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  • Racism

    I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


    Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com



    Edit: I would like to impress upon all posters to refrain from low energy posts and judgmental posts as much as possible please. Lets keep this civil. We are all IE brothers.
    Last edited by Cackalacky; 04-30-2017, 05:07 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
    I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


    Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com
    It's incredibly messed up for a kid to do this to another kid, regardless of what they look like. I would hope it isn't because of what he looked like.

    I've always had the Blazing Saddles approach to handling race. Make fun of it and be totally blunt about it. People are so concerned about being PC or victims and they always dodge the real issues.
    Running the damn ball since 2017.

    Comment


    • #3
      This is going to be a fun thread.
      60% of the time, it works every time.

      Comment


      • #4
        ndgrad is sitting somewhere, peacefully reading Fountainhead, and an odd breeze flows through his hair...

        "something is amiss" he whispers...
        Originally posted by koonja
        I'm making peace with Woolly in 2017.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
          I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


          Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com
          There's nothing racist in that article. Like, at all. A black kid and his redneck friend did some stupid shit and the kid ends up on fire. Then a black police captain investigates the incident and the white kid ends up charged.

          I distinctly recall being around that age when my friends shoved my feet in a jack-o-lantern bucket full of thumb tacks. Not as severe, but the same dumbass kid thought process.

          I don't get where the allegations of racism come into play at all. The two kids were friends and the cop conducting the investigation was black.

          Also, the article is bullshit. As evidence that "Jim Crow still lingers in this county blah blah," they cite a 1944 case where a black teenager was convicted of murder.

          Comment


          • #6
            Gentlemen, I'll duck posting in this thread, but in case I want to read and learn something: could someone begin this thing by attempting to write a useful definition of "racism" to which other commentators might refer when they unload their own opinions (and God Forbid prejudices)?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
              Gentlemen, I'll duck posting in this thread, but in case I want to read and learn something: could someone begin this thing by attempting to write a useful definition of "racism" to which other commentators might refer when they unload their own opinions (and God Forbid prejudices)?


              Definition of racism
              1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

              2a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
              b : a political or social system founded on racism

              3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                It's incredibly messed up for a kid to do this to another kid, regardless of what they look like. I would hope it isn't because of what he looked like.

                I've always had the Blazing Saddles approach to handling race. Make fun of it and be totally blunt about it. People are so concerned about being PC or victims and they always dodge the real issues.
                A long time ago, I used to do that too.

                But then I found out it wasn't okay for white people, with all they had, to kid about something that was an everyday reality for others. One that wasn't at all advantageous.

                It would kind of like Buckeye fans kidding ND about sometimes having a 'real college football team' after the results of the last five or so meetings between the two teams. Stuff like, 'Let the women's basketball team play, it couldn't be much worse!'

                The only problem with my analogy is the Constitution doesn't say all teams are created equal, so we Irish fans have to suffer it. No individual should ever have to because of a trait or feature, however.

                Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                There's nothing racist in that article. Like, at all. A black kid and his redneck friend did some stupid shit and the kid ends up on fire. Then a black police captain investigates the incident and the white kid ends up charged.

                I distinctly recall being around that age when my friends shoved my feet in a jack-o-lantern bucket full of thumb tacks. Not as severe, but the same dumbass kid thought process.

                I don't get where the allegations of racism come into play at all. The two kids were friends and the cop conducting the investigation was black.

                Also, the article is bullshit. As evidence that "Jim Crow still lingers in this county blah blah," they cite a 1944 case where a black teenager was convicted of murder.
                Here is a real problem. Not only is there enough anecdotal evidence to show that a professional investigation wasn't conducted by the lame duck sherriff, but there is actually information not touched on in this article that shows white firefighters' suppressed information in the investigation. And their determination that what the step-father claimed happened couldn't be true.

                So, not only don't I agree with you, I would point to your response as a classical example of racism, spawned by white privilege. Every one of your misstatements of the facts from claiming the boys to be friends, to seeing this as anything but a sneak attack supports that. If you had bad things happen to you as a kid that resulted in your intensive care hospitalization for two days, I am sorry.

                The closest thing I remember is having a big kid repeatedly punch me at the baseball diamond because they wanted to kick us out. I started to walk away, and he and his friends started to laugh at me. I just walked over to our equipment pile and picked up my #34 Louisville Slugger, turned around and went for him. He turned just in time for me to hit him over the head with a life changing blow. If he hadn't had an old-fashioned catcher's mask on and up, I probably would have killed him.

                So when he took off running after me, I still beat him out of the park and the half-block to my home. As luck would have it, my oldest cousin and his partner, (truly a couple of Irish whales) had just stopped by to see my parents while on patrol. They looked at me bleeding, and such, and this kid coming after me and they snatched his ass. They took him home with lights on and scared the holy family out of his mom.

                I asked him if the kid was going to get in trouble, and my cousin said no with a smile, that they were bluffing when they returned him, and that I hit the kid so hard that he didn't know what day it was. They just wanted to keep his parents from going after us.

                Kids can be guilty of assault and battery, and even the kind of blood letting we went through, both of us saw it coming. This kid got burned on his back, with second and third-degree burns. The were 100% on his back and the worst were at the point of origin of the fire. He was doused and lit from behind, so he never saw it coming. So they weren't playing.

                And incidental ignition of clothing almost doesn't happen anymore, without being doused by an accelerant. No, you can get spark smoldering clothing off well before it is a problem, and even then burns aren't as severe. Accelerant on the skin produces second and third-degree burns.

                Finally, one thing not included in the definition of racism, it survives with ignorance. The 1944 murder case that you claim isn't relevant, is a case where a 14-year-old was executed after a confession was coerced from him, and he was not allowed to see his family over months of incarceration. Though he was executed, the trial conviction was vacated in 2013 because his rights were so egregiously violated. And they were violated because he was black.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bogs, if the kids weren't friends, why did the black kid sneak out of the house to go play with the white kid? Why were they playing in the sprinklers with one another?

                  Regarding the fire department, if you have information that's not in the article, please share.

                  Of course the 1944 case was racism. My objection is that the author used it as evidence of the legacy of Jim Crow. Obviously it's not relevant to commentary of POST Jim Crow.

                  Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
                  Last edited by wizards8507; 04-30-2017, 03:05 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kids are dumb and cruel. I don't think race really comes into this one. Hope the little guy ends up alright.

                    Never underestimate children's stupidity.
                    Based Mullet Kid owns

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We all know what racism is. We dont need a definition. The question is that is what we see today racism?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Irishnuke View Post
                        This is going to be a fun thread.


                        O/U on poster casualties before it gets locked has been set at 4.5. Visit the vbook to place your bets.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                          Kids are dumb and cruel. I don't think race really comes into this one. Hope the little guy ends up alright.

