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  • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post

    Not really. JJ just plays a position that BK very rarely plays young players.
    When he has played them we need to go back and look at how on earth that unfolded (is it always injuries forced him to play them?).
    This is some revisionist history. There's lots of examples of freshmen WRs who have gotten PT or looks under BK. It's not usually a ton of PT, and it's usually situational, but that's pretty normal especially considering the fact that we're not routinely pulling in 5 star WRs, that's really not surprising that 4 stars who have been in the program are beating out 4 stars that haven't.

    People used to say the same thing about running back, our recruiting got better, and suddenly no one seems to think BK hates every freshman RB.

    The real issue is that our recruiting at this position isn't up to par with the rest of the program. The fact that we're still routinely talking about how talented Kevin Stepherson was is a sad commentary on how desperate we are for an electric reciever.

    Funnier than you in 2012.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by greyhammer90 View Post

      This is some revisionist history. There's lots of examples of freshmen WRs who have gotten PT or looks under BK. It's not usually a ton of PT, and it's usually situational, but that's pretty normal especially considering the fact that we're not routinely pulling in 5 star WRs, that's really not surprising that 4 stars who have been in the program are beating out 4 stars that haven't.

      People used to say the same thing about running back, our recruiting got better, and suddenly no one seems to think BK hates every freshman RB.

      The real issue is that our recruiting at this position isn't up to par with the rest of the program. The fact that we're still routinely talking about how talented Kevin Stepherson was is a sad commentary on how desperate we are for an electric reciever.
      And the three receiver max cap and a few somewhat recent public statements by receiver recruits that they never spoke with certain coaches has not helped the perception.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

        The problem is that JJ wasn't a burner. So what special route could he have run that our other WRs couldn't? Chris Brown busted out some vertical routes, so did Fuller and Stepherson to a lesser degree.
        It doesn't have to be a vertical route and it's not always about the young player doing something better than someone else.

        Is it that hard to imagine a set/formation including a young player that has a few different options to it and let said player focus on that particular set only? For example, if you have 12 personnel with a young WR on the wide side. You could have 3/4 different run plays out of the formation, 3/4 pass plays when he is in the game. As the year moves on, maybe that expands to 5/6 plays each. Either way, you are getting the player involved and shows that you are trying to develop them. I am not sure anyone is saying they need to be out there for 20 snaps a game.

        Think about what Chris Brown did in 2012. The kid played in all games that year and made two catches, his first being the huge post play against OU that really started to seal it for the Irish. That play worked because OU had seen random WR with 13 personnel and ND always ran it. Except the one time they didn't. It was glorious. But it worked because of everything they had shown that year up to that point. So you can both strategically game plan and develop the young guys at the same time. BK has done that before. But he hasn't done it nearly as much the last few years and with the transfers, busts and whatever else you want to throw out, ND has a really big hole at WR this year. It was preventable.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post

          It doesn't have to be a vertical route and it's not always about the young player doing something better than someone else.

          Is it that hard to imagine a set/formation including a young player that has a few different options to it and let said player focus on that particular set only? For example, if you have 12 personnel with a young WR on the wide side. You could have 3/4 different run plays out of the formation, 3/4 pass plays when he is in the game. As the year moves on, maybe that expands to 5/6 plays each. Either way, you are getting the player involved and shows that you are trying to develop them. I am not sure anyone is saying they need to be out there for 20 snaps a game.

          Think about what Chris Brown did in 2012. The kid played in all games that year and made two catches, his first being the huge post play against OU that really started to seal it for the Irish. That play worked because OU had seen random WR with 13 personnel and ND always ran it. Except the one time they didn't. It was glorious. But it worked because of everything they had shown that year up to that point. So you can both strategically game plan and develop the young guys at the same time. BK has done that before. But he hasn't done it nearly as much the last few years and with the transfers, busts and whatever else you want to throw out, ND has a really big hole at WR this year. It was preventable.
          Imagining something and determining if something is the best for the program are two different things entirely. You bring up Chris Brown (which Kelly and his staff did) and then dismiss it in the same paragraph. The staff plays the players who can help.

