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  • Part of the crowd issue is the small enrollment at ND. Most other big time football programs have a MUCH larger student population that fills a bigger percentage of the stadium. ND has to sell more tickets to fans/alumni than those large state schools. Imagine the stadium atmosphere if there were another 5,000 students filling seats.

    Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

    Very frustrating game to watch. That first interception was a real killer. The play call was perfect and Austin was wide open in the back of the end zone.

    Giving Cincy the head start from the turnovers was the game.

    I am getting very concerned about TB12 and his throwing capabilities. The only decent pass we have seen from him so far this season was the flip to Tyree that resulted in a TD. He has been shaky at best on all his other throws and the lack of giving him opportunities to throw says something as well.

    Loved seeing the frosh receivers get some playing time and passes thrown their direction. That is very encouraging.

    Congrats to Cincy - this was the biggest win in program history. Too bad the selection committee will find some way of keeping them out of the playoffs...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NDohio View Post
      Part of the crowd issue is the small enrollment at ND. Most other big time football programs have a MUCH larger student population that fills a bigger percentage of the stadium. ND has to sell more tickets to fans/alumni than those large state schools. Imagine the stadium atmosphere if there were another 5,000 students filling seats.

      Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

      Very frustrating game to watch. That first interception was a real killer. The play call was perfect and Austin was wide open in the back of the end zone.

      Giving Cincy the head start from the turnovers was the game.

      I am getting very concerned about TB12 and his throwing capabilities. The only decent pass we have seen from him so far this season was the flip to Tyree that resulted in a TD. He has been shaky at best on all his other throws and the lack of giving him opportunities to throw says something as well.

      Loved seeing the frosh receivers get some playing time and passes thrown their direction. That is very encouraging.

      Congrats to Cincy - this was the biggest win in program history. Too bad the selection committee will find some way of keeping them out of the playoffs...
      Agree w/ most of your post. The rest of Cincy’s schedule is trash so if ND continues to struggle on offense, that win won’t be nearly as impressive as they think it is now.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

        This is almost 90% of where I am at. The other 10% wonders why we have a 3 QB system in year 12 of BK. Cant reconcile the two though.
        This. I think a lot of BKs success has been stability. Stability in that he’s been here for a long time. What does BK really bring to the table though? We all know he doesn’t recruit. In regard to the QBs, his player player development and even player evaluation is subpar at best. If I knew much more about football maybe i could make that argument for other positions as well. I find my self asking myself “why isn’t player X getting more reps” every season and it goes beyond the QB position. Is he a good Xs and Os guy? Is he a good motivator? If BK had a Madden rating what is his thing?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post

          Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

          Personally, I'm very happy with the state of the program. That was a winnable game vs a top 10 team in a year we knew we were going to be "down". I see no need for freaking out personally, but to each their own.

          All that said, doesnt mean there arent issues to fix. Very unlikely issues ever get fixed in season. You do your best to mask them then address in offseason. If were "masking" our issues to the tune of competing with top 10 teams, again, I'm ok.
          I agree for the most part and have been here for a while... I'm 'happy' overall but am also willing to try for that final step to a natty... I am pretty worried about the next 13 plus months, however... I see a lot of losable games.
          This sig will not change until The Browns win the Super Bowl... So get real used to it.

          Comment


          • Here's the post-Cinci Rakes Report:

            1) If you want to live on the knife’s edge with a rickety offense and defense that hasn’t totally patched up the passing explosiveness holes from last year, you absolutely can’t turn it over three times in the first half and stake your more-than-capable opponent to a lead. If you’re going to try and rotate quarterbacks, you can’t misread the situation this badly, waiting until the second half to play the guy who was best last week (and then pulling him for one play in the middle of his first successful drive for some reason?). A profoundly frustrating game in which the Irish had a chance to notch another win over a Top 10 team, where you can point to a dozen different coaching decisions and player miscues as reasons for the loss. It’s tough to swallow and…actually kind of how this works a lot of the time when you lose, albeit on the extreme end of number of obvious things going wrong.

            The Irish haven’t lost many close games (this technically was not a one-score game but it was 17-13 in the fourth so we can call it close) of late, but generally in college football if you are losing you are either A) Getting blown to absolute hell B) Playing in some supremely annoying game where you can point to any number of things that if they had gone differently you could and perhaps would have won but fate had other ideas. (Occasionally you also get “Played well against a superior opponent and can hold your head high while the tears come,” but those are awful in their own way.) Notre Dame has been on the right side of the ledger so much more often than not you can forget how awful this feels and I have to say I am not a fan of this level of disappointment, the earliest the playoffs have gone poof since 2016. By three key advanced metrics (Don’t Lose, Don’t Let The Home Win Streak End and Certainly Don’t Give The Opposition Their Biggest Win In School History), Saturday was a failure. Whether the season is considered that or not is still very much up for grabs.

