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'22 OH QB Drew Allar (Penn State Verbal)

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  • https://247sports.com/college/notre-...733367/?page=9

    Loy acting like its over. Angeli it will be.. fuck

    https://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/57391

    not promising either.

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    • Im tellin gyou BK doesnt want a QB he has to look up to. 6'5 is TOOOOO TAAALLLL
      "From Chaos comes Clarity"

      Comment


      • Maybe we can get Freeman in on this recruitment? Only half kidding...

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        • QB Recruits all time under BK (with Angeli included for context):
          Gunner Kiel National 26 0.9878
          Brandon Wimbush National 46 0.9792
          Tyler Buchner National 70 0.9685
          Phil Jurkovec National 83 0.9593
          Malik Zaire National 162 0.9300
          Drew Pyne National 225 0.9164
          Avery Davis National 246 0.9078
          DeShone Kizer National 242 0.9073
          Andrew Hendrix National 284 0.8999
          Everett Golson National 267 0.8937
          Steve Angeli National 375 0.8900
          Brendon Clark National 521 0.8796
          Tommy Rees National 421 0.8795
          Ian Book National 517 0.8681
          Luke Massa National 859 0.8559
          Ron Powlus III National n/a 0.8126
          Average overall = .9085 equates to 4*
          I consider the following as "successes": Wimbush, Kizer, Golson, Rees, Book.
          Successes average overall = .9056 which is really carried by Wimbush's .9792, excluding him it drops to .8872.

          Angeli is maybe right in that "sweet spot" based on previous successful QBs under BK.

          I am still in the thinking of we need 2 qbs. Would only be the third time we have under BK (2010 we had 3 (Hendrix, Rees, Massa) and just last year we took 2 (Buchner and Pyne). But with it being a position that is the most important in football and maybe looking at losing Clark to a medical (no info just speculating) I think it would be prudent.
          Prehistoric

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          • If it’s Angeli we should definitely take two. Jackson would be a guy that I’d look at.

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            • Who is ND recruiting the hardest at QB?

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              • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post
                If it’s Angeli we should definitely take two. Jackson would be a guy that I’d look at.
                I think he picked up a Vols offer the same day they offered Allar.

                18 offers since new year including almost half of the SEC.
                Prehistoric

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                • Watched his film again, Angeli wouldn't be the end of the world. I cant find it, but that video of him working out/ 7 on 7 game where he just continued to throw duck after duck is hard for me to get past :)

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                  • Originally posted by SoIll View Post
                    Watched his film again, Angeli wouldn't be the end of the world. I cant find it, but that video of him working out/ 7 on 7 game where he just continued to throw duck after duck is hard for me to get past :)
                    Maybe he was filming a commercial for The General that day.

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                    • Possible that the supposed big call today doesn’t even happen.

                      https://247sports.com/college/notre-...845016/?page=2


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                      • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post
                        QB Recruits all time under BK (with Angeli included for context):
                        Gunner Kiel National 26 0.9878
                        Brandon Wimbush National 46 0.9792
                        Tyler Buchner National 70 0.9685
                        Phil Jurkovec National 83 0.9593
                        Malik Zaire National 162 0.9300
                        Drew Pyne National 225 0.9164
                        Avery Davis National 246 0.9078
                        DeShone Kizer National 242 0.9073
                        Andrew Hendrix National 284 0.8999
                        Everett Golson National 267 0.8937
                        Steve Angeli National 375 0.8900
                        Brendon Clark National 521 0.8796
                        Tommy Rees National 421 0.8795
                        Ian Book National 517 0.8681
                        Luke Massa National 859 0.8559
                        Ron Powlus III National n/a 0.8126
                        I swallowed my own throw up.
                        It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SoIll View Post
                          Watched his film again, Angeli wouldn't be the end of the world. I cant find it, but that video of him working out/ 7 on 7 game where he just continued to throw duck after duck is hard for me to get past :)
                          Not the end of the world indeed but just more of the same. To his credit he does somethings on film that rightfully earned him solid P5 scholarship offers. But, it just feels like a solid/safe choice when we have, for the most part, a room of those guys already. The room lacks upside and size. I was really hoping we'd use this class to get the big guy with the big arm.

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                          • It's not so much the big arm as it is between the ears.

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                            • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
                              It's not so much the big arm as it is between the ears.
                              I will take both please.
                              Prehistoric

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                              • Angeli strikes me as a sort of guy who could come to ND and be successful but at same time he could go somewhere else and flame out and never be heard of again, if that makes sense?
                                What did Davonte do?

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                                • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post

                                  I will take both please.
                                  Exactly, the good ones have both. And one is easier to develop than the other. We shouldn't be excluding ourselves from these recruitments because these guys are not a young Tommy Rees.

