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2022 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

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  • Originally posted by SBirishlawyer View Post
    Would be less upsetting if they hadn’t over confidently cancelled visits and ended recruiting so many of the good plan B’s potentially forcing future plan C and D to get numbers. Receiver was well documented as the big need this cycle and it is lagging bad. Sometimes s@$& happens but early in the cycle they self selected out of many that logically should have been on the board and recently they dipped out on ones they may end up quickly regretting keeping in play. I would say well weird year and maybe lesson learned but this is a known part of recruiting and should not catch professionals off guard
    Who’s visits are you saying we cancelled?

    Comment


    • I am probably being a little vague/macro saying that. In my hurty feelings I am referring to whatever is going on with Turner-Bradshaw. Backing off copeland, griffin, and groves. Also kind of winston the safety because since only the defense can close lately I am half expecting jo jo from last class or jake pope to end up at receiver to keep numbers up. I realize all of those receivers I named they valued less than anderson and Ayomanor but between telling recruits to finish visits and wanting to take the high ground and not waste a recruits one of five officials if they are not a take right now.. the playing nice can leave ya holding your junk when the hot chick goes home with the closer.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
        ND offensive recruiting at the moment.....

        Bottom line is Rees is green and Del apparently isn't a good recruiter. What did we expect? Jury is out on Taylor, too.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post
          Bottom line is Rees is green and Del apparently isn't a good recruiter. What did we expect? Jury is out on Taylor, too.
          I didn't expect much, as even when the positive Singleton vibes hit I posted something to the effect of " I want to believe it". Truth is, outside of OL and TE, I don't trust anything when it comes to offensive recruiting. They have their fair share of wins, don't get me wrong. But the losses are what is keeping from ND taking the next step and we are seemingly sold false information from the staff/recruiting sites (whether it's intentional, which I doubt, or a terrible read on the situation, which is where my money is). I would much rather have "real" insights versus some of the rainbow pumping. But that doesn't sell well.

          Comment


          • So I compiled a list of guys at WR this cycle and added guys based on their offer list. Basically it was an educated guess looking at academic offers (BC, Vandy, Northwestern, ND, Stanford, Ivy League, etc.)

            .9882 5* Kevin Coleman

            .9836 5* Caleb Burton

            .9834 5* Evan Stewart

            .9738 4* Kaleb Brown

            .9710 4* Tetairoa McMillan

            .9683 4* CJ Williams

            .9634 4* Tyler Morris

            .9624 4* Brenen Thompson

            .9511 4* Kaden Saunders

            .9510 4* Kojo Antwi

            .9491 4* Tobias Merriweather

            .9421 4* Darrius Clemons

            .9387 4* Andre Greene Jr.

            .9353 4* Antonio Williams

            .9200 4* De’Nylon Morrissette

            .9159 4* Nicholas Anderson

            .9151 4* Reggie Fleurima

            .9139 4* Dane Key

            .9020 4* Dakota Twitty

            .8937 4* Joseph Griffin

            So part of me looks at this list and says well dang ND offered a ton of these guys. Not a few but actually a ton of these guys and they’re not like Syracuse just throwing out 400 offers. I’m pretty sure they checked interest and had some communication. So at that point what more can you expect from them if the kids aren’t interested.

            The bigger part of me says holy crap that’s a ton of dudes with high academic offers. Btw I left a bunch of guys that had one high academic offer if I wasn’t convinced on the academic stuff (even left off some ND offered dudes that might’ve had the old needs to work on some things-line down the road). The fact that there’s this many guys of this caliber in this cycle that could fit the mold academically is worrisome to me that ND can’t strike at WR. Now I certainly hope they get CJ and Tobias. However, you can’t convince Darrius Clemons who’s a super high academic kid to even come for an OV. What about offering Reggie Fleurima who would come to ND if offered. What about Dane Key who’s within driving distance or Dakota Twitty who had Ivy League offers. What happened to Joseph Griffin who’s a BC commit and high academic kid. Maybe they’re very confident in Williams, Merriweather, Walker and Ayomanor but it’s just weird that this cycle fit ND’s bill quite well in terms of potential fits academically and they’re struggling seemingly to get their top rated kids and having a big board. There have been cycles I’ve been frustrated without much reason at WR recruiting where honestly there weren’t a whole bunch of fits in that cycle but this can’t be used as an excuse this cycle and they’ve got tons of spots they can use and need!

