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  • I probably should have backed the CCG loss out of those overall records above just to make the picture clearer. But since I didn't do it that way, I'll present it the same here. Just make a mental note those are final records which includes any losses in the conference championships.

    OK, this is probably my last one. The 2017 rankings from December 3rd:

    1. Clemson
    2. Oklahoma
    3. Georgia
    4. Alabama (11-1)
    5. OSU
    6. Wisconsin
    7. Auburn (10-3)
    8. USC
    9. PSU
    10. Miami
    11. Washington (10-2)
    12. UCF
    13. Stanford (9-4)
    14. ND
    15. TCU (10-3)

    So we see the same pattern here with two exceptions. Alabama was ranked ahead of the SEC loser Auburn and Washington was ranked ahead of PAC loser Stanford. Auburn had one more loss than Alabama heading into the CCG and Stanford had one more loss than Washington heading into the CCG. Then each team lost in the CCG so they had two additional losses compared to their conference-mates who ended up ahead of them.

    So the committee bucked the trend of the CCG loser getting second place in their conference but, again, we're looking at additional losses.

    TCU is an interesting case. They picked up a third loss in the CCG and ended up ranked behind three loss teams Auburn (whose third loss also came in a CCG), Stanford (who picked up a 4th loss in their CCG), and Notre Dame, who also had three losses but no CCG.

    Comment


    • I am likely echoing previous thoughts but once you break the mental barrier of the phrase “ND is not getting a bye”, it’s a net positive for ND.

      Call Championship weekend Week 13 and the First Round Week 14:

      12-0 ND has a bye in week 13 and then plays a likely 2-3 loss team at home in week 14.

      12-0 Bama/OU/OSU etc have to play neutral site against usually a 1-2 loss team and then get a bye in week 14.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dale View Post
        I am likely echoing previous thoughts but once you break the mental barrier of the phrase “ND is not getting a bye”, it’s a net positive for ND.

        Call Championship weekend Week 13 and the First Round Week 14:

        12-0 ND has a bye in week 13 and then plays a likely 2-3 loss team at home in week 14.

        12-0 Bama/OU/OSU etc have to play neutral site against usually a 1-2 loss team and then get a bye in week 14.
        I dont have a strong opinion on whether its a positive or negative. It'll be annoying if ND is a clear cut #1 or #2 but it is what it is.

        End of the day, this should also spread out elite recruits. Suddenly going to a "fallen" blue blood like Michigan, Texas, Penn State, etc. are viable playoff hopefuls. Much easier to get to a top 10-12 level than a top 4 level.

        Really hope Kelly and whoever takes over when he retires or leaves can leverage this into better recruiting. Should be a regular participant and will get to play against teams that often times don't have the same sort of talent on the field.
        Last edited by NorthDakota; 06-14-2021, 12:43 PM.
        Based Mullet Kid owns

        Comment


        • Clemson has UConn scheduled in November. Alabama has New Mexico State.

          This idea that ND not having to play a conference championship gives them "rest" seems rather hypocritical of anyone making that argument if you're not asking why the f&ck Clemson and Alabama are scheduling schools like this in November. Power Five schools of their caliber shouldn't even be scheduling games like this in September, but they do that too. Alabama hosts MERCER on September 11th.

          Clemson plays South Carolina State on September 11th.

          Notre Dame plays Toledo, who I think can handle Mercer and South Carolina State just about any Saturday of the year, and it is on short rest since they open on the road vs FSU the Sunday prior.

          As a supporter of the Indepedent Catholic University from the Midwest, I still have a problem with SEC and ACC teams scheduling these kinds of games regardless of whether they open with Miami and Georgia or not. Notre Dame's November schedule consists of Navy, at UVA, Georgia Tech and at Stanford.

          ND plays an Independent schedule that, perhaps in my homer mind, is worthy of 12 games being considered a fuller season than that of some of these conference affiliated teams who play 13. What are wins against South Carolina State and UConn really worth?
          It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
            Clemson has UConn scheduled in November. Alabama has New Mexico State.

            This idea that ND not having to play a conference championship gives them "rest" seems rather hypocritical of anyone making that argument if you're not asking why the f&ck Clemson and Alabama are scheduling schools like this in November. Power Five schools of their caliber shouldn't even be scheduling games like this in September, but they do that too. Alabama hosts MERCER on September 11th.

            Clemson plays South Carolina State on September 11th.