            2) One of the reasons Notre Dame won against Wisconsin is because they had Kevin Austin and Chris Tyree, a different caliber of skill player from the opposition capable of breaking a game. Against Cincinnati, both of them broke the game but in a bad way, with Tyree putting the Bearcats in position for a score and Austin failing to come through on some big targets. On the plus side, Kyren Williams was a beast, as always, Michael Mayer powered through injury and Braden Lenzy finally was able to connect with a deep one after a season of being mistargeted or missed completely when he broke open. (Lenzy also climbed the ladder on a big conversion.) The coaching staff also turned to the true freshmen of Deion Colzie and Lorenzo Styles late and the youths came through, but it just adds to the murky offensive identity (or more accurately, lack thereof).

            Drew Pyne pretty clearly has to start going forward, and maybe that doesn’t work but you have to try it and go from there. (Negative one-thousand points to Tommy Rees for continuing to call plays that require a quarterback-run threat to fully unlock with Jack Coan in the game.) The concerning issue is we’re almost halfway through the season and we don’t really know what this team is good at on offense. In 2019 they could go to Ian Book-to-Chase Claypool, and in 2020 it was the run game behind a sweet offensive line and Tommy Tremble, but now it’s, what, trying to power the ball to Mayer or Avery Davis in the middle of the field before pressure gets through? Pyne seems like the best combination of knowing the full playbook (Coan) and some scrambling prowess (Tyler Buchner) and now it’s on Rees and company to maximize his abilities. Unfortunately for us, the better Pyne plays the more this game and the misappropriation of quarterback snaps against the Bearcats will sting, but unless anyone knows some sort of loophole to get a redo we’ll just have to live with that reality.

            Offensive line was…slightly better, maybe? Still not nearly good enough. There was some push early in the game up the middle, but whether it was performance or playcalling they couldn’t sustain it. Hopefully they can find something with Andrew Kristofic and Joe Alt getting more snaps, which all bodes well for next season but doesn’t help the problems for this year, and now whatever combination they use will have to deal with major crowd noise for the first time since Tallahassee. Also this isn’t offensive line specific but could have used a bit more urgency on those fourth quarter drives.

            (Considering Brian Kelly’s reputation as a curmudgeonly hard-ass, it’s interesting to note some of his biggest personnel misfires have been due to loyalty to an injured quarterback. Following Dayne Crist’s injury in 2010 and Malik Zaire’s in 2015, Kelly didn’t just hand the keys to the program over to their successful replacements but instead held competitions, decisions that helped lead to disappointing seasons. He didn’t want to move on from Coan after an injury and perhaps cost his team a win on Saturday.)

            (I wonder how much of the quarterback situation was the staff hoping that Coan could be a smooth one-season fix before transitioning to Buchner without too much of a spring derby. If Pyne is as good as we hope he can be, you’re looking at another messy competition in 2022. I also wonder if they just wanted to try and make sure Coan stuck the season out, because if he didn’t get the job and peaced out before four games a la Charley Brewer at Utah, the depth chart would have been Pyne, an injured Brendon Clark and two true freshmen. This is all rank speculation but just working through various theories that have popped up in my broken brain when the reality is probably just “Coan looked better in practice.”)

            (Also does everyone properly appreciate Ian Book now? He almost certainly wins that game, between his turnover minimization and ability to pull out just enough big plays.)

            3) The defense put Notre Dame in position to have an early lead again, with Cincinnati starting the game with drives of 15, 18, zero, 9, 12 and 18 yards. Desmond Ridder then started to get loose, continuing to target Clarence Lewis — after one lovely breakup deep — to much success. There are some real questions about the non-Kyle Hamilton and Cam Hart parts of the secondary, and even Hamilton got got on a touchdown Saturday. Monster play by Isaiah Foskey and Drew White to spark some life with the fumble, and Foskey has been what we had hoped this year despite a quiet camp. Unfortunately, when the Irish needed one last big stop after making it 17-13, J.D. Bertrand had his worst series of the year, getting worked over as Ridder iced things. This defense is really good but it’s not at a level where it can just carry a team on its own, particularly with the level of offenses the Irish are about to face elevating from the tepid September slate.

            Ridder is a fun college quarterback for a team with this type of defense: Inconsistent for stretches, but capable of uncorking just enough deep balls and hair-pulling scrambles over the course of the game to do the needed damage. He would be a nightmare to stop on NCAA Football and we begrudgingly tip our cap to his ability to come through with a couple of dagger drives at the end of both halves.