            Comment


            • The laughable bad takes and ignorance is getting out of hand.

              The world isn't imploding because we lost a guy who isn't near the top of our boards. Christ. R-E-L-A-X.
              It's Just a Ride.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Crazy Balki View Post
                The laughable bad takes and ignorance is getting out of hand.

                The world isn't imploding because we lost a guy who isn't near the top of our boards. Christ. R-E-L-A-X.
                If you think this limited to one WR, not sure what to tell you. They couldn't close on singleton apparently. It's a very real possibility that they go ofer on Wisconsin OL. QB recruiting this cycle was clumsy at best. We were told June would be magical and while Freeman delivered, the offense, well, didn't. CJ williams will be a great add. But he can't be the only great add if we want to take the next step.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post

                  If you think this limited to one WR, not sure what to tell you. They couldn't close on singleton apparently. It's a very real possibility that they go ofer on Wisconsin OL. QB recruiting this cycle was clumsy at best. We were told June would be magical and while Freeman delivered, the offense, well, didn't. CJ williams will be a great add. But he can't be the only great add if we want to take the next step.
                  Schrauth, to me, is the only true loss since Notre Dame was in the driver's seat for so long. It is difficult to go into another state and defeat the local team for a recruit. To be honest, Penn State had no reason losing out on Singleton and Wisconsin letting 3 OL leave the state.

                  Landing Singleton would've been the icing on the cake to what they've brought in (Tyree, Estime, Diggs, and Price). Notre Dame's backfield is in very good shape.

                  Notre Dame is OLU, but Wisconsin is not far behind. Wisconsin coaches would've deserved some serious side eye from their fans if they let those guys leave the state. A OL class of Chan-Tanona-Wagner-Craig is pretty dang good.

                  I am not excusing Rees and company's recruiting, though. They need to tighten their shit up now.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by arrowryan View Post

                    Schrauth, to me, is the only true loss since Notre Dame was in the driver's seat for so long. It is difficult to go into another state and defeat the local team for a recruit. To be honest, Penn State had no reason losing out on Singleton and Wisconsin letting 3 OL leave the state.

                    Landing Singleton would've been the icing on the cake to what they've brought in (Tyree, Estime, Diggs, and Price). Notre Dame's backfield is in very good shape.

                    Notre Dame is OLU, but Wisconsin is not far behind. Wisconsin coaches would've deserved some serious side eye from their fans if they let those guys leave the state. A OL class of Chan-Tanona-Wagner-Craig is pretty dang good.

                    I am not excusing Rees and company's recruiting, though. They need to tighten their shit up now.
                    Agreed 100%. There is a reason we haven't pulled a Wisconsin linemen in 2-3 decades. Harry never got a Wisconsin OL. I hope we continue going after Schrauth.

                    Need to see them close now.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Crazy Balki View Post
                      The laughable bad takes and ignorance is getting out of hand.

                      The world isn't imploding because we lost a guy who isn't near the top of our boards. Christ. R-E-L-A-X.
                      This 100%...makes me wonder how many of these posters were around in 2011 with the Lynch, Tuitt, and Ishaq recruiting drama.

