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2020-2021 Notre Dame’s Men’s Basketball

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  • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
    I'm excited. If the NCAA gives an extra year to everyone we may have over 10 on the roster for a change.
    I wonder who, if any, of the current Junior class would come back for a 5th year. None seem like obvious NBA guys. So, if they could get all those guys back for a 5th year along with Wesley getting into his Sophomore year, that might be it. That could be a really good shot at some post season magic.

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    • Jalen Johnson out for Duke Wednesday:

      ESPN Article

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      • <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">D-1 Council has passed the proposal in which all transfers are now eligible to play this season, per source.</p>&mdash; Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanHoops) <a href="https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1339332711077588997?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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        • First 4 games told us a lot... that we needed (at least) one more piece. We have that now. Let’s start ACC play on a positive note.

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          • What an embarrassing performance.

            Duke is shooting around 57% from the field, 58% from 3, because they are getting literally any shot they want. I think they've made their last 7 shots, all from inside the paint.

            Done watching for the night.
            Last edited by Woneone; 12-16-2020, 10:43 PM.

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            • Wertz hasn’t played all season and Duke is a tough first game, so I’ll give him a pass...but he was pretty awful tonight. He wasn’t the only one (pretty much everyone played bad except Goodwin), but I was certainly expecting more from him. Hopefully he’ll be better next game.
              The future of Fighting Irish football is looking bright!!!

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              • Originally posted by sportallyr View Post
                Wertz hasn’t played all season and Duke is a tough first game, so I’ll give him a pass...but he was pretty awful tonight. He wasn’t the only one (pretty much everyone played bad except Goodwin), but I was certainly expecting more from him. Hopefully he’ll be better next game.
                He get's a pass from me. First game, found out today your eligible. That's understandable. I know it's against Duke back-ups, but he got real aggressive at the end of the game.

                What's not ok is that Nate took 6 shots. He can't have 1 more shot than Durham. He can't be 5th on the team in shots taken.

                And that defensive effort. Wow.

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                • I don't know what you guys have been watching to think this is even a potential tourney team let alone Top 25 but that was hot garbage last night. Ryan looks like they pulled him off the Bookstore courts, has me wishing for more Djogo. Wertz at least had flashes and moves like a real basketball player - he will be playing 40 minutes per game before MLK day. Much better option to break down the defense off the dribble than Hubb.

                  Our offensive post play is just shy of comical. Durham has no feel down there whatsoever, Laz is improved but still bordering on more liability than asset in the paint offensively. All that size and virtually no presence.

                  Seriously - these guys are year three together and have no clue how to work together on either side of the court. Wertz/Hubb/Goodwin/Laz will have to be the core playing vast majority of minutes and I only see Zona and Durham as feasible fifth and sixth guys. Brey has played 6 deep plenty of times in the past, why not? Just ridiculous that he needs a transfer rule change to come close to fielding a competitive team.

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                  • Wertz needs to be able to finish, but he definitely adds the ability to drive the basket which we don't really possess with anyone else on the team.

                    Honestly the issue seemed to just be defense. I have faith that we can get good offense out of this group. Far too many quality shooters not to...though our passing ability seems lackluster compared to years past.

                    If we grow throughout the season, we can be pretty good. If we don't continue to grow and improve, yikes.
                    "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                    • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post
                      Wertz needs to be able to finish, but he definitely adds the ability to drive the basket which we don't really possess with anyone else on the team.

                      Honestly the issue seemed to just be defense. I have faith that we can get good offense out of this group. Far too many quality shooters not to...though our passing ability seems lackluster compared to years past.

                      If we grow throughout the season, we can be pretty good. If we don't continue to grow and improve, yikes.
                      Passing is sloppy AF. Ryan may be the worst. Year three in the system should be resembling more well oiled machine and less cluster fvck for Goodwin/Durham/Hubb/Laz. Ryan was supposedly practicing with them last year - wouldn't know it from the game and a half I have seen so far. Have yet to see any redeeming qualities in his game.

                      Granted only a couple of data points but Wertz finishing ability looks better than the rest of the team combined.

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                      • Ryan is supposed to be a great shooter but he shot a poor % in his one year at Stanford and his troubles appear to be continuing at ND.

                        He looks to me like the kind of player who will light up teams that are not good on D but the good defensive teams will mess him up; then he'll either disappear or try a bunch of low % shots.

                        Decent guy for 20 minutes, not someone who can be your alpha.

                        We've had a lot of those lately.

