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2020-2021 Notre Dameís Menís Basketball

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  • Props to people who still watch. I'm pretty much done until they move on from Brey. Called for it years ago then he went and made a couple elite eights to make me look dumb. Now we are worse off than we were before that run.

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    • 35.7% FG
      16.7% 3pt
      57.1% FT

      Triple ouch...
      The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
      Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

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      • This team is like watching John Macleod teams.

        After this year, Brey will have double digit conference losses in 5 out of the 8 years in the ACC. During his 13 seasons as coach in the BE, he only had 2 such seasons.

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        • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
          This team is like watching John Macleod teams.

          After this year, Brey will have double digit conference losses in 5 out of the 8 years in the ACC. During his 13 seasons as coach in the BE, he only had 2 such seasons.
          Not saying Brey is great (or horrible), but he has 20 win seasons in 5 of 8 ACC seasons. Not sure how that ranks with other ACC teams not named Duke, Louisville, and NC, but guessing it's not horrible. I've never had high expectations of ND BB. ND isn't a BB school, and has to deal with same barriers the FB team struggles with.
          The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
          Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
            Not saying Brey is great (or horrible), but he has 20 win seasons in 5 of 8 ACC seasons. Not sure how that ranks with other ACC teams not named Duke, Louisville, and NC, but guessing it's not horrible. I've never had high expectations of ND BB. ND isn't a BB school, and has to deal with same barriers the FB team struggles with.
            Whether it's at Brey direction or not, ND usually has a notable weak non-conference slate (except for this year). Take last year as an example...the non-conference wins came against Robert Morris, Howard, Marshall, Presbyterian, Toledo, Farleigh Dickerson, Detroit Mercy, UCLA & Alabama A&M. So one win against a major conference team in UCLA.

            I think the issue with Brey is that the Elite 8's showed what the program can be. He certainly had down years before, but it feels like the down is hitting lower depths or staying below water level for too long. If this team were full of freshman, I think we could give a pass. But the stuff that plagued the team three years is still an issue. Just seems like we are treading water and there is a waterfall on the horizon thanks to recruiting.

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            • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
              Whether it's at Brey direction or not, ND usually has a notable weak non-conference slate (except for this year). Take last year as an example...the non-conference wins came against Robert Morris, Howard, Marshall, Presbyterian, Toledo, Farleigh Dickerson, Detroit Mercy, UCLA & Alabama A&M. So one win against a major conference team in UCLA.

              I think the issue with Brey is that the Elite 8's showed what the program can be. He certainly had down years before, but it feels like the down is hitting lower depths or staying below water level for too long. If this team were full of freshman, I think we could give a pass. But the stuff that plagued the team three years is still an issue. Just seems like we are treading water and there is a waterfall on the horizon thanks to recruiting.
              I don't disagree, but my expectations are different. I don't see EEs as a norm, as attainable. I think it's a blue moon (once a decade) type of thing when we get the right recruits.

              I'm not saying Brey is great. Honestly I'd prefer a gamble on a young and energetic up and comer who might strike gold with some recruits. IIRC, we've only had one top 25 recruiting class in the last 5 years. Maybe only one or two top 50s (ouch). And it was only 15ish. If you can't string together 2-3 top 25 classes, your chances of making a dent just isn't that good. IMO, it's more Brey's lack of recruiting, than coaching. And our brand as a BB team just isn't a good one.
              The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
              Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                I don't disagree, but my expectations are different. I don't see EEs as a norm, as attainable. I think it's a blue moon (once a decade) type of thing when we get the right recruits.

                I'm not saying Brey is great. Honestly I'd prefer a gamble on a young and energetic up and comer who might strike gold with some recruits. IIRC, we've only had one top 25 recruiting class in the last 5 years. Maybe only one or two top 50s (ouch). And it was only 15ish. If you can't string together 2-3 top 25 classes, your chances of making a dent just isn't that good. IMO, it's more Brey's lack of recruiting, than coaching. And our brand as a BB team just isn't a good one.
                Yea, to be clear, I don't think EE's should be the norm. ND isn't Kansas or Duke. But there is no reason that ND shouldn't make quasi regular appearances in the S16 (1 every 3 years or so) and or finish in the top 6 in the ACC. That's essentially what Brey was doing, with the exception of the last few years.

