Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Another Shooting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Another Shooting

    Seems like we need one running thread to cover new shootings.

    Texas Church Shooting

  • #2
    What the hell is wrong with people? You can sort of understand someone getting mad and shooting the person or people they're mad at, but to just randomly kill a bunch of innocent people? Small town Texas in church on a Sunday morning. Not many places in the country you could've felt much safer or less likely to be the victim of something like this.
    Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SonofOahu View Post
      Seems like we need one running thread to cover new shootings.

      Texas Church Shooting
      I think each shooting should have its own thread. One thread makes it feel like the old "Thoughts & Prayers" line.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by phork View Post
        I think each shooting should have its own thread. One thread makes it feel like the old "Thoughts & Prayers" line.

        I agree each tragedy warrants it own thread.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks USAF for turning loose a guy, after just a year in your jail, whom you wouldn't have because he cracked a kid's skull...and thanks again for failing to do the paperwork and filing it with the FBI. So not only was he a violent asshole turned loose...but his job prospects were shit for being dishonorably discharged...AAAAAAND he could still buy guns. Can't see anything going wrong there...

          I'm not a gun control advocate, but I am for...ya know...Federal Agencies doing the shit they are supposed to do, and preventing evil assholes from taking their training to the civilian "enemy"...Good Hell.
          One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #6


            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note5 using Tapatalk

            Comment


            • #7
              Bump. Current reporting says 14 wounded and "multiple" fatalities near Miami.

              Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

              Comment


              • #8
                Kyrie eleison

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                  Bump. Current reporting says 14 wounded and "multiple" fatalities near Miami.

                  Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
                  A school shooting apparently... Man, my heart just breaks, I can't imagine the pain of sending your kid to school and this randomly happening.
                  There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    17 dead. The shooter apparently pulled the fire alarm to have more of a target. I believe the news said the largest school in Florida with 3200 plus students.
                    Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "Math teacher Jim Gard says he believes the school administration had sent out an email warning teachers that Cruz had made threats against other teenagers in the past."

                      Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In the past few years I’ve done a 180 on guns. I think they should be completely banned in this country... with some exceptions probably for hunters where they have to pass rigorous screening including yearly mental health check ups to be allowed to possess fire arms.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just what type of gun was used and just how easy the access to it was is important.

                          What is more important, though, is that incidents such as this happen, and continue to happen.

                          Will this madness never end?

                          Certain constraints and effective enforcement of existing restrictions are certainly in order.

                          I cry far too often over events such as this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So more kids are dead? 19 school shootings so far this year.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                              In the past few years Iíve done a 180 on guns. I think they should be completely banned in this country... with some exceptions probably for hunters where they have to pass rigorous screening including yearly mental health check ups to be allowed to possess fire arms.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Something must be done. At this point I am fine with blaming the NRA for all these shootings and all the politicians who have taken their money.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Supply and Demand.

                                  Does demand drive the supply or the supply drive the demand?

                                  Do lower prices and volume sales command access?

                                  Do hunters with a taste for venison stew regularly use semi-automatic or "bump stock" weapons to mow down herds?
                                  Last edited by dshans; 02-14-2018, 09:51 PM. Reason: I'm getting old. My health is slipping. I claim the right to be cranky.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I'm NOT trying to make a point in regards to gun control. This is more about culture and values. When I was a kid, almost every guy I knew in HS carried a pocket knife and had easy access to guns (including pistols), yet the idea of any of us using those guns to shoot up a school or anyplace else was unthinkable, and I don't think it ever occurred to any of us to pull that knife out in a fistfight.

                                    Most of the mass shootings over the past several years seem to have less to do with access to guns than they do to some fundamental change in our culture or values or how people are raised. I find it hard to believe we have more mental health issues today than then - people are people and probably aren't any more prone to psychosis or personality disorders now than then. I think we had MORE access to weapons 30 or 40 years ago and less understanding of mental health issues or access to mental health care, yet far fewer instances of this sort of thing. What's causing this?
                                    Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I flipped to Fox News to see how they were discussing it and one of their ombudsmen said that we need to strengthen the family dynamic in America. The others sorta sat around and said "yes yes something must be done. We don't know what exactly, but something."

