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2022 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

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  • Originally posted by benneboy View Post
    It's still too early to make that call one way or the other, but according to your stats he put together the 3rd best statistical season in the decade in his first season as the OC. He did so with a piecemeal wr core.
    Chip Long gave Kelly his 2nd best statistical season in 2017, but we all saw how that turned out.

    Now we'll have to see if he can do it with a piecemeal offensive line. If he can match last year's production, or somehow exceed it, I'd think we'd have to be pretty happy about that.
    As an alum who's fandom only really began in 2002 with O'Leary's resume scandal, I've been "pretty happy" since 2010. But ND fans are legitimately excited about Freeman's defense. Wish I could say the same for Rees' offense. That's where we really need the help.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

      Chip Long gave Kelly his 2nd best statistical season in 2017, but we all saw how that turned out.



      As an alum who's fandom only really began in 2002 with O'Leary's resume scandal, I've been "pretty happy" since 2010. But ND fans are legitimately excited about Freeman's defense. Wish I could say the same for Rees' offense. That's where we really need the help.
      To play devils advocate, we haven’t seen “Freeman’s defense”. We’ve seen Freeman’s recruiting.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dale View Post
        To play devils advocate, we haven’t seen “Freeman’s defense”. We’ve seen Freeman’s recruiting.
        That's fair, but I'm not making a "stone cold lock of the century... of the week" style prediction that Freeman is going to be our Brent Venables, take us to the promised land, and eventually replace Kelly. It could happen, but that's besides the point.

        Some are suggesting that fans are being too hard on Rees in light of Freeman's recent recruiting success. The point of my post was to explain: (1) that anxiety about the trajectory of our offense is well-founded; and (2) that Rees hasn't done much to relieve that anxiety. For a 1st year OC, he definitely over-performed. But we need a lot of help on that side of the ball, and I'm not confident Rees can do what needs to be done there yet. Hope I'm wrong.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

          Chip Long gave Kelly his 2nd best statistical season in 2017, but we all saw how that turned out.



          As an alum who's fandom only really began in 2002 with O'Leary's resume scandal, I've been "pretty happy" since 2010. But ND fans are legitimately excited about Freeman's defense. Wish I could say the same for Rees' offense. That's where we really need the help.
          TIL that Whiskeyjack is likely only around 40 years old.
          Based Mullet Kid owns

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post

            TIL that Whiskeyjack is likely only around 40 years old.
            37, bruh. I'm not officially "old" for three more years.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dale View Post

              To play devils advocate, we haven’t seen “Freeman’s defense”. We’ve seen Freeman’s recruiting.
              As a Miami alum, I've seen all of his defenses I need to see. We've got a 4 year track record at Chili Tech, we had nothing on Tommy when we inherited him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                That's fair, but I'm not making a "stone cold lock of the century... of the week" style prediction that Freeman is going to be our Brent Venables, take us to the promised land, and eventually replace Kelly. It could happen, but that's besides the point.

                Some are suggesting that fans are being too hard on Rees in light of Freeman's recent recruiting success. The point of my post was to explain: (1) that anxiety about the trajectory of our offense is well-founded; and (2) that Rees hasn't done much to relieve that anxiety. For a 1st year OC, he definitely over-performed. But we need a lot of help on that side of the ball, and I'm not confident Rees can do what needs to be done there yet. Hope I'm wrong.
                You say Rees outperformed as a first year OC and Rees by his own quotes is extremely knowledgeable in the modern game and knows what needs to change. The two things that are uncertain are A) Implementing said changes B) recruiting.

                On A) we will have to see. Not much more can say on that.

                On B) The 2021 class recruited at a 69% BCR with a Top 100 QB and 2 Top 150 WRs. The 2022 class, if we assume Williams and Merriweather (certainly a big if still), in 2022 that # would be at 70% at that point with again 2 Top 150 WRs. Not bad eh?

                Now A is fair to be skeptical about and B, there is some question on process and projecting what that process will lead to in the future, but there’s stuff there to also see a continued improvement

                Comment


                • Originally posted by benneboy View Post

                  It's still too early to make that call one way or the other, but according to your stats he put together the 3rd best statistical season in the decade in his first season as the OC. He did so with a piecemeal wr core.