          How was it preventable? Kelly and staff don't believe you should push a kid out on the field if they aren't ready. IF they are really talented, usually they'll get some snaps to prove it on the field. We haven't recruited well enough to have young guys steal reps right away @WR. Even Kyren, who was incredible for us, took a full year in the program.

          And why did 'Kelly' play Michael Mayer over the other established options in the program? What about Tyree? We had like 5 RBs going into fall camp but Tyree was #2 last year.

          Comment


          • I do believe this entire thing is being overdone. I think JJ wanted playing time. I think BK did his normal "traits" thing. I do also believe JJ was not as great as advertised by the recruiting services but could become a 1st round pick later in his career, thus, leaving him to battle several people faster, bigger, as athletic, and more experienced than him. He just simply was not in the right program at the right time. I can see him at a Mizzou or at a K-State tearing it up.

            I'd also like to address Driskell's dum dum azz. He is so bitter about BK it makes me sick to listen to him anymore. And he never gives Vince an opportunity to talk. He had a lot to say about this and as if he really has an inside source on how the entire operation works in side ND Football. It was almost laughable. That is all...
            I used to be D-BOE34 but I can't login for some reason. Will someone donate some vBucks?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

              Imagining something and determining if something is the best for the program are two different things entirely. You bring up Chris Brown (which Kelly and his staff did) and then dismiss it in the same paragraph. The staff plays the players who can help.

              How was it preventable? Kelly and staff don't believe you should push a kid out on the field if they aren't ready. IF they are really talented, usually they'll get some snaps to prove it on the field. We haven't recruited well enough to have young guys steal reps right away @WR. Even Kyren, who was incredible for us, took a full year in the program.

              And why did 'Kelly' play Michael Mayer over the other established options in the program? What about Tyree? We had like 5 RBs going into fall camp but Tyree was #2 last year.
              So you think last year there was no earthly way that getting Watts, Johnson or Brunelle involved even in the slightest (Watts and Johnson "appeared" in 2 games each, none for JB) would make the program better? Hell, Jafar Armstrong got time at WR at various points throughout the year. How was that in the best interest of the program?

              The Chris Brown example is what should be happening each year. Nobody is saying that freshman WR's need to get thrown 3-5 balls a game. But getting them worked into the game throughout the year pays dividends both in the current year and in the long run. I honestly don't see what is controversial about that, especially at a position with the lack of established depth ND has at WR.

              Comment


              • I think if you look around the country, with some exception, this really isn’t too hard of a nut to crack. The OU, OSUs of the world have 3 stars that never do anything. They have 5 stars that are busts. But the VOLUME of 5 star type WRs is higher and therefore 2 guys emerging per year isn’t really that difficult. Austin, Colzie, Styles and JJ are ones that approach that territory. The 2019 class is truly the killer. ‘18 I will give one final pass to Austin could have had some damn bad luck and hopefully we see that talent this fall. 2020 you missed on JJ, alright move on. 2021 we believe in Colzie and Styles. It’s that it was 1 in 18 and 1 in 20 and 0 in 2019 class that left virtually ZERO margin for error in Kevin Austin. 2 per class needs to be the expectation. You will 100% have busts but you need basically 1 per class to pan out to field a Playoff WR core

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                  I think if you look around the country, with some exception, this really isn’t too hard of a nut to crack. The OU, OSUs of the world have 3 stars that never do anything. They have 5 stars that are busts. But the VOLUME of 5 star type WRs is higher and therefore 2 guys emerging per year isn’t really that difficult. Austin, Colzie, Styles and JJ are ones that approach that territory. The 2019 class is truly the killer. ‘18 I will give one final pass to Austin could have had some damn bad luck and hopefully we see that talent this fall. 2020 you missed on JJ, alright move on. 2021 we believe in Colzie and Styles. It’s that it was 1 in 18 and 1 in 20 and 0 in 2019 class that left virtually ZERO margin for error in Kevin Austin. 2 per class needs to be the expectation. You will 100% have busts but you need basically 1 per class to pan out to field a Playoff WR core
                  Agree with this. But at OSU last year for example, they still found a way to work in their young guys over the last few games of the year. Yes, those guys top 100 level players. But Olave and Wilson are probably, at worst, 1-3rd round draft picks. So they are not taking time away from slouches.