            Notre Dame plays Toledo, who I think can handle Mercer and South Carolina State just about any Saturday of the year, and it is on short rest since they open on the road vs FSU the Sunday prior.

            As a supporter of the Indepedent Catholic University from the Midwest, I still have a problem with SEC and ACC teams scheduling these kinds of games regardless of whether they open with Miami and Georgia or not. Notre Dame's November schedule consists of Navy, at UVA, Georgia Tech and at Stanford.

            ND plays an Independent schedule that, perhaps in my homer mind, is worthy of 12 games being considered a fuller season than that of some of these conference affiliated teams who play 13. What are wins against South Carolina State and UConn really worth?
            Co-signed

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
              Clemson has UConn scheduled in November. Alabama has New Mexico State.

              This idea that ND not having to play a conference championship gives them "rest" seems rather hypocritical of anyone making that argument if you're not asking why the f&ck Clemson and Alabama are scheduling schools like this in November. Power Five schools of their caliber shouldn't even be scheduling games like this in September, but they do that too. Alabama hosts MERCER on September 11th.

              Clemson plays South Carolina State on September 11th.

              Notre Dame plays Toledo, who I think can handle Mercer and South Carolina State just about any Saturday of the year, and it is on short rest since they open on the road vs FSU the Sunday prior.

              As a supporter of the Indepedent Catholic University from the Midwest, I still have a problem with SEC and ACC teams scheduling these kinds of games regardless of whether they open with Miami and Georgia or not. Notre Dame's November schedule consists of Navy, at UVA, Georgia Tech and at Stanford.

              ND plays an Independent schedule that, perhaps in my homer mind, is worthy of 12 games being considered a fuller season than that of some of these conference affiliated teams who play 13. What are wins against South Carolina State and UConn really worth?
              In the eyes of the committee the games versus SCState, Furman, and the Citadel weigh more than playing New Mexico and not paying a 13th
              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
                Clemson has UConn scheduled in November. Alabama has New Mexico State.

                This idea that ND not having to play a conference championship gives them "rest" seems rather hypocritical of anyone making that argument if you're not asking why the f&ck Clemson and Alabama are scheduling schools like this in November. Power Five schools of their caliber shouldn't even be scheduling games like this in September, but they do that too. Alabama hosts MERCER on September 11th.

                Clemson plays South Carolina State on September 11th.

                Notre Dame plays Toledo, who I think can handle Mercer and South Carolina State just about any Saturday of the year, and it is on short rest since they open on the road vs FSU the Sunday prior.

                As a supporter of the Indepedent Catholic University from the Midwest, I still have a problem with SEC and ACC teams scheduling these kinds of games regardless of whether they open with Miami and Georgia or not. Notre Dame's November schedule consists of Navy, at UVA, Georgia Tech and at Stanford.

                ND plays an Independent schedule that, perhaps in my homer mind, is worthy of 12 games being considered a fuller season than that of some of these conference affiliated teams who play 13. What are wins against South Carolina State and UConn really worth?
                I agree with you overall but that's not the reality of college football. I've long thought ND needs to lighten its load on the schools like UVA, Arkansas, and Purdue. Playing a bunch of those schools (Power 5 conference) makes for a tough overall schedule but you get zero credit for beating them. I actually like our 2022 schedule where we have both Ohio State and Clemson on the schedule. We've also placed our cupcakes in good spots (Marshall right after Ohio State and UNLV before Clemson). We just need to occasionally beat these powerhouse programs and the perception of ND will change. Beating a bunch of mid-levels Power 5 schools won't do it.
                "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                  In the eyes of the committee the games versus SCState, Furman, and the Citadel weigh more than playing New Mexico and not paying a 13th
                  We live in a very stupid country.
                  It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                    We live in a very stupid country.
                    Yes. Jack said that this new deal would end the whole 13th data point issue for good. CAn you imagine having to have the conversation every year with the selection committee that our wins versus mid tier Power 5 schools and our lowest ranked FCS team is better than Oklahoma or Oregons victory over their FBS teams and their CCG victory?
                    "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                      Yes. Jack said that this new deal would end the whole 13th data point issue for good. CAn you imagine having to have the conversation every year with the selection committee that our wins versus mid tier Power 5 schools and our lowest ranked FCS team is better than Oklahoma or Oregons victory over their FBS teams and their CCG victory?
                      This is the problem. We have a bunch of victories over mid tier teams when a CCG win usually means a win over a top 10 team. When deciding who deserves to make the playoffs against the best of the best, I would also go with the teams that had proven they were capable of beating top teams. It's been said ad nauseam but ND just needs to win some of these big time games and that perception will be gone.
                      "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                      Comment


                      • Not being in the top 4 should shut up the haters that want us in a conference, but it won't. Haters gonna hate.

