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  • We tackle like ****, so Freeman must quit

    Not serious, but kinda worried. Just thought I'd get in front of this one before this one goes the way of BVG.
    Not saying Freeman will do that...but hey, BVG even looked pretty good in the beginning.
    We definitely have some stuff to clean up. What was with all the 3 down linemen when they were gashing us on the ground and the LBs weren't performing great? How did we go from such a stout defense to porous with most of the same cast? Lots of questions to answer.

  • #2
    Welcome back to notre dame football,… we remember you from 1989,…..
    There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ACamp1900 View Post
      Welcome back to notre dame football,… we remember you from 1989,…..
      Someone had to make the thread with Koon banned

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

        Someone had to make the thread with Koon banned
        I’m your boy,… I’m just responding to the title with a grin on my face
        There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

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        • #5
          I know you're joking - but as I said in another post and confirmed with some Google - teams were doing he's tackling this camp and we need to change how we approach this.

          https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources...season-changes

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          • #6
            While the run defense was infuriating the big plays ND gave up weren’t surprising. Lea played a “bend don’t break” scheme & was a wizard at halftime adjustments. ND fans knew they were getting a totally different defensive philosophy why they won the Marcus Freeman sweepstakes. Aggressive defensive scheme is fun to watch when running on all cylinders. But this was Game One in the new system and we should’ve all expected some big plays to be given up. The long run in the first half & that beautiful 3rd down pass by Travis down the sideline were two examples of what can happen in man coverage when a defense is aggressively blitzing.

            That said, it doesn’t excuse the Rush 3 philosophy that allowed FSU back in the game. That was so frustrating. Based on tonight’s performance, Freeman’s former team will embarrass his defense w/ Ridder at the helm. They better hit the film room ASAP.

            Get used to the aggressive defense b/c that’s what we signed up for w/ Freeman. Hopefully the stops outnumber the big busted plays by a large margin.

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            • #7
              I believe defense will be fine

              what is concerning is Fisher injury combined with rushing for 65 yds at a 1.9 yds per

              with those backs that has to be better

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              • #8
                Bottom line, giving up 18 points in the 4th is abysmal. Whatever you think the cause was, scheme, tackling, turtling, etc., that cannot happen. I have a lot of hope for Freeman as a DC but this game was the first pure defensive outcome since Vangorder that I would describe as unacceptable.

                Funnier than you in 2012.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Edge View Post
                  I believe defense will be fine

                  what is concerning is Fisher injury combined with rushing for 65 yds at a 1.9 yds per

                  with those backs that has to be better
                  ND lost 4 starters from last year....and last night you could tell they were missed. Can't blame just the backs for 1.9 yards per rush. Our o-line needs to make those holes, I think Blake is going to be damn good for ND, I hope his injury is not serious, but if he isn't ready for big time college football, let's talk about him next year.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by irishandy View Post

                    ND lost 4 starters from last year....and last night you could tell they were missed. Can't blame just the backs for 1.9 yards per rush. Our o-line needs to make those holes, I think Blake is going to be damn good for ND, I hope his injury is not serious, but if he isn't ready for big time college football, let's talk about him next year.
                    Big Fish was just fine when he was in. In fact the left side of the OL was pretty good. Right side seemed to be getting pushed back the most. Supposedly coach BK said the injury was minor, not MCL or ACL, more like a tweak. Could miss some time to be careful, but I would guess he's back by Wisconsin or sooner. I agree with you that the OL needs work though, not the backs.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

                      Big Fish was just fine when he was in. In fact the left side of the OL was pretty good. Right side seemed to be getting pushed back the most. Supposedly coach BK said the injury was minor, not MCL or ACL, more like a tweak. Could miss some time to be careful, but I would guess he's back by Wisconsin or sooner. I agree with you that the OL needs work though, not the backs.
                      He actually did say it was a MCL/ACL strain that requires an MRI. He wasnt worried it was serious though.
                      Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GUknights75 View Post

                        He actually did say it was a MCL/ACL strain that requires an MRI. He wasnt worried it was serious though.
                        Yeah, sorry, just meant it's not a tear from what they've seen.