                      Comment


                      • I’m staying optimistic that we’ll see positive recruiting news over the next two weeks which will help us feel some momentum

                        Comment


                        • I think once July cycles through, and we may not know 100% the answer, it will be interesting to hear how many guys told ND in some effect, “I’m coming” but didn’t shut down their recruitments end up committing. Anderson very much could be in that group but that’s still speculation. Singleton sounds like could be. There’s the other group of “I’m coming” and they shut it down and are just thinking in private or taking time to form their announcements, which I think we have at least 1 there. This is my problem with the silent term because both groups are getting meshed together often times. In reality, the first group is nothing more than “ND leads”, and the hope would be the staff thinks that as well and weren’t presuming things closed.

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                          • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                            I think once July cycles through, and we may not know 100% the answer, it will be interesting to hear how many guys told ND in some effect, “I’m coming” but didn’t shut down their recruitments end up committing. Anderson very much could be in that group but that’s still speculation. Singleton sounds like could be. There’s the other group of “I’m coming” and they shut it down and are just thinking in private or taking time to form their announcements, which I think we have at least 1 there. This is my problem with the silent term because both groups are getting meshed together often times. In reality, the first group is nothing more than “ND leads”, and the hope would be the staff thinks that as well and weren’t presuming things closed.
                            When thinking about Anderson, Singleton, etc, I wonder if those young men were willing to "commit" but wanted to keep taking officials and not shut down the recruiting process. If that were the case, ND saying, "don't commit, take your officials, work your process" makes sense. Walker aside, ND commits are locked in and have generally shut down the recruiting process. Which I think we all like much better than having a bunch of soft commitments.

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                            • Originally posted by Green Mountains View Post

                              When thinking about Anderson, Singleton, etc, I wonder if those young men were willing to "commit" but wanted to keep taking officials and not shut down the recruiting process. If that were the case, ND saying, "don't commit, take your officials, work your process" makes sense. Walker aside, ND commits are locked in and have generally shut down the recruiting process. Which I think we all like much better than having a bunch of soft commitments.
                              The long term view of that approach would be both that they are less likely to decommit as well as even transfer in the current age. So it has its merits, it’s just how we end up here with some. Small sample size though.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Crazy Balki View Post
                                The laughable bad takes and ignorance is getting out of hand.

                                The world isn't imploding because we lost a guy who isn't near the top of our boards. Christ. R-E-L-A-X.
                                Anderson wasn't near the top of the board??? Come on now. He wasn't in my class of 4 but he was my next man in.

                                Depending how one defines 'top of the board' he was either on it, at it or knocking on the door.

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                                • They tried to get Anderson to commit which means he's a top target for them. Anderson is on record with Rivals saying that they tried to get him to commit. Then someone on staff told Loy that Anderson was done. It's not uncommon for guys to silently commit and then deny it publicly, but clearly it wasn't nearly as done as they thought it was.

                                  As one of the founding members of the "I don't care about stars but the staff getting their top targets" committee we can't have it both ways. We can't cheer for 3 star, top of the board, guys that the staff really wanted which we do often. But, then cast aside the misses on guys they tried to get commit as no big deal. This was a recruiting blunder and a PR blunder, in one.

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                                  • Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post

                                    Anderson wasn't near the top of the board??? Come on now. He wasn't in my class of 4 but he was my next man in.

                                    Depending how one defines 'top of the board' he was either on it, at it or knocking on the door.
                                    Williams
                                    Merriweather
                                    Walker
                                    Ayomanor
                                    Griffin
                                    Anderson

                                    Anderson would be a nice get, but he isn't Williams or Merriweather. Those are the top of the board guys.
                                    It's Just a Ride.

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                                    • Originally posted by Crazy Balki View Post

                                      Williams
                                      Merriweather
                                      Walker
                                      Ayomanor
                                      Griffin
                                      Anderson

                                      Anderson would be a nice get, but he isn't Williams or Merriweather. Those are the top of the board guys.
                                      No, they aren't. The staff hasn't been pressing for Griffin but they were for Anderson.

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                                      • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                        Agreed 100%. There is a reason we haven't pulled a Wisconsin linemen in 2-3 decades. Harry never got a Wisconsin OL. I hope we continue going after Schrauth.