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                        • Hubb can be really, really awful.

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                          • Wertz is a better lead guard than Hubb, and I think Brey has realized it. Hubb played off the ball quite a bit that first half.

                            He's a type of athlete that no one else on the team can replicate.

                            Poor Laz. First game we've played real small ball, and I have to assume this is the largest front court we'll play (even bigger than UNC). Saw what type of player he could be with the drive around Eddy, and the kick to Wertz.
                            Last edited by Woneone; 12-19-2020, 03:28 PM.

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                            • FWIW Irish in action tonight vs UVA in a 6 PM start. Trailing 30-24 at the half Laz and Durham with 23 of ND's 24 points. Rest of the team is 0-10 from the field. ugh

                              Wertz with what looked like a bad ankle sprain late in the half. double ugh.

                              With Wertz out we'll have to lean on Hubb in the second half.

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                              • Originally posted by stpeteirish View Post
                                FWIW Irish in action tonight vs UVA in a 6 PM start. Trailing 30-24 at the half Laz and Durham with 23 of ND's 24 points. Rest of the team is 0-10 from the field. ugh

                                Wertz with what looked like a bad ankle sprain late in the half. double ugh.

                                With Wertz out we'll have to lean on Hubb in the second half.
                                Now with 34 of our points I think.

                                Our guards are just at the mercy of UVA. Ryan has been just terrible, but in all fairness, it's his first game against UVA.

                                Hubb just hit a nice runner, but has been awful outside a couple of nice passes to cutting bigs.

                                Goodwin can score against smaller guards. But with us playing small, you can just put the "mismatch" on him in a bigger player and shut him down.

                                Said it a bunch this year, but Laz is our best player, by a wide margin.

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                                • Originally posted by CTIDANDREW View Post
                                  Hubb is not a good player....and an awful point guard.

                                  It is confusing, because when you watch him move around out there you get the feeling he is a good a player....but when it comes down to decision making he is awful.

                                  Brey hitched his wagon to him, and based on recruiting rankings I cannot blame him...but man his tenure at point guard for this program has/is going to set us back for years.
                                  100% agree with this...Hubb just keeps underperforming. It's not so much skill wise, he can get his...every so often (but usually by over dribbling) But everything else, all the intangibles...big time lacking. He just irks me everytime I watch them!
                                  Last edited by UPMich_NDfan; 12-31-2020, 10:43 AM.
                                  "when your kids least deserve the love...is when they need it the most" Go Irish

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                                  • Really hope Brey considers retirement after this season.

                                    The program is in a bad place.

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                                    • ND loses a heartbreaker to UNC 66-65. Laz had another phenomenal game. Too bad.
                                      Love Thee Notre Dame!

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                                      • Looking at an 8-9 win season at this rate and with the remaining schedule. Pathetic really. Of course I guess that's what ya get when there are 3 MAYBE 4 ok players in the rotation.

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                                        • Didn't catch the game but checked out the box score - Laz 7-11 from 3 while rest of the team was 4 of 19..... now I am happy I was preoccupied and couldn't watch live. Cormac needs to go away - I would play Djogo over him at this point. Scary thing is Brey was expecting Wertz to sit for a year so the current roster is what Brey expected to produce with this year, full year to prep and plan and scheme with these pieces and this is what we have.

                                          Now watch Brey get them playing decent by year end and talk about growth, adversity and adjustments - ITS THE SAME ROSTER WHY DON'T YOU FIGURE IT OUT BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS FOR ONCE!

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                                          • Brey has totally mailed it in. It's sad to see.

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                                            • The Administration should make it a REQUIREMENT that if Brey wants another year, he has to hire someone that knows freaking anything about defense.

                                              He's went 2-3 about 7 times in the first half against VT, and the Cone kid has about 5 3's on those possessions. You can tell he thinks that's the solution to guarding the kid, which is an absolute mystery on how bad we are defensively in zone.

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                                              • Originally posted by gkIrish View Post
                                                Brey has totally mailed it in. It's sad to see.
                                                He’s become Digger when Phelps was content in being a one & done in the NCAA Tourney towards the end of his career. Brey should change their jerseys to Notre ame b/c he’s never known what D looks like.

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                                                • First zone possession in the second half - VT 3.

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                                                  • Ryan can't shoot and Hubb is been awful. Just ignored a switch on Laz to try to take the big off the dribble, then couldn't finish. I'm just about done watching him. He hasn't improved, gotten worse defensively. And as I type this, he fouled a 3 point shooter.