                        Comment


                        • IMO just sign us up for the ACC. It was fun last year and honestly, this won't be the last time they'll try to squeeze us for being independent. Independence has its advantages but it's not like being in a major conference doesn't have its own.

                          Comment


                          • Stay independent until the 4 superconferences happen then evaluate if you stay with the new semi-pro football association or if you build the P5-Smarty pants league with whatever eggheads can also walk away from the money.

                            Comment


                            • I haven't seen it explicitly stated; what happens if there's an upset? Will the seedings be rearranged? Or will it be like the college bball tourney where the chips fall as they may?

                              Example: The current assumption is that the #1 seed will play the winner of #8/#9 matchup, but what if the #12 seed upsets the #5 seed?

                              Hypothetical from last year:

                              No. 12 Coastal Carolina at No. 5 Notre Dame winner vs. 4. Oklahoma
                              No. 11 Indiana at No. 6 Texas A&M winner vs. 3. Ohio State
                              No. 10 Iowa State at No. 7 Florida winner vs. 2. Clemson
                              No. 9 Georgia at No. 8 Cincinnati winner vs. 1. Alabama

                              What if ND loses? Does Bama then play Coastal Carolina? Or do they keep the bracket in place and OU gets them?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                Yes. Jack said that this new deal would end the whole 13th data point issue for good. CAn you imagine having to have the conversation every year with the selection committee that our wins versus mid tier Power 5 schools and our lowest ranked FCS team is better than Oklahoma or Oregons victory over their FBS teams and their CCG victory?
                                The entire issue with ND is that ever since that January 1994 Cotton Bowl they have not won a major bowl game and have lost in grand fashion each time. It's a small sample size that has affected perception of the program for decades.

                                The schedules are made years in advance and ND schedules Power Five Teams, G5 at the worst. No FCS schools in September, November or any other time. I have no problem admitting that two things are true at the same time: ND has gotten blown out in big bowls when they get in them and they play a better schedule than a lot of these other jackaloons that have to play a conference championship.

                                Let's be straight, too, these conference championship games are a joke. When is the last time we saw an upset in one, 2013 MSU beating OSU? I honestly can't remember the last time an underdog won one where it caused chaos. Didn't Clemson score 150 points against UVA a few years ago?
                                It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
                                  The entire issue with ND is that ever since that January 1994 Cotton Bowl they have not won a major bowl game and have lost in grand fashion each time. It's a small sample size that has affected perception of the program for decades.
                                  We've beaten LSU in the post-season three times during that period. You can discount those for not happening in "NY6 Bowls" if you want, but: (1) the goal posts can always be moved for anything short of a natty; and (2) those "major bowls" are now pretty meaningless themselves outside of the CFP.

                                  The schedules are made years in advance and ND schedules Power Five Teams, G5 at the worst. No FCS schools in September, November or any other time. I have no problem admitting that two things are true at the same time: ND has gotten blown out in big bowls when they get in them and they play a better schedule than a lot of these other jackaloons that have to play a conference championship.

                                  Let's be straight, too, these conference championship games are a joke. When is the last time we saw an upset in one, 2013 MSU beating OSU? I honestly can't remember the last time an underdog won one where it caused chaos. Didn't Clemson score 150 points against UVA a few years ago?
                                  It's just a different model. The SEC headline match-ups are generally tougher than ours, while their cupcakes are also squishier than ours. Check out Sagarin's SOS rankings for last season. Just looking at the top 20, our schedule (#57) was better than Cincinatti (#91), Buffalo (#76), and BYU (#106), but it was significantly weaker than everyone else's (other than Clemson, thanks ACC).

                                  It's cool that we're one of only three programs who have never played an FCS team before, and I hope they keep that going. But I'm not inclined to beat my chest about it.
                                  Last edited by Whiskeyjack; 06-15-2021, 04:45 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                    The entire issue with ND is that ever since that January 1994 Cotton Bowl they have not won a major bowl game and have lost in grand fashion each time. It's a small sample size that has affected perception of the program for decades.