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                • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                  Whether it's at Brey direction or not, ND usually has a notable weak non-conference slate (except for this year). Take last year as an example...the non-conference wins came against Robert Morris, Howard, Marshall, Presbyterian, Toledo, Farleigh Dickerson, Detroit Mercy, UCLA & Alabama A&M. So one win against a major conference team in UCLA.

                  I think the issue with Brey is that the Elite 8's showed what the program can be. He certainly had down years before, but it feels like the down is hitting lower depths or staying below water level for too long. If this team were full of freshman, I think we could give a pass. But the stuff that plagued the team three years is still an issue. Just seems like we are treading water and there is a waterfall on the horizon thanks to recruiting.
                  I've never understood why Swarbrick can't make Notre Dame basketball a more national brand. Why don't we play USC or UCLA annually in Los Angeles? Can't we schedule Michigan? Do we take advantage of Chicago being down the road? ND should be playing in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York every year IMO.

                  Basketball and especially basketball recruiting is a different world than football, but I've just never been able to understand why Notre Dame doesn't do more.

                  The thing with Brey is the same thing with any coach. Some times the magic runs out and you need to respectfully hit the reset button to get rejuvenation. Brey should take a buyout after the season and allow the program to move on.

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                  • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                    Yea, to be clear, I don't think EE's should be the norm. ND isn't Kansas or Duke. But there is no reason that ND shouldn't make quasi regular appearances in the S16 (1 every 3 years or so) and or finish in the top 6 in the ACC. That's essentially what Brey was doing, with the exception of the last few years.
                    To be quasi regular S16, you still need to be a regular in the top 25 recruiting. Our current problem....

                    2020 - 77th
                    2019 - UR (top 100)
                    2018 - 15th
                    2017 - UR
                    2016 - 40th
                    The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                    Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                      To be quasi regular S16, you still need to be a regular in the top 25 recruiting. Our current problem....

                      2020 - 77th
                      2019 - UR (top 100)
                      2018 - 15th
                      2017 - UR
                      2016 - 40th
                      Oh yea, no doubt about that. Recruiting has always been a struggle though for Brey. It was either local(ish) recruits or those from EC. I never understood it either, as his personality, coaching style and offense are all ultra player friendly. I think it's just effort. Like you said, nobody is expecting or asking for 2 5*'s a year. Just have consistent, higher level guys and we would be in good shape. The junior class was supposed to be that, but it isn't working. But the problem is that it's literally the junior class and nothing else. Lazy.

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                      • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                        Oh yea, no doubt about that. Recruiting has always been a struggle though for Brey. It was either local(ish) recruits or those from EC. I never understood it either, as his personality, coaching style and offense are all ultra player friendly. I think it's just effort. Like you said, nobody is expecting or asking for 2 5*'s a year. Just have consistent, higher level guys and we would be in good shape. The junior class was supposed to be that, but it isn't working. But the problem is that it's literally the junior class and nothing else. Lazy.
                        Agree. He's shown he can coach. It comes down to Brey's recruiting or lack of. BB is such an easier fix than FB. It only takes a couple of the better kids to make a team a winner and top 25 program.

                        Swarbrick should have replaced Brey about three years ago.

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                        • Brey is capable of being a good coach, but he doesn't care anymore. He hasn't cared since the elite eight runs. There is no reason to believe he will ever care. I'm sure he could get a job with ESPN or whoever easily if he just steps down. Win Win.

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                          • Originally posted by gkIrish View Post
                            Brey is capable of being a good coach, but he doesn't care anymore. He hasn't cared since the elite eight runs. There is no reason to believe he will ever care. I'm sure he could get a job with ESPN or whoever easily if he just steps down. Win Win.
                            Agreed. Breys coaching really made up for his recruiting for most of his career. But since he lost Colson and Farrell, it sure seems like his coaching is way down too. The team doesnít play the same as they used to. I think itís time to move on after this season.
                            Love Thee Notre Dame!