                  Now we'll have to see if he can do it with a piecemeal offensive line. If he can match last year's production, or somehow exceed it, I'd think we'd have to be pretty happy about that.
                  For me, though, style matters. If ND puts together another good offense but does it without opening up the passing game I won’t be excited about it. If they want to swing for the fences they need to develop tools to challenge defenses that they can’t just out-talent in the trenches.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                    You say Rees outperformed as a first year OC and Rees by his own quotes is extremely knowledgeable in the modern game and knows what needs to change. The two things that are uncertain are A) Implementing said changes B) recruiting.

                    On A) we will have to see. Not much more can say on that.

                    On B) The 2021 class recruited at a 69% BCR with a Top 100 QB and 2 Top 150 WRs. The 2022 class, if we assume Williams and Merriweather (certainly a big if still), in 2022 that # would be at 70% at that point with again 2 Top 150 WRs. Not bad eh?

                    Now A is fair to be skeptical about and B, there is some question on process and projecting what that process will lead to in the future, but there’s stuff there to also see a continued improvement
                    Did I give you the impression that I'm freaking out about our offensive recruiting?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                      Did I give you the impression that I'm freaking out about our offensive recruiting?

                      No. Didn’t think I conveyed a tone of less than calm, just expressing a possible opposite view point. It is the “state of the recruiting class” thread.

                      Comment


                      • I really hope we get to judge Rees when he has a full roster of guys he recruited for the offense he wants to run.
                        Prehistoric

                        Comment


                        • Rees has a lot to prove and I hope he gets the time to do so. But, I'm in 100% show me mode for offensive recruiting and coaching. I was a fan of the hire and I've given him credit where credit is due. But, there are plenty of reasons for criticism at this point. Too much to ignore and hopefully those are all being addressed and we start to see the results soon.

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                          • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post
                            I really hope we get to judge Rees when he has a full roster of guys he recruited for the offense he wants to run.
                            That's where I'm at. Last year he really overperformed given his top 2 WRs going into the season were hurt (Austin, Lenzy) and his QB wouldn't pull the trigger on open players downfield. Plus, our RBs were a giant question mark going into the year. Last year still had a lot of great memories and we're solidifying our position in the top 6-8, now we just need to take another step.

                            Rees knows this offense has to be different this year, I'm really excited to see how he puts the pieces together. He has a lot of talent to use and he knows what we can expect from the RBs and TEs. Now we'll see who wants to step up in the WR, OL and QB rooms.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                              It's a little more than that. Despite coming in with the reputation of a 4-vert spread guru who could "manufacture offense" at will, Kelly's hallmark at ND has been defense.
                              That's because BK knows you need a very good D when you step up to the next level.

                              Unfortunately for Tommy (who is not outspoken), BK hired a DC with a rah rah salesman personality and is being unfairly judged by that.
                              Last edited by Irish#1; 07-13-2021, 01:58 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                That's where I'm at. Last year he really overperformed given his top 2 WRs going into the season were hurt (Austin, Lenzy) and his QB wouldn't pull the trigger on open players downfield. Plus, our RBs were a giant question mark going into the year. Last year still had a lot of great memories and we're solidifying our position in the top 6-8, now we just need to take another step.

                                Rees knows this offense has to be different this year, I'm really excited to see how he puts the pieces together. He has a lot of talent to use and he knows what we can expect from the RBs and TEs. Now we'll see who wants to step up in the WR, OL and QB rooms.
                                Some of that is coaching, right? He's been the QB coach since 2017. Did Book improve on the things he didn't do well from back in 2018? Did his pocket presence get better? Did he get better at going through is progressions and moving the offense from the pocket? Or, did Rees just let him do what he was good at? Which is fine but it doesn't really show much coaching and give us reasons to expect the next QB will improve due to Rees, right? FWIW, all of Ian's meaningful stats were worse, in 2020, than they were in 2018, and some of them cratered in 2019.

                                Those things don't give me optimism that the next QB that he coaches for a few years will be any different. But, I'm willing to give him time to figure it out with his offense and recruits.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                  Some of that is coaching, right? He's been the QB coach since 2017. Did Book improve on the things he didn't do well from back in 2018? Did his pocket presence get better? Did he get better at going through is progressions and moving the offense from the pocket? Or, did Rees just let him do what he was good at? Which is fine but it doesn't really show much coaching and give us reasons to expect the next QB will improve due to Rees, right? FWIW, all of Ian's meaningful stats were worse, in 2020, than they were in 2018, and some of them cratered in 2019.

