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  • Herbstreit on ND

    South Bend Tribune: Notre Dame football: Irish need dominance on defense

    Most here seem to view Herbstreit as one of the better if not the best analyst on college football, so I thought I would post this article. It's a pretty good read.

    “When I look at their team, I see an offense that doesn't take a back seat to anybody in the country. Their skill set is as good as you're going to find. But when I look at their defense, I don't see the same athleticism I do when I look Alabama, Texas, Florida and LSU. They need an abundance of Manti Te'os.

    “I'm not saying they can't put together a good defense with what they have. I'm just saying it's much tougher to do so. Right now it appears they're trying to do it with smoke and mirrors. It's more about personnel than it is about scheme.”

    “I still think if they win out, they could get into the top 14 and get in the BCS,” he said. “That may be wishful thinking, and they're going to need some help. But if Stanford wins over the next couple of weeks (against USC and Cal), that's another big game that gives them an opportunity to move up.
    “I would think as the program grows around Charlie, there would be fewer peaks and valleys around him and more stability with recruiting. This is not as good as it gets for Notre Dame. The offense doesn't have to apologize for anything. They're outstanding. I think the challenge for their staff is to get better on the defensive side of the ball.

    They might fall off to eight (wins) in a rebuilding year. And that's OK. It's part of the process. You're going to have a year like that, but to be an elite program, I think you have to avoid the valleys. You can't go from 12 to 5 or 11 to 6. If they continue to recruit, I very much think this staff can get to that point

  • #2
    pretty straight forward, i like him
    as well as lee corso on the college gameday for humor alone.

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    • #3
      Our offense is not outstanding. I love the passing game, though the jump balls get stale. Our run game is mediocre. The talent of Clausen, Tate, Floyd, and Rudolph makes the offense go. It is not a balanced offense though. I don't know how to describe it, but it seems like our offense lacks a personality at times. Weis tries to do too much maybe?
      2013 IE College Fantasy Football Champion

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      • #4
        I have nothing but respect for Herbie. He's smart but more importantly (& what seems to be missing in sports media these days) hes unbiased. He shoots it straight & doesn't cloud it with personal opinions. May is just as intelligent of a football mind (dont care what you say or how much you hate him, nobody does their homework like May) but cant get past his emotions to betaken seriously. It's a shame really.

        There was ex-coach on First Take this morning (forget who it was) that pointed out that we avg 175 yds rushing per game expect in 2 of our losses when we were held to less than 65 or something. He picked us to win but stated the running game has to be part of the equation.

        Do I hear I call to start Riddick?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by devolg View Post
          I have nothing but respect for Herbie. He's smart but more importantly (& what seems to be missing in sports media these days) hes unbiased. He shoots it straight & doesn't cloud it with personal opinions. May is just as intelligent of a football mind (dont care what you say or how much you hate him, nobody does their homework like May) but cant get past his emotions to betaken seriously. It's a shame really.

          There was ex-coach on First Take this morning (forget who it was) that pointed out that we avg 175 yds rushing per game expect in 2 of our losses when we were held to less than 65 or something. He picked us to win but stated the running game has to be part of the equation.

          Do I hear I call to start Riddick?
          Hell yes to Riddick, I like AA as he is good all around but I only like Hughes on bad weather days.

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          • #6
            He was just asked who he thought would win on ESPN, and did not give an answer because he is calling the game tonight. Of all the ABC play by play I like him the most. I am really looking forward to a well called game.

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            • #7
              I've always liked Herbie and don't really know to many people who dislike him. The thing I respect about him is that even when he is saying something negative about your team you can tell that it's just an honest evaluation and not him being a hater.