                                        Need to see them close now.
                                        to be fair, Harry was busy going into Ohio State’s backyard for guys they wanted. Wisconsin doesn’t have 3 top 100-250 lineman year in and year out.

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                                        • So if the DB group finishes with 4 and maybe they land X as well as Sneed, are we just waiting on WR to finish? Any other spots open perhaps? Maybe another OL?

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                                          • I was thinking we need another OL for sure. I think we may have a couple roster openings due to the portal as well. I still don’t know how those count towards our max class size.
                                            "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                            • Originally posted by RockinIrish View Post
                                              I’m staying optimistic that we’ll see positive recruiting news over the next two weeks which will help us feel some momentum
                                              Stay tuned ....for these are the days of our lives
                                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                              • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                I was thinking we need another OL for sure. I think we may have a couple roster openings due to the portal as well. I still don’t know how those count towards our max class size.
                                                Another OL and probably 3 WRs to add I am guessing. Singer mentioned maybe 5 OL.

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                                                • Some of it probably depends on who they can get. They’ll take 2 more DL if it’s Moss and Lucas. They take two OL if it’s Rice and Wagner. But I think as far as needs, it’s 2 more DB’s, 3 WR’s, and 1 OL.

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                                                  • All WRs are basically the same unless you have some freak athletic traits that give you upside or are so well rounded + polished that you're a "sure thing." Guys in that latter category are super rare, a lot of "#1" WRs don't do shit because they aren't actually good WRs they're just really fast or really fast + really big. Guys like Jerry Jeudy coming out of HS are the only true "sure things."

                                                    Outside of that, it's a total grab bag. Someone like CJ Williams might be awful or he might be a Keenan Allen style route runner who can't be covered. See it all the time with guys like Trent Irwin who are supposed to be "elite route runners" that then don't actually produce. Someone like Anderson could end up being an NFL player or he could just be an end of the roster body. I just have a hard time caring.

                                                    The big problem for ND is not losing guys like Anderson... it's failing to get traction with guys like Kaleb Brown and Tyler Morris. Kaleb Brown has great traits, and while maybe not a true "sure thing" he's close. Tyler Morris is more meh, but he's still a guy where recruiting/relationships is the main reason we weren't a factor and he's certainly as talented as anyone we're looking at for a filler WR in this class.

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                                                    • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                      All WRs are basically the same unless you have some freak athletic traits that give you upside or are so well rounded + polished that you're a "sure thing." Guys in that latter category are super rare, a lot of "#1" WRs don't do shit because they aren't actually good WRs they're just really fast or really fast + really big. Guys like Jerry Jeudy coming out of HS are the only true "sure things."

                                                      Outside of that, it's a total grab bag. Someone like CJ Williams might be awful or he might be a Keenan Allen style route runner who can't be covered. See it all the time with guys like Trent Irwin who are supposed to be "elite route runners" that then don't actually produce. Someone like Anderson could end up being an NFL player or he could just be an end of the roster body. I just have a hard time caring.

                                                      The big problem for ND is not losing guys like Anderson... it's failing to get traction with guys like Kaleb Brown and Tyler Morris. Kaleb Brown has great traits, and while maybe not a true "sure thing" he's close. Tyler Morris is more meh, but he's still a guy where recruiting/relationships is the main reason we weren't a factor and he's certainly as talented as anyone we're looking at for a filler WR in this class.
                                                      Not sure I understand the Morris point given the rest of the post. Morris 100% falls into the “basically the same” category of the three you mentioned and we had traction before he called it a week after a knee injury. Walker and Ayomanor if they snag him also are at least closer to the athletic traits spectrum.

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                                                      • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                        Someone like CJ Williams might be awful or he might be a Keenan Allen style route runner who can't be covered. See it all the time with guys like Trent Irwin who are supposed to be "elite route runners" that then don't actually produce.
                                                        And when you get the route runner you have to have a QB that will/can throw it to all of those routes. In the BK era, seems I've seen a lot more sideline jump balls to Eifert, ESB, Boykin, Claypool, McKinley than I have guys working their tree like TJ Jones or Slippery Fox.