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                            • Until recently, idk why any top 100 recruit would even consider ND. Have you seen their basketball facilities? Probably the worst of any major conference. Sure they've improved, but that was only recently. That combined with Brey being a bad recruiter are not a good formula.

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                              • My problem isn't the recruiting. Sans 1 year, maybe 2, it's always been awful.

                                It's the player development.

                                Cooley's class was ranked 294 (that can't be right, can it?) on 247.

                                Grant and Pat C's classes were near 50 nationally.

                                Even Auguste's class, with 4-star Cam Biedscheid and Austin Burgett, was just 30th.

                                But, out of all of those classes, you'd count on player development. You develop a guy or two in each class, and by the time they are seniors, you have a functional team of experienced players.

                                This Junior class, in my opinion outside of Laz, is nearly the same they were as freshman, marginally better. And even Laz, at 6'10, was being bullied by a small guard against VT in the post (HE TOOK 5 FREAKING SHOTS).

                                It's not our recruiting that gets me. Whatever. But since Ingelsby left, we haven't had anyone, especially our guards, develop.

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                                • Who was this team? Lol

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                                  • Originally posted by anarin View Post
                                    Who was this team? Lol
                                    I agree, the most complete game of the season, if they could only play like that every game...they'd be pretty good.

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                                    • Not that Wake Forest is great, but we're up 74-47 on them right now...


                                      I just turned it on, but it looks like we were only up 35-32 at half. We've outscored them 39-15 in the second half with four minutes to go.
                                      "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                      • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post
                                        Not that Wake Forest is great, but we're up 74-47 on them right now...


                                        I just turned it on, but it looks like we were only up 35-32 at half. We've outscored them 39-15 in the second half with four minutes to go.
                                        Well poop. Just got back from getting drinks for the game. Although, it will be easier to watch the replay knowing we won.

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                                        • Great game in all aspects. We will see if they can keep it up. The schedule gets easier then it was first half so we have a chance to have a good record

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                                          • Ryan has changed, seemingly overnight, from being a major liability to a major asset. No idea what happened but he's all of a sudden playing up to his recruiting rankings.

                                            Hubb came out cold and it didn't matter because Ryan picked up the slack.

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                                            • Watched the game last night, and it is in fact more enjoyable to watch the replay of a game you know you're going to win.

                                              1.) It's amazing how much better a player looks (Ryan) when he's hitting shots. I think the type of shots he's getting are a big part of that as well. Instead of forces with a guy in his grill, he's getting some much more uncontested looks. Some of this has to do with the competition, but some of it is just running the offense better. At one point, he ran towards a stagger screen, stopped, went back out the opposite side to another screen where his defender went over the top, and just flattened to the corner for a wide open 3.

                                              2.) Hubb still take some awful shots, but you can tell he's really trying to be better distributing the ball (to the point he's forcing the action a bit in some cases, but I'm completely cool with that).

                                              3.) Laz has got to get better in the post. Teams have realized how to play him when he's the single big on the court. Just switch. He is straight awful establishing post position, even when he has 20 pounds a 10 inches on a guy.

                                              4.) I know this may sound blasphemous, and I've always been higher on Djogo than most, but if yesterday was what we always got from him, I'd try to talk him into staying another year. We don't have any real good options at the 4, and when we "downshift", he's our best option (unless Brey is grooming Sanders for that role next year).

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                                              • Originally posted by Woneone View Post
                                                Watched the game last night, and it is in fact more enjoyable to watch the replay of a game you know you're going to win.

                                                1.) It's amazing how much better a player looks (Ryan) when he's hitting shots. I think the type of shots he's getting are a big part of that as well. Instead of forces with a guy in his grill, he's getting some much more uncontested looks. Some of this has to do with the competition, but some of it is just running the offense better. At one point, he ran towards a stagger screen, stopped, went back out the opposite side to another screen where his defender went over the top, and just flattened to the corner for a wide open 3.