                                      I've got one big bold prediction: nothing will change.

                                      The NRA used to be a formidable force in Republican politics but post-Citizens United it is a behemoth. Unless Mueller takes the NRA down too, public sentiment towards common sense reform will continue to mean nothing to Congress. The NRA is essentially a rallying mechanism for rural Republican men, it's not about gun ownership or gun safety. Take a look at their recent commercial, what a joke.

                                      Last edited by Buster Bluth; 02-14-2018, 10:11 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                        Something must be done. At this point I am fine with blaming the NRA for all these shootings and all the politicians who have taken their money.
                                        "Something must be done" is a lovely sentiment but I still haven't seen the "something" that would make any difference whatsoever.

                                        Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                                          I flipped to Fox News to see how they were discussing it and one of their ombudsmen said that we need to strengthen the family dynamic in America. The others sorta sat around and said "yes yes something must be done. We don't know what exactly, but something."

                                          I've got one big bold prediction: nothing will change.

                                          The NRA used to be a formidable force in Republican politics but post-Citizens United it is a behemoth. Unless Mueller takes the NRA down too, public sentiment towards common sense reform will continue to mean nothing to Congress. The NRA is essentially a rallying mechanism for rural Republican men, it's not about gun ownership or gun safety. Take a look at their recent commercial, what a joke.

                                          Why shouldn't rural Republican men have their interests represented? Honestly, the way you talk about outside money in politics, we'd end up with nobody but the generationally wealthy who would run for national office.

                                          Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                            "Something must be done" is a lovely sentiment but I still haven't seen the "something" that would make any difference whatsoever.

                                            Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
                                            Of course you haven’t and you likely will refuse any sensible ideas anyway. Australia ridded itself of guns within a year with a ban and gun buyback program. No mass shootings in like two decades. That worked and worked well, quickly. But you will disagree because Libertarianism tells you so and I don’t care. There are many great ideas for gun control. I likewise wish they were almost totally restricted. Its not a sentiment. Its a heartfelt desire. I do what I can do. I write my reps every time a school/public shooting occurs. I don’t own a gun. Never have. I think guns are for weak people and far to powerful to be easily obtained.

                                            It will change if these sackless exscuses for congressman grow a pair and do the right thing. Not gonna happen though. This will pass with more thoughts and prayers and onto the next mass shooting in three days. More kids will die because of guns. Gun stocks will rise tomorrow. America has an access to gun problem.
                                            Last edited by Cackalacky; 02-14-2018, 10:53 PM.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                                              I'm NOT trying to make a point in regards to gun control. This is more about culture and values. When I was a kid, almost every guy I knew in HS carried a pocket knife and had easy access to guns (including pistols), yet the idea of any of us using those guns to shoot up a school or anyplace else was unthinkable, and I don't think it ever occurred to any of us to pull that knife out in a fistfight.

                                              Most of the mass shootings over the past several years seem to have less to do with access to guns than they do to some fundamental change in our culture or values or how people are raised. I find it hard to believe we have more mental health issues today than then - people are people and probably aren't any more prone to psychosis or personality disorders now than then. I think we had MORE access to weapons 30 or 40 years ago and less understanding of mental health issues or access to mental health care, yet far fewer instances of this sort of thing. What's causing this?
                                              This is an interesting point. My grandfather told me a story a long time ago about selling or buying (I forget) a shotgun on a school bus. I was like.... wtf you cannot be serious if someone whipped out a shotgun on a school bus today it would not be a normal day-to-day thing. In fact, it'd be national news. He said everyone carried knives at all times and never thought twice about it.

                                              There is data that backs up what you're saying, too. The frequency of school shootings and mass shootings have gone up like crazy recently. Basically since the mass-adoption of social media/Twitter starting in 2011.

