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  • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
    I wouldn't say consistency, more like an impressive amount of mental gymnastics.

    What you have been consistent on is thinking that the people on the coasts or in metro areas are lesser Americans. You spelled it out very clearly in the thread.
    Republicans on the coasts are the lesser Americans. If my candidate is going to lose by 30 points, year in and year out - I am substantially more likely to stay home. I have also personally witnessed voter fraud in a major city. Much easier to pull it off in a large anonymous environment than smaller communities. But you will say that never happened because it was not prosecuted - just like none of us ever speed because we would obviously get caught.

    This all points to the issue of how people campaign. Trump was efficient with his money. Which means he spent $0 in California and other totally out of reach states. What mattered was the marginal states - and he killed it there. In a national popular vote that strategy changes substantially and it is a pretty easy concept to understand.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
      no President has ever won the White House while losing the vote from the American people by that much.
      The relevant figure is the percentage figure, and two Presidents have won while losing the popular vote by more than Trump (who lost it by 2.1%). Adams lost the popular vote to Jackson by 10.5% in 1824 and Hayes lost the popular vote to Tilden by 3% in 1876.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NDgradstudent View Post
        The relevant figure is the percentage figure, and two Presidents have won while losing the popular vote by more than Trump (who lost it by 2.1%). Adams lost the popular vote to Jackson by 10.5% in 1824 and Hayes lost the popular vote to Tilden by 3% in 1876.
        #alternativefactsbytheleft

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NDinL.A. View Post
          It's shocking to me that people still believe that Russia didn't try to sway the election, and that they weren't effective at all. Trump won, and I don't think it should be taken away...the Dems didn't deserve to win. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the OBVIOUS signs that point to Russia trying to sway the election for Trump, and the increasingly obvious signs that that the Russians colluded with the Trump campaign during the election.

          I remember when Republicans had stones and used to tell Putin and Russia to fuck off. Ah, the good ol' days. Now we are left with a few non-hypocrites and a bunch of spineless guys I used to respect (Paul Ryan, looking at you) who put their party over their country. Embarrassing.
          Maybe a lot of us don't appreciate the US sticking their nose in other country's elections (cough, Israel, cough) or playing nation builder and such? Kind of pot calling the kettle black here. And if Americans are gullible enough to be swayed by Russians on internet message boards then maybe School Choice doesn't have as much risk as people claim.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by kmoose View Post
            Why not root for him to succeed? You can root for him to succeed, without rooting for all of his policies.
            I would love for Donald Trump to be a successful president, because as you said, that's good for all of us.

            But he's got to put something forward that's worth rooting for, first.

            So far, he's just been regular old Donald Trump. There are some things he's done that *could* be good, but there has been much more to be upset about to this point.

            This is my personal opinion, clearly, so you could easily answer with "but you should be rooting for him to change and do better!" but I'm just trying to answer why people might not be openly rooting for him. He hasn't earned it in many peoples' eyes, yet.
            Last edited by IrishLion; 03-03-2017, 08:52 AM.

            Comment


            • Fan since Vagas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by IrishLion View Post
                I would love for Donald Trump to be a successful president, because as you said, that's good for all of us.

                But he's got to put something forward that's worth rooting for, first.

                So far, he's just been regular old Donald Trump. There are some things he's done that *could* be good, but there has been much more to be upset with him about to this point.

                This is my personal opinion, clearly, so you could easily answer with "but you should be rooting for him to change and do better!" but I'm just trying to answer why people might not be openly rooting for him. He hasn't earned it in many peoples' eyes, yet.
                I'm not talking about people who are not "openly rooting for him". I'm talking about those people who are openly rooting AGAINST him. And there are a lot of them. Keeping jobs in America, speeding up Intel's investment in jobs in Arizona, the stock market at an all time high........... none of these things are worth rooting for?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by IrishLion View Post
                  I would love for Donald Trump to be a successful president, because as you said, that's good for all of us.

                  But he's got to put something forward that's worth rooting for, first.

                  So far, he's just been regular old Donald Trump. There are some things he's done that *could* be good, but there has been much more to be upset about to this point.