                                                2.) Hubb still take some awful shots, but you can tell he's really trying to be better distributing the ball (to the point he's forcing the action a bit in some cases, but I'm completely cool with that).

                                                3.) Laz has got to get better in the post. Teams have realized how to play him when he's the single big on the court. Just switch. He is straight awful establishing post position, even when he has 20 pounds a 10 inches on a guy.

                                                4.) I know this may sound blasphemous, and I've always been higher on Djogo than most, but if yesterday was what we always got from him, I'd try to talk him into staying another year. We don't have any real good options at the 4, and when we "downshift", he's our best option (unless Brey is grooming Sanders for that role next year).
                                                I hear what you're saying, but with the way Brey uses the bench, I worry that he may burry so of the young guns (that have a higher ceiling). If Djogo is cool riding the pine while providing the vet leadership in practice I'm super cool then.

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                                                • After watching last nights game I like the roll that ND is on.

                                                  Is Ryan starting or his coming off the bench? He has had more of a spark the past few games.

                                                  I like how Durham has been playing physical inside- I wish he would stay another year, but chances are that he won't.

                                                  Hubb has really improved his play on offense whether if he is scoring or passing the ball.

                                                  With the schedule getting easier and if the Irish can get some more W's it will be interesting to see what they can do to finish out the year.

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                                                  • Classic Brey - turn shit in to Shinola just in time to fall short of the tourney. Bet we end up slightly over 500 with a couple ACC tourney wins and then lose early in the NIT, if they are even playing it this year.

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                                                    • Originally posted by FightingIrishLover7 View Post
                                                      I hear what you're saying, but with the way Brey uses the bench, I worry that he may burry so of the young guns (that have a higher ceiling). If Djogo is cool riding the pine while providing the vet leadership in practice I'm super cool then.
                                                      Fair point. I was watching the pressers after the game about 2 hours after I posted this, and thought "Oh shit, is Robby Carmody still on the team?"".

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                                                      • I didn't get to watch us build the lead in the first half. However, from that point on (when we were up about 15) I will say this for GT, they made F'ing everything.

                                                        Like, everything. Good defense. Bad defense. Everything.

                                                        That said....

                                                        I like that good Hubb is there more than bad Hubb now. But, god damn it finish contested at the rim and quit turning the ball over. 10 assists. GREAT! 5 turnovers. BAD!
                                                        Jose Alverado - be him. A pest on the ball, and get open shots off of your post kicking it back out. Hubb is a below average defensive player now. He's not good. He's not bad, but he doesn't bring anything. To be the best team we can, he need to have 7 shots, 7 assists, and be a pest on defense.

                                                        Laz had a ton of rolls off of ball screens that Hubb hit. Plus a few flares. He's our best player, and should get AT LEAST 12 shots per game.

                                                        Ryan - welcome back to reality.

                                                        Wertz - See above.

                                                        Pissed this away, but GT had the best half, with contested shots, that they will have all year. We were bad on the offensive end for about a 5 minute stretch. We aren't good enough to beat that right now from a good team.

                                                        But, I'm starting to have a bit of hope.

                                                        Edit: GT today was a sweet 16 team. At their house, we gave the game away. Still mad, but we looked like an actual ACC team today.
                                                        Last edited by Woneone; 02-07-2021, 12:36 AM.

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                                                        • yeah, Tech was really good last night. It wasn't an aberration, tho. They're undefeated at home with some really good wins.
                                                          Team should not be discouraged by this one, we can still beat enough teams left on our schedule to get to .500. Which is a reasonable goal for a 6-10 team.

                                                          Brey ran out of time outs with 3 minutes left? Who'd have though that would happen? (sarcasm)

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                                                          • ND played their best half of the season (in the first) and the worst half of the season (in the second).

                                                            ND should've beat Tech last night.

                                                            I see why Cormac Ryan isn't starting. I want to see more of Wertz over Ryan.

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                                                            • Didn't get to start watching until 4 left in the first half. Although, did get a look at the stats.

