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  • Chuck Martin has no idea what he is doing

    I don't care if we score 35+ points this half. It's painfully obvious how deficient he is at play calling. He has thrown 100 WR screens and Purdue knows exactly what is coming. The empty sets are silly. No fakes or deception. Just completely unimaginative and it's going to kill us long term.

    Kelly needs to take back play calling moving forward.

  • #2
    Now this, I agree with!

    Edit: Better since this was posted!
    Last edited by NDinMich; 09-14-2013, 09:07 PM.
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    • #3
      By Martin do you mean Diaco.....too?

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      • #4
        Both. It's painful to watch play calling on both sides of the ball

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        • #5
          Good job cam you just saved a scam an then tommy makes a bad throw.
          Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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          • #6
            Tommy quit checking you are costing us plays.
            Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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            • #7
              Originally posted by FLDomer View Post
              By Martin do you mean Diaco.....too?
              Pretty much. But I more blame our personnel for being bad at everything involved with defense.

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              • #8
                I'm curious of the ratio between Chuck's calls executed and Tommy's checks.
                This post brought to you by the IE 2013 Fantasy Football, Fantasy Basketball, and Fantasy Baseball Champion. (Congrats to Junkhead for the 2013 College Fantasy Football Championship).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ironman8 View Post
                  I'm curious of the ratio between Chuck's calls executed and Tommy's checks.
                  Me too. But I wonder if Tommy has to check because the D knows exactly what Martin called.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                    Me too. But I wonder if Tommy has to check because the D knows exactly what Martin called.
                    Definitely possible. Either way, it's frustrating as hell. Why we are squandering our huge WR to DB talent advantage by throwing sideways and behind the line of scrimmage baffles me.
                    This post brought to you by the IE 2013 Fantasy Football, Fantasy Basketball, and Fantasy Baseball Champion. (Congrats to Junkhead for the 2013 College Fantasy Football Championship).

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                    • #11
                      Martin was a DC for his whole career. No wonder putting him at OC doesn't work. What was Kelly thinking with that one.

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                      • #12
                        I have a feeling BK took over play calling after half
                        The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                          I have a feeling BK took over play calling after half
                          Yes, he did.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                            Yes, he did.
                            And Tommy checked less after half. I blame Martin.

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                            • #15
                              That damned Martin keeps calling those dropped pass plays!!!

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Title2114 View Post
                                Martin was a DC for his whole career. No wonder putting him at OC doesn't work. What was Kelly thinking with that one.
                                Martin actually ran the offense at GVS, but you were close to correct.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                  Me too. But I wonder if Tommy has to check because the D knows exactly what Martin called.
                                  Inception.

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                                  • #18
                                    Chuck Martin has no idea what he is doing

                                    Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                                    I have a feeling BK took over play calling after half
                                    I think he did in the first quarter. I don't necessarily think it is Martin. It's just this offense.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Title2114 View Post
                                      Martin was a DC for his whole career. No wonder putting him at OC doesn't work. What was Kelly thinking with that one.
                                      He called the plays at grand valley
                                      God, Country, Notre Dame

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                                      • #20
                                        Our secondary is just weak, Farley?????

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                                        • #21
                                          It is odd we don't attack the middle of the field more. Those throws to the sideline are long..

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                                          • #22
                                            It's either an inside run or a screen. Whoever is calling it over and over, how about some imagination!?
                                            2013 IE College Fantasy Football Champion

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                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by Junkhead View Post
                                              It's either an inside run or a screen. Whoever is calling it over and over, how about some imagination!?
                                              Seriously... if just once we lined up in the empty set, motioned a back next to Tommy, and then FAKED the dive you'd have someone WIDE OPEN... most likely Niklas in the seam.

                                              This isn't rocket science. Watch Alabama play with their power running and you'll notice that the reason they're deadly is that they DESTROY teams on play action. I don't care how good of a team you have... lining up and running plays that the oppositions knows are coming again and again and again does not work. You need to mix in fakes to keep them honest.