                                                        Is it ironic that Tommy was the guy delivering those lobs to Eifert and now he's the guy calling the lobs?

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                                                        • Comment


                                                          • For the past few months, I've been reading articles on The Athletic and listening to ISD podcasts stating that ND now has a renewed focus on recruiting with the big boys and that the strategy is paying off. Has this success been overstated? I see that our class is #2 right now and that's awesome, but the average recruit ranking is more or less the same that it has been the past ten years or so.

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                                                            • Originally posted by tussin View Post
                                                              For the past few months, I've been reading articles on The Athletic and listening to ISD podcasts stating that ND now has a renewed focus on recruiting with the big boys and that the strategy is paying off. Has this success been overstated? I see that our class is #2 right now and that's awesome, but the average recruit ranking is more or less the same that it has been the past ten years or so.
                                                              Probably a bit of a blend still. You could also make the argument that there are quite a few underrated prospects that are committed as well. Devin Moore is a 4 star on rivals but a 3 star all other sites as an example.

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                                                              • Originally posted by tussin View Post
                                                                For the past few months, I've been reading articles on The Athletic and listening to ISD podcasts stating that ND now has a renewed focus on recruiting with the big boys and that the strategy is paying off. Has this success been overstated? I see that our class is #2 right now and that's awesome, but the average recruit ranking is more or less the same that it has been the past ten years or so.
                                                                A couple things from me.

                                                                1. It depends on how we close. Landing Sneed, Williams, Merriweather, Pope, Morrison, Nwankpa, Schrauth, and Wagner would go a long way in improving that. And, if that doesn't happen, how many of those do we get? None of those are unrealistic at the present.

                                                                2. Due to Covid I still think there is a delay in ratings/rankings updates but I think it's clear ND is firmly in more of these battles even if those ratings don't reflect it. Bama wanted Moore, just at S. Bellamy had offers from OSU, LSU, and Clemson. Maybe he wasn't a take by all but they still offered. That's more than a lot of our previous DB's can say. Walker has offers from Bama and LSU but for DB. Darren Agu was offered by Bama before ND. And, that's just to name a few. If we land the above prospects I think this class will be as good as any of the Kelly era. Whether the ratings system gives Moore the proper bump into a respectable grade. Or, Sneed gets his rightful place as arguably the top LB in the country, is really outside of their control. But, they are getting guys that others want and/or have identified.

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                                                                • Originally posted by tussin View Post
                                                                  For the past few months, I've been reading articles on The Athletic and listening to ISD podcasts stating that ND now has a renewed focus on recruiting with the big boys and that the strategy is paying off. Has this success been overstated? I see that our class is #2 right now and that's awesome, but the average recruit ranking is more or less the same that it has been the past ten years or so.
                                                                  We are #2 right now but Alabama isnt even the top 10...meaning multiple teams will jump us once theri classes are fully signed. We will end up a little better that we have been. I predict a 8-12 class once everyone is signed. Our recent yearly team scores put us around an average 12-13.
                                                                  "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                                                  • A class average around 92 should be the goal regardless of where that slots us ranking wise since the class size differentiates a lot at that point. That would be a upgrade of the 89-90 we’ve turned recently. A 55% BCR lines up with getting a 90 in that regard in some ways, the high three stars counteracting the Top 200 type guys. Only way to change that is A) More Top 50 types instead of just Top 200 and B) less three stars.

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                                                                    • I think the offer list of the 3 stars in this class are substantially better than usual. Our lowest rated commit is Amorion Walker who had committable offers from Bama, LSU, and Michigan. Darren Agu (rated 87) has offers from Bama, PSU, Auburn, FSU, Miami etc... Jayden Bellamy and Devin Moore have even better offer lists. That's what separates this class so far - going up and winning against big time programs even for the lower rated players in this class.