                  Sure, anyone or all 3 of the young guys could bust. But that doesn't stop them from pushing them slowly into the games. They want to see them in action.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post

                    Agree with this. But at OSU last year for example, they still found a way to work in their young guys over the last few games of the year. Yes, those guys top 100 level players. But Olave and Wilson are probably, at worst, 1-3rd round draft picks. So they are not taking time away from slouches.

                    Sure, anyone or all 3 of the young guys could bust. But that doesn't stop them from pushing them slowly into the games. They want to see them in action.
                    The two underclassmen that saw catches were Williams and Smith-Njiba and one is transferring because he thinks he was underused.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                      The two underclassmen that saw catches were Williams and Smith-Njiba and one is transferring because he thinks he was underused.
                      And Fleming.

                      He is transferring to Alabama too. But this is a whole different animal. He could legit start at Bama versus being WR4 at OSU next year.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post

                        And Fleming.

                        He is transferring to Alabama too. But this is a whole different animal. He could legit start at Bama versus being WR4 at OSU next year.
                        I didn’t include Fleming since his contribution was mainly when Olave was out, it also doesn’t necessarily help the play them a bit point because he has transfer rumors circulating as well. So that could be 2/3 WRs they “worked in” that said nah that’s not enough there’s new guys coming too I’m out. The talent level is certainly different but the point to integrate them a bit is the same, and doesn’t necessarily avoid a disgruntled Spring transfer. That circles back to where I think the volume just needs to be higher, because JJs will continue to happen, just need someone else to balance it out

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                          I didn’t include Fleming since his contribution was mainly when Olave was out, it also doesn’t necessarily help the play them a bit point because he has transfer rumors circulating as well. So that could be 2/3 WRs they “worked in” that said nah that’s not enough there’s new guys coming too I’m out. The talent level is certainly different but the point to integrate them a bit is the same, and doesn’t necessarily avoid a disgruntled Spring transfer. That circles back to where I think the volume just needs to be higher, because JJs will continue to happen, just need someone else to balance it out
                          Understand your point, not disagreeing on recruiting. But ND needs to do something different because even with enhanced recruiting, the experienced depth issue we are going to see this year wouldn't be any different. The last few years have been really thin with WR rotation.

                          Example, swapping out Austin for Colzie for a few plays a game isn't really different in my book of swapping out Watts for Keys/Avery Davis last year. Talent levels are about the same either way.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post

                            Understand your point, not disagreeing on recruiting. But ND needs to do something different because even with enhanced recruiting, the experienced depth issue we are going to see this year wouldn't be any different. The last few years have been really thin with WR rotation.

                            Example, swapping out Austin for Colzie for a few plays a game isn't really different in my book of swapping out Watts for Keys/Avery Davis last year. Talent levels are about the same either way.
                            I think you are finally coming around to the true problem: we haven't added enough talented WRs every year. This has nothing to do with snaps. What the hell would 15 snaps have done for a receiver? And why do you believe you know more than the staff?

                            Here's what we can say: JJ wasn't an immediate difference maker. Almost a year into the program, he played in his first BG game and the staff called a play for him and he ran it incorrectly. That's a very small sample size. If that's what you see as a coach in practice, then how TF are you supposed to put him in a real game? I'm sure he's good in 1v1 situations. He looks smooth and it always appeared he could create some separation without being a true burner.