                          Never underestimate children's stupidity.
                          The handling of the case by they police is certainly questionable. The lies about how the kid caught fire (later debunked) is certainly weird. The boys mother is the one claiming that racism played a part in the investigation, less so with the actual burning.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bogtrotter07 View Post
                            A long time ago, I used to do that too.
                            But then I found out it wasn't okay for white people, with all they had, to kid about something that was an everyday reality for others. One that wasn't at all advantageous.
                            What do I have? I hate it when people act like being white is some kind of birth right perpetuity. I went to an urban school where I was the minority. I actually did a minority to minority transfer, as a white kid, in Dallas, TX and turned a few heads from the school office when I did it. I still remember sticking our hands up at the end of football practice to break and mine stood out. I was educated in an equal playing field in my public education then I got a couple degrees paid for by Uncle Sam and the GI Bill after serving because I, like most in my school, couldn't just go to college (especially one like ND!) on daddy's dime. I should have been a Romney.

                            When you have a black person as a minority in the crowd it is an entirely different dynamic from what happens with a white person as the minority in the crowd. And don't ever tell me that black people can't be racist too. I was always blunt about it, generally because everyone else around me was as well.

                            I would argue access (generally from money) is what separates what people have and don't have. I think this is why we see unfortunate cycles in certain communities, regardless of color.

                            What Dez Bryant said a few weeks back about black culture being held back by a lack of accountability was spot on. Shortly thereafter, Stephen A Smith, the most annoying man in the world, came in to argue that he was just trying to please white people and we can't ignore the old and new world of Jim Crow. People who want to be held back will be. People who want to be victims will be. Go ahead, hold yourself back. White poor cycles exist too and are not few and far in between.

                            People always look to divide themselves. I've seen it at schools where it was black/white, rich/poor, catholic/protestant, and established/new. Which side of the tracks are you on? Always.

                            You can blame other people throughout your life or hold yourself accountable and accomplish something. I will never look at someone of any race and prejudge them on what they have or don't have and what they are or are not because of how they were born. I don't like the issue because people spend too much time dancing around what they think or trying to not offend people. The issue will never get better when it is all we can talk about. I would imply you are doing no one a favor trying to understand what they don't have because of their skin.
                            Last edited by drayer54; 04-30-2017, 04:48 PM.
                            Running the damn ball since 2017.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                              I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


                              Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com



                              Edit: I would like to impress upon all posters to refrain from low energy posts and judgmental posts as much as possible please. Lets keep this civil. We are all IE brothers.

                              So the white kid's stepfather possibly saves the black kid's life, then immediately goes to his mother explaining what happened and this is somehow racism. ok.

                              Last Monday a white Fordham student was assaulted and robbed a couple blocks off campus in the Bronx by three adult African American males. The student was taken by ambulance to the hospital. Some variation of this happens every couple weeks. Odd that this story isn't newsworthy but the one you posted is. Guess we'll never know why though.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                So the white kid's stepfather possibly saves the black kid's life, then immediately goes to his mother explaining what happened and this is somehow racism. ok.

                                Last Monday a white Fordham student was assaulted and robbed a couple blocks off campus in the Bronx by three adult African American males. The student was taken by ambulance to the hospital. Some variation of this happens every couple weeks. Odd that this story isn't newsworthy but the one you posted is. Guess we'll never know why though.
                                I guess the new theory is that it's the firefighters and the cops who are racist, not the white dad. But maybe the white dad too.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I do find some of the white privilege stuff interesting as I live in the southeast where many of the poorest people around are white. Seems like a lot of stuff that gets characterized as racist is more about class.

                                  There never seems to be frank discussions about race, ethnic groups, etc... The fact is some consistently do better than others. Why is that? Why do Asians in this country make more money than white people in this country? Why do blacks make less? Is it all predestined at birth based on skin color?

                                  I think a big issue is the lack of an intact family unit. I'm fairly progressive on many issues but there seems to be a strong correlation between a child's success and a stable, two parent family. No surprise that the divorce rate is higher in black households and lowest in Asian households. At a certain point, individuals/groups need to take responsibility for themselves and their own success.

                                  At the end of the day, people are tribal and like to break up into groups. If we were all the same skin color, we would find other ways of "hating" each other.
                                  "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I watched "Get Out" last night.

                                    Freaky movie.

                                    Straight up in line with today's Racism.

                                    BTW Bradley Whitford looks just Joe Maddon big time!
                                    Last edited by johnnycando; 04-30-2017, 06:10 PM.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      About six months or so back I had a black professor tell me I didn't earn my degrees or anything else I have because I'm white and 'white privilege', just matter of factly in a normal conversation like that's just shit you drop on someone normally... this douche nozzle literally knows nothing about me at all aside from the color of my skin. Her playing that card makes her elightened and me a privledged SOB that needs to sit down and stfu. It's bullshit. I can also just about guarantee I come from a less privledged background than her and have had numerous opportunities denied me through the years due to nothing at all aside from my skin being pale. This dynamic does more harm than good imo as it prevents real discussions that could actually prove constructive in minority communities, instead, it's all 'racism'... and frankly it's a false dichotomy anyway as a lot of this privilege is tied to wealth, not nessecarily race. For a side: this professor teaches American History... I find that incredibly problematic.


                                      Anyway, long to short, Im very troubled by numerous things in minority communities and have been vocal and active in trying to help... at least locally. Throwing those like me under the privilege bus on nothing other than skin color while decrying discrimination or racism is self defeating. I can speak for myself, it puts up walls in front of those who would otherwise be in the trenches.
                                      Last edited by ACamp1900; 04-30-2017, 07:50 PM.
                                      There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Forgive me, I saw Rocks post on privilege and it got me going... I can laugh off almost every political or social dynamic on IE, but that one always gets me... 'racism' has way more layers than just that tho, so moving along....
                                        Last edited by ACamp1900; 04-30-2017, 06:39 PM.
                                        There is no such thing as a boneless wing!! Stop trying to make your nugget sound all fancy.

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Originally posted by NDPhilly View Post
                                          So the white kid's stepfather possibly saves the black kid's life, then immediately goes to his mother explaining what happened and this is somehow racism. ok.

                                          Last Monday a white Fordham student was assaulted and robbed a couple blocks off campus in the Bronx by three adult African American males. The student was taken by ambulance to the hospital. Some variation of this happens every couple weeks. Odd that this story isn't newsworthy but the one you posted is. Guess we'll never know why though.
                                          I think you are missing the point. Its not about what the dad did or didnt do. Its not about what the police did or didnt do. Its that the mother is claiming racism on how the police handled the investigation. We wont ever know what was in the white kids heart or why he set a black kid on fire. But there are things in the story that dont add up. If you have an article by all means post it. Lets discuss. I didnt scour the nations headlines looking for something. This happened literally 35 miles away from my house.