                                                                      The only commits w/o 4 star offer lists IMO are Hinish, Craig, and Raridon - Excluding Zeigler bc he committed so early.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                        A class average around 92 should be the goal regardless of where that slots us ranking wise since the class size differentiates a lot at that point. That would be a upgrade of the 89-90 we’ve turned recently. A 55% BCR lines up with getting a 90 in that regard in some ways, the high three stars counteracting the Top 200 type guys. Only way to change that is A) More Top 50 types instead of just Top 200 and B) less three stars.
                                                                        Right. Bama and OSU will have a BCR this cycle over 80%. Clemson a little less I think but still in the hihg 70's. ND has been around 50-55% under Kelly.
                                                                        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                                                        • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                                                          Right. Bama and OSU will have a BCR this cycle over 80%. Clemson a little less I think but still in the hihg 70's. ND has been around 50-55% under Kelly.
                                                                          and we’re at 61% right now. So ignore the addition of Sneed, Williams etc for the time being if let’s say 3 of the current three star group get bumps that quickly is 78% (!!)

                                                                          That group is Moore, Bellamy, Raridon, Craig, Walker, Agu, Hinish

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                                                                          • I am dumb, what is BCR?

                                                                            I think NIL will get us an initial bump in talent. If not now then when? ND is playing that card pretty aggressively so if we can capitalize and back it up with results (NIL results not just on the field) we could be witnessing a level up moment for ND recruiting.

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                                                                            • Blue chip rate

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                                                                              • Originally posted by Crazy Balki View Post
                                                                                The laughable bad takes and ignorance is getting out of hand.

                                                                                The world isn't imploding because we lost a guy who isn't near the top of our boards. Christ. R-E-L-A-X.
                                                                                This is a tale as old as time.
                                                                                It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                                                • Not sure where to put this, and apologies if already posted. It appears ND has picked up a new offensive recruiting coordinator. Could help us in landing a RB committed else where.

                                                                                  Either way here’s the article I found at ND Insider,

                                                                                  https://www.ndinsider.com/story/spor...st/7917714002/

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                                                                                  • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                    and we’re at 61% right now. So ignore the addition of Sneed, Williams etc for the time being if let’s say 3 of the current three star group get bumps that quickly is 78% (!!)

                                                                                    That group is Moore, Bellamy, Raridon, Craig, Walker, Agu, Hinish
                                                                                    While that is very very intriguing for the 2022 class, it will be in 2023 the the Blue Chip Ratio really takes off. We often start slow, but Keeley and Vernon are a nice start.

                                                                                    We can dream of adding Rhett, Bowen, Tate and the rest....

                                                                                    Now with Dre Brown the whole cadre is in place.

                                                                                    There is one interesting anomaly. It appears that none of the five best recruiters on on the offensive side:

                                                                                    one might surmise it
                                                                                    is Freeman/ Elston
                                                                                    Mickens
                                                                                    Oleary (early returns, the Decision Desk is not yet making a call)
                                                                                    and Brian Polian

                                                                                    (McNulty is really hard to call. He seems nearly perfect so far)

                                                                                    Yet, if we close with Schrauth, Wagner, Williams and Merriweather, that would be quite a haul.

                                                                                    The offseason project is clear: Have the offensive recruiting staff catch up to the competence of the defensive recruiting staff.
                                                                                    Polian could be a wild card here.

                                                                                    But it's a simple meeting for Kelly to host;

                                                                                    all hands in the room. All egos checked at the door.

                                                                                    And always, always look forward rather than back.

                                                                                    Fix the problem, not the blame..

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by BrownerandFry View Post

                                                                                      While that is very very intriguing for the 2022 class, it will be in 2023 the the Blue Chip Ratio really takes off. We often start slow, but Keeley and Vernon are a nice start.