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              • #8
                Yea I really like Herbstreit even when it comes to Ohio State hes not biased and picks the game fairly

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                • #9
                  Bring him to NBC and get rid of the ASS Bag's !!
                  "Show me a good and gracious loser and I'll show you a failure."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by IrishChris209 View Post
                    Bring him to NBC and get rid of the ASS Bag's !!
                    here, here

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Junkhead View Post
                      Our offense is not outstanding. I love the passing game, though the jump balls get stale. Our run game is mediocre. The talent of Clausen, Tate, Floyd, and Rudolph makes the offense go. It is not a balanced offense though. I don't know how to describe it, but it seems like our offense lacks a personality at times. Weis tries to do too much maybe?
                      I'd call the #6 offense, in total offense, pretty outstanding. The run game is mediocre, I will grant you that. But it's not like the offense is one-dimensional. If it were, it wouldn't be all that hard to shut it down. I think Weis has promised these kids that he will prepare them for the NFL. So he is running all kinds of stuff, to get them experience in running the routes, the blocking schemes, the rushing plays that NFL teams like to run. Very few college football offenses are truly balanced. This isn't the NFL, where you have guys that either were, or potentially could have been, All Americans, at every position. I guess that Lou's offenses weren't all that special, either, since it was the talent of Rice, Mirer, Bettis, Brooks(x2, both Reggie and Tony), Culver, Denson, Watters, and Fisher that made them go?

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                      • #12
                        Herb is a extremely fair and unbiased commentator. And he is right, the longer Weis is there the less peaks and valleys we will go through. We as fans are probably ND worst enemy, we want to fire coaches as soon as there is a bad game or season. Just my opinion.
                        Though I be the lone survivor...
                        IRISH RANGER

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                        • #13
                          irishranger i couldnt agree with you more...i think herb gives a very fair evaluation...but more than that i think hes trying to tell nd fans to be careful what they ask for (firing weis), they just might get it...lets remember he's learning on the job and doing a fantastic recruiting job and if we get rid of him were stating over loosing many good recruits and current players...were going to have to be patient and live through the valleys and not just expect peaks every year until this program is established again...has he done a great job...no...will he? i believe he will...he loves nd and is not using this job to get to the nfl or wherever - he is nd to the bones...this getting rid of him talk is every week on tv promotions and does nothing but add more pressure to him and his staff and players...they need to relax and have fun...if we can get the athletic ability on the defensive side of the ball as we have on the offensive side (this is called recruiting and cant be completely rebuilt in just a year or two) then there is no doubt its a program with NC capabilities...but as of now we dont have the defensive players to compete with the elite programs and if we can show some continuity to the recruits then i believe that will come as well and the players wont have to worry about whos gonna be their coach next year and just have fun...think players at florida and alabama worry about that if they loose a game? think recruits do? hell no they go to have fun and win...if we're patient they (recruits) will feel that way at nd too...as for the comments about our running game, i think its just under used and is not bad at all...we could have driven the ball down pitts throats if we didnt have to play catch-up due to our defense...its hard to committ to the run with such pass greats, but that doesnt make it (the running game) bad or mediocre...i love nd and i want us to stay patient and in 10 years when we are winning nc's again with charlie, no one will even remember these past three seasons
                          buy a vw passat

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by choo choo View Post
                            if we get rid of him were stating over loosing many good recruits and current players...were going to have to be patient and live through the valleys and not just expect peaks every year until this program is established again\
                            this whole refrain of having to start all over, rebuilding, and losing recruits is ludicrous. there are examples throughout the college football coaching landscape over the years of coaches making immediate impacts, especially at high profile schools.

                            there are plenty of top notch recruits who will come to ND if they see a coach who is a proven winner being hired. someone like brian kelly will have no trouble bringing in top talent immediately and he would beat teams like Pitt, Mich, Navy, and USC this year with the players currently available on this team.

                            weis needed 5 years to "build" this program into a likely 7-5 team (7-6 after the bowl, same as last year). if clausen and tate leave (which i think they will) then weis's head coaching shortcomings will be exposed next year and it could be even worse.

                            looking at next years schedule, any competent coach should be looking at a 9-3 record, even with Crist at QB.

                            PURDUE
                            Mich
                            at Michigan State
                            STANFORD
                            at Boston College
                            PITTSBURGH
                            WESTERN MICHIGAN
                            Navy (E. Rutherford, NJ)
                            TULSA
                            UTAH
                            Army (at Bronx, NY)
                            at USC

                            this is a putrid schedule and most of those teams will have decidedly less talent than ND, but Weis will find a way to lose to a couple of those teams besides USC, Pitt, and Stanford. you know he will. it has been his trademark. no need to prolong the weis experiment into 7-5 or 8-4 record next year. the expectation before the navy game was a BCS bowl. it was a reasonable expectation and the team came out very flat the next two weeks.

