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'22 CA WR C.J. Williams (Southern Cal Verbal)

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  • USC where receivers go to be overhyped, barely progress from freshman to their early entrant junior year, and then ultimately flop in the nfl. Neato

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    • Pyne seemed quite happy on the sidelines today, saw him numerous times with the other QB's. But its strange that he gets no reps after playing so well vs Wisky

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      • Originally posted by stpeteirish View Post
        Pyne seemed quite happy on the sidelines today, saw him numerous times with the other QB's. But its strange that he gets no reps after playing so well vs Wisky
        I was wondering the same thing. Maybe they're trying to squeeze out an extra year of eligibility for him whatever he does?

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        • Originally posted by BigJim View Post

          I was wondering the same thing. Maybe they're trying to squeeze out an extra year of eligibility for him whatever he does?
          Or just maybe he's just the third most talented QB in the roster
          Prehistoric

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          • Our QB recruiting is now affecting our Receiver recruiting.

            Get a Quarterback. It's not that difficult.

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            • BK and the staff need to make a visit to Williams while out in California next week.

              Why would he want to go to USC??

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              • Proving once again why ending the season in Cali is so important.

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                • This might all be NIL driven. Heard SC is promoting how much money he can make with their ties to "Hollywood."

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                  • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post
                    This might all be NIL driven. Heard SC is promoting how much money he can make with their ties to "Hollywood."
                    NIL driven? After seeing the Coliseum being empty? Come on...

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                    • The early NSD cannot get here soon enough. I hope he sticks with ND.

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                      • Originally posted by DONTH8 View Post

                        NIL driven? After seeing the Coliseum being empty? Come on...
                        Attendance has nothing to do with a kid getting paid.

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                        • USC has been selling that since before NIL was a thing. Always been part of their pitch

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                          • Originally posted by Dale View Post
                            USC has been selling that since before NIL was a thing. Always been part of their pitch
                            I have a feeling if they hire a big name coach like Franklin their chances of poaching get better.

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                            • Originally posted by SBirishlawyer View Post
                              USC where receivers go to be overhyped, barely progress from freshman to their early entrant junior year, and then ultimately flop in the nfl. Neato
                              I dislike USC as much as any other ND fan but that's not entirely fair.

                              Robert Woods has been a high level contributor (before his injury ofc), Agholor still plays at a decently high level, Pittman is emerging for the Colts.

                              Add in that Drake London was having a killer year before he got injured.

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                              • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post

                                Attendance has nothing to do with a kid getting paid.
                                Who on USC is "getting paid". LA has so many distractions from college football. The fans in the area are going to gravitate to teh biggest thing. The Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Dodgers... etc. USC isn't even competent, no one cares about them there. Shown by the lack of fans going to their biggest rivalry game. I would love to know who on their team made the most off NIL. I promise you it's not so much more than what players are makign elsewhere. Not to mention cost of living, that dollar doesnt go as far out there. But I digress.

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                                • Originally posted by GoldenAura View Post

                                  I dislike USC as much as any other ND fan but that's not entirely fair.

                                  Robert Woods has been a high level contributor (before his injury ofc), Agholor still plays at a decently high level, Pittman is emerging for the Colts.

                                  Add in that Drake London was having a killer year before he got injured.
                                  I still believe in Amon-Ra.
                                  "Fvck Michigan" - The World

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                                  • Originally posted by Henges24 View Post

                                    I still believe in Amon-Ra.
                                    Yup. Unfortunately for him he has to deal with Detroit's continued dysfunction but he can definitely be a good player for them.

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                                    • Originally posted by DONTH8 View Post

                                      Who on USC is "getting paid". LA has so many distractions from college football. The fans in the area are going to gravitate to teh biggest thing. The Rams, Chargers, Lakers, Dodgers... etc. USC isn't even competent, no one cares about them there. Shown by the lack of fans going to their biggest rivalry game. I would love to know who on their team made the most off NIL. I promise you it's not so much more than what players are makign elsewhere. Not to mention cost of living, that dollar doesnt go as far out there. But I digress.
                                      The kid already lives in So Cal. Please don't tell me your recruiting pitch is come to South Bend it is cheaper to live. Also most ND fans don't live in South Bend so not much to promote locally. Is a subway alum going to promote the kid in NYC?