                                    The schedules are made years in advance and ND schedules Power Five Teams, G5 at the worst. No FCS schools in September, November or any other time. I have no problem admitting that two things are true at the same time: ND has gotten blown out in big bowls when they get in them and they play a better schedule than a lot of these other jackaloons that have to play a conference championship.

                                    Let's be straight, too, these conference championship games are a joke. When is the last time we saw an upset in one, 2013 MSU beating OSU? I honestly can't remember the last time an underdog won one where it caused chaos. Didn't Clemson score 150 points against UVA a few years ago?
                                    The 2017 SEC championship game. Georgia beat Auburn after losing to them earlier in the year.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by BleedBlueGold View Post
                                      I haven't seen it explicitly stated; what happens if there's an upset? Will the seedings be rearranged? Or will it be like the college bball tourney where the chips fall as they may?

                                      Example: The current assumption is that the #1 seed will play the winner of #8/#9 matchup, but what if the #12 seed upsets the #5 seed?

                                      Hypothetical from last year:

                                      No. 12 Coastal Carolina at No. 5 Notre Dame winner vs. 4. Oklahoma
                                      No. 11 Indiana at No. 6 Texas A&M winner vs. 3. Ohio State
                                      No. 10 Iowa State at No. 7 Florida winner vs. 2. Clemson
                                      No. 9 Georgia at No. 8 Cincinnati winner vs. 1. Alabama

                                      What if ND loses? Does Bama then play Coastal Carolina? Or do they keep the bracket in place and OU gets them?
                                      Per the official CFP press release there won't be any reseeding. At least not in the model proposed by the working group.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by House16 View Post

                                        Per the official CFP press release there won't be any reseeding. At least not in the model proposed by the working group.
                                        Not that it would matter to any of us. The mass suicides following a defeat to Coastal Carolina would make Jonestown look like a Romeo and Juliet.
                                        Based Mullet Kid owns

                                        Comment


                                        • In a full normal season the committee will manipulate it to get the Pac 12 in so Coastal would not have been in it. #12 likely becomes Indiana or Oregon. If we assume NDs get the 5 seed with decent frequency, how soon till an almost ND - USC Playoff game? Committee likely bumps them to 11 to avoid it but would be interesting hypothetical given the likelihood that the Pac 12 champ continues to lag behind.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by BleedBlueGold View Post
                                            I haven't seen it explicitly stated; what happens if there's an upset? Will the seedings be rearranged? Or will it be like the college bball tourney where the chips fall as they may?

                                            Example: The current assumption is that the #1 seed will play the winner of #8/#9 matchup, but what if the #12 seed upsets the #5 seed?

                                            Hypothetical from last year:

                                            No. 12 Coastal Carolina at No. 5 Notre Dame winner vs. 4. Oklahoma
                                            No. 11 Indiana at No. 6 Texas A&M winner vs. 3. Ohio State
                                            No. 10 Iowa State at No. 7 Florida winner vs. 2. Clemson
                                            No. 9 Georgia at No. 8 Cincinnati winner vs. 1. Alabama

                                            What if ND loses? Does Bama then play Coastal Carolina? Or do they keep the bracket in place and OU gets them?
                                            That would've legitimately been amazing. Still would've gotten wrecked by the Bama super team eventually, but it would've felt better with two wins.

                                            Florida-Clemson would've been a legit game, and Georgia/Cinci and Georgia/Bama (with JT Daniels) would've been fun.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                                              That would've legitimately been amazing. Still would've gotten wrecked by the Bama super team eventually, but it would've felt better with two wins.

                                              Florida-Clemson would've been a legit game, and Georgia/Cinci and Georgia/Bama (with JT Daniels) would've been fun.
                                              Id say we would have lost to OU

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                Id say we would have lost to OU
                                                I think we'd handle them pretty well honestly.
                                                Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                  Id say we would have lost to OU
                                                  Beat them at least 7 out of 10 times. Charmin soft team, would not have been able to stop us running the ball and their offense was not consistent enough to score 30+ on ND.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                                                    Beat them at least 7 out of 10 times. Charmin soft team, would not have been able to stop us running the ball and their offense was not consistent enough to score 30+ on ND.
                                                    I think your describing old OU teams but that OU team post Stevenson/Perkins returning was humming. They bottled up Breece Hall to a decent level. When you talk about “dudes” on D. OU has DUDES in their F7. I think it’d be a great game probably a race to 28, I just don’t know if Book/WRs could have taken advantage of their secondary enough to win that race