                                              What happens if just once we had Chris Brown put a double move on one of those CBs who was jumping the lateral pass to the flat? SEE YA! He's gone for a TD.

                                              The coaches need to step their game up and they need to do it NOW.

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                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                Seriously... if just once we lined up in the empty set, motioned a back next to Tommy, and then FAKED the dive you'd have someone WIDE OPEN... most likely Niklas in the seam.
                                                I think we did that two times today. Once, Chris Brown caught a 40-yard pass. Another time, Niklas dropped what would have been a 20+ yard reception.

                                                Pretty sure both of these plays came off play action. I totally agree with you though, Lax.

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                                                • #25
                                                  The team doesn't look coached. Maybe the off season distractions took more of a toll than we thought. A lot of scurrying around in the secondary to no particular effect. Mostly. The O in the first half had their backs against the goal line for most of the time. the second half saw them with better field position and the results were good. That said, play calling was vanilla, predictable and mind boggling. GO IRISH!

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                                                  • #26
                                                    Im glad I didn't hit the boards till now. You ****ing guys are hilarious

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                                                    • #27
                                                      Originally posted by anarin View Post
                                                      Im glad I didn't hit the boards till now. You ****ing guys are hilarious
                                                      Please elaborate.

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                                                      • #28
                                                        Power running game with Cam/Bryant and GAIII mixed in. Keep Amir in the slot. Hit the play action to TJ/DD and keep the defense honest after some run plays. It works great, just ask pretty much any team that can execute.

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                                                        • #29
                                                          Also I don't believe in Amir running the ball out of the pistol. That's the formation for Atkinson and cam. Amir is still a good back if use correctly

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                                                          • #30
                                                            The team is averaging ~30(29.7) points per game. I think Martin has a clue. Is he a polished play caller? Of course not, but he is obviously qualified. And perhaps Kelly's plan, all along, has been to have Martin call plays against the part of the schedule that the team can beat even if the play caller makes some rookie mistakes, and then take over the play calling against the meatier part of the schedule? Or maybe he is just mentoring Martin into calling the plays? Either way, I trust Kelly's ability to evaluate his coaches' competence way more than anyone on here.

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                                                            • #31
                                                              Not sure the point of this thread was either. I will say ND scored more points than they did against Michigan and Purdue last year.
                                                              TEAM = Together Everyone Achieves More

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                                                              • #32
                                                                Hopefully Jeff Quinn gets fires at Buffalo after this year. Have wanted him for the last 4 years.

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                                                                • #33
                                                                  Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                  The team is averaging ~30(29.7) points per game. I think Martin has a clue. Is he a polished play caller? Of course not, but he is obviously qualified. And perhaps Kelly's plan, all along, has been to have Martin call plays against the part of the schedule that the team can beat even if the play caller makes some rookie mistakes, and then take over the play calling against the meatier part of the schedule? Or maybe he is just mentoring Martin into calling the plays? Either way, I trust Kelly's ability to evaluate his coaches' competence way more than anyone on here.
                                                                  There has been ZERO improvement in this team in either week yet. In the last 2 weeks we have had to depend on Rees to throw the ball a lot to come back in the games. I do believe it is time to scale back on letting Rees check out of the run so much. I do believe that he does hurt us a little by check out so much. We are getting Good play fro m the QB position but the coaching isn't good and you can see that buy some of the playing calling.
                                                                  Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post
                                                                    There has been ZERO improvement in this team in either week yet. In the last 2 weeks we have had to depend on Rees to throw the ball a lot to come back in the games. I do believe it is time to scale back on letting Rees check out of the run so much. I do believe that he does hurt us a little by check out so much. We are getting Good play fro m the QB position but the coaching isn't good and you can see that buy some of the playing calling.
                                                                    If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time that Martin has called plays at DI-A. Of course there are going to be some head scratchers. I don't think that Rees is Len Dawson out there, calling his own plays. I'm pretty sure that the checks that he makes have specific limitations; a run called and the defense has 9 guys in the box? Check to the pass. Pass play called and the LBs are ALL showing that they will drop off into zone coverage at the snap? Check into a run.