                                              I think there are three issues:
                                              1) Our culture is fucked and beyond repair. People aren't raised right, community structures are warped, individualism is basically toxic, etc. I don't want to get long winded, but yeah that's my opinion.
                                              2) Mental health is not addressed adequately in this country. Over-medicating people who don't need it, not helping those that do. Back in the day wackos would be "committed" somewhere... not saying we should go back to that, just saying I truly believe there's a bigger issue than there used to be. Unstable people have their crazy views reinforced by being able to get on the internet and get validation from other crazy strangers. It used to be that if someone was crazy those around them were likely "normal"... and accordingly, they would reinforce "normal" traits and not validate the crazy. This suppressed dangerous, crazy impulses from coming out. With regard to this fucker... I'm sure he got on social media and had is rage fueled.
                                              3) It is way too easy for unstable people to get their hands on guns, period. It's always been easy to get your hands on guns, that hasn't changed. But it's a problem now, because of #1 and #2. You have guns in the hands of people in a culture that is basically complicit in this shit AND you have a serious mental health problem. So it's just a ticking time bomb that will keep going off until you address #3 OR #1 + #2.

                                              The crazy part? Mass shootings isn't even close to the a statistically significant portion of gun violence. Most gun violence occurs in high population density area by people that belong to the party that is ostensibly anti-gun. Gun violence is a complex fucking problem because we let it get out of hand over a period of decades while other countries took steps to curb it.
                                              Last edited by IrishLax; 02-16-2018, 08:06 AM.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                Of course you haven’t and you likely will refuse any sensible ideas anyway. Australia ridded itself of guns within a year with a ban and gun buyback program. No mass shootings in like two decades. That worked and worked well, quickly. But you will disagree because Libertarianism tells you so and I don’t care. There are many great ideas for gun control. I likewise wish they were almost totally restricted. Its not a sentiment. Its a heartfelt desire. I do what I can do. I write my reps every time a school/public shooting occurs. I don’t own a gun. Never have. I think guns are for weak people and far to powerful to be easily obtained.

                                                It will change if these sackless exscuses for congressman grow a pair and do the right thing. Not gonna happen though. This will pass with more thoughts and prayers and onto the next mass shooting in three days. More kids will die because of guns. Gun stocks will rise tomorrow. America has an access to gun problem.
                                                Wrong. Australia's homicide rate was already low and falling. The gun buyback had no statistical impact whatsoever. From a University of Melbourne study:



                                                I can't link because it's a PDF but search for Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi for the full study.

                                                A similar study on gun related suicide in Japan showed that lower gun ownership did lead to lower gun suicides, but that people were just offing themselves in different ways.

                                                Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
                                                Last edited by wizards8507; 02-14-2018, 11:13 PM.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                  Why shouldn't rural Republican men have their interests represented? Honestly, the way you talk about outside money in politics, we'd end up with nobody but the generationally wealthy who would run for national office.
                                                  Publicly funded elections gets us only the wealthy? I think it makes money a nonissue and gets us a level playing field.

                                                  Citizens United lets global corporations donate unlimited amounts of money into Political Action Committees. It doesn't have jack to do with an American's wishes.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26


                                                    Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #27
                                                      Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                                                      Publicly funded elections gets us only the wealthy? I think it makes money a nonissue and gets us a level playing field.

                                                      Citizens United lets global corporations donate unlimited amounts of money into Political Action Committees. It doesn't have jack to do with an American's wishes.
                                                      What do you think a "global corporation" is, chief?

                                                      Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                        This is an interesting point. My grandfather told me a story a long time ago about selling or buying (I forget) a shotgun on a school bus. I was like.... wtf you cannot be serious if someone whipped out a shotgun on a school bus today it would not be a normal day-to-day thing. In fact, it'd be national news. He said everyone carried knives at all times and never thought twice about it.

                                                        There is data that backs up what you're saying, too. The frequency of school shootings and mass shootings have gone up like crazy recently. Basically since the mass-adoption of social media/Twitter starting in 2011.