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                      I think your describing old OU teams but that OU team post Stevenson/Perkins returning was humming. They bottled up Breece Hall to a decent level. When you talk about “dudes” on D. OU has DUDES in their F7. I think it’d be a great game probably a race to 28, I just don’t know if Book/WRs could have taken advantage of their secondary enough to win that race
                                                      Eh...I dont think they are cut out to stop a physical team. Iowa State....eh...they don't have the same sort of talent on their team Notre Dame does.
                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                                                        Beat them at least 7 out of 10 times. Charmin soft team, would not have been able to stop us running the ball and their offense was not consistent enough to score 30+ on ND.
                                                        If ND’s starting OL was all healthy, I’d agree on 7/10. Tough call with the injuries but I agree with you on the physicality that ND could impose & the lack of physicality on the OU side.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • Originally posted by Irishize View Post

                                                          If ND’s starting OL was all healthy, I’d agree on 7/10. Tough call with the injuries but I agree with you on the physicality that ND could impose & the lack of physicality on the OU side.
                                                          Agree, OU plays in Charmin soft conference. The big uglies would wear down their linemen.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • Originally posted by House16 View Post

                                                            Per the official CFP press release there won't be any reseeding. At least not in the model proposed by the working group.
                                                            Thanks. Still unsure how I feel about it all. A 12-0 reg season ND team getting a 5 seed may never sit well with me. I agree with Dale that the committee would've tried to get all P5 Champs in, meaning ND (as #5) isn't getting some cushy first round game like Coastal Carolina (regardless of how good they may be). Recent history suggests Bama, Clemson, OSU in the first three spots. Who's 4? Are they more deserving at 4 than a 12-0 ND team? Does it matter? Even if ND gets by the first two rounds, they will always get to the Final Four as the lowest seed (barring any major upsets). It seems like a supreme disadvantage to voluntarily set yourself up for 2 tough games prior to an inevitable semi-final round matchup with the 1 seed all because what, you don't like defending the 13th data point? You want to maintain independence? I have to remind myself that Jack is a smart man. It's just a matter of finding the true motivation behind this agreement. Money? Brand Exposure? Inevitably joining a conference?

                                                            Things I like about it: more games, more exciting matchups with a trophy on the line, perhaps an easier path for ND to get in the mix each year (even if it's squeaking in at #12 occasionally), potential for upsets, Bama/OSU/Clemson actually having to play more reputable opponents on their path to a NC.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                              The 2017 SEC championship game. Georgia beat Auburn after losing to them earlier in the year.
                                                              What was the spread on that game?
                                                              It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                                Agree, OU plays in Charmin soft conference. The big uglies would wear down their linemen.
                                                                Last year's OU defense was surprisingly good. Normally they are soft but that just wasn't the case in 2020. They struggled in the beginning of the season bc they were breaking in Rattler.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                                  What was the spread on that game?
                                                                  Wikipedia says Georgia was a 1.5 favorite.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                                    We've beaten LSU in the post-season three times during that period. You can discount those for not happening in "NY6 Bowls" if you want, but: (1) the goal posts can always be moved for anything short of a natty; and (2) those "major bowls" are now pretty meaningless themselves outside of the CFP.



                                                                    It's just a different model. The SEC headline match-ups are generally tougher than ours, while their cupcakes are also squishier than ours. Check out Sagarin's SOS rankings for last season. Just looking at the top 20, our schedule (#57) was better than Cincinatti (#91), Buffalo (#76), and BYU (#106), but it was significantly weaker than everyone else's (other than Clemson, thanks ACC).

                                                                    It's cool that we're one of only three programs who have never played an FCS team before, and I hope they keep that going. But I'm not inclined to beat my chest about it.
                                                                    Nobody cares ND beat LSU in December bowl games outside of the fanbase. The national narrative bulletpoint is the Rick Minter Sugar Bowl of January 2007 when future Hostess King Jamarcus Russell pantsed ND in New Orleans.

                                                                    It all comes down to one thing: if Jack believes this format is good for ND and can win them a National Championship, so be it. Winning National Championships should be the top priority. I think the top priority, however, is money and remaining independent.
                                                                    It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • Originally posted by Pops Freshenmeyer View Post

                                                                      Wikipedia says Georgia was a 1.5 favorite.
                                                                      Thank you.