                  This is my personal opinion, clearly, so you could easily answer with "but you should be rooting for him to change and do better!" but I'm just trying to answer why people might not be openly rooting for him. He hasn't earned it in many peoples' eyes, yet.
                  His message on immigration and trade is completely aligned with the majority of Americans, regardless of what the media likes to believe. If he makes even moderate economic progress and continues with his America first/economic nationalist approach he'll expand his support base.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                    I've grown to appreciate this thread more lately, recognizing the value of giving a select few an opportunity to live in a fantasy world unconstrained by reason & reality where everything can be made to "prove" their view of things, and to vent & rage to their heart's content instead of yelling at the neighborhood kids, boring their loved ones & coworkers with their fanatical rantings, or shooting up a McDonalds.

                    I agree...in the end, as Paul Ryan said yesterday...he was briefed and the intel people have nothing of consequence in the context of the election.

                    I seriously doubt they have anything in the context of Obama's sanctions, and actual discussions on that topic.

                    What we do have is lies when the truth didn't even sound bad. I'm not going to use the shitstorm the lies cause as justification for the lies. ie...see we lied or kept things back because "they" can't be trusted to be adults, or we need to act now, or whatever other excuse is used. Thats a Democrat tactic...well it used to be...guessing not so much now. I'm tired of the reflexive reaction in DC being lies and secrecy. There was literally no reason for any of these people to be less than frank about their dealings. Had they been honest, would Democrats squeel...Of course they would have said all the same things, and would have been exposed for the sandy Vaginas they are. The lies make all this credible, and the liars and the administration deserves every moment of grief they get. Hell, I won't even ask Democrats to stop for the good of the country...because what is good for the country is that someone learn to live with the Truth in DC.
                    One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                      I've grown to appreciate this thread more lately, recognizing the value of giving a select few an opportunity to live in a fantasy world unconstrained by reason & reality where everything can be made to "prove" their view of things, and to vent & rage to their heart's content instead of yelling at the neighborhood kids, boring their loved ones & coworkers with their fanatical rantings, or shooting up a McDonalds.

                      Yeah... it's almost as weird as an Alabama fan spending 8 hours a day on a Notre Dame football board arguing politics. Who would ever do that?
                      Originally posted by koonja
                      I'm making peace with Woolly in 2017.

                      Comment


                      • Why is no one talking about Pence's email? The dude used an AOL account to get confidential information about national security updates and was hacked in the process. Meanwhile, he is chanting "lock her up" for Clinton doing the exact same thing.

                        nothing?

                        [/crickets]
                        Originally posted by koonja
                        I'm making peace with Woolly in 2017.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                          Yeah... it's almost as weird as an Alabama fan spending 8 hours a day on a Notre Dame football board arguing politics. Who would ever do that?
                          I'm guessing a political discussion on a Bama forum would read something like:

                          "Ding dang dung! Roll Tide!"

                          "Yibida, didbida! War Eagle!"

                          "Sheet! Dale Earnhardt Jr!"

                          "Richard Petty!"

                          "Drain my swamp?! I'm gonna drain ur fukin swamp!"

                          "Skoal pouches are for snowflakes!"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                            Why is no one talking about Pence's email? The dude used an AOL account to get confidential information about national security updates and was hacked in the process. Meanwhile, he is chanting "lock her up" for Clinton doing the exact same thing.

                            nothing?

                            [/crickets]

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                              Why is no one talking about Pence's email? The dude used an AOL account to get confidential information about national security updates and was hacked in the process. Meanwhile, he is chanting "lock her up" for Clinton doing the exact same thing.

                              nothing?

                              [/crickets]
                              He took precautions (supposedly) to ensure that the emails were kept in the public record. So it should be easy to determine if he broke any laws. If it comes out that he was using a non-secure server to send and/or receive classified emails, and there is a law against that, then he should be prosecuted/punished. But I hope that people aren't honestly trying to equate the level of sensitivity of the emails of the US Secretary or State, to sensitivity of the emails of the governor of Indiana.

                              Comment


                              • I am a little confused over the use of the stock market as a rallying point to say Trumps policies are working. The stock market is a proven historical gainer with a couple of hitches in the road. If anything, since Trump has been in power for 1.5 months, you'd have to say it was Obamas policies that have done the trick?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Bluto View Post
                                  I'm guessing a political discussion on a Bama forum would read something like:

                                  "Ding dang dung! Roll Tide!"

                                  "Yibida, didbida! War Eagle!"

                                  "Sheet! Dale Earnhardt Jr!"

                                  "Richard Petty!"

                                  "Drain my swamp?! I'm gonna drain ur fukin swamp!"