                                                              Are we giving Duke jumpers and they are just hitting them, or are they just torching us all over (can't really tell with ESPN gamecast)?

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                                                              • Nothing says playing at Duke than a TV shot of K saying a ref "They have 3 fouls" and the next possession we have 3 more called.

                                                                Edit: Had 3 when they showed the conversation with around 4 to go. Now have 8. Coincidence, obviously.

                                                                And Baker just hugs Ryan in the middle of the court, no call. Luckily he got a lay-up on a nice Hubb feed.
                                                                Last edited by Woneone; 02-09-2021, 05:15 PM.

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                                                                • So Cormac saving himself for Duke apparently. I need to turn this on, don't believe it.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Woneone View Post
                                                                    Nothing says playing at Duke than a TV shot of K saying a ref "They have 3 fouls" and the next possession we have 3 more called.

                                                                    Edit: Had 3 when they showed the conversation with around 4 to go. Now have 8. Coincidence, obviously.

                                                                    And Baker just hugs Ryan in the middle of the court, no call. Luckily he got a lay-up on a nice Hubb feed.
                                                                    Such a douche and the ACC officiating licks his balls so hard.

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                                                                    • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                                                                      Such a douche and the ACC officiating licks his balls so hard.
                                                                      Haha. Again, I didn't get to watch the first 14 minutes, but come on. Moore knocks Ryan back 3 feet on a drive and they just swallow the whistle.

                                                                      Maybe this is how the game was called early, but watching them blow the whistle the last 6 minutes doesn't exactly lend me to believe they are letting things go.

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                                                                      • You guys really shut shutdown IE right before ND finished beating Duke at Cameron?

                                                                        My heart aches...

                                                                        Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

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                                                                        • Originally posted by FightingIrishLover7 View Post
                                                                          You guys really shut shutdown IE right before ND finished beating Duke at Cameron?

                                                                          My heart aches...

                                                                          Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

                                                                          It went off the server a little quicker than I think we planned.


                                                                          Trust me, I was trying to get here to post about the great win myself.


                                                                          I think Duke has to officially call Cormac Ryan "daddy" now.
                                                                          "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                                                          • If someone would have told me pre-covid we were going to win at UK and Duke on the road, I would have been expecting a much different season... Lol

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                                                                            • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post


                                                                              It went off the server a little quicker than I think we planned.


                                                                              Trust me, I was trying to get here to post about the great win myself.


                                                                              I think Duke has to officially call Cormac Ryan "daddy" now.
                                                                              Making Duke Cormac's only child. I am very happy he had it in him.


                                                                              However, Duke will ALWAYS be Bonzi's little bitch. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...1-16-duke.html
                                                                              Last edited by RDU Irish; 02-17-2021, 05:55 PM.

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                                                                              • Great first half of offense followed by a compete head scratcher of a second half. Syracuse turned up the pressure defensively and ND didn't handle it well at all. Disappointing loss with how they've been playing as of late.

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                                                                                • Absolutely embarrassing. Don’t know if there’s any words for the disappointment

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                                                                                  • Not surprising to see us collapse. Its not like it hasn't happened before. This team just crumbles when anyone who is any good makes a run at them. No on court leadership, just Hubb who is not as good as he thinks he is. Or as good as Brey thinks he is as there is just no plan B when Hubb sucks.

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                                                                                    • I am lost for words after watching today's game. Something needs to change for ND's basketball program.

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                                                                                      • Catching up on the board, haven't been on much since the changes.

                                                                                        The meltdown on Saturday was one of the lowest points, if not the lowest, in Brey's career. We finally got the sense that he is turning this team around heading into ACC Tourney time, similarly to last year, and you have a 20 point lead and blow it.

                                                                                        This Junior class is his highest rated recruiting class in his career (to my knowledge; at the very least I know it's way up there) and simply put he results have been extremely lackluster with a pretty talented group. Throw in the recent recruiting woes since then, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that it's time to move on from Brey.