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                            Edit: I would like to impress upon all posters to refrain from low energy posts and judgmental posts as much as possible please. Lets keep this civil. We are all IE brothers.
                                            Originally posted by Irishnuke View Post
                                            This is going to be a fun thread.
                                            Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                                            ndgrad is sitting somewhere, peacefully reading Fountainhead, and an odd breeze flows through his hair...

                                            "something is amiss" he whispers...
                                            Lol second and third post of thread
                                            Prehistoric

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              Originally posted by ACamp1900 View Post
                                              About six months or so back I had a black professor tell me I didn't earn my degrees or anything else I have because I'm white and 'white privledge', just matter of factly in a normal conversation like that's just shit you drop on someone normally... this douche nozzle literally knows nothing about me at all aside from the color of my skin. Her playing that card makes her elightened and me a privledged SOB that needs to sit down and stfu. It's bullshit. I can also just about guarantee I come from a less privledged background than her and have had numerous opportunities denied me through the years due to nothing at all aside from my skin being pale. This dynamic does more harm than good imo as it prevents real discussions that could actually prove constructive in minority communities, instead, it's all 'racism'... and frankly it's a false dichotomy anyway as a lot of this privledge is tied to wealth, not nessecarily race. For a side: this black professor teaches American History... I find that incredibly problematic.

                                              Anyway, long to short, Im very troubled by numerous things in minority communities and have been vocal and active in trying to help... at least locally. Throwing those like me under the privledge bus on nothing other than skin color while decrying discrimination or racism is self defeating. I can speak for myself, it puts up walls in front of those who would otherwise be in the trenches.
                                              Without a doubt, the weirdest thing about the "Twitter era" of race relations is that people who hate white people realized they can openly express bigotry and hatred towards white people with no consequence. They're literally espousing anti-white rhetoric and aggressively pushing for anti-whiteness under the guise of "inclusion." And moreover, you cannot express the slightest critique of such sentiment without being labeled a bigot/racist/whatever. Here is a perfect recent example where a company owned by a black woman enraged their mostly-black consumers by daring to put a white girl in an advertisement (alongside black people).

                                              The internet and blogs and social media have effectively made race relations irreparable in this country because they emboldened anti-white racists to express their feelings which then leads to backlash and things like Trump. And they're taking that anti-whiteness into curriculum and housing to normalize division along racial lines. With respect to segregated housing put forth by public institutions (that rather obviously violates the letter of our federal law if you read it textually), the rationale used to justify it is to imply that white people are dangerous and the black people need to be protected from them.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                Without a doubt, the weirdest thing about the "Twitter era" of race relations is that people who hate white people realized they can openly express bigotry and hatred towards white people with no consequence. They're literally espousing anti-white rhetoric and aggressively pushing for anti-whiteness under the guise of "inclusion." And moreover, you cannot express the slightest critique of such sentiment without being labeled a bigot/racist/whatever. Here is a perfect recent example where a company owned by a black woman enraged their mostly-black consumers by daring to put a white girl in an advertisement (alongside black people).

                                                The internet and blogs and social media have effectively made race relations irreparable in this country because they emboldened anti-white racists to express their feelings which then leads to backlash and things like Trump. And they're taking that anti-whiteness into curriculum and housing to normalize division along racial lines. With respect to segregated housing put forth by public institutions (that rather obviously violates the letter of our federal law if you read it textually), the rationale used to justify it is to imply that white people are dangerous and the black people need to be protected from them.
                                                <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shea Moisture centered white women in a black woman space and that is so hurtful. Yall not getting my coins. Them white women can have yall</p>&mdash; busan babe™ (@melaninbarbie) <a href="https://twitter.com/melaninbarbie/status/856586703108272128">April 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
                                                I blame Trump.
                                                Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  Here's what I'll add to this thread and then basically bow out before it turns into a shit show...

                                                  -One of my first hands-on experiences with racism was when I was in HS and my dad was driving me somewhere in his Mercedes. My dad gets pulled over by a cop for "speeding". There's some back and forth and then the cop literally asks him "how he got this car" after registration and everything checks out. My dad gets a little irritated at that and the cop comes back with "the only beaners that drive a car like this are drug dealers" and asks my dad to step out of the vehicle and says he's going to search the car. I'm going to skip a lot of the story and just say it ends with my dad getting charged with "reckless driving" and then the case being immediately dismissed in court when the cop admits he didn't even radar the car for a speed reading.

                                                  -Institutional racism is very real. People legitimately should educate themselves it and not dismiss it. White privilege is also very real.

                                                  -Modern day racism is nowhere close the overt racism of the Jim Crow era and I hate when the two are conflated. The "New Jim Crow" i.e. mass incarceration is not the same as actual Jim Crow. The oppression is not the same, stop saying things like "modern day slavery" when it's nowhere close to actual-freaking-slavery. I dislike progress deniers and opportunists who have made an "activism" career out of racism. They only serve to profit by having people hate each other.

                                                  -I think Black Lives Matter has done more to hurt race relations in this country than any organization in my lifetime.

                                                  -It cracks me up how saying "colored people" was determined a long time ago to be offensive, so then modern day activists rebranded it "people of color" to ensure that they can unite all non-whites against whites. And ensure that everyone with tan skin can claim to be a victim.

                                                  -The most racist group of people I've ever met in my life are Asians. Last time I said this people got mad, so let me just quickly say that if you have a problem with that I don't care. Fuck off, it's my personal experience and I know it doesn't apply to everyone. They're the only people I've ever seen physically beat someone for dating a black guy. They're the only people who have ever told their daughter they couldn't date me because of skin color. They're the only group of people I've ever seen openly and regularly express disdain for other races in my presence like it's no big deal... and not just Asian vs black, or Asian vs white, I mean like Koreans telling me how "inferior" people from Vietnam are. But according to modern SJWs, they're all part of the big "people of color" tent so they can't be racist.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #26
                                                    Glimpses of trivial moments:

                                                    A). A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I was playing street ball in Ames Iowa and everyone else in the game was black. I was at the peak of my powers then, so I blew past the first two guys regularly. Then everyone else would converge to jump out of the sky to try to block my shot --- Racism? After a while, I began to fake a few moves in the air, but hand it off to teammates standing alone for layups. We held court all afternoon. A crowd of sorts collected. Murmurs in that crowd were "White Boy got some game." Racism?

                                                    B). Later at WMU when I still had some game, I'd be playing full court with otherwise all black players (my noontime recreation from teaching.) Some blacks (who weren't in the game) would occasionally run alongside me down the court yelling that I shouldn't be in the game. Racism?

                                                    C). One day we were in the early pick-em moments of a session (only eight there yet) when two guys walked in simultaneously to make ten. One was an old white math prof (who was actually pretty good) and the other was a 6'4" black guy who hadn't been there but once that I knew of. My "captain" (he "Got Game" in the other sense of that) wanted the black guy even though he'd never seen him and knew Jerry quite well. "My man looks like he's got some ball in him". (The time I'd seen this guy he was stoned and ruined his team.) Racism?