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                                  • They should have taken Angeli months ago and then seen how it shakes out from there

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                                    • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
                                      It's not so much the big arm as it is between the ears.
                                      They have to start recruiting for guys with more raw talent and building them from there. There will be busts, Wimbush. There will be successes, Kizer. But it's pretty silly to act like Tommy is properly discerning (over the phone and with virtual meetings no less) the mental aptitude of every top QB in the country with the expectation that he'll find the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady. It's a lot easier to look at the big guys with the big arms (or any recruit with an elite-ish tangible trait for that matter), recruit 5-6 every 4 years and coach them up. One is realistic and one is of fairy tales.

                                      We're recruiting to a profile that just doesn't exist much in the NFL. How many QB's go in the top 2-3 rds of the draft every year 6'2 or under and/or don't have an elite physical trait to them? We just had an entire depth chart of them. The NFL isn't drafting smart QB's. They are drafting talented QB's. Who may or may not be smart.

                                      Clark Lea did an interview with 247 sports last offseason and he was asked about length at the LB position and it's relevance to recruiting. He basically said, that they will recruit a 6' LB if they think he can play but they will not recruit a room full of 6' LB's because it limits the upside of the room. Time for Tommy and company to do the same. Have to start pushing the room into a physical profile that has more upside. You can do that with size, athleticism, arm strength, etc. but it needs to be done. If you cannot develop those guys then you shouldn't have a job.

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                                      • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                        They have to start recruiting for guys with more raw talent and building them from there. There will be busts, Wimbush. There will be successes, Kizer. But it's pretty silly to act like Tommy is properly discerning (over the phone and with virtual meetings no less) the mental aptitude of every top QB in the country with the expectation that he'll find the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady. It's a lot easier to look at the big guys with the big arms (or any recruit with an elite-ish tangible trait for that matter), recruit 5-6 every 4 years and coach them up. One is realistic and one is of fairy tales.

                                        We're recruiting to a profile that just doesn't exist much in the NFL. How many QB's go in the top 2-3 rds of the draft every year 6'2 or under and/or don't have an elite physical trait to them? We just had an entire depth chart of them. The NFL isn't drafting smart QB's. They are drafting talented QB's. Who may or may not be smart.

                                        Clark Lea did an interview with 247 sports last offseason and he was asked about length at the LB position and it's relevance to recruiting. He basically said, that they will recruit a 6' LB if they think he can play but they will not recruit a room full of 6' LB's because it limits the upside of the room. Time for Tommy and company to do the same. Have to start pushing the room into a physical profile that has more upside. You can do that with size, athleticism, arm strength, etc. but it needs to be done. If you cannot develop those guys then you shouldn't have a job.
                                        Jurkovec was everything you describe but it didn't work out with him and Tommy. It sounds to me like Tommy is just comfortable with QB's who share similar traits to his own, perhaps thats due to his inexperience maybe? i don't know, I am just going by own coaching experience in HS Sports but starting out i found it very much easier to connect and motivate with the kids i saw as being "like me" but with time you learn what works with different people regardless of the differences between you.
                                        What did Davonte do?

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                                        • Originally posted by dublinirish View Post

                                          Jurkovec was everything you describe but it didn't work out with him and Tommy. It sounds to me like Tommy is just comfortable with QB's who share similar traits to his own, perhaps thats due to his inexperience maybe? i don't know, I am just going by own coaching experience in HS Sports but starting out i found it very much easier to connect and motivate with the kids i saw as being "like me" but with time you learn what works with different people regardless of the differences between you.
                                          Jurkovec was a product of the issues with Chip Long, not Tommy.
                                          Last edited by Irish Man3; 03-04-2021, 08:46 PM.

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                                          • Chip Kelly? Do we need a comma?

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                                            • Originally posted by dublinirish View Post

                                              Jurkovec was everything you describe but it didn't work out with him and Tommy. It sounds to me like Tommy is just comfortable with QB's who share similar traits to his own, perhaps thats due to his inexperience maybe? i don't know, I am just going by own coaching experience in HS Sports but starting out i found it very much easier to connect and motivate with the kids i saw as being "like me" but with time you learn what works with different people regardless of the differences between you.
                                              I don’t get the Tommy is comfortable with QBs like him thing. Book is and was better than Phil. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that. Angeli is bigger and has a much stronger arm. He’s the closest of our 4 offers and they aren’t really similar. Buchner is a complete different QB. Pyne is the only one who somewhat fits that stereotype post Book

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                                              • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                Book is and was better than Phil.
                                                Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?

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                                                • I did see posted on r/cfb something I hadn't seen before, and that is within a 3 game span this past year, Allar threw 9 interceptions. That is a bit of a red flag if true.
                                                  "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                                  • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post
                                                    I did see posted on r/cfb something I hadn't seen before, and that is within a 3 game span this past year, Allar threw 9 interceptions. That is a bit of a red flag if true.
                                                    I think it was 7 Int's in his first two games and he threw 2 more the rest of the season. Some guy from his hometown posted it and said he was fighting an injury coming out of camp.