                                                        I think there are three issues:
                                                        1) Our culture is fucked and beyond repair. People aren't raised right, community structures are warped, individualism is basically toxic, etc. I don't want to get long winded, but yeah that's my opinion.
                                                        2) Mental health is not addressed adequately in this country. Over-medicating people who don't need it, not helping those that do. Back in the day wackos would be "committed" somewhere... not saying we should go back to that, just saying I truly believe there's a bigger issue than there used to be. Unstable people have their crazy views reinforced by being able to get on the internet and get validation from other crazy strangers. It used to be that if someone was crazy those around them were likely "normal"... and accordingly, they would reinforce "normal" traits and not validate the crazy. This suppressed dangerous, crazy impulses from coming out. With regard to this fucker... I'm sure he got on social media and had is rage fueled.
                                                        3) It is way too easy for unstable people to get their hands on guns, period. It's always been easy to get your hands on guns, that hasn't changed. But it's a problem now, because of #1 and #2. You have guns in the hands of people in a culture that is basically complicit in this shit AND you have a serious mental health problem. So it's just a ticking time bomb that will keep going off until you address #3 OR #1 + #2.

                                                        The crazy part? Mass shootings isn't even close to the a statistically significant portion of gun violence. Most gun violence occurs in high population density area by people that belong to the party that is ostensibly anti-gun. Gun violence is a complex fucking problem because we let it get out of hand over a period of decades while other countries took steps to curb it.
                                                        It’s hard to make fair points on the heels of a tragedy b/c emotions run high and all the facts haven’t come in. You, however; make some rational points here.

                                                        I have always been a big fan of Ronald Reagan but can admit he was far from perfect and that he made some decisions with which I disagree. One of those was discontinuing the funding of mental health centers. It put a lot of mentally unstable folks on the streets. If we can’t agree on gun control, what excuse is there to not fix the mental health issue?

                                                        Another thing I don’t understand is why is America always compared to some small Nordic country, Japan, the UK, Canada or Australia when it comes to healthcare & guns? Is there a country that can truly be an “apples to apples” comparison to the United States? Are those nations truly our equal in population, # of citizens dependent on the State, etc?
                                                        Last edited by IrishLax; 02-16-2018, 08:07 AM.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                          Wrong. Australia's homicide rate was already low and falling. The gun buyback had no statistical impact whatsoever. From a University of Melbourne study:



                                                          I can't link because it's a PDF but search for Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi for the full study.

                                                          A similar study on gun related suicide in Japan showed that lower gun ownership did lead to lower gun suicides, but that people were just offing themselves in different ways.

                                                          Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
                                                          Lol. That chart shows like a 70 percent decrease per capita. Compared to us the no country has as much gun violence. Of corse it’s low. They had 14 mass shootings in the decade before their law was enacted. They have not had any since IIRC. We have had 19 school shootings in 43 days. Its funny you say there was no statistical improvement. This paper says the exact opposite.

                                                          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKCN0XP0HG

                                                          http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf

                                                          They saw the biggest decrease in the areas with highest gun population and weakest laws. Ie the strengthening of laws plus removing guns from circulation did contribute to less gun deaths had the biggest effect in the areas with lax laws and hugest gun ownership.

                                                          Its a start, probably not idea here but American needs a gun enema. Pull the band aid off so to speak.
                                                          Last edited by Cackalacky; 02-14-2018, 11:41 PM.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Mental health is a huge issue here, but I think it all starts at home.

                                                            I coach youth football and I see it getting worse every year. Coaches can't look at a kid a certain way otherwise Mommy & Daddy get all up in his face. Parents are doing no favours for their kids by helicoptering around them to bail them out. Kids need to be able to fail and learn. Kids are not being prepared to handle the stress of everyday real life.

                                                            My oldest lost his mind because his phone number didn't port over to his new provider instantly. I slapped him around a bit and told him to relax. Can you imagine when the boss tells him "Ya Im going to need you to look over these papers this weekend, oh plans eh? Ya sorry about that"

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                              This is an interesting point. My grandfather told me a story a long time ago about selling or buying (I forget) a shotgun on a school bus. I was like.... wtf you cannot be serious if someone whipped out a shotgun on a school bus today it would not be a normal day-to-day thing. In fact, it'd be national news. He said everyone carried knives at all times and never thought twice about it.

                                                              There is data that backs up what you're saying, too. The frequency of school shootings and mass shootings have gone up like crazy recently. Basically since the mass-adoption of social media/Twitter starting in 2011.