                                  "Skoal pouches are for snowflakes!"
                                  Shoal pouches are disgusting. Grizzly Wintergreen or GTFO.
                                  Based Mullet Kid owns

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                    Explain something to me, please? If the Russians were swaying US public opinion in favor of Trump, and that influence turned the election for Trump.......... why were the polls favoring Clinton? On July 27th, 2016; the poll averages showed Trump up 45.7 to 44.6, a 1.1 lead. By Election Day, the poll averages showed Trump LOSING, 47.0 to 43.8. ( RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton ) What seems clear to me is that, even if the Russians tried to sway the election to Trump, they did a crappy job of it. Or else.............. the media was intentionally skewing the polls to make Americans think that Clinton was going to win, so they might as well vote for a winner. In scenario #1, the "meddling" might be important from a precedent standpoint; but it doesn't delegitimize Trump's win at all, because the Russian efforts failed. If scenario #2 is true, then why the hell should we trust what the media is telling us now?
                                    I have given this a great deal of thought. #1) If you say so. #2) You shouldn't if you can't at this point distinguish between Newspeak, overly simple tripe, and researched, grounded, referenced, sourced, information. If you can't do that, you should just carry on, because that is the defining feature of a low-information individual.

                                    Look at the Russians and Donald Trump. Together. The resources have and talents they bear.

                                    I am not intending to promote fact. But I offer a hypothesis that really checks off most of what we saw in the election of 2016.

                                    I am assuming that 2016 was an all out assault by the Russians at the American election after years of working at perfecting the art.

                                    Russians have meddled for years in other elections, (from 1980 West German elections to elections more recently in the low countries.) They have nearly a hundred years of experience manipulating elections in their own country, and satellites. The have as many years of experience in destablizing regimes, and replacing governments.

                                    And because of the nature of the former Russian government, communism, they probably have a better handle on using sociology as an effective tool in producing a desirable election outcome.

                                    the study of social behaviour or society, including its origins, development, organisation, networks, and institutions. It is a social science that uses various methods of empirical investigation and critical analysis to develop a body of knowledge about social order, disorder, and change.
                                    If we look at the reason that polls were so inadequate, we can see the social principles at work in the election, that produced the outcome we've seen.

                                    Remember, however, this outcome without Russian intervention would be attributed to a Manhattan real estate billionaire, with no particular managerial talent. Equally improbable would be the possibility of the Russians influencing our elections, without a fairly substantial mechanism in place supporting them here.

                                    In the 2016 election, the Republicans had no discernible ground game set up compared to the Democrats, yet they were better able to pinpoint voting blocks in certain states key to changing the election outcome, even when the Trump campaign lost the popular vote by the greatest amount in history, by a winning candidate.

                                    What the combination of Trump and the Russians was able to do was find a group to use the principles that the Soviets used to control their population for decades, to influence the American election in 2016.

                                    In looking at the study of conflict theory[1*], we can see that there are certain weaknesses that can be exploited in and electorate, no matter how homogeneous.

                                    A recent articulation of conflict theory is found in Alan Sears' (Canadian sociologist) book A Good Book, in Theory: A Guide to Theoretical Thinking (2008):[17]
                                    • Societies are defined by inequality that produces conflict, rather than which produces order and consensus. This conflict based on inequality can only be overcome through a fundamental transformation of the existing relations in the society, and is productive of new social relations.
                                    • The disadvantaged have structural interests that run counter to the status quo, which, once they are assumed, will lead to social change. Thus, they are viewed as agents of change rather than objects one should feel sympathy for.
                                    • Human potential (e.g., capacity for creativity) is suppressed by conditions of exploitation and oppression, which are necessary in any society with an unequal division of labour. These and other qualities do not necessarily have to be stunted due to the requirements of the so-called "civilizing process," or "functional necessity": creativity is actually an engine for economic development and change.
                                    • The role of theory is in realizing human potential and transforming society, rather than maintaining the power structure. The opposite aim of theory would be the objectivity and detachment associated with positivism, where theory is a neutral, explanatory tool.
                                    • Consensus is a euphemism for ideology. Genuine consensus is not achieved, rather the more powerful in societies are able to impose their conceptions on others and have them accept their discourses. Consensus does not preserve social order, it entrenches stratification, a tool of the current social order.
                                    • The State serves the particular interests of the most powerful while claiming to represent the interests of all. Representation of disadvantaged groups in State processes may cultivate the notion of full participation, but this is an illusion/ideology.
                                    • Inequality on a global level is characterized by the purposeful underdevelopment of Third World countries, both during colonization and after national independence. The global system (i.e., development agencies such as World Bank and International Monetary Fund) benefits the most powerful countries and multi-national corporations, rather than the subjects of development, through economic, political, and military actions.