                                  Those things don't give me optimism that the next QB that he coaches for a few years will be any different. But, I'm willing to give him time to figure it out with his offense and recruits.
                                  Like all things, there is no one explanation. I don't know if you can coach that out of a player. I don't know if a player who is gunshy and has only shown a penchant for throwing up 50/50 balls downfield all of a sudden fixes that. Some might have a mental breakthrough but Ian never appeared to read the defense quickly. He was good at going through his first couple reads but we all know he had a propensity to tuck and run when he felt the slightest bit of pressure.

                                  Rees in his first year, has shown the ability to mold the offense around what his players are capable of even with last minute defections/losses in personnel. He gets another year from me before I can assess what he is/isn't capable of. He has a completely different QB this year and very different strengths/weaknesses to start the season.

                                  Comment


                                  • Yeah a good coach maximizes his players ability. Do we know if Rees maximized Book or not? May never been able to tell.

                                    What kind of decision making/coaching went into the way Book threw (or didnt throw). Have to think there was some serious discussions about we have a very good defense just dont fuck shit up taking low percentage chances.

                                    On the other hand there certainly wasnt much improvement over the years either. But thats been the case with QBs for Kelly pre-Rees too so ?

                                    I certainly am not here saying Rees deserves no criticism but the constant "Can Freeman coach O" or "Rees should be at GVSU" type comments seem unfounded as well.
                                    Prehistoric

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                                    • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                      That's because BK knows you need a very good D when you step up to the next level.
                                      Well then it's time to start swinging a big D on offense!

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                                      • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                        No. Didn’t think I conveyed a tone of less than calm, just expressing a possible opposite view point. It is the “state of the recruiting class” thread.
                                        Whiskey is going to finish his coffee dude
                                        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                        • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post
                                          Rees has a lot to prove and I hope he gets the time to do so. But, I'm in 100% show me mode for offensive recruiting and coaching. I was a fan of the hire and I've given him credit where credit is due. But, there are plenty of reasons for criticism at this point. Too much to ignore and hopefully those are all being addressed and we start to see the results soon.
                                          That's what happens when ND does on the job training.

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                                          • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                            37, bruh. I'm not officially "old" for three more years.
                                            But you are wise beyond your years fam. If I had 25% of your mindscape I could have been a contender
                                            "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                            • I'm of the opinion that personnel largely dictates scheme. Book + Javon/Skow/Davis does not equate to a dynamic offense. The fact that Rees was able to carve out a top 20 offense with last year's squad is pretty impressive IMO.

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                                              • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                That's because BK knows you need a very good D when you step up to the next level.

                                                Unfortunately for Tommy (who is not outspoken), BK hired a DC with a rah rah salesman personality and is being unfairly judged by that.
                                                You're talking to the guy who was anti-Fleck from day 1 because I hate shtick. So if anything, that's a mark in Rees' favor.

                                                For a 1st year OC, he did extremely well. But you don't get the benefit of a handicap when coaching at ND, and odds are not good that he can out-recruit and out-coach Venables and Saban.

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                                                • I find the comments in here so weird. Like do yo guys think when plays are drawn up with multiple routes and options, Rees tells his QB to only throw 50/50 balls to the outside?

                                                  When you see film breakdowns showing Tremble wide open down only for Book to not see him, that that is coached?

                                                  That Rees is out of his element because when he saw his roster had an elite O-Line, 3 deep at TE, 2 big bodied WR's, and a stable of talented Running Backs, he decided the best bet to win was to run it down people's throats?

                                                  I get that you wish ND could go 3-4 wide and spread it all over like Bama and Oklahoma but the roster isn't built that way.

                                                  As for Rees as a recruiter, he was heavily in keeping Meyer and Johnson as well as landing Colzie, Styles, and Buchner.


                                                  Does this mean Rees is beyond criticism or perfect? No. But there seems to be people jumping through hoops to fault him for the hand he was dealt when he has made the most f that hand in his one year in charge of the offense and as a lead recruiter.

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                                                  • Originally posted by jason_h537 View Post
                                                    Does this mean Rees is beyond criticism or perfect? No. But there seems to be people jumping through hoops to fault him for the hand he was dealt when he has made the most f that hand in his one year in charge of the offense and as a lead recruiter.
                                                    I haven't seen many people faulting Rees for our offensive weaknesses in 2020. Most fans seem super impressed with what he accomplished as a first year coordinator. But it's not being unfair to Rees to point out: (1) that mediocre offensive production has been a perennial issue for Kelly's ND teams; (2) that we have a lot more work to do to close the gap with 'Bama and Clemson on that side of the ball; and (3) that taking the next step offensively would be a huge task for even the most experienced OCs in the country, let alone a scrappy ND alumnus in his first major coaching gig.