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                        • #13
                          Yes I was annoyed in the fourth quarter but there were things I really like bout this defense. They will get better as the year moves forward. I didnt like how tired they got and that they were not assignment correct at the end of the game and gave up the edge.
                          God Country Notre Dame
                          http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...andeverett.jpg

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                          • #14
                            Im waiting until a few games to pass judgement. Road game, prime time, traveled far, Sunday game, significant injuries during th egame and down a few starters to start. Best outcome as far as Im concerned. Need some game time to get hard. LFG.
                            "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                            • #15
                              Still not sold. 3rd and 15, VT QB's throwing arm is injured and we let him run it in for a TD. Tackling has just been bad today.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post
                                Still not sold. 3rd and 15, VT QB's throwing arm is injured and we let him run it in for a TD. Tackling has just been bad today.
                                What I don't understand is why we haven't had a spy on him all game. We've had enough pressure, and their QB has been really successful at extending those plays.

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post
                                  Still not sold. 3rd and 15, VT QB's throwing arm is injured and we let him run it in for a TD. Tackling has just been bad today.
                                  Tackling has been terrible all season.
                                  Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                  • #18
                                    that Cam Hart miss on 3rd and about 5 short was embarrassing for him. A worse play than the pick 6.
                                    He should not turn up to that podcast this week. He had a bad game all around.

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                                    • #19
                                      This D forces guys into one on one situations in space. You need to be able to tackle when you put your guys in those situations.

                                      VT ‘s conversion rate on 3rd down was almost automatic.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
                                        This D forces guys into one on one situations in space. You need to be able to tackle when you put your guys in those situations.

                                        VT ‘s conversion rate on 3rd down was almost automatic.
                                        This same D has held opponents up to yesterday to less than 25% on 3rd downs.

                                        this game ND was 3/12 on 3rd and VT was 8/17 with a week to prepare. Also ND generated 1 TO and 1 sack
                                        Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 10-10-2021, 09:47 AM.
                                        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                        • #21
                                          I would take 8 of 17 all day long if I’m the OC. The key is the defense has been inconsistent and tackling has been poor.

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                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                            This same D has held opponents up to yesterday to less than 25% on 3rd downs.

                                            this game ND was 3/12 on 3rd and VT was 8/17 with a week to prepare. Also ND generated 1 TO and 1 sack
                                            1 sack... it does seem like ND is really struggling to get pressure.

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                                            • #23
                                              Lb's didn't miss any by my eyes but the CB's (Lewis, Bracy, and Hart) all missed at least one.

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                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by AvesEvo View Post

                                                1 sack... it does seem like ND is really struggling to get pressure.
                                                Oh we're getting pressure. But the Tech QB just ran away from it, almost every time. DE's do not maintain the edge. MTA is particularly bad at this.

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                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by stpeteirish View Post

                                                  Oh we're getting pressure. But the Tech QB just ran away from it, almost every time. DE's do not maintain the edge. MTA is particularly bad at this.
                                                  We’ve also seen nothing but our QBs shifting right into pressure which has jaded all of us
                                                  There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

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                                                  • #26
                                                    You would like to see some more reward for our risk tho. 1 sack with multiple pressures that we didn't contain isn't really worth the risk but maybe the alternative is just getting marched on left and right?!?
                                                    Prehistoric

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                                                    • #27
                                                      Originally posted by stpeteirish View Post

                                                      DE's do not maintain the edge. MTA is particularly bad at this.
                                                      Makes sense given he’s a defensive tackle. Having Foskey blitz as a linebacker for all intents and purposes probably isn’t helping either.