                                    Although Sears associates the conflict theory approach with Marxism, he argues that it is the foundation for much "feminist, post-modernist, anti-racist, and lesbian-gay liberationist theories."
                                    What Trump did in 2016 is take the portion of white middle America, which had been part of the upper or middle class, that which now was falling behind due to fewer economic opportunities, often because of geographical location, a group that demonstrates markedly less educational success, and identify them, unite them, and fuel them to a high state of arousal for the purpose of voting in this election.

                                    There tools were appealing to nostalgic images of America, including values and mores that were, or are in the process of falling by the wayside. This was clearly indicated by Donald Trump himself. In many rallies, he said, the time is right for this 'movement' now, in four years it may be too late. He was clear in stating that what he wanted to do had to be done now, with the 2016 election. This speaks to the veracity of my argument, but it also speaks to the incredibly sophisticated plan that was enacted to achieve the election result we saw.

                                    Look down the list of major conflict theories. Race/ethnic, gender equality/sexual assault, etc., etc. Everything happened for a reason. And remember, Donald Trump has said there is no such thing as bad press. What were the ingredients?
                                    • Alt-Right movement to Eric Trump deflecting the courtship by saying that a particular individual should get a bullet to the brain.
                                    • The famous sex tape, and following allegations, (yes, I believe the whole thing was orchestrated by the Trump Campaign & Friends.)
                                    • Democratic hacking, and Wikileaks. (It will turn out Julian Assange owed the Russians big time for keeping him safe in a South American Embassy in London, and he paid them back by his part in exposing the hacked email.)
                                    • The Clinton Email server situation is just one aspect of the greatest effort to impeach the reputation of an American political figure, ever undertaken.
                                    Please note : HRC brought her own troubles along, and I certainly don't think she deserved the presidency. And the whole plan only worked as well as it did because of the incredible stupidity of the Democratic Party leadership. However, if the Russians and the Democratic candidate colluded against the Republicans, I think the outcome would have been similar.

                                    And of course the final part about the plan, related to Democrats is the unbelievable luck that the Republicans, Trump, and the Russians had that Joe Biden, seated Vice-President, decided not to run. Had he, there would not have been a contest worthy of note last November, no matter the involvement of the Russians, or who the Republican candidate was.

                                    The successful plan we saw only shaves a point or two, in areas it is primarily focused. Someone, with more time than I have, can compare the state by state expenditures of the campaign chronologically, and you can see how early the Trump Campaign strategy was apparent. All that about turmoil, people getting fired and new people hired was just window dressing.

                                    And of course the other part of the whole regiment was misinformation, and a glut of information. All the lies, still ever present, were all designed to diminish the interest of individuals who could logically process what was going on and could apply critical thinking to the situation. All voting records show that the higher educated groups voted at lower frequency in this election than they have in the past. This is the other key to the election.

                                    In effect through double speak you discourage anyone other than a low information profile individual from getting passionate about the election, and then you start Newspeak to feed them what information you want them to have, i.e., that which further impassions them.
                                    • Lock her up! Lock her up!
                                    • Build a wall!
                                    • Locker room talk!
                                    • Make America Great Again!
                                    • Private email server!
                                    • Laughed at a rape victim!
                                    • Bad hombres! Law and order.


                                    Interestingly enough Trump Newspeak, differed from Orwellian by the fact that the message was oversimplified, not the speech patterns used. Which makes sense.

                                    In fact I am less than a step from believing that the Trump Campaign used the polls in the following way : They knew they could not attract a majority of Americans to vote for them. They knew that the polls were having an increasing trouble locating voters that were going to vote in the 2016 election, that were truthful enough about their demographics to contribute meaningfully to the poll's results. You would be a classic example kmoose. As you make claims to your lack of affiliation to give you a debate advantage on this thread, and with your arguments you so reveal your self as one of the more partial posters, poll companies are totally inundated with people lying about their preferences, to achieve their own agendas.

                                    Trump and his backers new this, and used it, not to falsify the polls, but to send a message to the people they needed to turn out, and send the opposite message to those they wanted to dissuade from showing up at the polls.

                                    Whether my theory is right, the fact of the matter is that public national polls may be almost meaningless. Trump talked about the national polls. But they used only local data in pinpointing what they really wanted.