            4) Winning Is Hard/Schadenfreude Round-Up: I’ve preferred to do this only after Notre Dame wins, as obviously I do not have to remind you, the person who just watched your favorite team lose, about the difficulty of achieving victory. But this season is crazy thus far, this section is fun to write and people enjoy it I’m going to just do it in full the rest of the way. Talking about everyone else’s failures doesn’t excuse all the holes in this Irish team but it is nice to know that our misery has so much company.

            No. 3 Oregon went down early at Stanford, rallied back for the lead and then let David Shaw fade route them to death, eventually falling in overtime, so we reset the Days Since Mario Cristobal Did Something Disappointing Counter. The Irish and Ducks weren’t the only Top 10 teams to lose, as Arkansas got sent to the moon by Georgia and Florida fell as a road favorite in Lexington via basically one long Kentucky passing touchdown, a blocked field goal returned for a touchdown and a lengthy interception return. The Wildcats won with just 224 yards of offense, but Gator penalties (15 for 115 yards) proved too damaging.

            Did Texas A&M fall at home to Mississippi State as a touchdown favorite, already earning the second loss for what was a Top 5 team last year? Yes, but at least they don’t have to play Alabama next - ah I’m being told they play Alabama next. Speaking of the Tide, they gave Lane Kiffin and Ole Miss their first loss of the season in violent fashion. And while we’re on the SEC West, LSU lost at home to Bo Nix and Auburn. Is Coach O gonna get fired? Probably! Central Florida lost to Navy while Memphis lost to Temple. Northwestern lost to Nebraska 56-7.

            4-0 Maryland had an opportunity to take a step into the national spotlight hosting Top 5 Iowa at home but they were shattered into tiny pieces, their high-flying passing offense turning it over at a wild clip. Remember how exciting the UCLA and Fresno State game was and how they were both ranked? Well, they both lost, with UCLA getting handled at home by Herm Edwards’ Arizona State team and Fresno losing at Hawaii. Jimmy Lake’s tenure in Seattle took another hit as Washington lost to Oregon State. Clemson needed multiple botched snaps to survive at home against Boston College, and Oklahoma narrowly avoided another scare, this time against Kansas State. Wisconsin and Miami — the preseason No. 12 and No. 14 teams, respectively — already have their third losses. There are a lot of really, really disappointing teams and a slew of carnage still to come.

            5) It’s easy to discuss how good a team’s chemistry and culture is when they’re winning, as seldom do you see features talking about how strong the locker room is for a last-place squad. If Notre Dame’s program is what we think it is, then the big test comes on Saturday in not letting this disappointment carry over. The Irish have not lost consecutive regular season games since 2016, and coincidentally the last time they dropped a regular season contest at all the next team they played was the Hokies, albeit in South Bend. Between that last second escape by Book and embarrassing the hosts on Metallica Intro Night in 2018, Virginia Tech will be pining to get this one and smelling blood in the water off their bye week.

            Looking at SP+ and FEI, this is the toughest defense the Irish will play the rest of the way, and it’ll be in primetime in Lane Stadium, where North Carolina fell victim earlier this year. There are a few minor questions about the offense, including who will be quarterback, is Mayer healthy and will Austin be able to bounce back like he did after a poor performance against Purdue? On defense, mostly feel good, but did Ridder’s success put something on film that can be exploited by others and/or are the linebackers starting to wear down a bit with the limited depth? This coaching staff and the captains need to keep the wheels on for another week and get to the bye at 5-1.

            If you look to national media for your validation for a Notre Dame season, these next couple months aren’t going to be fun because the Irish are going to be well outside of the conversation save for people checking in on Cincinnati’s best win. (It is grimly funny that anyone who wants a Group of Five team to break the playoff status quo must now root for the Irish along with us. Welcome to this terrible club, friends!) With the unhinged chaos throughout the country this season even Notre Dame is capable of flying under the radar if they just string together some nice, boring, nondescript wins that keep them comfortably ranked and in New Year’s Six contention. It’s perfectly okay to take a slight step back when you lost as much talent as Notre Dame did after two playoff runs in three years, but the key word there is “slight.”

            Keeping the losses to a minimum continues on Saturday. Go Irish, Beat Hokies. Don’t let the Bearcats topple you twice.

            Comment


            • I had high expectations for Brian Kelly when he was hired because of his reputation as a guy who had developed quarterbacks at CMU and UC. Saturday came down to, at least for me, yet another display that Kelly's tenure at ND has had multiple disappointments at the position within the bigger picture.

              Having the rifleman behind center is what will likely lead you to a National Championship. I can't think of a five star kid in his right mind that would come to Notre Dame if the boy has any ambition to play football in the NFL.

              Give Pyne the first team reps and let him start. Only if he gets injured or suspended should anyone else take a meaningful snap for the rest of the season.
              It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

              Comment


              • Cincinnati definitely played with the eye of the tiger. They wanted it more. They were hungry.