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                                      • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post

                                        The kid already lives in So Cal. Please don't tell me your recruiting pitch is come to South Bend it is cheaper to live. Also most ND fans don't live in South Bend so not much to promote locally. Is a subway alum going to promote the kid in NYC?
                                        My pitch wouldnt be that, but it also wouldnt be "Come here, you can make more NIL money." I'm just pointing out that the NIL arguement would be the weakest one for USC to use, imo. I dont think he would make more money at USC than he would at any other big time college football program. If that is what's pulling him to USC, then I think I could point him in the direction of 20 other schools that I bet he could make more at.

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                                        • I don't mind missing on a Cali kid to SC (see: Ju Ju). What I do mind is LOSING a committed Cali kid to a rudderless, down SC. Del needs to do better or GTFO. Maybe he needs to GTFO regardless. Either way, the current state of the WR room/depth chart is inexcusable for a program with as much going for it as ND...

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                                          • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post
                                            I don't mind missing on a Cali kid to SC (see: Ju Ju). What I do mind is LOSING a committed Cali kid to a rudderless, down SC. Del needs to do better or GTFO. Maybe he needs to GTFO regardless. Either way, the current state of the WR room/depth chart is inexcusable for a program with as much going for it as ND...
                                            SC is one of the cool schools and ND is not.

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                                            • As someone currently living in LA, I will say people here generally do not care / pay much attention to college football. Having previously lived in both the South and the Midwest, the interest level in LA is nowhere close to what it is in those other 2 parts of the country. What really moves the needle here are the Dodgers and the Lakers (even the Rams aren't quite there yet although they've been getting more traction every passing season). Anything beyond those teams just doesn't generate nearly as much excitement. There are of course the UCLA and USC bubbles that exist here, but they seem fairly self-contained (and I live a block from UCLA).

                                              I really don't see how USC would have a significant NIL advantage over most other blue bloods. They are in a major city, but it's a major city where they're competing with many other teams for people's attention. And that doesn't even factor in the non-sports attractions of which there are many. In sum, sure there is a larger overall pie of money and people's attention in a city such as LA, but the competition here is significant and USC doesn't seem to be outcompeting the other attractions here at all. It's a wealthy university with many connected alums, but that's also true for Notre Dame and many other schools. The main locational benefits I see here are the ones we always mention: great weather; access to a fun, major city; and proximity to the entertainment industry (if they're interested in that space).

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                                              • Originally posted by HereComesTheManor View Post
                                                As someone currently living in LA, I will say people here generally do not care / pay much attention to college football. Having previously lived in both the South and the Midwest, the interest level in LA is nowhere close to what it is in those other 2 parts of the country. What really moves the needle here are the Dodgers and the Lakers (even the Rams aren't quite there yet although they've been getting more traction every passing season). Anything beyond those teams just doesn't generate nearly as much excitement. There are of course the UCLA and USC bubbles that exist here, but they seem fairly self-contained (and I live a block from UCLA).

                                                I really don't see how USC would have a significant NIL advantage over most other blue bloods. They are in a major city, but it's a major city where they're competing with many other teams for people's attention. And that doesn't even factor in the non-sports attractions of which there are many. In sum, sure there is a larger overall pie of money and people's attention in a city such as LA, but the competition here is significant and USC doesn't seem to be outcompeting the other attractions here at all. It's a wealthy university with many connected alums, but that's also true for Notre Dame and many other schools. The main locational benefits I see here are the ones we always mention: great weather; access to a fun, major city; and proximity to the entertainment industry (if they're interested in that space).
                                                Yeah, and you all also have homeless folks shitting all over sidewalks and the such, or at least so I’m told. High crime rate as well although South Bend has its fair share too.
                                                Last edited by Irish2155; 11-21-2021, 07:27 PM.

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                                                • Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post

                                                  Yeah, and you all also have homeless folks shitting all over sidewalks and the such lol, or at least so I’m told. High crime rate as well although South Bend has its fair share too.
                                                  "Lol"? Since when are the homeless funny?