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                                                      • #28
                                                        Yeah, if our DEs were containing it would certainly help when some of these QBs like VT's try to escape the pocket and extend plays.

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                                                        • #29
                                                          One thing I'm not seeing is Freeman making many adjustments and when he does, it's usually after halftime. You might score on Lea on the first series or maybe the first quarter, but after that, he strangled you.

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                                                          • #30
                                                            Garbage tackling. Guys are out of position. Too many big plays.

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                                                            • #31
                                                              Rebuild year using a lot of guys that he wouldn't recruit.

                                                              If he makes it to year 3, you'll see what Cincy's D would look like with 4 & 5*'s instead of hand picked low 3's.

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                                                              • #32
                                                                Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post
                                                                Rebuild year using a lot of guys that he wouldn't recruit.

                                                                If he makes it to year 3, you'll see what Cincy's D would look like with 4 & 5*'s instead of hand picked low 3's.
                                                                He can't even teach tackling. That's a basic.
                                                                Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

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                                                                • #33
                                                                  Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post
                                                                  Rebuild year using a lot of guys that he wouldn't recruit.

                                                                  If he makes it to year 3, you'll see what Cincy's D would look like with 4 & 5*'s instead of hand picked low 3's.
                                                                  Or Luke Fickell is the real reason Cincy's defense has been successful.

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                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post
                                                                    Rebuild year using a lot of guys that he wouldn't recruit.

                                                                    If he makes it to year 3, you'll see what Cincy's D would look like with 4 & 5*'s instead of hand picked low 3's.
                                                                    Not his guys has nothing to do with tackling. What I don't understand is why they could tackle last year, but not this year.

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                                                                    • #35
                                                                      Originally posted by AvesEvo View Post

                                                                      Not his guys has nothing to do with tackling. What I don't understand is why they could tackle last year, but not this year.
                                                                      Lea stressed that Wu philosophy.

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                                                                      • #36
                                                                        This defense has enough talent to stop the likes of UNC from racking up 600 yards of offense . The coaches are to blame here.

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                                                                        • #37
                                                                          I'd like to see what his D looks like once the LB's get here.

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                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Remember guys... hot takes are forever, time-stamped & easily retrievable here on Irish Envy. They don't disappear into the ether like the paid sites.

                                                                            Shooting 3's in a half court, motion offense is a lot easier than shooting the same 3's in Paul Westhead's system.

                                                                            Freeman's D will be fine as his guys develop in it.

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                                                                            • #39
                                                                              Originally posted by NDFAN420 View Post
                                                                              I'd like to see what his D looks like once the LB's get here.
                                                                              Good take for a mill rat.

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                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post
                                                                                Remember guys... hot takes are forever, time-stamped & easily retrievable here on Irish Envy. They don't disappear into the ether like the paid sites.

                                                                                Shooting 3's in a half court, motion offense is a lot easier than shooting the same 3's in Paul Westhead's system.

                                                                                Freeman's D will be fine as his guys develop in it.
                                                                                You're probably right, but the missed tackles aren't a scheme thing. Those are poor fundamentals.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

                                                                                  You're probably right, but the missed tackles aren't a scheme thing. Those are poor fundamentals.
                                                                                  Fundamentals break down at speed. That's the problem I believe.

                                                                                  The Lea guys that come back will be MUCH better in year two of the Freeman Experience.

                                                                                  Just get me to 2023 & '24

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                                                                                  • #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post

                                                                                    Fundamentals break down at speed. That's the problem I believe.

                                                                                    The Lea guys that come back will be MUCH better in year two of the Freeman Experience.

                                                                                    Just get me to 2023 & '24
                                                                                    For all our sakes I hope you're right. I'm not holding my breath though. I would have expected us to get better as the season goes on, but I'm not seeing it.

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                                                                                    • #43
                                                                                      I think 2 things can be true:

                                                                                      Lea is a better developer of talent (see Coney, Tranq, Bilal, Wu, and of course Drew White)

                                                                                      Freeman is a better recruiter, though perhaps not as good at developing talent. They're different skills.