                                                              I think there are three issues:
                                                              1) Our culture is fucked and beyond repair. People aren't raised right, community structures are warped, individualism is basically toxic, etc. I don't want to get long winded, but yeah that's my opinion.
                                                              2) Mental health is not addressed adequately in this country. Over-medicating people who don't need it, not helping those that do. Back in the day wackos would be "committed" somewhere... not saying we should go back to that, just saying I truly believe there's a bigger issue than there used to be. Unstable people have their crazy views reinforced by being able to get on the internet and get validation from other crazy strangers. It used to be that if someone was crazy those around them were likely "normal"... and accordingly, they would reinforce "normal" traits and not validate the crazy. This suppressed dangerous, crazy impulses from coming out. With regard to this fucker... I'm sure he got on social media and had is rage fueled.
                                                              3) It is way too easy for unstable people to get their hands on guns, period. It's always been easy to get your hands on guns, that hasn't changed. But it's a problem now, because of #1 and #2. You have guns in the hands of people in a culture that is basically complicit in this shit AND you have a serious mental health problem. So it's just a ticking time bomb that will keep going off until you address #3 OR #1 + #2.

                                                              The crazy part? Mass shootings isn't even close to the a statistically significant portion of gun violence. Most gun violence occurs in high population density area by people that belong to the party that is ostensibly anti-gun. Gun violence is a complex fucking problem because we let it get out of hand over a period of decades while other countries took steps to curb it.
                                                              I think you're definitely on to something here, Lax. Before social media and the Internet (and I'm not against either of them - it's just that there are some problems stemming from them), as you point out, there were more family, social and cultural pressures to "keep the loonies on the path" and steer them away from going over the edge. Today, they can find countless websites or social media groups who will feed their antisocial/sociopathic tendencies and validate & encourage them.
                                                              Last edited by IrishLax; 02-16-2018, 08:07 AM.
                                                              Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #32
                                                                Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                Of course you haven’t and you likely will refuse any sensible ideas anyway. Australia ridded itself of guns within a year with a ban and gun buyback program. No mass shootings in like two decades. That worked and worked well, quickly.
                                                                So the giant Australian wall kept Antarica's massive black gun market out??
                                                                Last edited by ACamp1900; 02-15-2018, 12:20 AM.
                                                                There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                                                                  I think you're definitely on to something here, Lax. Before social media and the Internet (and I'm not against either of them - it's just that there are some problems stemming from them), as you point out, there were more family, social and cultural pressures to "keep the loonies on the path" and steer them away from going over the edge. Today, they can find countless websites or social media groups who will feed their antisocial/sociopathic tendencies and validate & encourage them.
                                                                  And a president that will do the same.

                                                                  Nothing will come of this. We let 20+ small children get gunned down and did absolutely nothing. THAT was the day our national soul died.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Originally posted by SonofOahu View Post
                                                                    And a president that will do the same.

                                                                    Nothing will come of this. We let 20+ small children get gunned down and did absolutely nothing. THAT was the day our national soul died.
                                                                    I was hoping we could have a reasonable, non-partisan discussion about the actual causes of the shootings without resorting to "The idiots on the Right" and "The idiots on the Left" and the typical gun control/anti-gun control rhetoric. Nobody denies that guns are part of the problem, but as I pointed out above, guns were even more readily available a generation or more ago and we didn't have these types of incidents. Obviously, they aren't the entire problem, anymore than cars are the problem with drunk driving fatalities. Clearly there are social, mental health, cultural and other such issues contributing to it.

                                                                    As for doing absolutely nothing, the problem is that there's no clear answer as to WHAT should be done. Just doing "something" when it won't actually solve the problem is pointless. It makes people feel good about doing something, but doesn't actually solve anything.
                                                                    Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • #35
                                                                      FWIW - The Australians that I've talked with are proud of the changes they have made to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them, including the banning semi- and automatic weapons, beginning after the Port Arthur massacre in '96 with a buyback of over 600,000 weapons all of which were destroyed. They had a national dialogue envisioning changes that would move them forward as a society. The discussion and decisions brought a coalescence around responsible gun ownership, gun sales, gun registration, waiting periods. Usually these discussions have resulted in me being politely asked, "Why don't you in America make these changes?" Another gun buyback recently resulted in 50,000 illegal guns turned in.