                            I hope Lo Styles gets snaps if he can help and be assignment sound. Same for X Watts, Brunelle, Colzie, Thomas. But the staff are putting guys in the league and they are developing their players. This isn't a development issue. This is a RECRUITING TALENT issue. It's a more extreme example of what happened on OL. As Hiestand was leaving, his recruiting took a massive plunge, then Quinn took over and brought in some good prospects but not enough. 2020 he brought in two players after having 3-4 transfer out in the classes prior. Now we need freshmen to hit, fortunately we recruited true blue chip immediate difference makers and we have a little more talent from past classes and hopefully enough depth.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DONALDIII View Post
                              I'd also like to address Driskell's dum dum azz. He is so bitter about BK it makes me sick to listen to him anymore. And he never gives Vince an opportunity to talk. He had a lot to say about this and as if he really has an inside source on how the entire operation works in side ND Football. It was almost laughable. That is all...
                              Agreed. I always wonder who his audience consists of? He claims he's open minded and wants to discuss issues but he beats the same drum over and over whenever he gets a data point for his preconceived ideas. Remember when Derrik Allen transferred? "Kelly and Co should've played him". Go look at what he's done at Ga Tech. And I hate this because we have to throw shade on a player to make a point. From everything I read D Allen was respectful throughout the process.

                              There is a reason CoachD isn't a coach. He should change his handle to: FailedCoachD or ReporterD. He couldn't move from D3 and Kelly is coaching at the top of CFB.

                              He's also still claiming Quinn isn't teaching the OL well enough. After the just took the same guys blocking in 2019 and turned 3 of them into NFL draft picks (2nd,2nd,3rd?) and one FA. Of course we're going to be rebuilding across the OL. I really wish he'd lose his job at Maven but I don't know who'd be there to move in and take over.

                              Fortunately for ND fans, we have enough content choices and the cream rises to the top: The Athletic, Irish Illustrated, ISD, BG and of course our favorite site IE.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                What the hell would 15 snaps have done for a receiver?
                                Impact on the scoreboard, probably nothing. But the benefits are comfort and familiarity in the playbook and live action. These kids minds have to be going a mile a minute the first few times they step on the field. Those few snaps can help them get accustomed to the play calling and environment where their thoughts are solely on the play and not everything else.

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                                • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post
                                  Then the staff didn't a very good job with the eval, did they?
                                  nor did the recruiting sites and everyone else such as bama, osu, etc as they offered him (don't know if it was committable) ...but this is too be determined...but from what we have, everyone did
                                  EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                  • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                    Impact on the scoreboard, probably nothing. But the benefits are comfort and familiarity in the playbook and live action. These kids minds have to be going a mile a minute the first few times they step on the field. Those few snaps can help them get accustomed to the play calling and environment where their thoughts are solely on the play and not everything else.
                                    Ok, so we'd have helped JJ acclimate so he'd be better prepared to play minutes at his next school? I mean this sincerely. Again, how is the staff supposed to force a guy into action when he isn't assignment correct? Or if he hasn't shown that he's fully locked in? I loved watching JJ on the sidelines last year and I was hoping he'd break out this year but his transfer isn't on the staff. You can't be everything to everyone, sometimes it's just not a compatible situation.