                                                    No doubt his full film didn't impress Tommy as much as his highlights.

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                                                    • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post

                                                      I think it was 7 Int's in his first two games and he threw 2 more the rest of the season. Some guy from his hometown posted it and said he was fighting an injury coming out of camp.

                                                      No doubt his full film didn't impress Tommy as much as his highlights.
                                                      Ahh. Gotcha.
                                                      "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post

                                                        Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?
                                                        this, im assuming, is you projecting PJ to ball out the next two years?
                                                        Prehistoric

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                                                        • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post

                                                          Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?
                                                          Yes.

                                                          does it matter though? A 2023 state in relation to a 2019/2020 QB battle?

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                                                          • .
                                                            Last edited by PANDFAN; 03-05-2021, 01:23 PM. Reason: wrong thread
                                                            EMPTY SPACE WAITING FOR THE NEXT HOT TAKE

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                                                            • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post

                                                              Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?
                                                              My preference is that ND win a National Championship by then, and in that instance, I won't give a shit and I doubt anyone else will either.
                                                              It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • Originally posted by NDdomer2 View Post

                                                                this, im assuming, is you projecting PJ to ball out the next two years?
                                                                I'm not projecting him to ball out necessarily. I do think he'll get better than 2020 which was his first year in a new scheme and his first time being QB1 in 2.5 yrs.

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                                                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                  Yes.

                                                                  Does it matter though? A 2023 state in relation to a 2019/2020 QB battle?
                                                                  I won't argue Book won the QB battle when Phil was here. So I agree with the "was".

                                                                  The "is" will be determined.

                                                                  I could see Phil on a couple of 9-4/10-3 teams throwing for 3500-ish yds and being a high draft pick.

                                                                  If I had to put money on it, I'd say it's most likely the majority of ND fans will look back and say Phil was the better prospect and turned out to be the better QB. He & ND Football were simply a victim of timing and the relationship he had with some of the staff.

                                                                  Does it matter? I hope not. Hopefully Coan does balls out this year and ND sneaks into the playoffs with its favorable schedule.

                                                                  In '22, hopefully Buchner's good enough to beat Ohio St, Clemson and a loaded (if not well coached) SC.

                                                                  So it may not ever matter one way or the other but I'm sure it'll be debated plenty over the next 5 years.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                                    My preference is that ND win a National Championship by then, and in that instance, I won't give a shit and I doubt anyone else will either.
                                                                    '24's your first chance. I'm not sure Bama wins a NC having to play:

                                                                    Ohio St

                                                                    Clemson

                                                                    SC

                                                                    Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

                                                                    Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

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                                                                    • Committed to Penn State

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                                                                      • Penn State is gross.

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                                                                        • BTW, I know we haven't had the best success at producing NFL QBs in recent years, but literally who can PSU hang their hats on? Isn't Kerry Collins probably their most successful NFL QB ever? That's very just...bleh.
                                                                          "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post
                                                                            BTW, I know we haven't had the best success at producing NFL QBs in recent years, but literally who can PSU hang their hats on? Isn't Kerry Collins probably their most successful NFL QB ever? That's very just...bleh.
                                                                            The last few cycles havent really landed them anything spectacular at the position but they have a hell of a haul this year with Allar and Pribula. (they have a nice class going so far in general)
                                                                            Prehistoric

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                                                                            • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post

                                                                              '24's your first chance. I'm not sure Bama wins a NC having to play:

                                                                              Ohio St

                                                                              Clemson

                                                                              SC

                                                                              Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

                                                                              Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas
                                                                              I won't be thinking about Book or Jurkovec.
                                                                              It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • And I think this might make it sting a little more than usual. PSU over ND? Tommy’s handling of the situation doesn’t help but who in there right minds want to be QB1 at Pedo State over ND.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post
                                                                                  And I think this might make it sting a little more than usual. PSU over ND? Tommy’s handling of the situation doesn’t help but who in there right minds want to be QB1 at Pedo State over ND.
                                                                                  Yea, until I'm proven wrong, this is going to go down as a recruiting hiccup that was not handled well.
                                                                                  Love You JB 64.....RIP.....AI720....4EVER

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • I don’t see how this is any hiccup bigger than Ty Simpson. Allar never publicly said anything that would indicate we were this prime contender

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                                                                                    • I don't see this being a hiccup at the moment. Allar recently became a name, happens every class. Given who ND currently has and getting Angeli they will be fine at QB.

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                                                                                      • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                                        I don’t see how this is any hiccup bigger than Ty Simpson. Allar never publicly said anything that would indicate we were this prime contender
                                                                                        Originally posted by irishandy View Post
                                                                                        I don't see this being a hiccup at the moment. Allar recently became a name, happens every class. Given who ND currently has and getting Angeli they will be fine at QB.