                                                                      Not an upset.
                                                                      It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                                        Thank you.

                                                                        Not an upset.
                                                                        Does it matter if it’s a ATS upset from this POV? The implication was how a conference championship could alter the playoff bracket. Without that game Auburn makes the playoff, with that game Georgia did and was a OT away from a a national championship. From the expansion POV, without that game Auburn gets a bye and Top 4, with the game Georgia does. The higher seed got upset and lost their spot.
                                                                        Last edited by Dale; 06-16-2021, 10:18 AM.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                                          Nobody cares ND beat LSU in December bowl games outside of the fanbase. The national narrative bulletpoint is the Rick Minter Sugar Bowl of January 2007 when future Hostess King Jamarcus Russell pantsed ND in New Orleans.

                                                                          It all comes down to one thing: if Jack believes this format is good for ND and can win them a National Championship, so be it. Winning National Championships should be the top priority. I think the top priority, however, is money and remaining independent.
                                                                          The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

                                                                          I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post

                                                                            The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

                                                                            I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.
                                                                            Heck Pitt, Wake, BC, Georgia Tech, Miami have been on the schedule before the ACC agreement. And at least 1 or 2 would be on the schedule dang near every year. So it's really only a few more ACC games than normal.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post

                                                                              The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

                                                                              I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.
                                                                              That's because you aren't considering anything else besides the scheduling model. What about the television contract/always being televised, even against the weakest opponents? That is still a huge selling point. The conference only dictates 40% because Jack shrewdly negotiated a great deal with the ACC. We get to have our cake and eat it too but some people are too thick to see the inherent advantages of ND's current position.

                                                                              The playoff expansion, as laid out, further strengthens ND's position and eliminates the 13th data point discussion. (I'd argue no reasonable person would bring it up after the Buckeyes being included last year but I digress). Jack has done incredibly well for ND, I hope the team can capitalize and win at least one title before his time is up. The clock is ticking...

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                Does it matter if it’s a ATS upset from this POV? The implication was how a conference championship could alter the playoff bracket. Without that game Auburn makes the playoff, with that game Georgia did and was a OT away from a a national championship. From the expansion POV, without that game Auburn gets a bye and Top 4, with the game Georgia does. The higher seed got upset and lost their spot.
                                                                                In this instance, the Supreme Court would say it's like porn...you know it when you see it.

                                                                                This wasn't an upset.
                                                                                It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                                                  In this instance, the Supreme Court would say it's like porn...you know it when you see it.

                                                                                  This wasn't an upset.
                                                                                  Auburn had beaten Georgia and Alabama that year by double double digits lol. It had a drastic effect on the playoff that year, it would have had a drastic effect on the expanded playoff. I guess a 1 pt line erases all of that lol.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post

                                                                                    The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

                                                                                    I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.
                                                                                    It's worked. ND fans of all generations and types cling to it. Alumni and Subway Alumni alike. I could care less. Do whatever needs to be done to win National Championships.

                                                                                    If they think this structure is going to get them there, fine. Play an Indepedent schedule that consists of ACC teams, never get a playoff bye, keep playing the chop blocking service academies, fly all the way out to California every November.

                                                                                    They have said to us before time and again that not being in a conference means the goal is National Championship or bust. So do what is best for the program to get there. I think most ND fans are smart enough to know when they're having their heads pissed on and being told it's raining, but maybe not.
                                                                                    It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                      Auburn had beaten Georgia and Alabama that year by double double digits lol. It had a drastic effect on the playoff that year, it would have had a drastic effect on the expanded playoff. I guess a 1 pt line erases all of that lol.
                                                                                      It's not a 3-4 loss division winner stunning a top four team. Vegas had Georgia as a 1.5 chalk and they won. It's the SEC.

                                                                                      I'm talking chaos, here, man. Imagine 8-4 UVA beating Clemson, straight up, in a legit upset in the ACC Championship. That's actually memorable.

                                                                                      Most of these conference championship games are, and have been, complete garbage. And will continue to be. But hail the 13th data point.
                                                                                      It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                                                      • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                                                        That's because you aren't considering anything else besides the scheduling model. What about the television contract/always being televised, even against the weakest opponents? That is still a huge selling point. The conference only dictates 40% because Jack shrewdly negotiated a great deal with the ACC. We get to have our cake and eat it too but some people are too thick to see the inherent advantages of ND's current position.