                                                                                        No doubt his tenure is greatly appreciated and he did great things for this program but since his back to back Elite 8, it's been one of the worst programs in the ACC.
                                                                                        My two favorite football teams: Notre Dame, and whoever's playing Michigan.

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                                                                                        • On paper, I'm really excited about the prospects of this roster minus Durham plus Yale GS, Wertz, Wesley, and JR. However, I'm really not interested in Brey coaching them. Would the roster and new additions stick if we moved on to a new coach? That would be ideal but if that's not an option then it becomes how much roster TO is acceptable while moving on to a new coach? And, who is that new coach? If they went out and got a really good coach and kept it altogether, I could get really excited about next years team. Like ACC contender excited. That's how good I think that group of talent can be.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by Luckylucci View Post
                                                                                            On paper, I'm really excited about the prospects of this roster minus Durham plus Yale GS, Wertz, Wesley, and JR. However, I'm really not interested in Brey coaching them. Would the roster and new additions stick if we moved on to a new coach? That would be ideal but if that's not an option then it becomes how much roster TO is acceptable while moving on to a new coach? And, who is that new coach? If they went out and got a really good coach and kept it altogether, I could get really excited about next years team. Like ACC contender excited. That's how good I think that group of talent can be.
                                                                                            I don't think Ohio State regrets moving on from Thad Matta. Notre Dame shouldn't hesitate to move on from Mike Brey. Roster turnover is temporary pain.

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                                                                                            • The most frustrating aspect of this team is where it should be, compared to where it seems to be going.

                                                                                              1.) Don't get up a 17 point lead to GT
                                                                                              2.) Don't give up a 17 point lead to Syracuse
                                                                                              3.) Don't get beat on a last second shot vs UNC
                                                                                              4.) "Maybe" close out OSU at home.

                                                                                              If you do those top 3 (which I believe are all Quad 1), We're probably on the right side of the bubble right now, or really close, and the feel of the season is completely different.

                                                                                              But, as I've mentioned multiple times, you will not be a really good team if Goodwin and Hubb are continuously leading your team in shots taken. I noticed people like Tom Noie didn't tweet out Hubbs fingerprints on the last 9 minutes like he did Duke. Looking at the play by play, I see 3 missed shots, 2 turnovers. No points or assists. Since his freshman year, I've said his shot mechanics will not allow him to be a consistent shooter. Goodwin isn't athletic enough to get his own shot. He's similar to Vasturia in that regard. The problem is that he can't play off others like Steve did.

                                                                                              Nate getting 7 shots (lowest among starters) against a team playing a 2-3 zone where we straight ran over them in the first half by dumping it to the paint is an absolute joke. Or, we have players that just don't understand how to play team basketball, or perhaps don't want to realize the type of players they actually are.

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                                                                                              • I ask this question in all seriousness, is there a single team in the ACC that would trade their starting guards for ours? Probably Wake Forest (actually I'm pretty sure of it).

                                                                                                Other than that?

                                                                                                Edit: And Carlik Jones is guarding Laz. That's embarrassing. That's a player not knowing how to play at 6'10, and coaches not knowing how to teach him.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by Woneone View Post
                                                                                                  I ask this question in all seriousness, is there a single team in the ACC that would trade their starting guards for ours? Probably Wake Forest (actually I'm pretty sure of it).

                                                                                                  Other than that?

                                                                                                  Edit: And Carlik Jones is guarding Laz. That's embarrassing. That's a player not knowing how to play at 6'10, and coaches not knowing how to teach him.
                                                                                                  In all seriousness we suck.

                                                                                                  Next year is gonna be our oldest team ever. Will be intersting to see if brey will still be here but his contract is through 2025 so I don’t see jack getting rid of him next year I just don’t see it as much as all of us want it to happen. If he can’t get this team to be in the tourney next year then it will be a colossal disappointment

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                                                                                                  • As long as Brey is here, it's going to be wash, rinse and repeat. BBall isn't demanding like the FB program, so I don't expect a coaching change until Brey decides he's done.

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                                                                                                    • I am really happy I was busy and couldn't watch the game last night. Brey has got to go.

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