                                                                                        Didn't you know we're supposed to land every QB?

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                                                                                          I don’t see how this is any hiccup bigger than Ty Simpson. Allar never publicly said anything that would indicate we were this prime contender
                                                                                          A top QB picking Bama over ND versus a top QB PSU over ND is much much different. The recruiting optics on this are not good. Whether it matters on the field is less the point than the optics that ND is settling for a guy that they clearly tried to move on from but just did so in epic failure fashion.

                                                                                          Do those optics really matter will be the question. Will it affect our other top RB, WR, and OL targets? We'll have to see on that as well.

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                                                                                          • I don’t like losing (if true) a QB recruit to PSU ever.... This isn’t supposed to happen unless perhaps he’s from heavy PSU country or something. I haven’t followed this close enough to know, but it seems like we wanted him and only took Angeli after he indicated he was going there. Their program isn’t in a great place and their on-field results haven’t been great. Seems like we shouldn’t lose QB recruits to this program. And yes I do know their recruiting is improving, blah, blah, blah - but Penn St ain’t ND

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                                                              A top QB picking Bama over ND versus a top QB PSU over ND is much much different. The recruiting optics on this are not good. Whether it matters on the field is less the point than the optics that ND is settling for a guy that they clearly tried to move on from but just did so in epic failure fashion.

                                                                                              Do those optics really matter will be the question. Will it affect our other top RB, WR, and OL targets? We'll have to see on that as well.
                                                                                              Our view on the optics are getting fueled by Loy (like him but he was way off) and possible other pay sites hyping up Allar & ND. In the end he was just a guy that never truly considered us. Ty did go to Bama yes but Tennessee, Ole Miss other schools he considered over us. Neither are good don’t get me wrong. But I just don’t view Allar as any bigger strikeout than normal IMO

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                                                                A top QB picking Bama over ND versus a top QB PSU over ND is much much different. The recruiting optics on this are not good. Whether it matters on the field is less the point than the optics that ND is settling for a guy that they clearly tried to move on from but just did so in epic failure fashion.

                                                                                                Do those optics really matter will be the question. Will it affect our other top RB, WR, and OL targets? We'll have to see on that as well.
                                                                                                Im ignorant of the minutae but are we sure we are settling for Angelli? Seems to me the offer the Allar was halfhearted and very late.
                                                                                                "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • Originally posted by Dale View Post

                                                                                                  Our view on the optics are getting fueled by Loy (like him but he was way off) and possible other pay sites hyping up Allar & ND. In the end he was just a guy that never truly considered us. Ty did go to Bama yes but Tennessee, Ole Miss other schools he considered over us. Neither are good don’t get me wrong. But I just don’t view Allar as any bigger strikeout than normal IMO
                                                                                                  Loy doesn't have much to do with it. The optics are getting fueled by ND offering two top 100 QB prospects late and because of that, never being seriously considered. If Angelli was the guy then they never would've offered the others and attempted to push as hard as they did. When they realized he wasn't the guy, they weren't strong enough to overtake the other programs recruiting them. And, then they doubled back to Angelli once they looked beaten and took his commitment right away. In fact, they put Angelli into the commitment circle in front of Allar once Allar shutdown Rees's attempts to get BK involved. It looks weak.

                                                                                                  And FWIW, Allar had been on ND's radar for over a year as he was an unofficial visitor during the 2019 season. And if Ty Simpson wasn't on their radar for months then someone needs to get them a new radar. They basically neglected the QB board for several months until it was too late.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                  • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post

                                                                                                    Loy doesn't have much to do with it. The optics are getting fueled by ND offering two top 100 QB prospects late and because of that, never being seriously considered. If Angelli was the guy then they never would've offered the others and attempted to push as hard as they did. When they realized he wasn't the guy, they weren't strong enough to overtake the other programs recruiting them. And, then they doubled back to Angelli once they looked beaten and took his commitment right away. In fact, they put Angelli into the commitment circle in front of Allar once Allar shutdown Rees's attempts to get BK involved. It looks weak.

                                                                                                    And FWIW, Allar had been on ND's radar for over a year as he was an unofficial visitor during the 2019 season. And if Ty Simpson wasn't on their radar for months then someone needs to get them a new radar. They basically neglected the QB board for several months until it was too late.
                                                                                                    I may have been viewing the word optics differently than you. I was thinking optics as like national view, 100 foot view. I think everything you posted above is true, that’s the nitty gritty though to me not just optics which I was viewing as a much more general thing

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                                                                                                    • If I’m understanding correctly we wanted Ty but had no real shot then Allar decided to go with PsU so ND was left having to take Angeli’s commitment?
                                                                                                      "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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