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  • '08 Class-rate them/thoughts

    Other than the studs of Rudolph and Floyd, the solid beyond expectations of Cave, the senior season flash of Gray, and potential of Slaughter/KLM-an unspectacular class. Am I wrong?

    OLB Kapron Lewis-Moore
    WR Deion Walker
    OG Trevor Robinson
    RB Jonas Gray
    WR Michael Floyd
    MLB Steve Filer
    S Dan McCarthy
    DE Ethan Johnson
    S Jamoris Slaughter
    CB Robert Blanton
    DT Brandon Newman
    OG Lane Clelland
    DT Hafis Williams
    TE Joseph Fauria-transfer
    SLB Darius Fleming
    QB Dayne Crist
    MLB Anthony McDonald
    WLB David Posluszny
    E Kyle Rudolph
    DT Sean Cwynar
    WR John Goodman
    C Braxston Cave
    OG Michael Golic
    Last edited by Fbolt; 02-26-2012, 05:22 AM.
    I have invested everything BUT tuition for Notre Dame. I make no apologies.

  • #2
    Trev Robinson? Rob Blanton? Idk I don't think it was the best class ever but I'd say it's a pretty solid class.

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    • #3
      I thought it was and is a solid class. Not a BCS title haul though.

      Comment


      • #4
        Had a lot of * power in terms of their ranking, but that's also why the game isn't played on paper. Anywho....didn't think it was or is a disappointing class. I've been more disappointed about the coaching staffs than I have the classes brought in by them.

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        • #5
          It was a solid class. It did have some of the biggest under achievers in recent memory. Crist, Goodman, Walker and McDonald fell well short of expectations.

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          • #6
            Overall, I'd give them a C+. I believe you need at least 8 or 9 players to be big time players from a class, and this one had 4 or 5. Not necessarily their fault, but not enough to take the program to a top level. The class of '11 will be there, '10 maybe but not likely, and '12 should definitely be there so things are looking up.
            Just cover, baby

            Comment


            • #7
              Huge disappointment of a class. Floyd and Rudolph lived up to their billing and so did Jonas Gray when he got the opportunity. There are others in there that turned out to be very good players like KLM, Cave, Blanton, Slaughter, Fleming, etc. that you named... but lets look at the guys who busted:

              Anthony McDonald - High 4 guy, has done nothing.
              David Posluszny - Has done nothing.
              Deion Walker - High 4, has done nothing.
              Trevor Robinson - Mega-recruit and 4 year starter, did not improve significantly during his career, major part of the OL problems in his first two years.
              Dan McCarthy - Was supposed to be better than his brother Kyle (who was/is an NFL caliber player) and instead did not make much of an impact at all thanks to injuries.
              Steve Filer - Hyper athletic, never put it all together into being more than just a spot player.
              Ethan Johnson - Mega recruit whose career was derailed by injuries.
              Brandon Newman
              Lane Clelland
              Hafis Williams
              Joseph Fauria - transfer.
              Dayne Crist - 5 QB who had his career derailed by injuries and other stuff.

              So that's 12 BUSTS (like complete busts or transfers or otherwise non-factors) in a class of 23 kids.... that means over half of this consensus top 5 class didn't produce... that's unbelievable.

              Comment


              • #8
                To be fair, this class was probably the most affected by the coaching change. We switched from a pro style to a spread and from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Those are pretty drastic changes.

                But, to be real, there were a serious number of busts in this class like IrishLax pointed out. Walker, Mcdonald, Filer, and Crist were all extremely sought after recruits and would be the crown jewels of many other teams classes. They did nothing, or next to nothing.

                Kind of make me sick to look at this...
                "im just letting you know. my squad gonna be great no matter what is being said." -Lou Nix III

                Comment


                • #9
                  ND had the #2 class on Rivals.

                  Oregon had the #18 class.
                  Wisconsin had the 31st.
                  Stanford had the 50th.


                  ...smh
                  "im just letting you know. my squad gonna be great no matter what is being said." -Lou Nix III

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Irish Fam View Post
                    ND had the #2 class on Rivals.

                    Oregon had the #18 class.
                    Wisconsin had the 31st.
                    Stanford had the 50th.