                                    Again, I hope the staff finds ways to use our young guys more this season but I trust the judgement because they seem like they know what they are doing. Not to mention we have had no media viewings of practice since JJ stepped on campus. Think about that. No one knows better what he was capable of day in and day out than the staff and media can't even guess other than inside sources and 3 min clips of practice.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                      I didn’t include Fleming since his contribution was mainly when Olave was out, it also doesn’t necessarily help the play them a bit point because he has transfer rumors circulating as well. So that could be 2/3 WRs they “worked in” that said nah that’s not enough there’s new guys coming too I’m out. The talent level is certainly different but the point to integrate them a bit is the same, and doesn’t necessarily avoid a disgruntled Spring transfer. That circles back to where I think the volume just needs to be higher, because JJs will continue to happen, just need someone else to balance it out
                                      he isn't transferring, he was injured all last year with a shoulder injury he has had since sometime in high school....the kid lives 10mins from house and if there were ANY real rumors trust me, the town would know
                                      EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                      • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                        I think if you look around the country, with some exception, this really isn’t too hard of a nut to crack. The OU, OSUs of the world have 3 stars that never do anything. They have 5 stars that are busts. But the VOLUME of 5 star type WRs is higher and therefore 2 guys emerging per year isn’t really that difficult. Austin, Colzie, Styles and JJ are ones that approach that territory. The 2019 class is truly the killer. ‘18 I will give one final pass to Austin could have had some damn bad luck and hopefully we see that talent this fall. 2020 you missed on JJ, alright move on. 2021 we believe in Colzie and Styles. It’s that it was 1 in 18 and 1 in 20 and 0 in 2019 class that left virtually ZERO margin for error in Kevin Austin. 2 per class needs to be the expectation. You will 100% have busts but you need basically 1 per class to pan out to field a Playoff WR core
                                        Everybody keeps forgetting Jayden Thomas in the current WR uproar, which means he's destined to be the most steady and reliable contributor from the class lol

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                          I think you are finally coming around to the true problem: we haven't added enough talented WRs every year. This has nothing to do with snaps. What the hell would 15 snaps have done for a receiver? And why do you believe you know more than the staff?

                                          Here's what we can say: JJ wasn't an immediate difference maker. Almost a year into the program, he played in his first BG game and the staff called a play for him and he ran it incorrectly. That's a very small sample size. If that's what you see as a coach in practice, then how TF are you supposed to put him in a real game? I'm sure he's good in 1v1 situations. He looks smooth and it always appeared he could create some separation without being a true burner.

                                          I hope Lo Styles gets snaps if he can help and be assignment sound. Same for X Watts, Brunelle, Colzie, Thomas. But the staff are putting guys in the league and they are developing their players. This isn't a development issue. This is a RECRUITING TALENT issue. It's a more extreme example of what happened on OL. As Hiestand was leaving, his recruiting took a massive plunge, then Quinn took over and brought in some good prospects but not enough. 2020 he brought in two players after having 3-4 transfer out in the classes prior. Now we need freshmen to hit, fortunately we recruited true blue chip immediate difference makers and we have a little more talent from past classes and hopefully enough depth.
                                          I thought it was widely known that everyone knows more than the staff.
                                          60% of the time, it works every time.

                                          Comment


                                          • Nothing new under the sun. A young man trying to figure out his life, determining what path works best for him. One door closes. Another opens. The same for the player who is poised to take his spot long term.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by DONALDIII View Post
                                              I'd also like to address Driskell's dum dum azz. He is so bitter about BK it makes me sick to listen to him anymore. And he never gives Vince an opportunity to talk. He had a lot to say about this and as if he really has an inside source on how the entire operation works in side ND Football. It was almost laughable. That is all...
                                              He's bitter in general, and an asshole. He treated his Twitter followers like dog crap and people kept going back for more. A very arrogant individual who if he was half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be coaching somewhere.
                                              It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                Ok, so we'd have helped JJ acclimate so he'd be better prepared to play minutes at his next school? I mean this sincerely. Again, how is the staff supposed to force a guy into action when he isn't assignment correct? Or if he hasn't shown that he's fully locked in? I loved watching JJ on the sidelines last year and I was hoping he'd break out this year but his transfer isn't on the staff. You can't be everything to everyone, sometimes it's just not a compatible situation.

                                                Again, I hope the staff finds ways to use our young guys more this season but I trust the judgement because they seem like they know what they are doing. Not to mention we have had no media viewings of practice since JJ stepped on campus. Think about that. No one knows better what he was capable of day in and day out than the staff and media can't even guess other than inside sources and 3 min clips of practice.
                                                I was talking about freshmen in general that are showing the traits of developing. Not someone like JJ.