                                                    I mention these trivial examples because these "small matters" were common parts of real life. Does it take big things to be racist? Do small things make racism, or whatever the above things were, almost impossible to stay unemotional and open-minded ... about ANYTHING (as soon as we hear some sketchy commentary on something.)?

                                                    Probably none of this seems germane, but those experiences gave me an admittedly very small taste of what felt like unearned prejudice, and it was hard to be always in a love-and-peace ZEN world because of them.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #27
                                                      Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                      I think you are missing the point. Its not about what the dad did or didnt do. Its not about what the police did or didnt do. Its that the mother is claiming racism on how the police handled the investigation. We wont ever know what was in the white kids heart or why he set a black kid on fire. But there are things in the story that dont add up. If you have an article by all means post it. Lets discuss. I didnt scour the nations headlines looking for something. This happened literally 35 miles away from my house.
                                                      I have no idea if the cops "bungled" the case because of racism. The mother thought the child should have been charged sooner when it took a month and two days. I don't work in law enforcement but it seems people often think the wheels of justice should move quicker than they actually do. Even if it was slower than it should have been it doesn't mean the reason was racism. Often times it is simply incompetence or some other factors.

                                                      Years ago, I bought an old POS car to drive back and forth to the river (kayak). It literally cost $250 and was junk. I was pulled over two times in that thing for no other reason than driving a POS. Once the cop asked me, "do you even have a job"? Now, if I was black I would swear the guy was racist and pulled me over because of my race. I think this type of thing happens often. People assume others are being racist when in fact they are just assholes or are bad at their jobs.

                                                      Of course there is still plenty of racism in this country.
                                                      "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #28
                                                        Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                        Here's what I'll add to this thread and then basically bow out before it turns into a shit show...

                                                        -Institutional racism is very real. People legitimately should educate themselves it and not dismiss it. White privilege is also very real.
                                                        I have no doubt there are aspects of life that are representative of this. But, I default to Ben Shapiro. I get tired of hearing "Institutional Racism" as a cover for, well, anything. If you name the policy or institution that is racist, I'm more than happy to stand shoulder to shoulder and fight that policy or institution with anyone. But that's never what happens. It's a faceless man that you never see or hear that holds everyone down.

                                                        It's like shouting FIRE in a room with fire fighters. The first few times, those fire fighters will ask where it is so they can put it out. But, instead of a location, you just say "Everywhere". Of course there is a fire somewhere, but unless you can give a location, it can't actually be fought. Eventually, when you shout fire, even though there is a room full of people wanting to help, they'll just tune you out.
                                                        Last edited by Woneone; 04-30-2017, 09:38 PM.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #29
                                                          Originally posted by Woneone View Post
                                                          I have no doubt there are aspects of life that are representative of this. But, I default to Ben Shapiro. I get tired of hearing "Institutional Racism" as a cover for, well, anything. If you name the policy or institution that is racist, I'm more than happy to stand shoulder to shoulder and fight that policy or institution with anyone. But that's never what happens. It's a faceless man that you never see or hear that holds everyone down.

                                                          It's like shouting FIRE in a room with fire fighters. The first few times, those fire fighters will ask where it is so they can put it out. But, instead of a location, you just say "Everywhere". Of course there is a fire somewhere, but unless you can give a location, it can't actually be fought. Eventually, when you shout fire, even though there is a room full of people wanting to help, they'll just tune you out.
                                                          I agree it shouldn't be a catchall boogeyman and that people handwaving at everything and crying racism is a problem.

                                                          I'm talking about things like black people having 12x the wrongful conviction rate for drug crimes, and people with "black" names having a substantially worse callback rate on their resumes. Those are concrete, legitimate things one can point to as still being a problem.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #30
                                                            Originally posted by NDRock View Post
                                                            Years ago, I bought an old POS car to drive back and forth to the river (kayak). It literally cost $250 and was junk. I was pulled over two times in that thing for no other reason than driving a POS. Once the cop asked me, "do you even have a job"? Now, if I was black I would swear the guy was racist and pulled me over because of my race. I think this type of thing happens often. People assume others are being racist when in fact they are just assholes or are bad at their jobs.

                                                            Of course there is still plenty of racism in this country.
                                                            Exactly. You can't judge the black race by the actions of individual black people, and you can't judge the white race by the actions of individual white people. Similarly, you can't judge every manifestation of a particular institution by how it acts in one place or another.

                                                            Why should anecdotes about racist cops tell you any more than anecdotes about street crime involving black people?
                                                            A crime committed by a young black man does not reveal the "truth" that all black people criminals. A racist comment by a white police officer in Boston doesn't reveal the "truth" that the Police department in Boston is a racist institution, and it certainly doesn't tell you about, say, Dallas police.

                                                            Just because racism exists in some places in some ways, you can't just generalize and insist that you know it exists everywhere in whatever way you think. That's just lazy thinking, and people get away with it because people are terrified about being labeled racist (they should be terrified of being racist, not for getting labeled racist unfairly).
                                                            Last edited by Domina Nostra; 04-30-2017, 10:02 PM.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #31
                                                              Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                              I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


                                                              Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com



                                                              Edit: I would like to impress upon all posters to refrain from low energy posts and judgmental posts as much as possible please. Lets keep this civil. We are all IE brothers.

                                                              What a BS piece of yellow journalism! Angela Jackson should get an F for this piece. It should not be the basis for the topic of this thread. I read the article as well as any other aticle google produced on a search of 11 year old sets 6 year old on fire. Jackson managed to capture the Tawana Brawley aspects of mama screaming racism while attacking the authorities for lack of justice.

                                                              The article is entitled, "A young black boy was set on fire. A white boy was charged. But a history of racial tension runs deep in Clarendon County."

                                                              1 A young black boy was set on fire.

                                                              2. A white boy was charged.

                                                              3. BUT a history of racial tension runs deep in Clarendon County.

                                                              Note that the black is YOUNG. He is six. The white boy apparently isn't YOUNG although he's 11. The meat of the story is the BUT. It's known as an erasure word regardless of what came before here comes the real message, racial tension runs deep here.


                                                              How deep does it run in an 11 year old? Are mom and stepdad KKKers? Is there a history of racial hatred taught in THIS family? The article notes the families kids weren't supposed to play with each other in a unsupported smear. Seems nobody knows why even though the incident took place in October 2016. Six months isn't enough time for Angela Jackson to determine any facts? Jackson does mention that the white yard was supposed to be "cluttered".

                                                              The boy was playing near a grill when he was supposed to be home in his room , "grounded". Was the six year old playing with the lighter fluid NEAR THE GRILL? Did the older boy, regardless of race, spray the younger one and ignite him? By accident? Intentionally?

                                                              Was he screaming racial epithets? Wearing a white hood? Shouting black lives don't matter? Claiming his IQ was higher? Or that Larry Bird could out jump His Airness?