                            making a good hire will not set the program back because it already isnt where it should be based on the current roster. wasting next season waiting for weis to "develop" the program will simply be a year lost.
                            Last edited by dskoo65; 11-15-2009, 08:21 AM.

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                            • #15
                              5 years and still learning on the job? NEXT.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by dskoo65 View Post
                                this whole refrain of having to start all over, rebuilding, and losing recruits is ludicrous. there are examples throughout the college football coaching landscape over the years of coaches making immediate impacts, especially at high profile schools.

                                there are plenty of top notch recruits who will come to ND if they see a coach who is a proven winner being hired. someone like brian kelly will have no trouble bringing in top talent immediately and he would beat teams like Pitt, Mich, Navy, and USC this year with the players currently available on this team.

                                weis needed 5 years to "build" this program into a likely 7-5 team (7-6 after the bowl, same as last year). if clausen and tate leave (which i think they will) then weis's head coaching shortcomings will be exposed next year and it could be even worse.

                                looking at next years schedule, any competent coach should be looking at a 9-3 record, even with Crist at QB.

                                PURDUE
                                Mich
                                at Michigan State
                                STANFORD
                                at Boston College
                                PITTSBURGH
                                WESTERN MICHIGAN
                                Navy (E. Rutherford, NJ)
                                TULSA
                                UTAH
                                Army (at Bronx, NY)
                                at USC

                                this is a putrid schedule and most of those teams will have decidedly less talent than ND, but Weis will find a way to lose to a couple of those teams besides USC, Pitt, and Stanford. you know he will. it has been his trademark. no need to prolong the weis experiment into 7-5 or 8-4 record next year. the expectation before the navy game was a BCS bowl. it was a reasonable expectation and the team came out very flat the next two weeks.

                                making a good hire will not set the program back because it already isnt where it should be based on the current roster. wasting next season waiting for weis to "develop" the program will simply be a year lost.
                                A fine post, and you're exactly right. All the Weis ballwashers continue to cite the "fact" that we'll be 'starting over' once there is a coaching change. Thats not true. Davie wasn't a 'start over', he was just a middling coach. Not great, not bad. Willingham is what really drove things to shit. What he 'did' at Washington is EXACTLY what we would have gotten here had we not pulled the plug early on that train wreck. Charlie literally had to reboot the program because of what Willingham did. I give him great credit for that, but the next coach gets a pretty good base to work with, so it will NOT be a 'start over' for a good coach - it will be a building on a solid base that Charlie built, and plateaued at.

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                                • #17
                                  and in a worst case scenario... we could end up loosing most of the close games.
                                  PURDUE - close
                                  Mich - close
                                  at Michigan State - close
                                  STANFORD - lost
                                  at Boston College - close
                                  PITTSBURGH - lost
                                  WESTERN MICHIGAN - win
                                  Navy (E. Rutherford, NJ) - close
                                  TULSA - win
                                  UTAH - close
                                  Army (at Bronx, NY) - win
                                  at USC - lost

                                  9-3 to 3-9 we really need a lot of signature wins instead of close games.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ShamrockOnHelmet View Post
                                    A fine post, and you're exactly right. All the Weis ballwashers continue to cite the "fact" that we'll be 'starting over' once there is a coaching change. Thats not true. Davie wasn't a 'start over', he was just a middling coach. Not great, not bad. Willingham is what really drove things to shit. What he 'did' at Washington is EXACTLY what we would have gotten here had we not pulled the plug early on that train wreck. Charlie literally had to reboot the program because of what Willingham did. I give him great credit for that, but the next coach gets a pretty good base to work with, so it will NOT be a 'start over' for a good coach - it will be a building on a solid base that Charlie built, and plateaued at.
                                    Ummm, didnt charlie have his best two years with Ty's recruits? Pretty sure once we got all of charlies recruits in we went 3-9. How does this translate into it being Ty's fault for the downslide? Look at the stats charlie has the same win % as Ty and Davies.
                                    Never play leap frog with unicorns.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by ND4EVA View Post
                                      Ummm, didnt charlie have his best two years with Ty's recruits? Pretty sure once we got all of charlies recruits in we went 3-9. How does this translate into it being Ty's fault for the downslide? Look at the stats charlie has the same win % as Ty and Davies.
                                      Ty didn't do jack with his recruits and Charlie was able to maximize what they could do. Ty lefto ND with NO depth and you can see fromwhat has happened to ND this without depth in football you are in big trouble. In 2007 the Junriors and seniors were Ty's last class and we had very little talent and freshman like Tate, Allen, Kamara and Clausen. Good players but essentially high school kids. Could Charlie have done a better job in 2007 and won at least 2 more games and been more competitive? HELL YES. I think it is BS that CW is learning to be a head coach while eing the second highest paid coach in CFB. IF anyone should be turning some of their salary back to the company it would be CW in 07,08 & 09. At least he is set for life but I don't expect junior to get a free ride into ND.