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                                                  • Originally posted by Irish2155 View Post

                                                    Yeah, and you all also have homeless folks shitting all over sidewalks and the such lol, or at least so I’m told. High crime rate as well although South Bend has its fair share too.
                                                    Definitely. LA has its fair share of problems. However, from a recruiting standpoint, I imagine most recruits see the pros of LA outweighing the negatives.

                                                    Side note: UCLA is in a much nicer area of LA than USC. 15 minutes from the beach (as opposed to 45 mins to an hour or more for USC). Better temperatures. Cleaner air. Homelessness isn't quite as rampant as it is by USC. Always surprises me that UCLA can't recruit better than it does.

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                                                    • Is there any legit legs to the Williams to USC story? Everyone knows recruiting doesn't stop and I wouldn't expect anyone to lay off of a top 100 recruit.

                                                      But is he visiting or anything of substance?

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                                                      • Originally posted by HereComesTheManor View Post

                                                        Definitely. LA has its fair share of problems. However, from a recruiting standpoint, I imagine most recruits see the pros of LA outweighing the negatives.

                                                        Side note: UCLA is in a much nicer area of LA than USC. 15 minutes from the beach (as opposed to 45 mins to an hour or more for USC). Better temperatures. Cleaner air. Homelessness isn't quite as rampant as it is by USC. Always surprises me that UCLA can't recruit better than it does.
                                                        Gentlemen let me review a few facts about the era of Pete Carroll's hegemony of college football.

                                                        ST> LOUIS RAMS.

                                                        The Rams were near the Arch from '95-15. Out of sight out of mind.

                                                        The Chargers were in Southern California, but closer to Tijuana than LA.

                                                        OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND.

                                                        But then the teams migrated back, and built the most LA of all LA sports venues, SO FI.

                                                        Fabulous Forum?
                                                        Dodger Stadium in Chavez Ravine?
                                                        Staples Center

                                                        All very nice, all pushed the envelope all very LA,

                                                        But So fi is a whole 'nother tray of sushi
                                                        .
                                                        And then Goff and Stafford and the LAish McVAy and Herbert and Staley stole the fickle hearts and minds of LA sports fans while the Trojans were pretending that southern dumbass Clay Helton was a leader of men. Helton is the new Messiah of Georgia Southern located below the gnat line in Statesboro where they think people from norther cities like Macon are "Yankees"

                                                        To paraphrase Vegas' motto "What wound up in Statesboro, should never been in Heritage Hall."

                                                        It's different now. The Rams and Chargers have filled the Trojan vacuum, all nice and ;pretty in Sofi.

                                                        It's a long road back for Troy.

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                                                        • Originally posted by Rizzophil View Post
                                                          Is there any legit legs to the Williams to USC story? Everyone knows recruiting doesn't stop and I wouldn't expect anyone to lay off of a top 100 recruit.

                                                          But is he visiting or anything of substance?
                                                          Unless he was taken out of context, I’d say he’s realizing how far South Bend is the closer he gets to signing day. If he’s not pumped about going to an elite academic school w/ a highly successful program that is in the CFP discussion despite a rebuilding year, then what else can one really do? Maybe someone has his ear about ND not having an elite passer behind center. I’m sure he was offered by Bama as well. I also assume he knows he’d be just another 4/5-star WR competing for every snap he can get vs ND where he likely makes an impact Day One.

                                                          Time will tell but if he flips to SC I can’t imagine him having much more success than Drake London, Amon-Ra St Brown or Michael Pittman. They had nice careers but their respective teams were rarely in the national conversation and they had very minimal success vs ND.

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                                                          • Originally posted by Irishize View Post
                                                            If he’s not pumped about going to an elite academic school w/ a highly successful program that is in the CFP discussion despite a rebuilding year, then what else can one really do?
                                                            Hire a better recruiter and position coach?

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                                                            • I'm more anxious about BK and the in home visit next week then I am the Stanford game.

                                                              Fingers crossed BK in person seals the deal.