                                                              The article goes to say the stepfather of the alleged assailant rolled the boy in a puddle of water to put out the fire. Why would a racist family provide aid?

                                                              The article continues that the stepfather walked the YOUNG boy home. A few sentences later the article notes the stepfather was carrying the boy in his arms? Which was it?

                                                              The article goes on to note that mama wasn't allowed to speak of the incident because of an impending election. It notes sheriff at the time was white but the current sheriff is black. Mama claims she can't get no satisfaction yet in another article the current sheriff claims he reached out to the family but they won't make contact with him.

                                                              There was an investigation and charges IN FAMILY COURT. Family court activities usually aren't public because of the age of those involved.

                                                              The 11 year was charged in a month and two days, yet mama's upset that it was justice delayed? Why so long? Was it long?

                                                              The article notes that The National Action Network reached out to help the family in pursuing racial justice. WTF are they? Google informs me, it's the organization founded by Al Sharpton. Ah, the guy that brought the world the fraudulent Tawana Brawley rape/police coverup case.

                                                              We learn the fire department ruled the incident accidental but Jackson doesn't present any information from that report. Did Family Court suppress it, Angie or didn't it fit your narrative?

                                                              Jackson spent more time on racial incidents in the past than she does on the facts and finding in this incident.

                                                              Jim Crow? Really?

                                                              Was the 11 year old enforcing segregation, Angie?

                                                              Was he preventing the six year old from owning property or abrogating his right to vote, Angie?


                                                              It's a tragedy that anyone suffers such burns as Emery McCray did whether intentional or accidental. It's a tragedy for mama and activists to try and high jack justice. Let Family Court run do it's job and rule on the incident. If they don't like the outcome they can challenge the ruling as law allows.


                                                              By the way, when not stirring the pot for the post courier, Angie Jackson "enjoys teaching yoga and exploring the outdoors".

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #32
                                                                The NRA's Struggle to Prove Black Guns Matter

                                                                In the first three months of this year, gun purchases have gone down nationally by 14 percent compared with the same period in 2016, according to federal background check data, but gun store owners report an increase in sales to blacks, Hispanics and members of the LGBT community. It’s a surge driven in large measure by horrific incidents such as the shootings at Emanuel AME Church in Charleston and Pulse nightclub in Orlando. Many in the targeted groups have found themselves reconsidering their opposition to firearms as a means for self-defense. “We had a mix of people who joined up in response to the Pulse shooting, as well as the election,” Sarah Jane Smith, an organizer with the Atlanta chapter of the LGBTQ-friendly gun organization Pink Pistols, wrote in a Facebook message. In California, Redstone Firearms owner Geneva Solomon, who is black, has recently seen black customers double because Trump’s election, she said, gave prejudiced people “a license to talk bad to you, call you out and harass you.”
                                                                “It’s been probably the last two years, [where] the minority community really got into it,” said Sharrod Edwards, a retired U.S. Marine. “Whereas, it’s almost to the point—I’m trying to think about how to say this in the right way…it’s almost like a taboo for a minority to want to get into this because how they think people are going to see them. I carry open—and it’s weird, when you carry open, with a gun on your hip.” No one blinks, he said, if they see a white guy with a gun on his hip. But people “ask me: ‘Do you have a license?’ I’m like, ‘What license?’ To be honest, I don’t need a license. The law says in Georgia I don’t need a license to carry open—that’s why I carry open.”

                                                                “Look at a black man with a firearm, and they're always being looked at in a negative light,” Williams agreed.
                                                                Racism relies on stereotyping. The NRA as the protector of Second Amendment rights is based on an underlying mythology that law and order violators and criminals are people of color. The NRA's stated goals of gun ownership unrestrained by registration or regulations will level the playing field for all, and will increase gun ownership among minorities - a situation that may disturb those members who adhere to the racial stereotype.
                                                                Last edited by Legacy; 05-01-2017, 04:19 AM.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • #33
                                                                  Originally posted by BGIF View Post
                                                                  What a BS piece of yellow journalism! Angela Jackson should get an F for this piece. It should not be the basis for the topic of this thread. I read the article as well as any other aticle google produced on a search of 11 year old sets 6 year old on fire. Jackson managed to capture the Tawana Brawley aspects of mama screaming racism while attacking the authorities for lack of justice.

                                                                  The article is entitled, "A young black boy was set on fire. A white boy was charged. But a history of racial tension runs deep in Clarendon County."

                                                                  1 A young black boy was set on fire.

                                                                  2. A white boy was charged.

                                                                  3. BUT a history of racial tension runs deep in Clarendon County.

                                                                  Note that the black is YOUNG. He is six. The white boy apparently isn't YOUNG although he's 11. The meat of the story is the BUT. It's known as an erasure word regardless of what came before here comes the real message, racial tension runs deep here.


                                                                  How deep does it run in an 11 year old? Are mom and stepdad KKKers? Is there a history of racial hatred taught in THIS family? The article notes the families kids weren't supposed to play with each other in a unsupported smear. Seems nobody knows why even though the incident took place in October 2016. Six months isn't enough time for Angela Jackson to determine any facts? Jackson does mention that the white yard was supposed to be "cluttered".

                                                                  The boy was playing near a grill when he was supposed to be home in his room , "grounded". Was the six year old playing with the lighter fluid NEAR THE GRILL? Did the older boy, regardless of race, spray the younger one and ignite him? By accident? Intentionally?

                                                                  Was he screaming racial epithets? Wearing a white hood? Shouting black lives don't matter? Claiming his IQ was higher? Or that Larry Bird could out jump His Airness?

                                                                  The article goes to say the stepfather of the alleged assailant rolled the boy in a puddle of water to put out the fire. Why would a racist family provide aid?

                                                                  The article continues that the stepfather walked the YOUNG boy home. A few sentences later the article notes the stepfather was carrying the boy in his arms? Which was it?

                                                                  The article goes on to note that mama wasn't allowed to speak of the incident because of an impending election. It notes sheriff at the time was white but the current sheriff is black. Mama claims she can't get no satisfaction yet in another article the current sheriff claims he reached out to the family but they won't make contact with him.

                                                                  There was an investigation and charges IN FAMILY COURT. Family court activities usually aren't public because of the age of those involved.

                                                                  The 11 year was charged in a month and two days, yet mama's upset that it was justice delayed? Why so long? Was it long?

                                                                  The article notes that The National Action Network reached out to help the family in pursuing racial justice. WTF are they? Google informs me, it's the organization founded by Al Sharpton. Ah, the guy that brought the world the fraudulent Tawana Brawley rape/police coverup case.

                                                                  We learn the fire department ruled the incident accidental but Jackson doesn't present any information from that report. Did Family Court suppress it, Angie or didn't it fit your narrative?

                                                                  Jackson spent more time on racial incidents in the past than she does on the facts and finding in this incident.

                                                                  Jim Crow? Really?