                                                                    What no one has mentioned yet, is that Purdue's front 7 actually played very well, especially in the first half! Purdue has some kids that can play, too, ya know?

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                                                                    • #35
                                                                      Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                      If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time that Martin has called plays at DI-A. Of course there are going to be some head scratchers. I don't think that Rees is Len Dawson out there, calling his own plays. I'm pretty sure that the checks that he makes have specific limitations; a run called and the defense has 9 guys in the box? Check to the pass. Pass play called and the LBs are ALL showing that they will drop off into zone coverage at the snap? Check into a run.

                                                                      What no one has mentioned yet, is that Purdue's front 7 actually played very well, especially in the first half! Purdue has some kids that can play, too, ya know?
                                                                      Another fan making excuses for this team. That's the problem everyone wants to make excuses this team isn't coached well nor playing well.
                                                                      Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post
                                                                        Another fan making excuses for this team. That's the problem everyone wants to make excuses this team isn't coached well nor playing well.
                                                                        Another knee jerk reaction to a WIN that some guy on his couch thinks wasn't good enough. I don't have to make excuses for anyone; I have ZERO impact on who is coaching the team, or playing for the team. But I haven't allowed myself to think that, just because we had a great year last year, we have suddenly become the Packers of the 60s, or the Monsters of the Midway; so I'm not out-of-my-head-pi$$ed-off. I've offered plenty of opinion about where we need to get better. But some people appear to want to scrap the entire program, over a win.

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                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                          The team is averaging ~30(29.7) points per game. I think Martin has a clue. Is he a polished play caller? Of course not, but he is obviously qualified. And perhaps Kelly's plan, all along, has been to have Martin call plays against the part of the schedule that the team can beat even if the play caller makes some rookie mistakes, and then take over the play calling against the meatier part of the schedule? Or maybe he is just mentoring Martin into calling the plays? Either way, I trust Kelly's ability to evaluate his coaches' competence way more than anyone on here.
                                                                          Yeah, except it's not... it's averaging 25 a game if you take out defensive TDs and that's middle of the pack AT BEST. Kelly took over play calling in the second half, and the offense was better.

                                                                          It's obvious to anyone watching the games that the lack of creativity in the play calling is a HUGE issue. We need a real OC who is willing to take some chances.

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                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                            Yeah, except it's not... it's averaging 25 a game if you take out defensive TDs and that's middle of the pack AT BEST. Kelly took over play calling in the second half, and the offense was better.

                                                                            It's obvious to anyone watching the games that the lack of creativity in the play calling is a HUGE issue. We need a real OC who is willing to take some chances.
                                                                            Middle of the pack before or after you sift out all of the other teams' defensive/special teams scores?

                                                                            400 yards, 24 points, 11 of 16 on 3rd down: I think the offense is the least of our worries.

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                                                                            • #39
                                                                              Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                              Another knee jerk reaction to a WIN that some guy on his couch thinks wasn't good enough. I don't have to make excuses for anyone; I have ZERO impact on who is coaching the team, or playing for the team. But I haven't allowed myself to think that, just because we had a great year last year, we have suddenly become the Packers of the 60s, or the Monsters of the Midway; so I'm not out-of-my-head-pi$$ed-off. I've offered plenty of opinion about where we need to get better. But some people appear to want to scrap the entire program, over a win.
                                                                              I don't want to scrap entire program. I want to see this talented team play to a talented level at which they aren't doing right now.
                                                                              Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Originally posted by irishff1014 View Post
                                                                                I don't want to scrap entire program. I want to see this talented team play to a talented level at which they aren't doing right now.
                                                                                I suggest you send your resume to Coach Kelly, then.

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                                                                                • #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                                  Middle of the pack before or after you sift out all of the other teams' defensive/special teams scores?

                                                                                  400 yards, 24 points, 11 of 16 on 3rd down: I think the offense is the least of our worries.
                                                                                  29.7 PPG (against generally bad defenses too) is 66th out of 125... so middle of the pack already, even with defensive TDs. It's not good.