                                                Many moons ago, I was coaching a youth FB all-star team. It was made up of the best from the league. I was excited because I got one boy who was the fastest in the league. We practiced for two weeks before our first game. No matter how much we ran it in practice, he could not remember any play except for a jet sweep, which apparently is all they ran for him during the season. In the second half we call for a simple off tackle. QB hands him the ball and he freezes in the backfield. His dad pulled him from the team because he wasn't getting more playing time. lol

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                  I was talking about freshmen in general that are showing the traits of developing. Not someone like JJ.

                                                  Many moons ago, I was coaching a youth FB all-star team. It was made up of the best from the league. I was excited because I got one boy who was the fastest in the league. We practiced for two weeks before our first game. No matter how much we ran it in practice, he could not remember any play except for a jet sweep, which apparently is all they ran for him during the season. In the second half we call for a simple off tackle. QB hands him the ball and he freezes in the backfield. His dad pulled him from the team because he wasn't getting more playing time. lol
                                                  Should have called a jet sweep.
                                                  "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                    The problem is that JJ wasn't a burner. So what special route could he have run that our other WRs couldn't? Chris Brown busted out some vertical routes, so did Fuller and Stepherson to a lesser degree.
                                                    My guess would be short distance/ red zone with his size.
                                                    The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

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                                                    • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                      For a 3-9 team not coached by Kelly that was the victim of the previous staff's utter recruiting neglect and failure. Tate got out there out of necessity more than anything else. Stovall, Samardzija and McKnight were all gone.

                                                      There are plenty of guys who can't do the job even when you draw something up in the dirt. Again, if you're the 28th best player in America and truly that, they're going to find a way to get you on the field if you can cut it.

                                                      I think he didn't cut it and quite a bit of that is his fault.
                                                      Agree completely on Golden. We aren't at practice and don't know what JJ could or couldn't do, but it doesn't help the narrative of WRs don't play at ND until their junior or senior year. Because that ain't the case at the Big 3 (Bama, Clemson, Ohio St).
                                                      The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

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                                                      • Originally posted by NDRock View Post

                                                        Should have called a jet sweep.
                                                        Lol

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                                                        • Do we want to win games or keep freshmen happy?

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                                                          • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post

                                                            My guess would be short distance/ red zone with his size.
                                                            with his size? how tall you think he is??? he's 6'1 at best....red zone is not the time to toss a freshman in unless they are some huge target which he isn't
                                                            EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                                            • Im sorry... but if the kid cant remember a play specifically designed to go to him after an intense period of training during spring ball.... no way Kelly puts him on the field. Knowing the plays and not executing is one thing. Not knowing the play is coming to you after you leave the huddle is a



                                                              Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; Yesterday, 07:41 AM.
                                                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                                              • serious question.....for those clamoring for JJ to have played last year or continue to beat the drum of finding ways for him to get in......did you play football? reason i ask is because if you were on the team and are busting your ass to learn the playbook, school, doing whatever is asked from you at practice then you don't play; however here is a kid that had academic issues, didn't show up prepared at the blue/gold game but yet he should have playing time carved out for him....how do you think that goes over w/ others doing the right thing ..it's bad for the culture
                                                                EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                                                • Originally posted by PANDFAN View Post
                                                                  serious question.....for those clamoring for JJ to have played last year or continue to beat the drum of finding ways for him to get in......did you play football? reason i ask is because if you were on the team and are busting your ass to learn the playbook, school, doing whatever is asked from you at practice then you don't play; however here is a kid that had academic issues, didn't show up prepared at the blue/gold game but yet he should have playing time carved out for him....how do you think that goes over w/ others doing the right thing ..it's bad for the culture
                                                                  I already said earlier but the blue and gold game thing is frankly, a cheap shot. He was clearly already planning to transfer at that point. Critiquing a spring game performance is already a stretch but critiquing the performance of someone just seeing it through to the end of spring is just not valuable takeaway to me