                                                                  Was the 11 year old enforcing segregation, Angie?

                                                                  Was he preventing the six year old from owning property or abrogating his right to vote, Angie?


                                                                  It's a tragedy that anyone suffers such burns as Emery McCray did whether intentional or accidental. It's a tragedy for mama and activists to try and high jack justice. Let Family Court run do it's job and rule on the incident. If they don't like the outcome they can challenge the ruling as law allows.


                                                                  By the way, when not stirring the pot for the post courier, Angie Jackson "enjoys teaching yoga and exploring the outdoors".
                                                                  You are exactly right BGIF. I chose this in part because of the way it was presented in the article. This is what and how we are being presented information. That is a major component to this discussion andone we should all be wary of.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • #34
                                                                    Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                    I guess the new theory is that it's the firefighters and the cops who are racist, not the white dad. But maybe the white dad too.
                                                                    Listen, I'm done.

                                                                    I am not saying who is racist in the story. I can't judge that.
                                                                    • The lame-duck sheriff definitely didn't do a proper investigation. (Could have been short-timers disease, or the incompetence, after all, he lost the election.)
                                                                    • The fire department passed through a scientifically untenable story about how the injury occurred. (Could have been abject stupidity, and unprofessional or unethical behavior.)
                                                                    • The step-father telling the story lied (could have been for no other reason than avoiding responsibility. But either way, there isn't evidence that he saved the boys life.)
                                                                    • The 11-year-old did it, and he did it by sneaking up from behind, with the 6-year-old unawares.
                                                                    • The 6-year-old kid wasn't allowed to play in the 11-year-old's house, for no apparent reason. They weren't friends.


                                                                    But I am saying that there is enough to look at and that deniers in this thread are certainly motivated by racism. There is a huge difference between, it could be, I just don't know, and it isn't, can't be, and the various predictable knee-jerk reactions of 'first thing someone wants to do is call it racism,' or yeah but the other day several African-Americans did 'xyz' to a 'white guy.'

                                                                    There is no shortage of examples. Sooner or later someone has to just tell the truth.
                                                                    https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBAzGrt?m=en-us

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Legacy View Post
                                                                      The NRA's Struggle to Prove Black Guns Matter

                                                                      Racism relies on stereotyping. The NRA as the protector of Second Amendment rights is based on an underlying mythology that law and order violators and criminals are people of color. The NRA's stated goals of gun ownership unrestrained by registration or regulations will level the playing field for all, and will increase gun ownership among minorities - a situation that may disturb those members who adhere to the racial stereotype.
                                                                      What "mythology"? Are you denying gun violence facts here? It is well known and commonly accepted that there are HUGE differences in gun violence rates and types among gender/racial lines. This isn't "stereotyping," this is empirical fact.

                                                                      https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...ite-americans/

                                                                      Gun deaths among young adult males are 4x higher for black men than white men. Considering only homicides, they're 19 times higher for black males than white males.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • #36
                                                                        Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                        What "mythology"? Are you denying gun violence facts here? It is well known and commonly accepted that there are HUGE differences in gun violence rates and types among gender/racial lines. This isn't "stereotyping," this is empirical fact.

                                                                        https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...ite-americans/

                                                                        Gun deaths among young adult males are 4x higher for black men than white men. Considering only homicides, they're 19 times higher for black males than white males.
                                                                        Yes, the crime and victim rates have a big disparity. I agree. In my state, the black population is 3% overall and 70% of the prison population. This was thrown at us a few times as we lobbied for SYG legislation this year.

                                                                        What we are seeing in the inner cities is a push to give people their rights back. These areas are disproportionately affected by failing gun control policies and people want the right to self-defense. Both of the recent landmark supreme court cases came from DC and Chicago, where guns were effectively banned. Groups like Black Guns Matter (blackgunsmatter – Through the BLACK GUNS MATTER movement we educate and inform urban communities on their 2nd amendment rights and responsibilities.) are promoting self-defense strategies and techniques for people in urban areas as well as educating them about the law.

                                                                        The hope is to deter some of the violence with a better presence of armed neighbors and make people safer who have to live in the neighborhoods where the gun crimes are concentrated. My hope is that this spreads a greater appreciation of our second amendment rights in areas that lean democrat.
                                                                        Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Bogtrotter07 View Post
                                                                          But I am saying that there is enough to look at and that deniers in this thread are certainly motivated by racism.
                                                                          Stop burying things like this in paragraph three of long posts. I want you to say it, clearly and explicitly. Say "wizards8507, you are a racist. BGIF, you are a racist. NDPhilly, you are a racist."

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • #38
                                                                            Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                                                                            What "mythology"? Are you denying gun violence facts here? It is well known and commonly accepted that there are HUGE differences in gun violence rates and types among gender/racial lines. This isn't "stereotyping," this is empirical fact.

                                                                            https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...ite-americans/

                                                                            Gun deaths among young adult males are 4x higher for black men than white men. Considering only homicides, they're 19 times higher for black males than white males.
                                                                            What I mean by "mythology" is the societal creation that helps us understand the culture around us, not the use of the word "myth" used to imply a falsehood. Certainly, gun violence is higher in minority communities, also including Hispanics. It also correlates to gender, to age and poverty. Statistics can be useful in developing resolution of negative impacts on those communities. Some would argue that the prevalence of gun ownership among minorities may be less than in nearby white communities or that whites have a much higher rates of suicides than blacks. We can stop there, which is inherently racial but not necessarily racist. That can lead to different conclusions based on perceptions of the society around us. The NRA, for instance, may see a low gun ownership in certain minority communities as a reason for increasing gun ownership for protection and to decrease violence in that community. Perhaps gun violence is more reflective of poverty and other social factors, but to come to that conclusion you would need to analyze beyond race and gender. Perhaps a young child as a victim of violence or seen a family member victimized by any violence is more inclined possess and use guns like the child in the article first posted and that may be generalized as racial intent. They might then end up contributing to that violence and be part of those statistics based on his or their perceptions. Having created a myth of the young black may combined with the NRAs advocacy of eliminating gun-free zones, including universities, as well as eliminating restrictions on open carry and gun ownership leads to a disproportionate carry of minorities in universities who have been exposed to that violence. The NRA's espousal of "responsible gun ownership" and overwhelmingly white membership may lead minorities to conclude that racial perceptions lead to racist policies or actions that disregard experiences of minority populations in high crime areas or as victims of violence by another race. That's the conundrum illustrated in the article facing the NRA, its white membership and its perception by minority communities having developed a myth about young black males carrying guns as the self-protection they espouse. In my opinion, limiting gun ownership among minorities would be racist.
                                                                            Last edited by Legacy; 05-01-2017, 10:52 AM.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • #39
                                                                              <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We win. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BlackGunsMatter?src=hash">#BlackGunsMatter</a> <a href="https://t.co/7jeAOLSpd8">pic.twitter.com/7jeAOLSpd8</a></p>&mdash; Maj Toure (@MAJTOURE) <a href="https://twitter.com/MAJTOURE/status/859036681701404672">May 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                              <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                              Behold the trending faces of the NRA convention. Colion Noir and Maj Toure are excellent. Dana Loesch isn't pictured, but another one for promoting arms with women.
                                                                              Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • #40
                                                                                Charlottesville