                    ...smh
                    Let's hope it says more about Rivals than it says about us ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think these guys suffered from poor development due to the coaching staff not really developing anyone. If these players would have been freshman this year, I think we would be talking about how great this class was 4 years from now.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gkautz10 View Post
                        I think these guys suffered from poor development due to the coaching staff not really developing anyone. If these players would have been freshman this year, I think we would be talking about how great this class was 4 years from now.
                        Yeah, we definitely lacked in the player development department. I think the other contributing factors were injuries, lack of right mindset, and just flat out being overrated.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                          Yeah, we definitely lacked in the player development department. I think the other contributing factors were injuries, lack of right mindset, and just flat out being overrated.
                          Yeah. Injuries. Atrocious player development in their first two years. The coaching/system transition followed by the new/old culture clash. General over-ratedness.
                          What strikes me is this: Robert Blanton, who I'd put at this point in the top five players in this class, was our lowest-rated recruit that year, per ESPN. There was talent. Too much of it just never got realized.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fbolt View Post
                            Other than the studs of Rudolph and Floyd, the solid beyond expectations of Cave, the senior season flash of Gray, and potential of Slaughter/KLM-an unspectacular class. Am I wrong?

                            OLB Kapron Lewis-Moore-------B: He has been a solid starter for us for three seasons
                            WR Deion Walker-------F: Self-Explanatory
                            OG Trevor Robinson-------B: Not the best OL on the team, but has been solid
                            RB Jonas Gray-------------C+: Senior season salvaged what was once a disappointing career
                            WR Michael Floyd---------A+: Holds many ND receiving records. He will be missed. Anyone disagree?
                            MLB Steve Filer-----------C: Didnt play as much as we though he would, but still a good special teamer
                            S Dan McCarthy--------D: Has not done much, if anything, with his time here
                            DE Ethan Johnson--------B-: For a five star recruit, he didnt have the impact he could of had. Still a good player though
                            S Jamoris Slaughter------B: Really emerged last season. Has got great versatility.
                            CB Robert Blanton--------B-: Played well, nothing spectactular besides the Michigan State game
                            DT Brandon Newman--------D-: Named defensive scout player of the year. THats gotta count for something.
                            OG Lane Clelland----------D: Didnt play much so the grade make sense
                            DT Hafis Williams---------C: Decent rotational player, didnt see the field that much
                            TE Joseph Fauria---------D: Played decent as a freshman, blocking-------transfer
                            SLB Darius Fleming---------B+: Seemed like his sophomore year was his best, bbut still played well since the.
                            QB Dayne Crist----------C: 2010 was a decent season for him. Too many knee injuries-------transfer
                            MLB Anthony McDonald--------C-: Saw the field only in sure win situations, not much production from a four star linebacker
                            WLB David Posluszny---------D+: Didnt really do anything besides special teams
                            E Kyle Rudolph----------A-: Quality tight End, didnt have his fair share of injuries though
                            DT Sean Cwynar----------C+: Did a good job filing in for Ian Williams, solid rotational player
                            WR John Goodman----------C-: Not much from him. Needs to make his 5th count.
                            C Braxston Cave---------A-: Has developed into a really great center
                            OG Michael Golic---------C: Didnt really do much, except for his three starts when Cave got hurt
                            Overall: B/B- Resulted in some stars, some busts, and some in between.
                            Last edited by CanadalovesND; 02-27-2012, 11:48 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Based on the available scholarships left and 5th years available. I would love for them to use the last schollie on D. Walker... WR position is really open right now and who knows, maybe he will finally show his talents...

                              Based on the 6 rumored 5th years getting a schollie, I think it leaves one free one, Walker will be waiting... :)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                Yeah, we definitely lacked in the player development department. I think the other contributing factors were injuries, lack of right mindset, and just flat out being overrated.
                                Player development is key here IMO. They had potential, but required the "right" coach to get that potential out of them. Hope the coaches under Kelly can make this development happen. Not too sure I've seen that happen yet...