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                                                    • Have to put Hubb in check and actually run a freaking offense. For every time Hubb makes a good play, he makes two or three absolute bonehead plays. His thinking he can hit anything at anytime and refusal to pass the ball unless he was forced to pick it up lead to offensive possessions that go absolutely nowhere.

                                                      Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk
                                                      "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                                      • Wish there was another option at point guard. Just another example of the point I’ve been making for years. Brey always overrates “his guys” and refuses to recruit over them leaving us with a roster thin in both numbers and talent.

                                                        So we play Hubb, and lose. Pretty painful going back and forth between ND and the Bears tonight.

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                                                        • I love Brey and what he did for the basketball program. But we need something new and fresh. I hope he has the dignity to step down. He would be a great guy on TV. Get rid of Dan Dakich.

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                                                          • So done with this crap. You shoot 2-19 in the second half and we are supposed to be veterans? Wtf is wrong with this team.

                                                            Ever since we lost ingelsby and Solomon we have been dreadful. Zero production.

                                                            I’ve always been a massive brey fan but something’s gotta give.

                                                            We haven’t beaten a ranked team since Maui invitational in 2017. That has to be our longest winless streak against top 25 team ever. To put it more in perspective everyone other then djogo hasn’t beaten a top 25 team. Just terrible.

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                                                            • Never thought we’d be in this position after the Elite 8 runs. He’s done a ton for the program, but if I’m Swarbrick I tell Brey 2021-2022 is his last year. Normally I’d say just let him retire after this year, but I think he’s earned the chance to go out with a strong senior class in his final year.

                                                              ^not sure if this would at all be possible for Swarbrick to pull off politically but it’s my ideal scenario

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                                                              • Brey will always have a prominent role at ND if he wants it. I’m sure they can find an appropriate role for him where he can make substantial money (not coaching money), although I doubt money is an issue with him. I’m sure he’s more than set for life.

                                                                TV is an option, but I never thought he was outstanding when I saw him. He was ok, but if it was a full time gig, he might become more polished.

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                                                                • Originally posted by irishfan View Post
                                                                  Never thought we’d be in this position after the Elite 8 runs. He’s done a ton for the program, but if I’m Swarbrick I tell Brey 2021-2022 is his last year. Normally I’d say just let him retire after this year, but I think he’s earned the chance to go out with a strong senior class in his final year.

                                                                  ^not sure if this would at all be possible for Swarbrick to pull off politically but it’s my ideal scenario
                                                                  He’d have to add some grad transfers to have a “strong senior class” at this point.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by irishfan View Post
                                                                    Never thought we’d be in this position after the Elite 8 runs. He’s done a ton for the program, but if I’m Swarbrick I tell Brey 2021-2022 is his last year. Normally I’d say just let him retire after this year, but I think he’s earned the chance to go out with a strong senior class in his final year.

                                                                    ^not sure if this would at all be possible for Swarbrick to pull off politically but it’s my ideal scenario
                                                                    I look at it a big opposite - you should be able to recruit a decent coach to that roster with a full year to bring in your guys that will have tons of minutes available as frosh/soph. Brey wins as if they are good he gets credit for a full cupboard, if they suck it can be blamed on system changes.

                                                                    The Inglesby/Solomon comment has legs - only other option is to bring in two strong assistants and let Brey be a figurehead but that seems like a waste of money. You would need to (or should) pay up for assistants in that situation while also paying decent coin to Brey - not an ND type move.

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                                                                    • I think it's definitely trending towards next year's being Brey's last by way of retirement. You can't force him out. He's been here for over 20 years. But he's definitely hung it up on the recruiting trail since 2018. 2019 with zero recruits, 2020 ranked 77th. 2021 with 2 recruits both from South Bend. You can't rely on transfers to be a consistently competent program at ND where it is unlikely they can even talk to 75% of transfers, grad transfers excluded.

                                                                      On one hand, a new coach after this year probably ensures that 2022-2023 isn't an absolute embarrassment. On the other hand, Brey has taken this program to major heights in a difficult era. He deserves one last ride with a good team. My main concern would be he doesn't choose next year to be it for him. 2022-2023 would be a disaster.

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                                                                      • Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post
                                                                        I think it's definitely trending towards next year's being Brey's last by way of retirement. You can't force him out. He's been here for over 20 years. But he's definitely hung it up on the recruiting trail since 2018. 2019 with zero recruits, 2020 ranked 77th. 2021 with 2 recruits both from South Bend. You can't rely on transfers to be a consistently competent program at ND where it is unlikely they can even talk to 75% of transfers, grad transfers excluded.