                Comment


                • This is the only thing that makes any sense to me. BK knew Buchner wouldn't be ready this year to take the reigns. Hoped that Coan could bridge the gap because he knew that if Pyne started he would eventually have a problematic QB controversy when it was Buchner's time to take over.

                  Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
                  Here's the post-Cinci Rakes Report:

                  (I wonder how much of the quarterback situation was the staff hoping that Coan could be a smooth one-season fix before transitioning to Buchner without too much of a spring derby. If Pyne is as good as we hope he can be, you’re looking at another messy competition in 2022. I also wonder if they just wanted to try and make sure Coan stuck the season out, because if he didn’t get the job and peaced out before four games a la Charley Brewer at Utah, the depth chart would have been Pyne, an injured Brendon Clark and two true freshmen. This is all rank speculation but just working through various theories that have popped up in my broken brain when the reality is probably just “Coan looked better in practice.”)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NDohio View Post
                    Part of the crowd issue is the small enrollment at ND. Most other big time football programs have a MUCH larger student population that fills a bigger percentage of the stadium. ND has to sell more tickets to fans/alumni than those large state schools. Imagine the stadium atmosphere if there were another 5,000 students filling seats.

                    Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

                    Very frustrating game to watch. That first interception was a real killer. The play call was perfect and Austin was wide open in the back of the end zone.

                    Giving Cincy the head start from the turnovers was the game.

                    I am getting very concerned about TB12 and his throwing capabilities. The only decent pass we have seen from him so far this season was the flip to Tyree that resulted in a TD. He has been shaky at best on all his other throws and the lack of giving him opportunities to throw says something as well.

                    Loved seeing the frosh receivers get some playing time and passes thrown their direction. That is very encouraging.

                    Congrats to Cincy - this was the biggest win in program history. Too bad the selection committee will find some way of keeping them out of the playoffs...
                    Against Purdue he threw an outside screen to Austin that was straight dropped.

                    I think the staff is afraid to have him reading coverages in the passing game right now rather than a fear of him throwing the ball.

                    I understand the impulse to protect him due to inexperience but I would like to see him throw against some man coverages.

                    Although I now wonder if Buchner's package does more harm than good if Pyne is the starter.

                    I hated the Coan transfer because it meant taking reps away from the younger guys for a stopgap player in a year that looked to be a bit of a down cycle. I do wonder whether Pyne and Buchner would have gotten some real value from getting all the reps last spring through this fall.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ab2cmiller View Post
                      This is the only thing that makes any sense to me. BK knew Buchner wouldn't be ready this year to take the reigns. Hoped that Coan could bridge the gap because he knew that if Pyne started he would eventually have a problematic QB controversy when it was Buchner's time to take over.


                      If that is the worry I do not want Brian Kelly as the coach. Quarterback controversies or battles are a good thing. Especially in today’s college football landscape where the loser just transfers. So then you don’t have the baggage of the loser being on the team still. The problem with that I guess is we would like depth at the quarterback position and we would not probably except another quarterback transfer for another 10 years but we would at least know who our quarterback is. Right now anyone of the three could roll out there next week.

                      Comment


                      • WE LOST ONE GAME

                        IN A REBUILDING YEAR

                        TO A TOP 10 TEAM

                        RELAX

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                          WE LOST ONE GAME

                          IN A REBUILDING YEAR

                          TO A TOP 10 TEAM

                          RELAX
                          Tend to agree. I thnk the kick in the balls is that it was a winnable game at home against a top 10 team. And they probably would have won if Pyne starts.

                          I'd consider the season a success if they can finish 11-1 or 10-2 and win a good bowl game.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Wild Bill View Post

                            Tend to agree. I thnk the kick in the balls is that it was a winnable game at home against a top 10 team. And they probably would have won if Pyne starts.

                            I'd consider the season a success if they can finish 11-1 or 10-2 and win a good bowl game.
                            A lot of negative thoughts and blame/shame game after the loss to a Top 10 team with maybe not as good as a roster as ND but with arguably more top personnel experience. Listen, I was as disappointed in the game result as anyone, especially knowing that the Irish had real opportunities to beat Cincy but mistakes and poor execution sealed our fate against a very good team. I agree that, in hindsight, Pyne should have started and finished the game. We’ll see if the staff agrees when ND takes the field against the Hokies. The team made plenty of mistakes and most likely, they will learn from it which is especially valuable for our younger players. BK and the staff are professionals for a reason…….even if we don’t always agree with or understand some of their decisions or results. No one was predicting ND to be world beaters this year but if we see a rebound this weekend with improvement overall (and stability at the QB position), the season could still be a success. Who knows, maybe this adversity will set the team up even better for next season…….Go Irish!!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                              WE LOST ONE GAME

                              IN A REBUILDING YEAR

                              TO A TOP 10 TEAM

                              RELAX
                              Get out of here. Too much composure. We need more pitchforks!