                                                                                  There is nothing holding this offense back but a lack of offensive identity/bad play calling. Whenever we get aggressive, or use any kind of play fake or deception, we have receivers wide open and big plays. Either that, or put multiple TEs on the field and run the ball hard. The coaches need to choose how this team is going to dictate to opponents instead of always letting the opponents dictate to us and having Tommy check into the exact play they want.

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                                                                                  • #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                                    29.7 PPG (against generally bad defenses too) is 66th out of 125... so middle of the pack already, even with defensive TDs. It's not good.

                                                                                    There is nothing holding this offense back but a lack of offensive identity/bad play calling. Whenever we get aggressive, or use any kind of play fake or deception, we have receivers wide open and big plays. Either that, or put multiple TEs on the field and run the ball hard. The coaches need to choose how this team is going to dictate to opponents instead of always letting the opponents dictate to us and having Tommy check into the exact play they want.
                                                                                    I've got to get to work, so I will leave it on this note:

                                                                                    The reason that the play fake works is because you spend the time calling the "unimaginative" run after run after run. This is not an NFL, or SEC, team; the coaches don't have hour upon hour upon hour to install complex schemes during the week. In the NFL, they do. And I seriously doubt that the SEC, B1G, or most conferences really pay much attention to the limits on practice time through the week. We KNOW Rich Rodriguez doesn't. The point is not that the offense is GOOD, but that it is good enough! Chuck Martin's first few games calling plays against DI-A teams is not a very good sample, to base conclusions on. I'm sure he will get better, and the offense will improve. While that is happening, let's not act like the offense is BAD.

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                                                                                    • #43
                                                                                      We're just running a vanilla offense so we don't show Stanford anything.

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                                                                                      • #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post
                                                                                        We're just running a vanilla offense so we don't show Stanford anything.
                                                                                        Texas next year. Gotta keep your eye on the future.

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                                                                                        • #45
                                                                                          Is it true that Kelly took over play-calling in the second half or are you fellas just speculating?

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                                                                                          • #46
                                                                                            1) Said this before, but about 90% of the time that Daniel Smith is in the slot, its a quick screen that way.

                                                                                            2) Everytime a RB gets motioned into the backfield and does his stepping in place routine before the snap, its a run play.

                                                                                            3) Niklas in the slot=screen that way

                                                                                            4) Pistol with 2 TEs to the same side=run off tackle that way

                                                                                            I don't know much about football, but its getting to the point where I can call our plays about 50% of the time. No wonder Saban shut us down with a month to prepare last year.

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                                                                                            • #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by BurningRiver View Post
                                                                                              Is it true that Kelly took over play-calling in the second half or are you fellas just speculating?
                                                                                              I haven't heard that. Where did you see that at sir?
                                                                                              Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                                              • #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by irishfan View Post
                                                                                                1) Said this before, but about 90% of the time that Daniel Smith is in the slot, its a quick screen that way.

                                                                                                2) Everytime a RB gets motioned into the backfield and does his stepping in place routine before the snap, its a run play.

                                                                                                3) Niklas in the slot=screen that way

                                                                                                4) Pistol with 2 TEs to the same side=run off tackle that way

                                                                                                I don't know much about football, but its getting to the point where I can call our plays about 50% of the time. No wonder Saban shut us down with a month to prepare last year.
                                                                                                THIS!!!! I was able to call the play we were going to run to the letter for 8 first half plays in a row last night. This includes checks... god, the checks are even more obvious than the alignments sometimes. If I can do that... someone who knows jack **** about football... you better believe their defenders can do it.

                                                                                                Stop. Telegraphing. The. Plays.

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                                                                                                • #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by BurningRiver View Post
                                                                                                  Is it true that Kelly took over play-calling in the second half or are you fellas just speculating?
                                                                                                  Yes, he did. He had the playsheet and was calling stuff in.

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                                                                                                  • #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                                                    Yes, he did. He had the playsheet and was calling stuff in.
                                                                                                    That's interesting. Play-calling improved DRAMATICALLY in the second half

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