                                                                      Prior to 1996, Australia had 13 mass (>5 victims) killings, which has dropped to zero in the years since. Between 1995 and 2006, gun-related homicides and suicides in the country dropped by 59 percent and 65 percent. Those numbers continue to drop. Aussies are fierce, independent and proud people, who feel they took the right path over twenty years ago that has made their society safer.

                                                                      In a recent poll, only 6% of Australians thought their gun laws were too strict. 40% felt the laws were "about right". 45% felt the laws were not strong enough.
                                                                      Last edited by Legacy; 02-15-2018, 02:50 AM.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                                                                        I was hoping we could have a reasonable, non-partisan discussion about the actual causes of the shootings without resorting to "The idiots on the Right" and "The idiots on the Left" and the typical gun control/anti-gun control rhetoric. Nobody denies that guns are part of the problem, but as I pointed out above, guns were even more readily available a generation or more ago and we didn't have these types of incidents. Obviously, they aren't the entire problem, anymore than cars are the problem with drunk driving fatalities. Clearly there are social, mental health, cultural and other such issues contributing to it.

                                                                        As for doing absolutely nothing, the problem is that there's no clear answer as to WHAT should be done. Just doing "something" when it won't actually solve the problem is pointless. It makes people feel good about doing something, but doesn't actually solve anything.
                                                                        Remember when Obama made background checks for the mentally ill a requirement for purchasing guns? I wonder who revoked that? This issue became political, once the Republicans decided that securing their finances was more important than saving lives.

                                                                        Congrats, guys and gals! Your track record in allowing mass-casualty incidents to continue is second to none.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                          Wrong. Australia's homicide rate was already low and falling. The gun buyback had no statistical impact whatsoever. From a University of Melbourne study:

                                                                          Do you even stats, bro? Take that graph you posted, and segment it into three 8-year parts. Now plot the line of best fit for the three separate sections. It's going to look something like this:

                                                                          1980 - 1988: ---

                                                                          1989 - 1996: --- (sloping down, slightly)

                                                                          1997 - 2004: \

                                                                          That's a significant difference.
                                                                          Last edited by SonofOahu; 02-15-2018, 02:56 AM.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Originally posted by ACamp1900 View Post
                                                                            So the giant Australian wall kept Antarica's massive black gun market out??
                                                                            Those penguins make some mean hardware bruh.

                                                                            Seriously, it seems they recognized the problem and fixed it. Imagine that. They didn’t get all the guns .... something like 20%.

                                                                            Again I am not saying that will work here, but if we place limits on imagination then yes.... something that must be done will never be realized.
                                                                            Last edited by Cackalacky; 02-15-2018, 06:16 AM.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • #39
                                                                              The whole guns were more readily available idea is kind of bullshit. There are currently Waaaaaaayyyyyyy more guns in this country right now than ever before. Its like one gun per every man woman and child. People have stockpiles of weapons and ammo. Hunting and sportsmans activities are on the decline.

                                                                              As of 2009 the US has 101 guns per 100 people. Its like 120 per 100 now. This is twice as much as in 1968n They are also better made, more effective at damage, more accurate, and people are better trained and more knowledgeable at using them.

                                                                              The number of guns per household is actually on decline but that must mean that guns are being horded.
                                                                              https://www.npr.org/2016/01/05/46201...by-the-numbers

                                                                              Gun production is in an exponential rise here in the US. Sooooo, I am not buying that one. Call me partisan or whatever name you want.
                                                                              Last edited by Cackalacky; 02-15-2018, 06:33 AM.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                The whole guns were more readily available idea is kind of bullshit. There are currently Waaaaaaayyyyyyy more guns in this country right now than ever before. Its like one gun per every man woman and child. People have stockpiles of weapons and ammo. Hunting and sportsmans activities are on the decline.