                              With that said, I agree with all of that - but I also think Quinn needs to go.

                              Comment


                              • Comment


                                • Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                  WE LOST ONE GAME

                                  IN A REBUILDING YEAR

                                  TO A TOP 10 TEAM

                                  RELAX
                                  This 100%, I’m very interested to see how we respond in Blacksburg. That will be telling to me.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by RockinIrish View Post

                                    A lot of negative thoughts and blame/shame game after the loss to a Top 10 team with maybe not as good as a roster as ND but with arguably more top personnel experience. Listen, I was as disappointed in the game result as anyone, especially knowing that the Irish had real opportunities to beat Cincy but mistakes and poor execution sealed our fate against a very good team. I agree that, in hindsight, Pyne should have started and finished the game. We’ll see if the staff agrees when ND takes the field against the Hokies. The team made plenty of mistakes and most likely, they will learn from it which is especially valuable for our younger players. BK and the staff are professionals for a reason…….even if we don’t always agree with or understand some of their decisions or results. No one was predicting ND to be world beaters this year but if we see a rebound this weekend with improvement overall (and stability at the QB position), the season could still be a success. Who knows, maybe this adversity will set the team up even better for next season…….Go Irish!!!
                                    I have some thoughts on this.

                                    I'm not do sure how good Cincy really is. They just didn't step on their own penises over and over

                                    They didn't even play that well, to be honest.

                                    I'm not so sure we win with Pune starting. His touchdowns were off of a turnover and on a terrible under thrown ball. Also, Cincy just dropped 8 and stopped blitzing with him in the game because of their large lead.

                                    To be fair, the O-line was slightly better.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Sea Turtle View Post

                                      I have some thoughts on this.

                                      I'm not do sure how good Cincy really is. They just didn't step on their own penises over and over

                                      They didn't even play that well, to be honest.

                                      I'm not so sure we win with Pune starting. His touchdowns were off of a turnover and on a terrible under thrown ball. Also, Cincy just dropped 8 and stopped blitzing with him in the game because of their large lead.

                                      To be fair, the O-line was slightly better.
                                      Appreciate your thoughts……..I still think if we avoid just one of the turnovers we had and convert one of the two INT drives into a score, the outcome would have been different. Cincy outplayed us and made fewer errors. Time will tell if they are indeed worthy of their ranking. ND is certainly not playing to the standards I would like to see but I’m optimistic they will respond. Otherwise I may have to buy stock in the local distillery………..

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                        WE LOST ONE GAME

                                        IN A REBUILDING YEAR

                                        TO A TOP 10 TEAM

                                        RELAX
                                        A couple of thoughts on this.

                                        Is it really a rebuild if we're going to have to replace 3 spots on the OL, 2-3 of our starting WR's, our starting RB, and our starting QB of last 5 weeks?

                                        I would be in a totally different mindset if we had benched Lugg and Madden, moved Patterson so Correll could move into his long term spot, played the younger WR's more, and chose 1 of Pyne/Buchner, preferably Buchner. That's a rebuild. This is a bad attempt at getting both. The game is lost and so is the experience to this point. The, marquee, top 10 win at home is lost and a lot of valuable experience for the rebuild is lost.

                                        Also, it's not just that we lost one game to a top 10 team. It's just how bad this offense is. The defensive TD's against Wiscy are covering some of this up. We've scored 7 offensive TD's over the last 3 weeks. We've scored 4 in the two games when we've played good defenses. Michigan just scored 4 against Wisconsin in one game. And, it's not that it's just bad either. Check out the tweet below. It became painstakingly obvious yet nothing was done about it.



                                        Until, we went down 17-0, at home, in the biggest matchup of the year. Not only is this staff not doing anything remotely resembling innovative or unique. They're not even close to building anything that resembles a top 25 offense. At this point, I have a hard time believing this offense will be a top 25 unit next year. Let alone a top 10. And if that's the case, what the fudge are we doing here.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by NDohio View Post

                                          Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

                                          I can't stand Fortuna because he's lazy as shit. In that same podcast ep, when discussing playing Coan vs Pyne, he said something along the lines of, "Ok, I get it. It's Notre Dame. You always think the backup should be starting."

                                          No, you ignorant ass, Pyne should be playing because he gives you a better chance of winning behind this line that can't block for shit, as miniscule as that better chance is.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                            A couple of thoughts on this.

                                            Is it really a rebuild if we're going to have to replace 3 spots on the OL, 2-3 of our starting WR's, our starting RB, and our starting QB of last 5 weeks?

                                            I would be in a totally different mindset if we had benched Lugg and Madden, moved Patterson so Correll could move into his long term spot, played the younger WR's more, and chose 1 of Pyne/Buchner, preferably Buchner. That's a rebuild. This is a bad attempt at getting both. The game is lost and so is the experience to this point. The, marquee, top 10 win at home is lost and a lot of valuable experience for the rebuild is lost.