                                                                                Few need reminding of the racism whose evil roots erupt in violence, targeting inidividuals and groups, that are embodied in the KKK and such fringe elements. Certainly, not those familiar with the history of Catholic Notre Dame. 78 years ago: Notre Dame battles the KKKNotre Dame Vs. the Klan: How the Fighting Irish Defeated the Ku Klux Klan (book) . In those days, students and ND were not restrained as in Charlottesville by false allegiances by bigots looking for violence to our Constitution, manipulating Amendments to which they have no commitment. Each of us need only examine our souls to know where we would stand if the Alt-Right would march down Notre Dame Avenue to the campus to celebrate a symbol of evil on our campus - barring the private ownership rights of the university - to know what the near unanimity of the University of Virginia students who stood up against such a disgusting display.
                                                                                Rejecting that hate is a fundamental tenet of a society that protects American values, our democracy, and Christian teaching of tolerance for those who believe differently. Those who espouse white supremacy and the elimination of Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, blacks, other minorities etc, etc. from our society - to which they have no allegiance - need to be isolated, condemned and branded as the terrorists they are and every law enforcement agency needs to prioritize the neutering of them and loudly and unequivocally rejecting their foundation. Their speakers have no place on our campus or anywhere near it and should be dealt with as George Wallace was. Each of us have our family histories choosing almost all coming to America for what the ideals she represents. We've overcome a sad part of our history when, in many cases, families have emerged from not having that choice and were enslaved. Institutions and governments that clearly reject their beliefs, label them as true terrorists and address that abscess of hatred have our confidence and our support. As New Orleans' mayor said:
                                                                                After the Civil War, these statues were a part of that terrorism as much as a burning cross on someone's lawn; they were erected purposefully to send a strong message to all who walked in their shadows about who was still in charge in this city. Should you have further doubt about the true goals of the Confederacy, in the very weeks before the war broke out, the Vice President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, made it clear that the Confederate cause was about maintaining slavery and white supremacy. He said in his now famous 'corner-stone speech' that the Confederacy's "cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
                                                                                WHOSE HERITAGE? PUBLIC SYMBOLS OF THE CONFEDERACY (Southern Poverty Law Center)
                                                                                The Stubborn Persistence of Confederate Monuments
                                                                                How Texas is whitewashing Civil War history

                                                                                We've heard a number of responses to Charlottesville and the Alt-Right from the President on down. Most recently,
                                                                                Jeff Sessions:
                                                                                "We’re going to protect the right to assemble and march and we’re going to prosecute anybody to the fullest extent of the law that violates the right to do so, you can be sure about that."
                                                                                and
                                                                                "The violence and deaths in Charlottesville strike at the heart of American law and justice. When such actions arise from racial bigotry and hatred, they betray our core values and cannot be tolerated.”
                                                                                How would you feel?
                                                                                Last edited by Legacy; 08-14-2017, 12:40 PM.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • #41
                                                                                  To be honest, Ive often struggled with racism and more right view of racism for most of my adult life after going through high school with a best friend (and many other friends) who was/were black. It wasnt that I felt I was radical in any sense but leaned on life experiences that led me to justify in my mind at the time racist ideologies. My excuse was "You wait around long enough here and you will see for yourself". My wife, God bless her, never bought into that and refused to let me as well.

                                                                                  But recently (as in the last two months), I came across something that really changed my views. Something that had been there all along but I had just ignored.

                                                                                  Jesus came to save the black guy just as much as the white guy. And all of us are sinners who fall short of the glory of God. How do we love our neighbor if we are too busy looking at skin color?

                                                                                  Honestly, that was the game changer for me. Im not saying I dont ever feel old seeds creep up but I focus on those words and less of what this world (and my past) tells me.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by Wingman Ray View Post
                                                                                    To be honest, Ive often struggled with racism and more right view of racism for most of my adult life after going through high school with a best friend (and many other friends) who was/were black. It wasnt that I felt I was radical in any sense but leaned on life experiences that led me to justify in my mind at the time racist ideologies. My excuse was "You wait around long enough here and you will see for yourself". My wife, God bless her, never bought into that and refused to let me as well.

                                                                                    But recently (as in the last two months), I came across something that really changed my views. Something that had been there all along but I had just ignored.

                                                                                    Jesus came to save the black guy just as much as the white guy. And all of us are sinners who fall short of the glory of God. How do we love our neighbor if we are too busy looking at skin color?

                                                                                    Honestly, that was the game changer for me. Im not saying I dont ever feel old seeds creep up but I focus on those words and less of what this world (and my past) tells me.
                                                                                    No one is born racist. Its a learned behavior. Jesus has fuck all to do with being racist.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                      No one is born racist. Its a learned behavior. Jesus has fuck all to do with being racist.
                                                                                      don't think he said anything about being born racist... did he?
                                                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                        No one is born racist. Its a learned behavior. Jesus has fuck all to do with being racist.
                                                                                        To a certain extent Cack, I have to disagree with you on this. Xenophobia is almost certainly part of our genetic programming, and for good reason. Look around at countless animal species. They are generally NOT welcoming to any outsider (especially those who look or act differently) and will usually drive them away or kill them. Wolves, lions, chimps, elephants, and countless others come to mind. There are several reasons: scarcity of resources (including food, shelter and mates), the threat of attack from outsiders, diseases brought in by outsiders, threats to the power structure or status of current group members, etc., etc.

                                                                                        Human history has shown that we as a species are no different. In prehistoric times, almost any outsider coming into the tribe was viewed as a threat in one way or another. An outsider would be another mouth to feed, might be bringing in new diseases, would likely compete for mates, or might mean to kill you, and was thus rarely tolerated or welcomed. Xenophobia was a strong survival advantage, and the more xenophobic a person or group was, the better their chances of survival.

                                                                                        Such mistrust and shunning of those who "aren't us and aren't like us" is a trait that cuts across virtually every culture worldwide, which is a VERY strong indication that it's not just a learned behavior, but a genetically programmed one. None of this is to justify racism today, but an explanation of why many people are naturally racist/xenophobic, or why it's likely that racism isn't entirely a learned trait. I think it's probably more likely that NOT being racist is the learned behavior.
                                                                                        Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • #45
                                                                                          Just to be "academic" about this: prehistoric times are defined as times before "history" (i.e. documentation). The only opinions that we can have about the day-to-day attitudes of prehistoric humans are just that: "opinions." There is no data on whether "they" were "racist"/xenophobic or not. Attempting to universalize from modern technologically primitive hunter gatherers finds that tribal customs widely differ between one group and another. The same was true of Native Americans. The peoples of the mid-Asian deserts had a cultural trait of welcoming the stranger, even elaborately; so too is this spoken of in the Bible.

