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  • Kelly's Heart Attacks

    I can't control what Brian Kelly says, but he has two athletic dynamic players in Golson and Atkinson III. It is his job to get them on the field and be productive by their sophomore seasons. Ara did it with Hanratty and Seymour. Lou did it with Ricky Watters and Rocket (who was a true freshman). There are many more sophomores that I could name from those eras as well.

    If Kelly has greatness in him, he'll be able to do it with Golson and Atkinson III. Jamoris Slaughter compared Atkinson III to Adrian Peterson. Getting him to hold onto the football, or at least minimize his turnovers should be doable. If Atkinson III sits behind Wood and Riddick because Kelly's system can't get him on the filed, something is wrong. If Kelly's signal calls from the bench are hindering Golson, he should simplify them. For whatever aspects of "the system" Golson can't fully embrace, he makes up for in athleticism. Kelly's system shouldn't strangle Golson's ability to improvise, which is one of his main qualities, consistent with all athletic QB's.

    Kelly needs to get both players on the field this fall. If he can't, it will be a big red flag imo.

  • #2
    I agree fully.

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    • #3
      Agree they need to be on the field but I can understand why BK is not willing to "dumb down" his ways in spring ball. EG had all last year and has all summer coming to leearn the signals. He should be able to get that done. If not, maybe we talk about his work ethic?

      As stated, needs to be on the field FO SHO!
      When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time. - Max McGee

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dboe34 View Post
        Agree they need to be on the field but I can understand why BK is not willing to "dumb down" his ways in spring ball. EG had all last year and has all summer coming to leearn the signals. He should be able to get that done. If not, maybe we talk about his work ethic?

        As stated, needs to be on the field FO SHO!
        He was running the scout team all last year...not sure how much he was learning OUR offense

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Patulski View Post
          I can't control what Brian Kelly says, but he has two athletic dynamic players in Golson and Atkinson III. It is his job to get them on the field and be productive by their sophomore seasons. Ara did it with Hanratty and Seymour. Lou did it with Ricky Watters and Rocket (who was a true freshman). There are many more sophomores that I could name from those eras as well.

          If Kelly has greatness in him, he'll be able to do it with Golson and Atkinson III. Jamoris Slaughter compared Atkinson III to Adrian Peterson. Getting him to hold onto the football, or at least minimize his turnovers should be doable. If Atkinson III sits behind Wood and Riddick because Kelly's system can't get him on the filed, something is wrong. If Kelly's signal calls from the bench are hindering Golson, he should simplify them. For whatever aspects of "the system" Golson can't fully embrace, he makes up for in athleticism. Kelly's system shouldn't strangle Golson's ability to improvise, which is one of his main qualities, consistent with all athletic QB's.
          Kelly needs to get both players on the field this fall. If he can't, it will be a big red flag imo.

          I agree with much of this. Great coaches adjust the playbook to leverage the skills of their best players. It's less about the system the coach likes to use, and more about highlighting the abilities of the players we have. Ego drives some coaches to say "Do it my way" and usually those coaches end up on the highway. I have confidence in BK and think he'll make the needed adjustments.

          Comment


          • #6
            Coach is already making huge adjustments. That's what the two tight end and combo slot/RB changes are all about. Both of these adjustments play to our strengths as we are loaded with some of the best players in the nation for those roles. It also minimizes our current [slight] deficiency at WR. Systemically, he's doing a masterful job. We should applaud all of that.

            The issue isn't whether he will get GAIII on the field, it's whether he will be able to play Golson, or alternatively Hendrix. And if played whether they will take care of the ball. At the Slot/RB hybrid, we have Wood, GAIII, Riddick, Toma all as capable operatives with Carlisle coming. [Neal and Russell too ... and Mahone]. If one ignored the four last names [something that a lot of people don't want to do] then Coach can get the first four in for a lot of shared touches. It would be a highly desirable two-deep situation and a primary striking force in our attack. I see no indication that Kelly has anything other than this in mind. The only puzzle still to me is whether he will also attempt to wedge in Carlisle some there. The three frosh may be best served redshirting no matter how talented, unless Neal returns kicks.

            There is no issue that I see about Kelly not adjusting. We have NO offensive problems except THE BIG ONE --- QB ball security. Lord, if we just had ONE low-turnover QB who could throw with a little accuracy, this Rolls would roll for 40 a game ... and players like GAIII would get plenty of field time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
              Coach is already making huge adjustments. That's what the two tight end and combo slot/RB changes are all about. Both of these adjustments play to our strengths as we are loaded with some of the best players in the nation for those roles. It also minimizes our current [slight] deficiency at WR. Systemically, he's doing a masterful job. We should applaud all of that.