                                ...but I'm hoping! This year should be key (I say this every year ).
                                I have invested everything BUT tuition for Notre Dame. I make no apologies.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It has been mentioned that coaching staffs are hoping for about 9 players capable of playing solid starting positions during their upperclass years. That would be deemed a "good" class. Going from good to great would require extra performance by those "good" players.

                                  2008 had Rudolph, Floyd, Cave, KLM, Johnson, Slaughter, Robinson, Blanton, Cwynar, Fleming: to my estimation, a pretty solid "10". When I add to them an extremely valuable late contributor in Gray, and serviceable contributors in Williams, Golic, Goodman, and potential starters pre-injuries in McDonald and Crist, I am counting a VERY solid number of good D1 recruits.

                                  Can one make an argument for "great"? Despite Rudolph, Floyd, Cave, Gray's senior year, and possibly KLM and Slaughter, probably not. Still that's a lot of talent which actually played. I'll give the class a B-B+.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by CanadalovesND View Post
                                    Originally Posted by Fbolt
                                    Other than the studs of Rudolph and Floyd, the solid beyond expectations of Cave, the senior season flash of Gray, and potential of Slaughter/KLM-an unspectacular class. Am I wrong?

                                    OLB Kapron Lewis-Moore-------B: He has been a solid starter for us for three seasons
                                    WR Deion Walker-------F: Self-Explanatory
                                    OG Trevor Robinson-------B: Not the best OL on the team, but has been solid
                                    RB Jonas Gray-------------C+: Senior season salvaged what was once a disappointing career
                                    WR Michael Floyd---------A+: Holds many ND receiving records. He will be missed. Anyone disagree?
                                    MLB Steve Filer-----------C: Didnt play as much as we though he would, but still a good special teamer
                                    S Dan McCarthy--------D: Has not done much, if anything, with his time here
                                    DE Ethan Johnson--------B-: For a five star recruit, he didnt have the impact he could of had. Still a good player though
                                    S Jamoris Slaughter------B: Really emerged last season. Has got great versatility.
                                    CB Robert Blanton--------B-: Played well, nothing spectactular besides the Michigan State game
                                    DT Brandon Newman--------D-: Named defensive scout player of the year. THats gotta count for something.
                                    OG Lane Clelland----------D: Didnt play much so the grade make sense
                                    DT Hafis Williams---------C: Decent rotational player, didnt see the field that much
                                    TE Joseph Fauria---------D: Played decent as a freshman, blocking-------transfer
                                    SLB Darius Fleming---------B+: Seemed like his sophomore year was his best, bbut still played well since the.
                                    QB Dayne Crist----------C: 2010 was a decent season for him. Too many knee injuries-------transfer
                                    MLB Anthony McDonald--------C-: Saw the field only in sure win situations, not much production from a four star linebacker
                                    WLB David Posluszny---------D+: Didnt really do anything besides special teams
                                    E Kyle Rudolph----------A-: Quality tight End, didnt have his fair share of injuries though
                                    DT Sean Cwynar----------C+: Did a good job filing in for Ian Williams, solid rotational player
                                    WR John Goodman----------C-: Not much from him. Needs to make his 5th count.
                                    C Braxston Cave---------A-: Has developed into a really great center
                                    OG Michael Golic---------C: Didnt really do much, except for his three starts when Cave got hurt.
                                    If you use the grades given in this previous post, which I believe to be accurate enough, and give each grade a sequential numbering value (A+ = 13 to F = 1 or vice versa) you can find the average. According to this methodology the average falls between C and C+, for what it’s worth.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                      It has been mentioned that coaching staffs are hoping for about 9 players capable of playing solid starting positions during their upperclass years. That would be deemed a "good" class. Going from good to great would require extra performance by those "good" players.
                                      Never understood this. Why is nine eventual starters considered a "good" recruiting class?
                                      Yes, you've got 22 top-of-the-depth-chart positions, and nine is nearly half that.
                                      But realistically there are closer to 30 "starting" jobs on a college football team, between nickel package DBs and the second RB and TE and extra WRs and the defensive line rotation. And that's not even counting injuries, which are constant and plentiful. From a class of 23, I'd want more than nine guys making major contributions in their career before I consider a class to be good.