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                                                    • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                      I haven't seen many people faulting Rees for our offensive weaknesses in 2020. Most fans seem super impressed with what he accomplished as a first year coordinator. But it's not being unfair to Rees to point out: (1) that mediocre offensive production has been a perennial issue for Kelly's ND teams; (2) that we have a lot more work to do to close the gap with 'Bama and Clemson on that side of the ball; and (3) that taking the next step offensively would be a huge task for even the most experienced OCs in the country, let alone a scrappy ND alumnus in his first major coaching gig.
                                                      Tony Elliott was a scrappy Clemson alumnus in his first major coaching gig at one point.

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                                                      • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                        You're talking to the guy who was anti-Fleck from day 1 because I hate shtick. So if anything, that's a mark in Rees' favor.

                                                        For a 1st year OC, he did extremely well. But you don't get the benefit of a handicap when coaching at ND, and odds are not good that he can out-recruit and out-coach Venables and Saban.
                                                        I share your distaste for Fleck. Slick does not impress me, and it wears thin eventually.

                                                        .

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                                                        • I think a lot of the angst surrounding offensive recruiting can be illustrated with the visitor list for the BBQ happening later this month (stealing from Crus's list on another thread):

                                                          2023

                                                          Brenan Vernon ......... 5* DE
                                                          Drayk Bowen ............ 5* LB
                                                          TaMere Robinson ..... 4* LB
                                                          King Mack -............... 4* S
                                                          Derrick LeBlanc ........ 4* DE
                                                          Adon Shuler ............. S
                                                          Moussa Kane ........... S
                                                          Luke Montgomery ..... 4* DT (Maybe)

                                                          2024

                                                          Anythony Speca ........ LB

                                                          In case you don't see the pattern, they all play defense.

                                                          The recruiting results between the two sides aren't disparate... yet. But there's a lot of momentum going for the defense that shows that this isn't business as usual and that the gap is being shrunk with the big boys. Offensive recruiting feels like we're treading water. It's early, and it might be that Rees and co. will have a great 2023 class, but there's just not much excitement.

                                                          Funnier than you in 2012.

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                                                          • If BK decided tomorrow to pull a Bob Stoops, who here would advocate for Tommy over Freeman? I certainly wouldn't and I think that's the point.

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                                                            • Originally posted by greyhammer90 View Post
                                                              It's early, and it might be that Rees and co. will have a great 2023 class, but there's just not much excitement.
                                                              Carnell Tate visited 3 times in June. All 3 elite TE offers visited in June. 6 of the top 15 OL in the country visited. Our top and most realistic QB option visited. 2 of the top RBs in the country visited.

                                                              Are those on par with what Freeman is churning out? Maybe not. But June was a successful month for 2023 recruiting for O. Why aren’t their O guys on the July visit list yet? Idk those confirms have just started coming through but hopefully we see more, on both sides.

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                                                              • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                                                                If BK decided tomorrow to pull a Bob Stoops, who here would advocate for Tommy over Freeman? I certainly wouldn't and I think that's the point.
                                                                So now the measure of success for our coordinators is who you would make HC in the event of a unexpected coach retirement?

                                                                TBH I think Elston gets the interim gig in your scenario
                                                                Prehistoric

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                                                                • The real question is - when are we going to have to switch over recruited DBs to WR? Over/under 2024

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                                    You're talking to the guy who was anti-Fleck from day 1 because I hate shtick. So if anything, that's a mark in Rees' favor.

                                                                    For a 1st year OC, he did extremely well. But you don't get the benefit of a handicap when coaching at ND, and odds are not good that he can out-recruit and out-coach Venables and Saban.
                                                                    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Freeman is at the Schtick level. Just a more outspoken personality that knows how to sell.

                                                                    Venables got Tommy in the CCG, but don't forget that Tommy got Venables in the first game. Tommy hasn't been at it long enough to know what we really have in an OC, but if we have some WR's this year, this should give us a pretty good idea. BK knows Tommy better than any of us and I doubt he would risk the success of the program if he didn't think Tommy was the man for the job.

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                                                                    • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                                      Some of that is coaching, right? He's been the QB coach since 2017. Did Book improve on the things he didn't do well from back in 2018? Did his pocket presence get better? Did he get better at going through is progressions and moving the offense from the pocket? Or, did Rees just let him do what he was good at? Which is fine but it doesn't really show much coaching and give us reasons to expect the next QB will improve due to Rees, right? FWIW, all of Ian's meaningful stats were worse, in 2020, than they were in 2018, and some of them cratered in 2019.