                                                                                As of 2009 the US has 101 guns per 100 people. Its like 120 per 100 now. This is twice as much as in 1968n They are also better made, more effective at damage, more accurate, and people are better trained and more knowledgeable at using them.

                                                                                The number of guns per household is actually on decline but that must mean that guns are being horded.
                                                                                https://www.npr.org/2016/01/05/46201...by-the-numbers

                                                                                Gun production is in an exponential rise here in the US. Sooooo, I am not buying that one. Call me partisan or whatever name you want.
                                                                                I agree with this. The sportsman / self-defense argument is weak. The real reason gun rights are important is revolution, God forbid.

                                                                                Lmao I just figured out that the morons on Twitter think that the AR in AR-15 stands for assault rifle. Wow. That's like taking immigration advice from someone who thinks Mexico is in northern Africa.
                                                                                Last edited by wizards8507; 02-15-2018, 07:37 AM.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by SonofOahu View Post
                                                                                  Remember when Obama made background checks for the mentally ill a requirement for purchasing guns? I wonder who revoked that? This issue became political, once the Republicans decided that securing their finances was more important than saving lives.

                                                                                  Congrats, guys and gals! Your track record in allowing mass-casualty incidents to continue is second to none.
                                                                                  The frequency of mass shootings spiked under Obama and you're going to blame Trump. Democrats had control of both houses during Obama's first term... and you're going to blame Trump. The laws and policy that allow this thing to happen pre-date Trump by decades and decades... but you're going to blame Trump.

                                                                                  I just spent all morning Googling and I cannot find a single place that says Obama's regulations that Trump recently repealed would have stopped Cruz from obtaining a gun... in fact, it seems likely that the gun was purchased before anything was repealed, but that exact timeline is not confirmed yet.

                                                                                  I know this is hard to believe, but not every single thing is Trump's fault. If that's all you want to contribute to the discussion, then kindly shut the fuck up and sit down.
                                                                                  Last edited by IrishLax; 02-15-2018, 08:46 AM. Reason: background information potentially incorrect on shooter

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • #42
                                                                                    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ing-a-firearm/

                                                                                    This shows that household ownership is relatively stable over the years for 1972-2017. The values is 43-47% min/max on average.
                                                                                    Last edited by Cackalacky; 02-15-2018, 08:27 AM.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                                      The frequency of mass shootings spiked under Obama and you're going to blame Trump. Democrats had control of both houses during Obama's first term... and you're going to blame Trump. The laws and policy that allow this thing to happen pre-date Trump by decades and decades... but you're going to blame Trump.

                                                                                      I just spent all morning Googling and I cannot find a single place that says Obama's regulations that Trump recently repealed would have stopped Cruz from obtaining a gun... in fact, it seems likely that the gun was purchased before anything was repealed, but that exact timeline is not confirmed yet.

                                                                                      I know this is hard to believe, but not every single thing is Trump's fault. If that's all you want to contribute to the discussion, then kindly shut the fuck up and sit down.
                                                                                      I would agree here. The problem is more systemic than any one president can hope to fix. It is woven within the current fabric of American society.

                                                                                      But I will say that if people cannot see a problem with more than 1 gun per person in the country (and more because I am sure those are the legal guns) then I don't know what to tell you.

                                                                                      Reducing the number would be a great start.
                                                                                      Last edited by IrishLax; 02-15-2018, 08:53 AM.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • #44

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • #45
                                                                                          Lax did you say this guy was an ANTIFA Resistance guy? Just trying to confirm. There is a lot of misinformation out there. She says its verified him.

                                                                                          <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is an instagram pic of Nikolas Cruz. The kid who murdered 18 innocent children today. <a href="https://t.co/YrdwpUJ4B6">pic.twitter.com/YrdwpUJ4B6</a></p>&mdash; Fact Based (@ALLFACTSALLDAY) <a href="https://twitter.com/ALLFACTSALLDAY/status/964012692070477824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
                                                                                          <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                            Except that the militia and the state are one in the same. Every able-bodied man of fighting age is part of the militia. Remember, we're not supposed to have a standing army, so the role of the militia is huge. If you want to make a "well regulated" argument, I agree. Make firearms safety training a mandatory course for all high school juniors.