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                    I already said earlier but the blue and gold game thing is frankly, a cheap shot. He was clearly already planning to transfer at that point. Critiquing a spring game performance is already a stretch but critiquing the performance of someone just seeing it through to the end of spring is just not valuable takeaway to me
                                                                    I may have missed it and apologize in advance but is there a source for the claim he was "clearly" transferring?
                                                                    "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                                                      I may have missed it and apologize in advance but is there a source for the claim he was "clearly" transferring?
                                                                      No nothing to confirm that but I don’t see ND having a graphic ready for him to fire off Monday morning and JJ making the decision in a 36 hour span without some prior conversation. I am making assumptions, which definitely ironic considering my post, but I can see it being a case where he already talked to the staff at least days prior and maybe they said hey see it through or see how you feel after the spring game and if still the same then we’ll take the next step, or something to that effect.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                        No nothing to confirm that but I don’t see ND having a graphic ready for him to fire off Monday morning and JJ making the decision in a 36 hour span without some prior conversation. I am making assumptions, which definitely ironic considering my post, but I can see it being a case where he already talked to the staff at least days prior and maybe they said hey see it through or see how you feel after the spring game and if still the same then we’ll take the next step, or something to that effect.
                                                                        Ok... I think there were plenty of red flags in the air by the time of the game but if anyhting the spring game reinforced that he just wasnt ready for sure and didnt make the improvements needed during the spring period and that playing time would not be forthcoming.
                                                                        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                          No nothing to confirm that but I don’t see ND having a graphic ready for him to fire off Monday morning and JJ making the decision in a 36 hour span without some prior conversation. I am making assumptions, which definitely ironic considering my post, but I can see it being a case where he already talked to the staff at least days prior and maybe they said hey see it through or see how you feel after the spring game and if still the same then we’ll take the next step, or something to that effect.
                                                                          so then your whole point goes out the window...if this had been all orchestrated prior to blue/gold then why would BK play him at all or call a designed play for him???? makes no sense unless you are trying to showcase his potential to another team or you're throwing a bone to a kid for putting time into the program but either way you slice it, he wasn't prepared/locked in/focused or as BK famously says,....."traits" and doing the little things and up to this point, he has struggled with this per BK...but that is what we know, not assume
                                                                          EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                                                          • Originally posted by PANDFAN View Post

                                                                            so then your whole point goes out the window...if this had been all orchestrated prior to blue/gold then why would BK play him at all or call a designed play for him???? makes no sense unless you are trying to showcase his potential to another team or you're throwing a bone to a kid for putting time into the program but either way you slice it, he wasn't prepared/locked in/focused or as BK famously says,....."traits" and doing the little things and up to this point, he has struggled with this per BK...but that is what we know, not assume
                                                                            My whole point is giving hyper credence to a spring game, at any point but certainly not in this case, it’s not nearly relevant enough to phrase it as hand in hand with “academic issues”. If you want to reference practice all of that sure it’s worth referencing but implying a spring game performance is clear evidence that JJ would be contributing to poor team culture? That’s just hyperbole

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                                                                            • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                              My whole point is giving hyper credence to a spring game, at any point but certainly not in this case, it’s not nearly relevant enough to phrase it as hand in hand with “academic issues”. If you want to reference practice all of that sure it’s worth referencing but implying a spring game performance is clear evidence that JJ would be contributing to poor team culture? That’s just hyperbole
                                                                              It's not hyperbole, it's another data point in a trend that backs up what the staff has been saying. I love JJ, from all accounts he's a good kid and he tried to make it work. It could've been the balance was so difficult that a change of scenery is exactly what is needed. I have no doubt JJ can put up numbers at his next landing spot. He was not ready to do that at ND so this separation will be better for both parties. I wanted him to breakthrough, I wanted things to click and I was high on JJ (going as far as comparing him to Marvin Harrison).

                                                                              It wasn't meant to be. The staff need to fill out the 22 class with immediate contributors and some of Styles, Colzie, Thomas, Brunelle and Watts need to earn snaps this fall. There were too many whiffs in the middle classes so they need to mature quickly and eat the playbook every. single. day.

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                                                                              • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                                                                I may have missed it and apologize in advance but is there a source for the claim he was "clearly" transferring?
                                                                                Some dudes in this thread
                                                                                60% of the time, it works every time.