                                                                      Those things don't give me optimism that the next QB that he coaches for a few years will be any different. But, I'm willing to give him time to figure it out with his offense and recruits.
                                                                      I'm more in line with Trait on this. I'm a firm believer TR coached and talked to Book about going deep. A coach can only do so much and then it's up to the QB to sink or swim. There are a ton of QB's that have the physical tools, but fall short on the mental side. Your mental makeup is who you are and it's not going to change so if you have a deep seated fear of throwing deep, you will always justify dumping it off. So why was Book the starter if he has those limitations? Because even with those limitations, he was still the best option of what was available.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post

                                                                        So now the measure of success for our coordinators is who you would make HC in the event of a unexpected coach retirement?

                                                                        TBH I think Elston gets the interim gig in your scenario
                                                                        No, more like Freemans history and impact thus far seems to shine a bit brighter. It isn't a negative to Tommy per se, just that Freeman really seems like the real deal.

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                                                                        • Ok, back to the state of the recruiting class. For the moment, let's stay on the defensive side.

                                                                          \We now have a full complement of 11 2022 defensive commits, enough for a 3-4-4, 3 DLS 4 LBS, 4DBS.

                                                                          So we have four targets left on D (assuming Pope is red herring)

                                                                          And it is as if they were designed by Marvel Comics:

                                                                          The Fab Four

                                                                          The X Man
                                                                          Der Deutsche HERO
                                                                          Anthony Lucas Skywalker
                                                                          .
                                                                          Cyrus (the Virus- after Malkovich in Con Air) Moss

                                                                          The Fab four.

                                                                          Sooo, what the likely result:
                                                                          0-4? (and the board commits mass consensual seppuku)
                                                                          4-4 giddy orgiastic celebration with the only controversy being selection of a pivot man
                                                                          \1-4
                                                                          2-4
                                                                          3-4?

                                                                          And before you answer consider that if we had asked you 200 days ago, when Orgeron was still wooing Freeman, what our class would look like on July 15th, what would your answer have. been?

                                                                          Fab four. get used to it. .

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                                                                          • Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                                                            Last edited by Dale; 07-15-2021, 03:15 PM.

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                                                                            • I would say I’d be pretty solid on 2 for 4 but close to predicting 3 for 4……..

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                                                                              • I would be really surprised if we didn't land Merriweather and CJ Williams at this point. Both are taking their time, to varying degrees, so a lot can change but I think ND has been putting in work there and is going to close. Schrauth and his dad are ND fans, I think that wins out versus pressure from other sources. No clue on the rest. I think/hope ND will close well though... keeping guys in the fold will be the bigger challenge. There are a lot of thirsty coaching staffs out there.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                                  I would be really surprised if we didn't land Merriweather and CJ Williams at this point. Both are taking their time, to varying degrees, so a lot can change but I think ND has been putting in work there and is going to close. Schrauth and his dad are ND fans, I think that wins out versus pressure from other sources. No clue on the rest. I think/hope ND will close well though... keeping guys in the fold will be the bigger challenge. There are a lot of thirsty coaching staffs out there.
                                                                                  Yeah, I think that comes with the territory when you land top guys. The staff has done a really good job at keeping guys though. I can't fault them with the 2022 decommits though. Nickel was kinda forced out and Agu doesn't like competition.

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                                                                                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post



                                                                                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                                                                    Try rubbing your temples Counter-clockwise.

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                                      I would be really surprised if we didn't land Merriweather and CJ Williams at this point. Both are taking their time, to varying degrees, so a lot can change but I think ND has been putting in work there and is going to close. Schrauth and his dad are ND fans, I think that wins out versus pressure from other sources. No clue on the rest. I think/hope ND will close well though... keeping guys in the fold will be the bigger challenge. There are a lot of thirsty coaching staffs out there.
                                                                                      This with Kanu, Lucas and Wagner would put us near top 5 territory. If we could somehow pull off the miracle of Nwankpa, we'd have our best defensive class in 20-30 years and a top 5 class.

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                                                                                      • ESPN did some updates, didn’t track the direct changes for anyone besides Walker but Sneed, Gobaira and Walker were all noticeable jumps in their 247 Comp.

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                                                                                        • Let's Make a Deal.

                                                                                          there are 19 in the class.