                                                                                            On the militia:

                                                                                            "The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country...."

                                                                                            On the right to revolution:

                                                                                            "It is not certain that with this aid alone [possession of arms], they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to posses the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will, and direct the national force; and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned, in spite of the legions which surround it."

                                                                                            - James Madison

                                                                                            Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
                                                                                            Last edited by wizards8507; 02-15-2018, 08:38 AM.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                              Lax did you say this guy was an ANTIFA Resistance guy? Just trying to confirm. There is a lot of misinformation out there. She says its verified him.

                                                                                              <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here is an instagram pic of Nikolas Cruz. The kid who murdered 18 innocent children today. <a href="https://t.co/YrdwpUJ4B6">pic.twitter.com/YrdwpUJ4B6</a></p>&mdash; Fact Based (@ALLFACTSALLDAY) <a href="https://twitter.com/ALLFACTSALLDAY/status/964012692070477824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
                                                                                              <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
                                                                                              Yeah, first of all, I don't even blame myself here because where I read all of this was reputable sources. This wasn't Twitter, it was links to blog posts. Reporting is absolute shit right now with the rush to be first.

                                                                                              I'm reading retractions right now, and one of them is that his name was spelled wrong and they got the wrong guy Nicolas Cruz instead of Nikolas Cruz. Another is that there was a look-a-like that fooled people. Got to be kidding me.

                                                                                              As far as I can tell, he had posts on social media about killing law enforcement and ANTIFA. He had a picture with the MAGA hat. He had anti-Muslim stuff... while belonging to ISIS friendly social media groups?... but most reporting has him as a likely right-winger if I'm reading it correctly. From interviews with former classmates, apparently he was all over the map, and more pro-violence than anything else.

                                                                                              He's alive, so I'm sure he'll talk at some point. I'm going to edit my post.
                                                                                              Last edited by IrishLax; 02-15-2018, 08:55 AM.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                                                Except that the militia and the state are one in the same. Every able-bodied man of fighting age is part of the militia. Remember, we're not supposed to have a standing army, so the role of the militia is huge. If you want to make a "well regulated" argument, I agree. Make firearms safety training a mandatory course for all high school juniors.

                                                                                                On the militia:

                                                                                                "The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country...."

                                                                                                On the right to revolution:

                                                                                                "It is not certain that with this aid alone [possession of arms], they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to posses the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will, and direct the national force; and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned, in spite of the legions which surround it."

                                                                                                - James Madison

                                                                                                Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
                                                                                                By your argument people should be able to have any gun/weapon that the government has, an effective arms race if you will. I think we both can see the absurdity of tkaing that reasoning to fruition.

                                                                                                As far as the militia = state... I dont understand what you are saying. A militia is formed by able bodied men as a call to arms at a time of need.... not a number of individual persons carrying any number of guns (hiddden or otherwise) and parading about an airport just becasue or to go to the gas station to get milk. There si no defense of the state needed anymore with the most adanced army in the world that has the most advanced weapons ever imagined.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                                  As far as the militia = state... I dont understand what you are saying. A militia is formed by able bodied men as a call to arms at a time of need.... not a number of individual persons carrying any number of guns (hiddden or otherwise) and parading about an airport just becasue or to go to the gas station to get milk. There si no defense of the state needed anymore with the most adanced army in the world that has the most advanced weapons ever imagined.
                                                                                                  Spoken like a true Kingsman circa 1775. You don't need superior firepower to win a war. You just need to be able to kill enough of the other guys to make them think twice about how badly they want to fight.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                  • #50
                                                                                                    Why is it so easy to get a weapon of mass destruction?
                                                                                                    Why are we not treating those mentally ill?
                                                                                                    Why are we allowing mentally ill to purchase weapons of mass destruction?
                                                                                                    Why are we not making gun owners pass tests on an annual basis to ensure not just their competency with the weapon to avoid accidents, but also their mental competency?

                                                                                                    And the answer to all those questions is: The American political system.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    Adsense

                                                                                                    Collapse
                                                                                                    Working...
                                                                                                    X