                                            Also, it's not just that we lost one game to a top 10 team. It's just how bad this offense is. The defensive TD's against Wiscy are covering some of this up. We've scored 7 offensive TD's over the last 3 weeks. We've scored 4 in the two games when we've played good defenses. Michigan just scored 4 against Wisconsin in one game. And, it's not that it's just bad either. Check out the tweet below. It became painstakingly obvious yet nothing was done about it.



                                            Until, we went down 17-0, at home, in the biggest matchup of the year. Not only is this staff not doing anything remotely resembling innovative or unique. They're not even close to building anything that resembles a top 25 offense. At this point, I have a hard time believing this offense will be a top 25 unit next year. Let alone a top 10. And if that's the case, what the fudge are we doing here.
                                            How are we replacing 2-3 Wrs? Avery Davis is the only starter that seems likely to be done. Austin and Lenzy should both be back. Wilkins isn't a starter.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                              A couple of thoughts on this.

                                              Is it really a rebuild if we're going to have to replace 3 spots on the OL, 2-3 of our starting WR's, our starting RB, and our starting QB of last 5 weeks?

                                              I would be in a totally different mindset if we had benched Lugg and Madden, moved Patterson so Correll could move into his long term spot, played the younger WR's more, and chose 1 of Pyne/Buchner, preferably Buchner. That's a rebuild. This is a bad attempt at getting both. The game is lost and so is the experience to this point. The, marquee, top 10 win at home is lost and a lot of valuable experience for the rebuild is lost.

                                              Also, it's not just that we lost one game to a top 10 team. It's just how bad this offense is. The defensive TD's against Wiscy are covering some of this up. We've scored 7 offensive TD's over the last 3 weeks. We've scored 4 in the two games when we've played good defenses. Michigan just scored 4 against Wisconsin in one game. And, it's not that it's just bad either. Check out the tweet below. It became painstakingly obvious yet nothing was done about it.



                                              Until, we went down 17-0, at home, in the biggest matchup of the year. Not only is this staff not doing anything remotely resembling innovative or unique. They're not even close to building anything that resembles a top 25 offense. At this point, I have a hard time believing this offense will be a top 25 unit next year. Let alone a top 10. And if that's the case, what the fudge are we doing here.
                                              I've been worried about this too, post-game. One glimmer of hope I had was the amount of snaps given to Joe Alt in the Cincinnati game. Irish Illustrated reported him having 37, which surpasses the amount he had in the first 4 games. Similarly, Kristofic had a season high number of snaps at RG in place of Madden. Commit to Pyne-Buchner, keep getting the young OLine guys reps, and focus on recruiting one or two upperclassmen receivers while still getting reps to Styles and Colzie (both of whom also had season highs for snaps against Cinci). We have a little over a half a season left, there's a ton of time for guys to start carving roles for themselves going forward.

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                                              • Originally posted by benneboy View Post

                                                How are we replacing 2-3 Wrs? Avery Davis is the only starter that seems likely to be done. Austin and Lenzy should both be back. Wilkins isn't a starter.
                                                I can’t see both of lenzy and Austin coming back. One of them will transfer (to UCF).

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                                                • Is Diggs injured? They were raving about him in camp and he hasn’t had any involvement at all.

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                                                  • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post

                                                    I can’t see both of lenzy and Austin coming back. One of them will transfer (to UCF).
                                                    I don't think Lenzy is on this team next year. No inside information - just a gut feeling. Ugh I felt like Koon writing that.

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                                                    • Originally posted by benneboy View Post

                                                      How are we replacing 2-3 Wrs? Avery Davis is the only starter that seems likely to be done. Austin and Lenzy should both be back. Wilkins isn't a starter.
                                                      Doubtful Austin comes back. He was trying to rehab last year because they wanted to get him to the league and not come back this year. If he plays a full slate of games and can hit the combine, he gone.

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                                                      • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                        Doubtful Austin comes back. He was trying to rehab last year because they wanted to get him to the league and not come back this year. If he plays a full slate of games and can hit the combine, he gone.
                                                        Serious question - is he good enough? He gets obliterated by press coverage, drops balls, and mentally checks out sometimes. I know he’s physically gifted but seems like he has work to do. NFL wasn’t even on my radar for him didn’t know this was a possibility.

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                                                        • Originally posted by KellyIsIt View Post

                                                          Serious question - is he good enough? He gets obliterated by press coverage, drops balls, and mentally checks out sometimes. I know he’s physically gifted but seems like he has work to do. NFL wasn’t even on my radar for him didn’t know this was a possibility.
                                                          This will sound hyperbolic but I think Javon McKinley was better than Austin. And he went undrafted.