                                    1* Conflict theories are perspectives in sociology and social psychology that emphasize the social, political, or material inequality of a social group, that critique the broad socio-political system, or that otherwise detract from structural functionalism and ideological conservatism. Conflict theories draw attention to power differentials, such as class conflict, and generally contrast historically dominant ideologies. It is therefore a macro level analysis of society. Karl Marx is the father of the social conflict theory, which is a component of the four paradigms of sociology. Certain conflict theories set out to highlight the ideological aspects inherent in traditional thought. Whilst many of these perspectives hold parallels, conflict theory does not refer to a unified school of thought, and should not be confused with, for instance, peace and conflict studies, or any other specific theory of social conflict.

                                    2* Doublespeak is language that deliberately obscures, disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. Doublespeak may take the form of euphemisms (e.g., "downsizing" for layoffs, "servicing the target" for bombing[1]), in which case it is primarily meant to make the truth sound more palatable. It may also refer to intentional ambiguity in language or to actual inversions of meaning. In such cases, doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth. Doublespeak is most closely associated with political language.


                                    2* Newspeak is the language of Oceania, a fictional totalitarian state ruled by the Party, who created the language to meet the ideological requirements of English Socialism (Ingsoc). In George Orwell's world of Nineteen Eighty-Four, Newspeak is a controlled language, of restricted grammar and limited vocabulary, a linguistic design meant to limit the freedom of thought—personal identity, self-expression, free will—that ideologically threatens the régime of Big Brother and the Party, who thus criminalised such concepts as thoughtcrime, contradictions of Ingsoc orthodoxy.
                                    Last edited by Bogtrotter07; 03-04-2017, 10:43 AM.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                      Shoal pouches are disgusting. Grizzly Wintergreen or GTFO.
                                      Where I grew up the dip of choice was Copenhagen snuff. Anything else and you were a liberal, communist sissy.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Bluto View Post
                                        Where I grew up the dip of choice was Copenhagen snuff. Anything else and you were a liberal, communist sissy.
                                        Copenhagen straight. oh the memories. My first chaw. Copenhagen ain't cheap.

                                        Skoal is for bitches. Copenhagen, Grizzly, Kodiak are all acceptable nowadays. Actual chewing tobacco is acceptable as well, but I don't see many guys chomping on that.

                                        Better dead than red though. Maybe next time I go out and get a tin before going to do hick things, I'll grab some Copenhagen, I ain't no commie.
                                        Based Mullet Kid owns

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                          Copenhagen straight. oh the memories. My first chaw. Copenhagen ain't cheap.

                                          Skoal is for bitches. Copenhagen, Grizzly, Kodiak are all acceptable nowadays. Actual chewing tobacco is acceptable as well, but I don't see many guys chomping on that.

                                          Better dead than red though. Maybe next time I go out and get a tin before going to do hick things, I'll grab some Copenhagen, I ain't no commie.
                                          Might as well pick up a Copenhagen belt buckle too. Speaking of hick things I'm contemplating buying a chainsaw mill and building a small wood kiln. I'm going to have to cut down a few trees to put in a garage and pool. Figured I might as well give making lumber out of them a shot. Merica!

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by phork View Post
                                            I am a little confused over the use of the stock market as a rallying point to say Trumps policies are working. The stock market is a proven historical gainer with a couple of hitches in the road. If anything, since Trump has been in power for 1.5 months, you'd have to say it was Obamas policies that have done the trick?
                                            It's either a reflection of how little Trump understands his job or a reflection of how dishonest his rhetoric is. Maybe both. At the very least, if we're going to credit presidents for the stock market (and I'm not convinced we should) then that suggests Obama was one of the most successful presidents of all time. Which I do think is a defensible position.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                              I disagree. I don't think that multiple members of an incoming administration meeting with the Russian Ambassador to the United States is "smoke". I think it is part of getting acclimated with their position in the government. I think "fake news" is the new "decided schematic advantage", here on IE. It will be forever used as a pejorative, whether it fits and/or is warranted or not.



                                              So the two cannot both be true? He can't have attended the Republican Convention as a member of the Trump campaign, and then taken advantage of the fact that he and the Russian Ambassador were both in the city at the same time, and met with him as a member of the Senate Armed Services committee? I mean, I had a service call at the Akron/Canton(OH) airport last summer. I took the opportunity to see my parents, my sister, my brother, and some nieces and nephews (who all live in North Canton) while I was there. Does that mean that I met them as a representative of my company, and not as their son, brother, and uncle?