                                                                                        The playoff expansion, as laid out, further strengthens ND's position and eliminates the 13th data point discussion. (I'd argue no reasonable person would bring it up after the Buckeyes being included last year but I digress). Jack has done incredibly well for ND, I hope the team can capitalize and win at least one title before his time is up. The clock is ticking...
                                                                                        We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

                                                                                        Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post

                                                                                          We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

                                                                                          Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.
                                                                                          To be fair, the ACC should be solid most years. Florida State and Miami are programs with a history of success. Once one or both of them get back on track, the ACC will look much better.
                                                                                          Based Mullet Kid owns

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post

                                                                                            To be fair, the ACC should be solid most years. Florida State and Miami are programs with a history of success. Once one or both of them get back on track, the ACC will look much better.
                                                                                            The ACC has been waiting for Miami to be better for a decade. Maybe they are finally on the upswing?

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post

                                                                                              To be fair, the ACC should be solid most years. Florida State and Miami are programs with a history of success. Once one or both of them get back on track, the ACC will look much better.
                                                                                              Which years, though? Clemson, FSU and VT have dominated the century so far in the ACC. Miami has won zero ACC Championships. They've won 2 of their last 13 bowl games. Anything they did, they did in the Big East or as an Independent going on at the earliest twenty plus years ago. That program has been down a long time.

                                                                                              The last team to win the ACC that wasn't Clemson, FSU or VT was Georgia Tech in 2009 and they had to vacate it. Wake got it in 2006 at 11-3.

                                                                                              It's a bunch of basketball schools, has beens and never will bes when it comes to college football, no?
                                                                                              It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post

                                                                                                The ACC has been waiting for Miami to be better for a decade. Maybe they are finally on the upswing?
                                                                                                They're shit and show no signs of not being shit. Enjoy it.
                                                                                                It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • Originally posted by TNUtoNotreDame View Post

                                                                                                  We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

                                                                                                  Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.
                                                                                                  Why the hell would you want access to a CCG after playing 62.5% of your games in a conference? ND can now play a top 12 team without having to play a top 2-4 team in the first round of the playoffs. With all conferences changing their scheduling practices to require more conference games, it necessitated a formal alliance with a conference. It used to be more open so that an independent school could pick and choose the schedule. The ACC matches ND more closely than any other conference - we make their conference more heavyweight and they supply us with quality opponents to schedule.

                                                                                                  My hope is we stop scheduling additional top 10 games for SOS points. With the 12 team system, it's almost pointless.

                                                                                                  100% independence makes it virtually impossible to schedule as you'd like.
                                                                                                  Joining a conference takes your television contract off the table.

                                                                                                  Your weak ass argument and dissatisfaction with Jack don't hold water. You do better.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                                                                    Why the hell would you want access to a CCG after playing 62.5% of your games in a conference? ND can now play a top 12 team without having to play a top 2-4 team in the first round of the playoffs. With all conferences changing their scheduling practices to require more conference games, it necessitated a formal alliance with a conference. It used to be more open so that an independent school could pick and choose the schedule. The ACC matches ND more closely than any other conference - we make their conference more heavyweight and they supply us with quality opponents to schedule.

                                                                                                    My hope is we stop scheduling additional top 10 games for SOS points. With the 12 team system, it's almost pointless.

                                                                                                    100% independence makes it virtually impossible to schedule as you'd like.
                                                                                                    Joining a conference takes your television contract off the table.

                                                                                                    Your weak ass argument and dissatisfaction with Jack don't hold water. You do better.
                                                                                                    Quality opponents. LOL. Yeah give me Duke and Wake Forest! I demand more BC!!!!! NBC demands more NC State!!!!

                                                                                                    FYI, the ACC would allow us to keep the NBC contract. Your boy Swarbrick is such a great negotiator that should be no problem.

                                                                                                    Do better.

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                                                                                                    • I have a hard time worrying about ND ever not being on TV every week. Is that really a thing? I've had YouTube TV for nearly two years and I have more than enough channels to where I see Wake Forest, Army, Fresno State, etc. and I live in the Midwest. Who the hell is watching these teams play?

                                                                                                      I think I recall ND being blacked out for a road game at Air Force when Weis was coach. This elusive channel the game was provided on wound up being CBS Sports Network, which I now have and once watched Florida Atlantic play Marshall on a few years ago.

                                                                                                      Conference or not, ND is going to be on TV because these dudes all know what's good for them.
                                                                                                      It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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