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                                                          • Originally posted by KellyIsIt View Post

                                                            Serious question - is he good enough? He gets obliterated by press coverage, drops balls, and mentally checks out sometimes. I know he’s physically gifted but seems like he has work to do. NFL wasn’t even on my radar for him didn’t know this was a possibility.
                                                            I don't know if our opinions matter as much as his does. Again, he and his family chose to not get surgery on his foot last year in an attempt to come back and play his way into the NFL. Do we really think they're going to sit through another season of this? It just seems insanely doubtful.

                                                            But, my opinion is yes. He's an easy NFL draft pick by seasons ends.

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                                                            • Coan was clearly our best shot in 2021 to win a playoff game. I don’t agree with the thought it should have been obvious to move on from him a few weeks ago if you start with that premise. I think the staff thought the same and wanted to hold on for dear life to that chance. Now the playoff is out of the picture and 11-1 is the goal, Pyne gives the best chance at that.

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                                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                Coan was clearly our best shot in 2021 to win a playoff game. I don’t agree with the thought it should have been obvious to move on from him a few weeks ago if you start with that premise. I think the staff thought the same and wanted to hold on for dear life to that chance. Now the playoff is out of the picture and 11-1 is the goal, Pyne gives the best chance at that.
                                                                I think that's also apparent from the extremely conservative offensive game plan they cooked up for Coan against Cincinnati. The two RBs and extra TEs strategy left the game with Jack Coan.

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                                                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                  Coan was clearly our best shot in 2021 to win a playoff game. I don’t agree with the thought it should have been obvious to move on from him a few weeks ago if you start with that premise. I think the staff thought the same and wanted to hold on for dear life to that chance. Now the playoff is out of the picture and 11-1 is the goal, Pyne gives the best chance at that.
                                                                  This is fair enough... I also want to see TB developed beyond a one trick package as well. If we have garbage time games, let him come in and sling it.
                                                                  This sig will not change until The Browns win the Super Bowl... So get real used to it.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Pops Freshenmeyer View Post

                                                                    I think that's also apparent from the extremely conservative offensive game plan they cooked up for Coan against Cincinnati. The two RBs and extra TEs strategy left the game with Jack Coan.
                                                                    Yes starting Purdue week it was whatever adjustment can think of to keep Coan up. 2020 to 2021 starting with fall camp and FSU we saw much more spread out and vertical passing, and not just more than 2020 ND, legit more than much of the country. The notion that they weren’t trying to adjust to a top offense is inaccurate. They just couldn’t either because of OL play, Coan himself, or Rees himself

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                                                                    • Vince D made a good point that with Pyne in the young WRs are more likely to get catches as he has been throwing to them all year in practice and not the starters.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                                        But, my opinion is yes. He's an easy NFL draft pick by seasons ends.
                                                                        I just don't see the speed or the hands.
                                                                        If you are right it means he has got his act together for the last 7 or 8 games so I hope you are right.

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                                                                        • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                          Coan was clearly our best shot in 2021 to win a playoff game. I don’t agree with the thought it should have been obvious to move on from him a few weeks ago if you start with that premise. I think the staff thought the same and wanted to hold on for dear life to that chance. Now the playoff is out of the picture and 11-1 is the goal, Pyne gives the best chance at that.
                                                                          Agree. At the end of the day Coan lost the job by his poor play. We’ll see if Pyne can be good for entire games. Hope so.
                                                                          "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

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                                                                          • Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                                                            WE LOST ONE GAME

                                                                            IN A REBUILDING YEAR

                                                                            TO A TOP 10 TEAM

                                                                            RELAX
                                                                            But it's not that simple. The coaching staff, led by a 12th year ND HC, repeatedly misread situations and put this team in a position to lose. We didn't just lose to a better team...

                                                                            EDIT: And to be clear I'm not calling for BK's head, but this loss was significantly moreso on the staff than the players.

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                                                                            • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                              Is Diggs injured? They were raving about him in camp and he hasn’t had any involvement at all.
                                                                              Unless he is REALLY good at picking up blitzes, I doubt he sees any burn this year. Considering we can't use our RBs for, you know, running the ball...

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                                                                              • I am somewhat in awe that our team would be a playoff contender if we didn't shit the bed in retooling the OL and QB (while accepting subpar WR play). Part of that is nobody outside of UGA and Bama look like they want to go to the playoffs but the bigger piece is how high we have raised the floor in so many areas. I never imagined our OL floor could be this low but here we are. In many ways I am encouraged by this team but then again I was going to be happy with a 9 or 10 win season. Without this loss, I'm not sure Pyne is ever given the reigns. Sooner the better on that end - go get better and lean on the young'uns. Hopefully Colzie and Styles an Buchner can develop in to threats by season end and have tons to build on in off season.