                                                                                      We can dream of adding Rhett, Bowen, Tate and the rest....
                                                                                      As someone who has been here for 10+ years now, it's always "wait till next year's class." Also have to disagree that we often start slow, our early commits are always high 4-stars (usually o-line prospects).

                                                                                      We are recruiting well right now, but I'll believe an elite class when I see one on NSD.

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                                                                                      • Originally posted by tussin View Post

                                                                                        As someone who has been here for 10+ years now, it's always "wait till next year's class." Also have to disagree that we often start slow, our early commits are always high 4-stars (usually o-line prospects).

                                                                                        We are recruiting well right now, but I'll believe an elite class when I see one on NSD.
                                                                                        99 percent of the time I’d agree but the 23 class is shaping up to be able to one NDs best all time classes simply because so many elite recruits have some sorting ND connection or affinity and Freeman has shown he is capable so far of closing. Can the O close too? It has the makings of a top 3-5 class. Maybe LL, Dale or Crus can back me down a bit?
                                                                                        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                                          99 percent of the time I’d agree but the 23 class is shaping up to be able to one NDs best all time classes simply because so many elite recruits have some sorting ND connection or affinity and Freeman has shown he is capable so far of closing. Can the O close too? It has the makings of a top 3-5 class. Maybe LL, Dale or Crus can back me down a bit?
                                                                                          Not that this hasn't happened before ('21 class comes to mind), but our O-Line board for '23 looks very promising.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by tussin View Post
                                                                                            For the past few months, I've been reading articles on The Athletic and listening to ISD podcasts stating that ND now has a renewed focus on recruiting with the big boys and that the strategy is paying off. Has this success been overstated? I see that our class is #2 right now and that's awesome, but the average recruit ranking is more or less the same that it has been the past ten years or so.
                                                                                            It is now up to 91 post Sneed, while we have sat 89 - 90 pretty consistently. So the question becomes very easy. Even without updates, which I think majority would say should net positive, do they land the guys they have on their board now and see that only creep higher or do they have to expand the board and see it pull down?

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                              It is now up to 91 post Sneed, while we have sat 89 - 90 pretty consistently. So the question becomes very easy. Even without updates, which I think majority would say should net positive, do they land the guys they have on their board now and see that only creep higher or do they have to expand the board and see it pull down?
                                                                                              I'd imagine it would creep higher or at the very least, stay flat to what it is now.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                                It is now up to 91 post Sneed, while we have sat 89 - 90 pretty consistently. So the question becomes very easy. Even without updates, which I think majority would say should net positive, do they land the guys they have on their board now and see that only creep higher or do they have to expand the board and see it pull down?
                                                                                                Agu decommit also raises our average.

                                                                                                I like looking at average but there's something to be said for quantities as well. I think every single one of us was happy to have him in the class.

                                                                                                There's currently an over reaction to offensive recruiting right now. Not being and the level the defense is currently doesn't mean it's "bad".

                                                                                                Plenty of time for them to finish strong as well.

                                                                                                I think some perspective is always nice. Tommy is in his second year (first real on campus recruiting as OC due to covid) after the previous OC almost caused a mutiny.

                                                                                                Meanwhile, we hired the hottest young DC commodity on the market after our previous two best two DCs.
                                                                                                ​​​​​​
                                                                                                I think it's understandable for the Defense to be steps ahead.
                                                                                                Prehistoric

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                                  It is now up to 91 post Sneed, while we have sat 89 - 90 pretty consistently. So the question becomes very easy. Even without updates, which I think majority would say should net positive, do they land the guys they have on their board now and see that only creep higher or do they have to expand the board and see it pull down?
                                                                                                  We expect a number of players to have healthy bumps: Gobaira, Mickey, Sneed, Moore, Morrison, A. Walker, Ty Chan and potentially others.

                                                                                                  We should be considered the favorites for two WRs in the .9500 range. We are in the mix/near the top for some highly rated defensive players: Kanu, Lucas, Moss (less so), Nwankpa

                                                                                                  We have a chance to add Schrauth and a lower possibility to add one of Wagner or Rice (very low).