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                                                                                • If JJ didn't come in as a 5* recruit would this be a big deal?

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                                                                                  • Originally posted by PANDFAN View Post

                                                                                    with his size? how tall you think he is??? he's 6'1 at best....red zone is not the time to toss a freshman in unless they are some huge target which he isn't
                                                                                    Agree to disagree depending on skill and who's defending the WR. Point is a freshman doesn't have to know everything to contribute to the offense.
                                                                                    The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by calvegas04 View Post
                                                                                      Do we want to win games or keep freshmen happy?
                                                                                      Win games and get freshmen on the field because they're talented enough and ready to contribute. We should all sit back and look at this from a recruit/ parent perspective:

                                                                                      ND is good enough to get into the playoff twice in the past few years, but why can all the other big boys (Bama, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma) get freshman WR's on the field and ND can't? I thought all the smart kids went to ND? And if my kid is that good, why does he have to wait until his junior year to get on the field?
                                                                                      The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

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                                                                                      • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post

                                                                                        Win games and get freshmen on the field because they're talented enough and ready to contribute. We should all sit back and look at this from a recruit/ parent perspective:

                                                                                        ND is good enough to get into the playoff twice in the past few years, but why can all the other big boys (Bama, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma) get freshman WR's on the field and ND can't? I thought all the smart kids went to ND? And if my kid is that good, why does he have to wait until his junior year to get on the field?
                                                                                        The big boys can get 10% or less on the field as true freshman. And guess what, they stack 5 stars at an absurd rate. We need 2-3 top 75 players/class if we want 1 to see the field in a meaningful way. Stop this narrative.

                                                                                        Sign more top end talent, find more that are capable of contributing immediately. Sign less, get less.

                                                                                        We are doing incredibly well considering our other blue chippers (Tyree, Mayer) in 2020 shared big roles as freshman and both are poised to take big steps this year.

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post

                                                                                          Win games and get freshmen on the field because they're talented enough and ready to contribute. We should all sit back and look at this from a recruit/ parent perspective:

                                                                                          ND is good enough to get into the playoff twice in the past few years, but why can all the other big boys (Bama, Clemson, OSU, Oklahoma) get freshman WR's on the field and ND can't? I thought all the smart kids went to ND? And if my kid is that good, why does he have to wait until his junior year to get on the field?
                                                                                          Considering the number of 5 star kids they get every year compared to ND, this isn't a surprise. The more you have the better the chance a freshman or two sees the field, right? The spring game may have been the straw that broke the camels back, but it wasn't the sole reason for his decision.

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                                                                                          • https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/14919...-thursday(free article)

                                                                                            It says a lot about his time with the program that the only two on field plays he’ll be remembered for will be him punching a guy against South Florida and blocking when he was supposed to be receiving a screen pass in the spring game. Despite the potential he showed as a recruit, it never materialized for him at Notre Dame and that doesn’t even get into off the field issues that were part of his time in South Bend.

                                                                                            The frustration with the individual case of Johnson and not playing as a freshman is misguided. There were reasons (plural) why he shouldn’t have been on the field. The concerns about the future at wide receiver are completely understandable.

                                                                                            EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by PANDFAN View Post
                                                                                              https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/14919...-thursday(free article)

                                                                                              It says a lot about his time with the program that the only two on field plays he’ll be remembered for will be him punching a guy against South Florida and blocking when he was supposed to be receiving a screen pass in the spring game. Despite the potential he showed as a recruit, it never materialized for him at Notre Dame and that doesn’t even get into off the field issues that were part of his time in South Bend.

                                                                                              The frustration with the individual case of Johnson and not playing as a freshman is misguided. There were reasons (plural) why he shouldn’t have been on the field. The concerns about the future at wide receiver are completely understandable.
                                                                                              Thanks for posting, that is a very good take and actually puts everything in perspective quickly.
                                                                                              Love You JB 64.....RIP.....AI720....4EVER

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