                                                                                          If Mephistopheles comes up this morning and said
                                                                                          "You can have these additional FIVE, but no more? Speak now or forever hold your peace!".

                                                                                          Williams
                                                                                          Schrauth
                                                                                          Merriweather
                                                                                          Kanu
                                                                                          Lucas

                                                                                          Would you take the deal, with 24 as the final number?l

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by BrownerandFry View Post
                                                                                            Let's Make a Deal.

                                                                                            there are 19 in the class.

                                                                                            If Mephistopheles comes up this morning and said
                                                                                            "You can have these additional FIVE, but no more? Speak now or forever hold your peace!".

                                                                                            Williams
                                                                                            Schrauth
                                                                                            Merriweather
                                                                                            Kanu
                                                                                            Lucas

                                                                                            Would you take the deal, with 24 as the final number?l
                                                                                            I would much rather have Nwankpa over a duo of Lucas/Kanu. Hell just to keep the position at a healthy number, I’d take Wesolak over Kanu/Lucas.

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by BrownerandFry View Post
                                                                                              Let's Make a Deal.

                                                                                              there are 19 in the class.

                                                                                              If Mephistopheles comes up this morning and said
                                                                                              "You can have these additional FIVE, but no more? Speak now or forever hold your peace!".

                                                                                              Williams
                                                                                              Schrauth
                                                                                              Merriweather
                                                                                              Kanu
                                                                                              Lucas

                                                                                              Would you take the deal, with 24 as the final number?l
                                                                                              That's a near perfect ending to the class so yes. Nwankpa is the only one I can think of that'd be missing. With no knowledge other than history that seems like an unlikely pull.
                                                                                              But would happily trade that for Lucas who also seems unlikely at this point.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by BrownerandFry View Post
                                                                                                Let's Make a Deal.

                                                                                                there are 19 in the class.

                                                                                                If Mephistopheles comes up this morning and said
                                                                                                "You can have these additional FIVE, but no more? Speak now or forever hold your peace!".

                                                                                                Williams
                                                                                                Schrauth
                                                                                                Merriweather
                                                                                                Kanu
                                                                                                Lucas

                                                                                                Would you take the deal, with 24 as the final number?l
                                                                                                I would take it. That's 4 - top 100 players and the 5th is top 150. I'd love to add an additional safety, ala Nwankpa but that is a damn good finish and that would meet our WR needs and that defensive group would set us up for championship aspirations for the next 4 years.

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                                                                                                • This is a site that pays tribute to Our Lady, can't we make a deal with Tony Soprano instead? That other fella deals in eternal roster management styles I'd rather not be a part of.

                                                                                                  What's next... deciding offers with a Ouija Board? If so here's your next two offers:




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                                                                                                  • My "So you're saying there's a chance" 5 are:

                                                                                                    Williams
                                                                                                    Merriweather
                                                                                                    Nwankpa
                                                                                                    Moss
                                                                                                    Rice

                                                                                                    My realistic 5 are:

                                                                                                    Williams
                                                                                                    Merriweather
                                                                                                    Singleton
                                                                                                    Wagner
                                                                                                    Kanu

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post
                                                                                                      This is a site that pays tribute to Our Lady, can't we make a deal with Tony Soprano instead? That other fella deals in eternal roster management styles I'd rather not be a part of.

                                                                                                      What's next... deciding offers with a Ouija Board? If so here's your next two offers:



                                                                                                      Ok, I withdraw the glib Mephisto reference.

                                                                                                      And if you say this site pays tribute to the Vito, the Dulcedo and Spes, I will abide.

                                                                                                      By the way when my Dad and I affixed a message on my mom (his wife of 64 years) 's gravestone it led with

                                                                                                      Luke 1:46..
                                                                                                      I know where you stand
                                                                                                      I know where I stand.

                                                                                                      I'm not sure about du lac.

                                                                                                      Eco said this:

                                                                                                      “The devil is not the prince of matter; the devil is the arrogance of spirit, faith without smile, truth that is never seized by doubt."

                                                                                                      Having watched both ends of the UCLA 88 game winning streak in the convo, it is a bitter pill, exacerbated by the profession I was in to see Purcell's name on that arena.


                                                                                                      He is a whited sepulchre. and having met REV. Hesburgh and REV. Joyce, this Jenkins guy, for me, mind you, invokes images other than those two.

                                                                                                      I was surprised to see the kid at Snider. I hadn't realized that Fort Wayne had migrated from mediocrity to Satanism.

                                                                                                      But it would have been a good futures bet.


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