              The issue isn't whether he will get GAIII on the field, it's whether he will be able to play Golson, or alternatively Hendrix. And if played whether they will take care of the ball. At the Slot/RB hybrid, we have Wood, GAIII, Riddick, Toma all as capable operatives with Carlisle coming. [Neal and Russell too ... and Mahone]. If one ignored the four last names [something that a lot of people don't want to do] then Coach can get the first four in for a lot of shared touches. It would be a highly desirable two-deep situation and a primary striking force in our attack. I see no indication that Kelly has anything other than this in mind. The only puzzle still to me is whether he will also attempt to wedge in Carlisle some there. The three frosh may be best served redshirting no matter how talented, unless Neal returns kicks.

              There is no issue that I see about Kelly not adjusting. We have NO offensive problems except THE BIG ONE --- QB ball security. Lord, if we just had ONE low-turnover QB who could throw with a little accuracy, this Rolls would roll for 40 a game ... and players like GAIII would get plenty of field time.
              Those are system adjustments, neither of which have anything to do with Golson or Atkinson III, who were the focal point of my post. Since Atkinson III never played the slot yesterday, it gives me pause that he won't be as much of a focus in the offense as I hope he is. If he had played the slot, and gotten touches out of the slot, that would have been different. But he didn't. Golson's strength is his athleticism. The system needs to be able to embrace that. An athletic QB who is also an accurate passer is one of the most dangerous weapons on the field, particularly when things break down and he improvises.

              As for the combo/slotRB position. One big play came out of the slot yesterday, the TD pass to Riddick. That play only confirmed my assessment of Riddick: He's got good quickness, but average straight ahead speed. He barely beat LB Joe Schmidt, who slipped when he turned and ran with Riddick as well. Ridddick will be serviceable for "Rocket Screens". He's not a player that's going to put the fear of God into any Defensive Coordinator. He's run reverses out of the slot for two years and done nothing that says he's special. I don't see that changing.

              I've seen enough of Toma to know that he's not much of a weapon. He did nothing yesterday, which didn't surprise me.

              I'm not going to get into the incoming freshmen. I've learned over the years that there is often a gap between their hype and their performance. Once I see them, I'll comment on them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Toma's main attribute is that he is a reliable catcher of the football and seems to be a good route runner. He isn't a game breaker, but you need both things. On third and five its nice to have someone you can trust to get open and make the catch.

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. QB

                  2. 2nd CB

                  Those two are the problems I feel the most worried about. Still can't forget guys like Neal, Badger, Shumate, Mahone, etc.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rhode Irish View Post
                    Toma's main attribute is that he is a reliable catcher of the football and seems to be a good route runner. He isn't a game breaker, but you need both things. On third and five its nice to have someone you can trust to get open and make the catch.
                    That's true against Purdue and Army. Against USC and Oklahoma "good route runner" is not enough. If he'd shown anytime in his career that he's Fred Belitnikoff Jr. against top competition I'd be more amenable to your line of thought. He hasn't. Unless he's made a big leap in his speed, quickness and athleticism, I don't see anything changing. It didn't apear that he has from watching him yesterday.

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                    • #11
                      I have fully backed Kelly so far, and I don't plan to change that. I think you guys are being very fare in your thoughts. Kelly must get the playmakers ready. Golson needs to get started asap in preparing for the fall because we need him. I was at the game yesterday, and liked how golson, hendrix, and kiel could extend the play. This is where tommy lacks as everyone knows, and thats a crucial need for this offense. I think it has been said that we are starting from scratch with the qb situation. I think Kelly needs to focus on the guys that can run his system the way he intended it instead of improvising with tommy who physically is incapable in this style of offense. I'm trying to be nice in saying tommy should probably transfer....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        With the infusion of Carlisle and Neal into the Slot/RB position. We are in very very good shape there. George will see a lot of the field if he can prove that he can take of the ball. George knows he needs to improve in that area, and look determine to do so. Same thing with Golson, he knows exactly what he needs to improve on.
                        Kelly clearly challenged both of them to improve to their full potential in the post game interviews. He's no foul, he knows both these guys can be special.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Patulski View Post
                          That's true against Purdue and Army. Against USC and Oklahoma "good route runner" is not enough. If he'd shown anytime in his career that he's Fred Belitnikoff Jr. against top competition I'd be more amenable to your line of thought. He hasn't. Unless he's made a big leap in his speed, quickness and athleticism, I don't see anything changing. It didn't apear that he has from watching him yesterday.
                          i think you can blame that more on the QB than on Toma

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                          • #14
                            GA3 needs to see a lot of the ball. Returns, catches, runs.. He is going to special when he leaves ND.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NDhoosier View Post
                              i think you can blame that more on the QB than on Toma
                              So, lets assume the QB's recognize Toma's great route running and get him the ball. What's your prediction then for how many catches he'll have?