                                                                                                  Each of those mentioned players would raise the average a good deal and many of our current commits should see small to large bumps in ratings. I don't think I'm being a homer with the players I listed above. I'll be shocked if we don't finish above a .9100 average, especially considering we're not looking at adding any special teams players.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post

                                                                                                    Agu decommit also raises our average.

                                                                                                    I like looking at average but there's something to be said for quantities as well. I think every single one of us was happy to have him in the class.

                                                                                                    There's currently an over reaction to offensive recruiting right now. Not being and the level the defense is currently doesn't mean it's "bad".

                                                                                                    Plenty of time for them to finish strong as well.

                                                                                                    I think some perspective is always nice. Tommy is in his second year (first real on campus recruiting as OC due to covid) after the previous OC almost caused a mutiny.

                                                                                                    Meanwhile, we hired the hottest young DC commodity on the market after our previous two best two DCs.
                                                                                                    ​​​​​​
                                                                                                    I think it's understandable for the Defense to be steps ahead.
                                                                                                    It's a little more than that. Despite coming in with the reputation of a 4-vert spread guru who could "manufacture offense" at will, Kelly's hallmark at ND has been defense. With the sole exception of Van Gorder, all of his DC hires have been good, and our consistency on that side of the ball is what has given us such a high floor recently. So while I'm thrilled about Freeman's hire and his apparent prowess on the recruiting trail, he's taking something we were already good at and bringing it to the next level.

                                                                                                    For comparison, here's how Kelly's ND offenses have ranked:

                                                                                                    '10 - 61st
                                                                                                    '11 - 26th
                                                                                                    '12 - 25th
                                                                                                    '13 - 37th
                                                                                                    '14 - 25th
                                                                                                    '15 - 8th
                                                                                                    '16 - 44th
                                                                                                    '17 - 13th
                                                                                                    '18 - 28th
                                                                                                    '19 - 25th
                                                                                                    '20 - 17th
                                                                                                    Only one elite unit, two that might be described as "acceptable" for where we want this program to be, and eight that are not remotely close to good enough for us to compete with 'Bama and Clemson. It's our offense that needs a transformative coordinator, and thus far, Rees hasn't shown me anything to indicate he's going to be that guy. Love him for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the way he allowed us to smoothly and efficiently transition away from Chip Long. But the concern over our offense isn't just "Freeman > Rees on the recruiting trail".
                                                                                                    Last edited by Whiskeyjack; 07-13-2021, 11:33 AM.

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post

                                                                                                      It's a little more than that. Despite coming in with the reputation of a 4-vert spread guru who could "manufacture offense" at will, Kelly's hallmark at ND has been defense. With the sole exception of Van Gorder, all of his DC hires have been good, and our consistency on that side of the ball is what has given us such a high floor recently. So while I'm thrilled about Freeman's hire and his apparent prowess on the recruiting trail, he's taking something we were already good at bringing it to the next level.

                                                                                                      For comparison, here's how Kelly's ND offenses have ranked:



                                                                                                      Only one elite unit, two that might be described as "acceptable" for where we want this program to be, and eight that are not remotely close to good enough for us to compete with 'Bama and Clemson. It's our offense that needs a transformative coordinator, and thus far, Rees hasn't shown me anything to indicate he's going to be that guy. Love him for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the way he allowed us to smoothly and efficiently transition away from Chip Long. But the concern over our offense isn't just "Freeman > Rees on the recruiting trail".
                                                                                                      It's still too early to make that call one way or the other, but according to your stats he put together the 3rd best statistical season in the decade in his first season as the OC. He did so with a piecemeal wr core.

                                                                                                      Now we'll have to see if he can do it with a piecemeal offensive line. If he can match last year's production, or somehow exceed it, I'd think we'd have to be pretty happy about that.

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