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                                      • #20
                                        ...I just can't believe that Charlie Weis has a 10 year contract and he's only in the 4th year of that contract and his record in bowl games 1-2.
                                        Look, tearing your ACL on the sideline, being overweight, having snot run down your nose and spittle in the corners of your mouth, might be acceptable at the pop warner level, but your the ND Head Coach.

                                        Get yourself together Charlie Weis, clean yourself up and clean up your football program...
                                        “Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated.”

                                        “Ask people over the last 20 years who has won the most Commander-in-Chief's Trophies. Tradition always is under construction. People don't look at what happened in the 1940s. They look at what's happening today.”

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                                        • #21
                                          SD

                                          Settle down. I here you talk of immediate impacts at top notch schools around the nation. Well, WE ARE ND AND THEY ARE NOT. We cannot get the same kids nor do we want the same TYPE of kids at our school. Being the head coach at ND is different. Remember U. Meyer was offered the job turned it down after a 4 hr. conversation with Bob Davie. Flat out said he couldn't get it done under the circumstances. You fire Charlie, you better be ready to suffer far worse than what you see now. These kids he is recruiting are far more talented that even those Lou was getting. Don't believe - watch around the NFL in the coming years. We will have more in than we have had in the past 25 yrs. So, yeah. He's learning to be the coach of student-athletes at ND not inherit athletes down south or out west. By the way he followed TY. Yeah TY. Still don't shink he was the worst thing that ever happened to us. Watch Washington's program next year & the year after. The message boards are filled with the notion that hey don't have any 'O' or 'D' line recruits. it will be 2006, 2007 all over again. If Charlie goes so does Clausen & Tate.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by Butchie View Post
                                            You fire Charlie, you better be ready to suffer far worse than what you see now. These kids he is recruiting are far more talented that even those Lou was getting. Don't believe - watch around the NFL in the coming years. .
                                            well, you just indicted coach weis big time. (even though if you look at the nfl success of players holtz brought in, these statements have little merit)

                                            if you really believe that, then weis has got to be underachieveing in a big way, right?

                                            there are plenty of coaches who will bring in top talent at ND....and then be able to actually coach them to victories over meaningful teams.

                                            believing clausen and tate staying or leaving are tied to weis's fate is naive at best. projected draft status and money will be their true guide. clausen will be drafted high next year. he will not risk that to injury in his senior year. he is gone. tate will get enough positive feedback on his draft status abd will be gone as well.
                                            Last edited by dskoo65; 11-16-2009, 07:10 AM.

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                                            • #23
                                              Oh my GOD, you guys are making me sick, Charlie is the coach, he is not fumbling, not throwing dumb ass iterceptions...and not getting runn over all night, i.e. Sam Young...If you could have stopped 97 10 times against Pitt, we would be singing praises....People like you negative assholes on here are whats killing our team, getting into the players head, ruining everything....I wonder if everyone is saying Pete Carrol is done, cause they look like shit...
                                              HELL NO TO BRIAN KELLY!!!!!!!!!!

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                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by PUREBREEDIRISH View Post
                                                Oh my GOD, you guys are making me sick, Charlie is the coach, he is not fumbling, not throwing dumb ass iterceptions...and not getting runn over all night, i.e. Sam Young...If you could have stopped 97 10 times against Pitt, we would be singing praises....shit...
                                                ...and who is it that decided to keep Young on the field??

