunch of young, athletic freshmen who came out early this year and played their hearts out because they didn't know they could lose so badly has they did on Saturday. Since FSU, their confidence has been challenged time and time again, and now, rather than being confident and aggressive and playing to win, they're overthinking their play and playing not to lose. Every player goes through this process, some more quickly than others. Unfortunately, we've got a lot of players going through this right now.
                        Watching the freshman perform at the Michigan games was fun. They were flying to the ball - hitting anything that moved - they were fearless. I loved it. I haven't seen that same energy out of them, or the team, since that game. I don't know if it's the freshman wall they are hitting or if the defensive assignments have them thinking more than they were that game, but it is definitely a different feeling.

                        I do realize quality of opponent has something to do with it also, but the energy level hasn't been there.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NDohio View Post
                          Watching the freshman perform at the Michigan games was fun. They were flying to the ball - hitting anything that moved - they were fearless. I loved it. I haven't seen that same energy out of them, or the team, since that game. I don't know if it's the freshman wall they are hitting or if the defensive assignments have them thinking more than they were that game, but it is definitely a different feeling.

                          I do realize quality of opponent has something to do with it also, but the energy level hasn't been there.
                          I think most of them have hit the proverbial freshman wall. Studies, learning a new system, much more strenuous practices than HS, time management, etc..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CarrollVermin View Post
                            So much was made about the youthful talent on this team to start the season. So much promise with young guys filling roles and flying around. What happened to that "talent"? Teams are young everywhere and our youth and seemingly crumbled as the season progressed. Was it overblown and overvalued to begin with?

                            Is there any hope moving forward? Hope we can have an objective conversation. Cheers!
                            I see young guys at big skill positions that will be tremendous. I don't see any defensive skill from those same young guns. Maybe I'm wrong but not to me. Morgan gets a pass but next year he has to take his place next to Jaylon and Schmitt. This whole thing next year hinges on the defense-who returns/who's healthy/and do they become 1 unit. This offense will score points next year at a prolific pace-$%#@ they did that this year.
                            Project ahead when you think of what university you want to bring your family to as an alum. If it isnt Notre Dame then you should go to another school-from a subway alumni

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                            • #15
                              I do think we're missing Schmidt out there a lot. A lot more than I thought we would. The run defense in particular has been rough the last two weeks, and so much of that's about assignments.
                              That said, Morgan's the future, and he'll get it. This time will help him next year. I feel the same about Shumate and Redfield, though. Sitting them so much Saturday didn't make sense to me, especially with Collinsworth obviously still hurting.

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                              • #16
                                National championship runs are the exception for every team in the country. It's pure statistics- no team has a 100% probability of beating every team they play. The odds of stringing together 12 wins in a row are really quite low. Just look at any sport with a bigger sample size of games and you'll realize how rare 11-1 or 12-0 is.

                                Even if we were favored to win every game we played 9 times out of 10 you'd still expect a couple of losses. Realistically, as long as we continue to schedule good competition, there will always be a couple of games on the schedule that are closer to 50/50 than 90/10. A lot has to go right to make a national championship run, even on a great team.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
                                  I think most of them have hit the proverbial freshman wall. Studies, learning a new system, much more strenuous practices than HS, time management, etc..
                                  True in all sports when you jump up a level. Also it takes a physical toll when an 18 or19 year old freshman is consistently going up against 22 to 25 year old fifth and six year "seniors", as is often the case in the line.

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