                              I think he'll play behind Riddick (and possibly one of the newcomers) like he did last year, and be a small contributor in 2012 unless there's injury problems.
                              Last edited by Patulski; 04-22-2012, 12:03 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Patulski View Post
                                That's true against Purdue and Army. Against USC and Oklahoma "good route runner" is not enough. If he'd shown anytime in his career that he's Fred Belitnikoff Jr. against top competition I'd be more amenable to your line of thought. He hasn't. Unless he's made a big leap in his speed, quickness and athleticism, I don't see anything changing. It didn't apear that he has from watching him yesterday.
                                I'm not sure I'm getting your point. You don't need guys that are sure handed against good teams? He isn't your #1 WR, or a big play threat. You probably wouldn't want a whole team full of Tomas (or even Wes Welkers, for that matter), but guys that can find holes in the defense and catch the ball are valuable regardless of who you're playing, and probably more valuable against good teams where you need to possess the ball and move the chains rather than just chuck it down field like you can against Purdue and Army. You don't need an abundance of speed or quickness to run five yards down the field, find an open area of the field and catch the ball when it is thrown to you.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by aubeirish View Post
                                  Kelly clearly challenged both of them to improve to their full potential in the post game interviews. He's no foul, he knows both these guys can be special.
                                  Yes. Kelly regularly calls out his most talented players in media interviews. Did it with Floyd in his first year. Did it with half the team after the USC game last year. Has done it this spring at various times with Ishaq, Nix, Golson and now George A.
                                  For better or worse, I think he does it as a motivational tactic (Why else? He doesn't talk this way about Zeke Motta. Or for that matter Tommy Rees.) I realize this can backfire, or make him look to us on the outside like a finger-pointing jerk, but so far the results are pretty decent. I like to think he knows what he's doing.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by stlnd01 View Post
                                    Yes. Kelly regularly calls out his most talented players in media interviews. Did it with Floyd in his first year. Did it with half the team after the USC game last year. Has done it this spring at various times with Ishaq, Nix, Golson and now George A.
                                    For better or worse, I think he does it as a motivational tactic (Why else? He doesn't talk this way about Zeke Motta. Or for that matter Tommy Rees.) I realize this can backfire, or make him look to us on the outside like a finger-pointing jerk, but so far the results are pretty decent. I like to think he knows what he's doing.
                                    There is always a chance it backfires, but this is Notre Dame. The pressure is very high on these kids and they should be able to handle it. Otherwise, it's a tough environment for success. Most of the coaches do it anyways. Because we are Notre Dame, every word the coach says is under the microscope and overblown by millions. As far as what he said yesterday. There was absolutely nothing wrong there. He said what we all saw. These kids are special, but need to work on the little things in order to become great and consistent performers. Also, I think Kelly knows who to pick on and who not to. Some kids respond well to it, others not so much. I remember him talking about that in an interview last year. Therefore, he must believe that with these 2 it will motivate them to become better.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Patulski View Post
                                      I can't control what Brian Kelly says, but he has two athletic dynamic players in Golson and Atkinson III. It is his job to get them on the field and be productive by their sophomore seasons. Ara did it with Hanratty and Seymour. Lou did it with Ricky Watters and Rocket (who was a true freshman). There are many more sophomores that I could name from those eras as well.

                                      If Kelly has greatness in him, he'll be able to do it with Golson and Atkinson III. Jamoris Slaughter compared Atkinson III to Adrian Peterson. Getting him to hold onto the football, or at least minimize his turnovers should be doable. If Atkinson III sits behind Wood and Riddick because Kelly's system can't get him on the filed, something is wrong. If Kelly's signal calls from the bench are hindering Golson, he should simplify them. For whatever aspects of "the system" Golson can't fully embrace, he makes up for in athleticism. Kelly's system shouldn't strangle Golson's ability to improvise, which is one of his main qualities, consistent with all athletic QB's.