                                                                                I am struggling to see who beats us the rest of the way but I am sure someone will. I think we play for blood at VT with Pyne rallying the troops, maybe Stanford in their shitbox stadium. USC is a dumpster fire and I don't think we let that happen.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                                                                                  I am somewhat in awe that our team would be a playoff contender if we didn't shit the bed in retooling the OL and QB (while accepting subpar WR play). Part of that is nobody outside of UGA and Bama look like they want to go to the playoffs but the bigger piece is how high we have raised the floor in so many areas. I never imagined our OL floor could be this low but here we are. In many ways I am encouraged by this team but then again I was going to be happy with a 9 or 10 win season. Without this loss, I'm not sure Pyne is ever given the reigns. Sooner the better on that end - go get better and lean on the young'uns. Hopefully Colzie and Styles an Buchner can develop in to threats by season end and have tons to build on in off season.

                                                                                  I am struggling to see who beats us the rest of the way but I am sure someone will. I think we play for blood at VT with Pyne rallying the troops, maybe Stanford in their shitbox stadium. USC is a dumpster fire and I don't think we let that happen.
                                                                                  Yup. I think we'll drop one more random game, but finish 10-2 with a win over Texas in a NY6 bowl.

                                                                                  Losing to Cinci sucks because it could have been avoided by better decisions by the coaching staff, but it doesn't change much in the big scheme of things. If you had offered me 10-2 with a good bowl win and a strong recruiting finish in August, I'd have taken it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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                                                                                  • BS

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                                                                                    • Have thought all season our DL has been getting held. You guys just got a sack/TFL you don’t need a holding too line of thinking. Same as Gronk getting mauled most of his career

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                                                          Yup. I think we'll drop one more random game, but finish 10-2 with a win over Texas in a NY6 bowl.

                                                                                          Losing to Cinci sucks because it could have been avoided by better decisions by the coaching staff, but it doesn't change much in the big scheme of things. If you had offered me 10-2 with a good bowl win and a strong recruiting finish in August, I'd have taken it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
                                                                                          Would you rather lose a game where you felt like this? Or, would you rather lose a game where you felt like you didn't have the talent to win?

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post
                                                                                            Would you rather lose a game where you felt like this? Or, would you rather lose a game where you felt like you didn't have the talent to win?
                                                                                            Losing to 'Bama doesn't feel as bad because no one really expects us to be competitive with them. Losing to Cinci is more frustrating because it was winnable, but it's much easier to "fix" these issues mid-season than our talent differential with the Tide, and it also doesn't change much in the big scheme of things since this was a rebuilding year anyway.

                                                                                            I just want: (1) to secure at least 10 wins; and (2) to be building for the future instead of wasting reps on guys who have no chance to raising our ceiling to the next level.

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                                                              Would you rather lose a game where you felt like this? Or, would you rather lose a game where you felt like you didn't have the talent to win?
                                                                                              100% I would rather lose when I didn’t have the talent to win. Losing because you can’t get out of your own way as coaches and then down the line to players is worse for me.
                                                                                              Maybe it's far too soon to tell.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by Redbar View Post

                                                                                                100% I would rather lose when I didn’t have the talent to win. Losing because you can’t get out of your own way as coaches and then down the line to players is worse for me.
                                                                                                This. 100% this.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post

                                                                                                  I just don't see the speed or the hands.
                                                                                                  If you are right it means he has got his act together for the last 7 or 8 games so I hope you are right.
                                                                                                  Agree Austin may have the physical traits, but he hasn’t demonstrated any of the skills required to play in the NFL. The landscape is littered with guys who had the physical traits but lack the elite skills.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                                                                    Agree Austin may have the physical traits, but he hasn’t demonstrated any of the skills required to play in the NFL. The landscape is littered with guys who had the physical traits but lack the elite skills.
                                                                                                    I would argue he hasn’t demonstrated them consistently. I think his lack of experience is coming back to haunt him. It just so happens that some of his mistakes have happened at critical junctures in the game. I’m not ready to shut down his NFL chances quite yet, but he has some big hurdles to overcome if he wants to declare after this season.

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                                                                      Losing to 'Bama doesn't feel as bad because no one really expects us to be competitive with them. Losing to Cinci is more frustrating because it was winnable, but it's much easier to "fix" these issues mid-season than our talent differential with the Tide, and it also doesn't change much in the big scheme of things since this was a rebuilding year anyway.

                                                                                                      I just want: (1) to secure at least 10 wins; and (2) to be building for the future instead of wasting reps on guys who have no chance to raising our ceiling to the next level.
                                                                                                      Whiskey is right. It’s one thing to get beat by a better and more talented team. It’s not ok to lose to a team that’s not as talented or get out coached.
                                                                                                      Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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