                                                                                          One cannot make the idealistic argument that "Man" is a noble savage, but neither can one make the argument that we are ignoble xenophobes "in the state of nature."

                                                                                          And, just to add an entirely different dimension: computer game contests have shown that the "nasty" self-oriented programs lose the survival contests to the Tit-for-Tat programs and even to the "nice" programs in the end. A better argument can be made for cooperation and neighborliness leading to survival (and certainly to thrival) more so than self-centeredness and violent isolationism.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                                                                                            To a certain extent Cack, I have to disagree with you on this. Xenophobia is almost certainly part of our genetic programming, and for good reason. Look around at countless animal species. They are generally NOT welcoming to any outsider (especially those who look or act differently) and will usually drive them away or kill them. Wolves, lions, chimps, elephants, and countless others come to mind. There are several reasons: scarcity of resources (including food, shelter and mates), the threat of attack from outsiders, diseases brought in by outsiders, threats to the power structure or status of current group members, etc., etc.

                                                                                            Human history has shown that we as a species are no different. In prehistoric times, almost any outsider coming into the tribe was viewed as a threat in one way or another. An outsider would be another mouth to feed, might be bringing in new diseases, would likely compete for mates, or might mean to kill you, and was thus rarely tolerated or welcomed. Xenophobia was a strong survival advantage, and the more xenophobic a person or group was, the better their chances of survival.

                                                                                            Such mistrust and shunning of those who "aren't us and aren't like us" is a trait that cuts across virtually every culture worldwide, which is a VERY strong indication that it's not just a learned behavior, but a genetically programmed one. None of this is to justify racism today, but an explanation of why many people are naturally racist/xenophobic, or why it's likely that racism isn't entirely a learned trait. I think it's probably more likely that NOT being racist is the learned behavior.
                                                                                            I know of no genetic component regarding racism so I am not sure what you are getting at. This post reeks of eugenics and made up BS. I know of no anthropologists or studies that show people are inherently even quasi racist at conception.

                                                                                            Racism is typically introduced in cultures and subsequent cultural upbringing as a learned behavior. Though not all cultures as OMM stated many have cultural practices that promote cooperation and altruism. To go further, racism is but one aspect of cultural actions taken by a majority to suppress a minority. It has zip to do with genetics, it isnt a biological trait but a cultural one and it isnt passed on by sexual or assexual reproduction. Babies dont leave the womb as racists or predisposed to be except into the family unit's cultural rearing they are raised in.
                                                                                            Last edited by Cackalacky; 08-14-2017, 05:26 PM.

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                                                                                            • #47
                                                                                              https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...atural/263785/
                                                                                              There are links to the research in the article.

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                                                                                              • #48
                                                                                                "Racism", as we know it today, is a thoroughly modern phenomena that didn't really exist in the West during the Classical and Medieval periods. Ancient Greeks and Romans certainly discriminated along cultural, religious and linguistic lines-- separating the world between the civilized and the barbaric-- but they didn't much care about something so obviously superficial as skin pigmentation. See Herodotus' descriptions of "Ethiopians" (which basically refers to all sub-Saharan Africans) in his Histories for one good example.

                                                                                                Racism was invented as a post-hoc justification for an economic caste system.

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                                                                                                • #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                                  I know of no genetic component regarding racism so I am not sure what you are getting at. This post reeks of eugenics and made up BS. I know of no anthropologists or studies that show people are inherently even quasi racist at conception.

                                                                                                  Racism is typically introduced in cultures and subsequent cultural upbringing as a learned behavior. Though not all cultures as OMM stated many have cultural practices that promote cooperation and altruism. To go further, racism is but one aspect of cultural actions taken by a majority to suppress a minority. It has zip to do with genetics, it isnt a biological trait but a cultural one and it isnt passed on by sexual or assexual reproduction. Babies dont leave the womb as racists or predisposed to be except into the family unit's cultural rearing they are raised in.
                                                                                                  Facts and evidence couldn't care less about opinions and agendas. You see racism as something evil people do just to be mean or because of a character flaw. I gave you a very sound, easily demonstrable example of how it almost certainly has a strong genetic component that predisposes us or even drives us to practice it. Not a justification for it, but a biological underpinning of it. Similar to a biological explanation of the genetic underpinnings for sexual behavior. If I tell you that the drive to mate sometimes becomes so compelling that people commit rape, that doesn't justify rape nor make it OK nor absolve those who commit it. It just explains the biological forces that contribute to it. Understanding and recognizing those things is very helpful in learning to eliminate the problem.

                                                                                                  Racism is a form of xenophobia: a fear, mistrust or dislike of outsiders or those different from ourselves. There are absolutely some genetic predisposition to such behavior for the simple reason that such behavior has a survival advantage. If you don't think it's a common trait across countless species, drop an ant from one colony into another and see what happens. Put an outside wolf into a pack and see how they treat him. Do it with lions, zebras, dolphins, gorillas, or most especially our closest relative, chimps. Look at a group of kids when a new kid moves to town and starts attending school with them or wants to join them on the playground. Sometimes they're welcoming, but most of the time they can be vicious little xenophobic shits for awhile. It's human nature.

                                                                                                  Genetic and archaeological evidence clearly shows that most (not all, but most) encounters between prehistoric humans typically led to fighting and killing before the groups assimilated with each other (or one wiped the other out). Historic records show much the same in most cases. We are (as are most other species) genetically programmed to be xenophobic. Understanding that, why we're programmed to be that way, how it manifests itself, and what the advantages and disadvantages are can go a long way towards helping people see why it may not be a useful trait any longer and learn to rise above it, as we've learned to rise above many of our other baser instincts as we've become more civilized.
                                                                                                  Last edited by Bishop2b5; 08-14-2017, 06:07 PM.
                                                                                                  Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

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                                                                                                  • #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
                                                                                                    "Racism", as we know it today, is a thoroughly modern phenomena that didn't really exist in the West during the Classical and Medieval periods. Ancient Greeks and Romans certainly discriminated along cultural, religious and linguistic lines-- separating the world between the civilized and the barbaric-- but they didn't much care about something so obviously superficial as skin pigmentation.

                                                                                                    Racism was invented as a post-hoc justification for a caste system created for economic reasons.
                                                                                                    To a great extent, we tend to think of racism in today's America or at least Western civilization as something primarily involving Blacks & Whites, with a few other groups floating around on the fringe in a minor way. I'm speaking more of what would more accurately be termed bigotry or a xenophobic reaction to anyone of a different culture, nationality, religion or such, not just a different race. Our current form of racism is nothing more than a subset of that or its most visible current manifestation in our society today.
                                                                                                    Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

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