                                      Kelly needs to get both players on the field this fall. If he can't, it will be a big red flag imo.
                                      For the most part I agree with these statements. Kelly has to find a way to get these athletes on the field in packages that they can flourish in, but they must also find a way to secure the football.
                                      Maybe it's far too soon to tell.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Michael Floyd had 100 of the 302 total receptions by ND players last year. Where are those going to this year? I would predict they will and are able to run the ball more this year. So lets say there is only 80 receptions to replace this coming fall, I will predict Toma will have 20 of those. Add these 20 to his total of 19 from last year and that is 49. Not to mention he may get some carries out of the backfield. Not bad for a throw in player with Manti. Just an opinion.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by scUM Hater View Post
                                          Michael Floyd had 100 of the 302 total receptions by ND players last year. Where are those going to this year? I would predict they will and are able to run the ball more this year. So lets say there is only 80 receptions to replace this coming fall, I will predict Toma will have 20 of those. Add these 20 to his total of 19 from last year and that is 49. Not to mention he may get some carries out of the backfield. Not bad for a throw in player with Manti. Just an opinion.
                                          lol, just lookin to help you out brother.. I think he gets somewhere close to 40 though, I can see that
                                          Any other man stops and talks, but the walking man walks

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Toma is to ND as Waddle was to the Bears. Mess with Toma and you get the Teo!

                                            Patulski, you just made the "list"-haha!
                                            I have invested everything BUT tuition for Notre Dame. I make no apologies.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by Patulski View Post
                                              That's true against Purdue and Army. Against USC and Oklahoma "good route runner" is not enough. If he'd shown anytime in his career that he's Fred Belitnikoff Jr. against top competition I'd be more amenable to your line of thought. He hasn't. Unless he's made a big leap in his speed, quickness and athleticism, I don't see anything changing. It didn't apear that he has from watching him yesterday.
                                              He's even MORE important, against teams like USC and Oklahoma. The guy that consistently gets open 6 yards downfield, on 3rd and 5, and makes the catch, is the guy that sustains drives. He keeps the defense rested, he can help turn field position, and he can demoralize a defense. THAT'S what we need, in those games.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                I completely agree with changing up the scheme to suit the players. I personally don't think Tim Tebow is a good QB, but John Fox and the Broncos overhauled their offense to suit his unique capabilities and look where it got them.

                                                There's got to be a way to concoct a scheme to suit all of our strengths. Maybe a run-based spread in the vein of Oregon (GAIII can be our De'Anthony Thomas) with multiple-tight-end sets?

                                                Lastly, Golson please. If Tommy starts again, you know who the heart attack victim in the student section will be...

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                                                • #25
                                                  So we really needed another QB thread?
                                                  Originally posted by koonja
                                                  I'm making peace with Woolly in 2017.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26
                                                    I really support BK, but he needs to develop this talent rather than watch it fumble..
                                                    "You'll never get ahead of anyone as long as you try to get even with him."

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                                                    • #27
                                                      not just a qb thread it was meant to address the fact that he calls Golson and GAIII heart attacks. The point was to say that he needs to work hard enough with them to get them where they can play.
                                                      God Country Notre Dame
                                                      http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...andeverett.jpg

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        Originally posted by scUM Hater View Post
                                                        Michael Floyd had 100 of the 302 total receptions by ND players last year. Where are those going to this year? I would predict they will and are able to run the ball more this year. So lets say there is only 80 receptions to replace this coming fall, I will predict Toma will have 20 of those. Add these 20 to his total of 19 from last year and that is 49. Not to mention he may get some carries out of the backfield. Not bad for a throw in player with Manti. Just an opinion.
                                                        I love your math. You're an accountant, right! j/k, any "scUM Hater" is alright by me. I too see Toma being a bit more of a contributor (possibly 40 catches or so), primarily based on how he performed near the end of last season. I think that will transcend into more productivity/contribution from the start of and on throughout the whole upcoming season.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Originally posted by scUM Hater View Post
                                                          Michael Floyd had 100 of the 302 total receptions by ND players last year. Where are those going to this year? I would predict they will and are able to run the ball more this year.....
                                                          I hope your prediction comes to fruition. Your point regarding how we replace Floyd's production is an excellent one. It may become a barometer of how our offense will play next year. From what I saw @QB and @WR, we would have to throw the ball at least three times more to get the same amount of production...with the potential of committing three times more turnovers.

                                                          With our OL and the quartet of RBs, it would be a waste not to run the ball more consistently.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Originally posted by ryno 24 View Post
                                                            not just a qb thread it was meant to address the fact that he calls Golson and GAIII heart attacks. The point was to say that he needs to work hard enough with them to get them where they can play.
                                                            Then put it into one of the billion spring game threads. It's getting tough to follow a conversation when there are this many threads all talking about the same stuff.
                                                            Originally posted by koonja
                                                            I'm making peace with Woolly in 2017.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Too much to keep up with, we need help!

                                                              <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O3ZOKDmorj0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
                                                              Admit it. You looked at the avatar first.

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