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                                                                                      • #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by zelezo vlk View Post
                                                                                        I think 2 things can be true:

                                                                                        Lea is a better developer of talent (see Coney, Tranq, Bilal, Wu, and of course Drew White)

                                                                                        Freeman is a better recruiter, though perhaps not as good at developing talent. They're different skills.
                                                                                        I'll take the developer 9 times out of 10. Talent doesn't always pan out. Guys that can develop can win with table scraps. Look at Michigan State during their good years.

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                                                                                        • #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by zelezo vlk View Post
                                                                                          I think 2 things can be true:

                                                                                          Lea is a better developer of talent (see Coney, Tranq, Bilal, Wu, and of course Drew White)

                                                                                          Freeman is a better recruiter, though perhaps not as good at developing talent. They're different skills.
                                                                                          I don't know... Freeman took 2 & 3 stars and maybe some no stars and went toe to toe with UGA.

                                                                                          The Freeman doubt reminds me of the Quinn doubt. Why can't they do it here with their guys? They've done it at other places before with less

                                                                                          Once agian, enjoy the 11 win rebuild year... they're as common as 6 legged unicorns.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by zelezo vlk View Post
                                                                                            I think 2 things can be true:

                                                                                            Lea is a better developer of talent (see Coney, Tranq, Bilal, Wu, and of course Drew White)

                                                                                            Freeman is a better recruiter, though perhaps not as good at developing talent. They're different skills.
                                                                                            Definitely premature.

                                                                                            Freeman has been here for about 10 months. That's not a lot of time to implement an entirely new system and get everybody on board.

                                                                                            I think we underestimated the drastic transition of the defensive schemes and players are struggling to adjust to it.

                                                                                            It'd be nice if Freeman could adjust to his personnel, but I won't lose sleep over it unless it's like this next year.
                                                                                            It's Just a Ride.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by ulukinatme View Post

                                                                                              I'll take the developer 9 times out of 10. Talent doesn't always pan out. Guys that can develop can win with table scraps. Look at Michigan State during their good years.
                                                                                              This used to be me but the metrics say the best you can do with scraps is win... while wining it all takes lots of 4.75 - 5 stars and elite QB play.

                                                                                              Jimmy's & Joe's > X's & O's.

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                                                                                              • #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post

                                                                                                I don't know... Freeman took 2 & 3 stars and maybe some no stars and went toe to toe with UGA.

                                                                                                The Freeman doubt reminds me of the Quinn doubt. Why can't they do it here with their guys? They've done it at other places before with less

                                                                                                Once agian, enjoy the 11 win rebuild year... they're as common as 6 legged unicorns.
                                                                                                Oh I'm not saying that Freeman is doing a worse job. The 2 skills I mentioned are the 2 variables of an equation. Better players leads to better defense, but so does better development. Could Lea have done a better job with this defense? Maybe. But would Freeman do a better job with his defense in 3 years? I think it's likely.

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                                                                                                • #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post

                                                                                                  This used to be me but the metrics say the best you can do with scraps is win... while wining it all takes lots of 4.75 - 5 stars and elite QB play.

                                                                                                  Jimmy's & Joe's > X's & O's.
                                                                                                  In reality you need both, but anymore I seriously doubt ND can get enough talent to realistically beat a true playoff team. In our heyday when we had talent knocking down our doors and Vinny Cerrato was using every genius recruiting trick in the book to stack the deck (Before the NCAA effectively ruined our advantage) we were the gold standard. Realistically I just don't think we can expect to win the whole thing when we're handicapping ourselves and the top 5 football factories are all in.

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                                                                                                  • #50
                                                                                                    How concerned should I be that we have played freshman all over the field but not the secondary when the secondary is one of our weaknesses and many of those freshman db’s were pretty highly thought of

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