                                      Also, why is "starter" the benchmark? Someone's got to start. Have enough injuries and it'll be a walk-on. That doesn't mean they're any good.

                                      To me, the best ways to judge a class are in how many games they win on Saturdays and how many go on to play on Sundays, and how hard they are to replace. Eight wins each in their jr/sr seasons. A few draft picks. Two to four guys (Floyd and Rudolph and maybe Cave and Gray) who aren't easily replaceable.

                                      By those measures, this class was OK, but that's about it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Starters are starters. 9 or 10 in each upper class gives about 19 on the field starting. If no frosh start, then you have three precocious sophs who are the other starters. Nickels, dimes, second TEs are back-ups. Nothing says that you don't play back-ups. Nothing says that a class needs no back-ups also. 2008 had back-ups as well. The 9 or 10 number comes from looking at the big picture --- there should always be 9 or 10 in each class. Therefore there are seven or so "back-ups" as sophomores who will ultimately start when the older guys graduate --- the nickels, dimes, second TEs etc. Asking for everybody in every class to be starting and on the field not only is unrealistic, but would mean that almost all underclassmen would be riding pine until each new class graduated.

                                        I realize that I shouldn't bother to clarify matters such as this, as certain visions of what we're talking about apparently drastically differ and are probably irreconcilable. The saving grace of this is that none of it matters.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                          Starters are starters.
                                          I guess this is what I don't get. Golden Tate and TJ Jones have both been starting wide receivers at the University of Notre Dame. I like Jones, but he's no Golden Tate.
                                          To me, a "good" class in the end produces more Tates (and Floyds and Te'os and, yes, more guys like Blanton and KLM who rise from less renown to become NFL-caliber ballplayers) than we have been lately. Like I said, just because they're on the field when the game starts doesn't mean they're any good.
                                          Also, the term "starter" is so fungible. Who was our starting tailback last year? Wood or Gray? Who were our starting defensive linemen? Did Motta or Slaughter start at safety? Fox or Calabrese? It depended at least somewhat on who was hot and who we played.
                                          Like you said, our probably-diverging opinions on this topic don't really matter. Blessedly. But I think it's an interesting question. I've heard this "nine starters equals a good class" argument lately, and I just think it sets a pretty low bar.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            I think if 50-60% of a class becomes a starter at some point that is a good class. (That may be low I know) The Alabama's, LSU's, or any other SEC teams don't have 22 starting seniors.

                                            The reality is, there are going to be bust, career back-up, and only special team players. They all contribute in some facet though. "Bust" help in practice more than a walk-on will, back-ups help relieve the younger more talented starters when need be, and special team players give up their body every time they are out there to make a great play.

                                            The 2008 class may not have been the greatest but it has done about what it should have.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by stlnd01 View Post
                                              I guess this is what I don't get. Golden Tate and TJ Jones have both been starting wide receivers at the University of Notre Dame. I like Jones, but he's no Golden Tate.
                                              To me, a "good" class in the end produces more Tates (and Floyds and Te'os and, yes, more guys like Blanton and KLM who rise from less renown to become NFL-caliber ballplayers) than we have been lately. Like I said, just because they're on the field when the game starts doesn't mean they're any good.
                                              Also, the term "starter" is so fungible. Who was our starting tailback last year? Wood or Gray? Who were our starting defensive linemen? Did Motta or Slaughter start at safety? Fox or Calabrese? It depended at least somewhat on who was hot and who we played.
                                              Like you said, our probably-diverging opinions on this topic don't really matter. Blessedly. But I think it's an interesting question. I've heard this "nine starters equals a good class" argument lately, and I just think it sets a pretty low bar.
                                              That’s why I think the class should be graded specifically on each individual player and not a label of “starter” or “backup”. If you grade each player for their contributions on the field (as someone did in an earlier post) I think it was a little above average class with a couple excellent players, but a good amount of average to below average players.

                                              I also wouldn’t say this class has “done about what it should have”. What was the class supposed to do? They never brought the team up to the level of competition we as Notre Dame fans expect. Now this does not mean it was all the class of 2008s fault, but that is another discussion for another tread (maybe "What does ND need to turn the corner?").

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