                                                                        On one hand, a new coach after this year probably ensures that 2022-2023 isn't an absolute embarrassment. On the other hand, Brey has taken this program to major heights in a difficult era. He deserves one last ride with a good team. My main concern would be he doesn't choose next year to be it for him. 2022-2023 would be a disaster.
                                                                        He doesn't "deserve" squat - a lot of evidence indicates Inglesby and Solomon deserve more than Brey. The kids he recruited deserve better.

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                                                                        • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                                                                          He doesn't "deserve" squat - a lot of evidence indicates Inglesby and Solomon deserve more than Brey. The kids he recruited deserve better.
                                                                          Yea...I don't get this he deserves BS. The kids in the program after next year deserve a program that will fight for their on the court success. One more year of this likely translates to 2 more years of shitty basketball.

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                                                                          • I should clarify. I don't think he deserves anything, but the team that he assembled SHOULD be pretty good next year, they don't lose anyone other than Durham which as is, is likely addition by subtraction, and they add the Ivy League player of the year. They will have a line up that features Nate and Atkinson as the bigs with Zona off the bench which will create a semi-competent rebounding team, with a solid rotation of guards of Wertz, Hubb, Goodwin, Ryan, Sanders, and Carmody if he ever gets healthy. Most those guys are gone after next... After that, the cupboards are pretty bare.

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                                                                            • Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post
                                                                              I should clarify. I don't think he deserves anything, but the team that he assembled SHOULD be pretty good next year, they don't lose anyone other than Durham which as is, is likely addition by subtraction, and they add the Ivy League player of the year. They will have a line up that features Nate and Atkinson as the bigs with Zona off the bench which will create a semi-competent rebounding team, with a solid rotation of guards of Wertz, Hubb, Goodwin, Ryan, Sanders, and Carmody if he ever gets healthy. Most those guys are gone after next... After that, the cupboards are pretty bare.
                                                                              I understand your point. For me, it's more that if he is going to sell out for one year, that's going to make the job that much harder for the next guy (and potentially to get who you want to be the next guy). I would rather give the next guy a good team to help recruit around if/when he shows improvement over this year.

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                                                                              • For those that like pain, us vs UVA is on.

                                                                                Hubb had another no pass, chucked 3 possession. Clark owns him.

                                                                                Our guards are garbage.

                                                                                UVA isn't going to let Laz beat them, and thank god Durham is playing well.
                                                                                Last edited by Woneone; 01-13-2021, 05:05 PM.

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                                                                                • To reference a post a couple years ago about this class....

                                                                                  Anyone enjoying the ride yet?

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                                                                                  • 0-10 from 3.

                                                                                    UVA is 6-12.

                                                                                    We're lucky to be down just 12.

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                                                                                    • FIRE BREY

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                                                                                      • Hubb had two straight buckets. Great.

                                                                                        Next possession, one screen, runner from behind the free throw line. No passes on the possession.

                                                                                        He's not a point guard.

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                                                                                        • Deleted
                                                                                          Last edited by stpeteirish; 01-13-2021, 06:02 PM.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by TP81989 View Post
                                                                                            FIRE BREY
                                                                                            What? That would deny him a chance to develop his highly touted class from three years ago.
                                                                                            And recruiting would suffer, since it’s time for his once every four years push.

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                                                                                            • meanwhile, in Notre Dame's Athletic Office......

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                                                                                              • Anyone think Brey steps down after this year?

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by irishandy View Post
                                                                                                  Anyone think Brey steps down after this year?
                                                                                                  Yes

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                                                                                                  • I don't think the team is near as bad as they play which makes me think it's definitely the coach. But, Brey has got me in the same position I'm sure the Admin is, next year does look awfully enticing with Atkins and Wesley joining this roster. What are the chances the new coach keeps that together? Can't answer that but hopefully they are trying because that's the million dollar question. But, then again, maybe it doesn't matter if they continue to underperform.

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                                                                                                    • I feel like brey has gotten lazy over the years with his gameplan. In the past i feel like with less talent they played a really great brand of team ball. Now they have these(overhyped) recruits from what was supposed to be the best class in a long time and they play a playground style of offense and the defense is just downright bad.

                                                                                                      Maybe its time for him to either find that passion to coach hard again or walk away...

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