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                                                              • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post
                                                                Hire a better recruiter and position coach?
                                                                What WR coach could ND hire to beat Hartline for a kid who openly admitted OSU is his dream school?

                                                                Bama, Clemson and everyone else is having the same problem. He's so good, his cast off is leading the SEC in receiving.

                                                                ND's doing the right thing here with Tommy taking the lead, trying to play the Chicago angle but... it's a Cubs fan recruiting a Sox fan so it will never work.

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                                                                • Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post

                                                                  What WR coach could ND hire to beat Hartline for a kid who openly admitted OSU is his dream school?

                                                                  Bama, Clemson and everyone else is having the same problem. He's so good, his cast off is leading the SEC in receiving.

                                                                  ND's doing the right thing here with Tommy taking the lead, trying to play the Chicago angle but... it's a Cubs fan recruiting a Sox fan so it will never work.
                                                                  My bad, I'm referring to Walker and Williams who are both admittedly trending away, Walker for some time now. No?

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                                                                  • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post
                                                                    My bad, I'm referring to Walker and Williams who are both admittedly trending away, Walker for some time now. No?
                                                                    Sorry, thought I was in Tate's thread.

                                                                    There's question marks with both but you're in print saying they will not sign with ND and you can't know that right now. Now one does.

                                                                    I don't know if either are trending away? Walker's been in this uncommitted state forever. And who knows where CJ's head's been the entire process? He may have saved his spot and been shopping the entire time?

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                                                                    • Would be a great time to break Del’s 3 per class rule especially after witnessing our WR literally become stretched as thin as possible. I’m surprised there aren’t any names out there that we’re circling back to at this point.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post



                                                                        Hire a better recruiter and position coach?
                                                                        I'd love for us to poach Marion from Pitt. Dude does pretty well
                                                                        Love You JB 64.....RIP.....AI720....4EVER

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                                                                        • Is Del coming back next year? What do you guys think?

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                                                                          • Originally posted by irishandy View Post

                                                                            I have a feeling if they hire a big name coach like Franklin their chances of poaching get better.
                                                                            "Big name" coach who has never won a big game. I want SC to hire Franklin. Being good six days a week and crap on Saturday is just what SC needs.

                                                                            Honestly, Williams visiting a school that currently has no coach and has been dysfunctional for many years out of concern about ND's offense seems rather interesting to me.
                                                                            It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                                            • Originally posted by ThePiombino View Post



                                                                              Hire a better recruiter and position coach?
                                                                              Overall? Yes, probably a solution. For this particular kid? No, if (and it’s all speculation at this point) truly doesn’t want to be at ND, no WR Coach is going to change his mind. The recruiter & the fanbase can’t want it more than the actual kid who has to live w/ the decision.

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                                                                              • Originally posted by Irishize View Post

                                                                                Overall? Yes, probably a solution. For this particular kid? No, if (and it’s all speculation at this point) truly doesn’t want to be at ND, no WR Coach is going to change his mind. The recruiter & the fanbase can’t want it more than the actual kid who has to live w/ the decision.
                                                                                I dunno, maybe if we had a position coach worth his salt he would be able to establish a better relationship with this kid. Maybe then Notre Dame wouldn't seem so far away...

                                                                                I'm sorry, maybe it's not fair, but I will never forget the fact that Colzie didn't even know his position coaches name when he first decommitted last year.

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                                                                                • When I look at the big powers over the years, they have the big gun behind center for sure, but they also have explosive playmakers at the WR position. Ohio State had a guy transfer out to Alabama and he's Alabama's guy this year. WR is as important as QB and LT now.

                                                                                  It feels, from our point of view, like a change needs to be made but Alexander has been here for five seasons. That's evidence of some sort of comfort level between him and employer.

                                                                                  Marion from Pitt would be a great hire, but he's also a future OC and HC in the making according to most, so for any ND fans that just expect him to stay you're likely going to be disappointed because he's likely not content with being a WR coach forever. There are other fish in that pond like Trey Holtz and Nathan Scheelhaase. You wish for Brian Hartline and piss in the other, then see which one fills up first.
                                                                                  It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                                                  • Del is an interesting position coach to judge. results arent fantastic in total or in general "feel" but certainly not terrible.