                                                in college, the way players play, how hard they play, and how prepared they are to come out with intensity (see: first half against navy and pitt) has much to do with the motivational techniques of the head coach. it is one of the big differences between the roles of head coaches in college versus the nfl.

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                                                • #25
                                                  Who else is he gonna put in...You telling me that he can block all year and all of a sudden Pitt has super talent on the field and he can't handle it, Young is the best we have!!! Maybe it's because all week all they have heard is their coach is gone.....Maybe it's finally affecting them..
                                                  HELL NO TO BRIAN KELLY!!!!!!!!!!

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                                                  • #26
                                                    Many great points have been brought up by all. This year unfortunately is very confusing to me. Yes I understand we SHOULD be better in most eyes but i also look at it as we could really be sitting with 2-4 wins right now.

                                                    Confused Pt #1: I have a real problem with the stupid plays the players seem to make. A personal foul in the beginning on the game to keep Pitt's drive alive. Wenger's crop block baffles me, I sat there speechless and said 'there goes the game'. Not just the Pitt game too but other games we make some real dumb plays.

                                                    #2: I really don't think any coach could prepare for just how out of sorts and poor Harrison was going to play (the secondary in general). At first people thought it was just an adjustment, it wasn't I don't know what happened but it hurt us for a few games. Is Tenuta a swing and a miss for Charlie or is it something more.

                                                    On a side note in particular I think that Sergio and Brian Smith are high energy players only for the big play (third and fourth downs) not every down players. They are "make a big hit" and fire the team up type guys to me but not consistent at all. Just my opinion.
                                                    Last edited by Big23Head; 11-16-2009, 10:17 AM.

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                                                    • #27
                                                      Herbstreit knows a lot more than all of us, I know a lot of you can't wait to boot Charlie out the door, but no matter who they hire it will be a step back. We will lose recruits and current players and will have to rebuild....AGAIN. I personally think we could do great things w/ Charlie if we give him more time.
                                                      My hero, the one, the only, Brian Scalabrine

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                                                      • #28
                                                        Originally posted by fitz_bu47 View Post
                                                        Herbstreit knows a lot more than all of us, I know a lot of you can't wait to boot Charlie out the door, but no matter who they hire it will be a step back. We will lose recruits and current players and will have to rebuild....AGAIN. I personally think we could do great things w/ Charlie if we give him more time.
                                                        Stop with this notion that recruits just all disappear. Maybe you lose 3 -5 guys, maybe you gain back 3-5 who werent on the radar. This is so overblown. Oh no we may lose some high school students. Oh no!!!

                                                        If they werent at ND for ND then get out. You dont commit to Weis, you commit to ND. Im sick of these recruitnicks who follow this stuff like theyre collecting stamps.

                                                        Boise, TCU, Stanford, Pitt, Iowa, Cincinatti etc etc - all down the list doesnt have this nice pile of studly 4 star guys like ND and they would whip our asses like nobodies business so stop with this recruit garbage.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Originally posted by Big23Head View Post
                                                          Many great points have been brought up by all. This year unfortunately is very confusing to me. Yes I understand we SHOULD be better in most eyes but i also look at it as we could really be sitting with 2-4 wins right now.

                                                          Confused Pt #1: I have a real problem with the stupid plays the players seem to make. A personal foul in the beginning on the game to keep Pitt's drive alive. Wenger's crop block baffles me, I sat there speechless and said 'there goes the game'. Not just the Pitt game too but other games we make some real dumb plays.

                                                          #2: I really don't think any coach could prepare for just how out of sorts and poor Harrison was going to play (the secondary in general). At first people thought it was just an adjustment, it wasn't I don't know what happened but it hurt us for a few games. Is Tenuta a swing and a miss for Charlie or is it something more.

                                                          On a side note in particular I think that Sergio and Brian Smith are high energy players only for the big play (third and fourth downs) not every down players. They are "make a big hit" and fire the team up type guys to me but not consistent at all. Just my opinion.

                                                          Very good post especially about Sergio and Brian. They tend to make the highlight reel types of plays but only a couple a game. They miss more tackles than they make big plays. I like them but they need to work on their fundamentals.

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