                                                                                    "As it stands" were looking at maybe having back to back best two wr classes of Kelly's tenure.

                                                                                    The development of Chase Claypool, Javon McKinley and Miles Boykin into NFL draft picks all occurred under his watch iirc. Avery Davis seemed like he was on an ascent into NFL draft pick too. Where does Ben Skowronek fall into this. He had some solid years at NW pre-ND but might have had his best season here as well.

                                                                                    Del likely maximized some of our receiver groups but was also likely the culprit in the need to maximize poorer talented groups.

                                                                                    Certainly couldn't blame Kelly if he felt there was a better coach out there as it is part of his job to put the best coaching staff available together.

                                                                                    If he stays another year it is likely because he holds current group of commits together. (who knows how likely with current state)

                                                                                    The coaching carousel is just getting started so the list of names that could be options will be interesting.

                                                                                    However, I do think Del will be moving on after this year.
                                                                                    Prehistoric

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post

                                                                                      "Big name" coach who has never won a big game. I want SC to hire Franklin. Being good six days a week and crap on Saturday is just what SC needs.

                                                                                      Honestly, Williams visiting a school that currently has no coach and has been dysfunctional for many years out of concern about ND's offense seems rather interesting to me.

                                                                                      Check your hole card here. Be extremely judicious about getting what you ask for.

                                                                                      Do you remember the weeping and gnashing of teeth from Trojan fat cats when they hired Pete Carroll? He had a lackluster NFL coaching career. What happened next?

                                                                                      Speaking of Trojan fatcats, I would be remiss in not noting that some are so arrogant that they funded this:

                                                                                      https://housing.usc.edu/index.php/bu...ge-building-9/

                                                                                      There is a saying about having "bleep you" money and the next level up which is "Bleep EVERYBODY" Money

                                                                                      The guy that funded the Cowlings building had the later.

                                                                                      Hmm, let me check my crypto account

                                                                                      The only way to one up the Al Cowlings building would be to build the

                                                                                      "Jerry Dominiack/Kim Dunbar Accounting Center"

                                                                                      on ND's campus.

                                                                                      that would draw a few flies........."

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                                                                                      • I'm assuming we offered USCs QB in hopes of getting him to secure CJ?

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by FightingIrishLover7 View Post
                                                                                          I'm assuming we offered USCs QB in hopes of getting him to secure CJ?
                                                                                          Not exactly "on brand" for ND, but I get what you're saying here.

                                                                                          The post before yours....that I don't get. At all.
                                                                                          It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by FightingIrishLover7 View Post
                                                                                            I'm assuming we offered USCs QB in hopes of getting him to secure CJ?
                                                                                            that may be a by product if he were to flip to ND but I would imagine this is more just about upgrading the position period.
                                                                                            Prehistoric

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                                                                                              • Biggins story has some direct quotes from C. J. so everybody should check it out and try to read the tea leaves. My takeaway is he's naive (like most kids his age) in buying the pitch the the SC guys recruiting him are going to be on the new coaches staff. They have no freaking way of knowing that at point. I would have to think that Williams might but Keary Colbert?

                                                                                                The average number of coaches retained in an external "big boy" hire is about 1.5. The new guy is going to bring in "his guys" ; he's a fool not to.

                                                                                                I suppose SC could do some bullshit delayed hire move here. But the transfer portal is karma these days. He's naive, but he'll learn quick if they lie to him.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by ab2cmiller View Post
                                                                                                  Bruh, nuh.
                                                                                                  It's Just a Ride.

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                                                                                                  • Would be great if our star WR commit was recruiting SC's QB commit and not the other way around.

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                                                                                                    • I'd say a good indicator of washout is being partially committed before signing day. The fact that NDs program stability isn't a strong deciding factor for CJ (or so it would appear) is really all I need to know. He could've come in and gotten early snaps and been on a winning football team but he wants to check out USC/UCLA to be closer to home.

                                                                                                      I'd put a 25% chance he signs with the Irish. No insider info, no paid subscriptions.

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