                                              I wasn't talking to anyone, really. I was just sharing my thoughts on the subject. I would not be surprised if Trump gets impeached at some point, either. Especially because Democrats will be looking for any and every excuse to bring charges. And there will be plenty of people trying to be first in line for the pitchfork and torch brigade. But here's the thing:

                                              Donald Trump is president of my country; meaning that he is my president. He's your president, too. He's wooly's president; he's Bogtrotter's president; he's Eddy's president, and he's Legacy's president. Why not root for him to succeed? You can root for him to succeed, without rooting for all of his policies. If the Devil in a Pantsuit had won; I would be rooting for her to succeed. It would be begrudging as fuck, but I would still be rooting for her to succeed. Because, in my definition of success: If the president succeeds, that means that you, me, wooly, Legacy, even Bogtrotter; along with a whole lot of other Americans, succeed.
                                              wish Mitch McConnell and the Republicans had felt the same way about Obama last 8 years...just sayin!

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by IrishinSyria View Post
                                                It's either a reflection of how little Trump understands his job or a reflection of how dishonest his rhetoric is. Maybe both. At the very least, if we're going to credit presidents for the stock market (and I'm not convinced we should) then that suggests Obama was one of the most successful presidents of all time. Which I do think is a defensible position.
                                                Unless I'm mistaken Trump hasn't passed a budget yet... so the same policies are in place? I guess he thinks his mere presence has influenced the economy? Or I guess gutting environmental policies helped the economy as a whole? The stock market gains regardless, as it should with inflation, GDP and corporate profits. There would be something seriously wrong if the market wasn't always at or near historic highs.

                                                But remember, the unemployment % was close to 40% according to him during his campaign... uninformed voters are like, WHOA THAT'S CRAZY, damn Obama! Then you look at the numbers and realize that he includes stay at home moms, retired people and people under 18 in that number. It's actually around 4.8% which is awesome compared to where we were a few years ago.

                                                If anything you should thank me for the economy. I have as much influence as he has had. Prove I haven't.

                                                What a piece of work.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                                                  Why is no one talking about Pence's email? The dude used an AOL account to get confidential information about national security updates and was hacked in the process. Meanwhile, he is chanting "lock her up" for Clinton doing the exact same thing.

                                                  nothing?

                                                  [/crickets]
                                                  He's just the VP. Trump is way to much fun for the haters to spend anytime on Pence.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by ClausentoTate View Post
                                                    Unless I'm mistaken Trump hasn't passed a budget yet... so the same policies are in place? I guess he thinks his mere presence has influenced the economy? Or I guess gutting environmental policies helped the economy as a whole? The stock market gains regardless, as it should with inflation, GDP and corporate profits. There would be something seriously wrong if the market wasn't always at or near historic highs.

                                                    But remember, the unemployment % was close to 40% according to him during his campaign... uninformed voters are like, WHOA THAT'S CRAZY, damn Obama! Then you look at the numbers and realize that he includes stay at home moms, retired people and people under 18 in that number. It's actually around 4.8% which is awesome compared to where we were a few years ago.

                                                    If anything you should thank me for the economy. I have as much influence as he has had. Prove I haven't.

                                                    What a piece of work.

                                                    You sound pretty bitter.
                                                    Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Originally posted by ClausentoTate View Post
                                                      I guess he thinks his mere presence has influenced the economy?
                                                      If by "the economy" you mean the stock market, then yes. Policies don't move the market, expectations about the future move the market. It's not about what Trump has done, it's about what investors think he's going to do in the future.

                                                      Google "efficient markets hypothesis" for further reading.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                                                        Why is no one talking about Pence's email? The dude used an AOL account to get confidential information about national security updates and was hacked in the process. Meanwhile, he is chanting "lock her up" for Clinton doing the exact same thing.

                                                        nothing?

                                                        [/crickets]
                                                        Please...explain how those two situations are alike and how the rules that apply to both positions are alike.
                                                        Fan since Vagas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!

                                                        Comment


                                                        • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                                                          Why is no one talking about Pence's email? The dude used an AOL account to get confidential information about national security updates and was hacked in the process. Meanwhile, he is chanting "lock her up" for Clinton doing the exact same thing.

                                                          nothing?

                                                          [/crickets]
                                                          1. Hillary Clinton's e-mail was subject to federal law. Mike Pence's e-mail was subject to State of Indiana law. Hillary Clinton's e-mail violated federal law. Mike Pence's e-mail was in compliance with Indiana law.

                                                          2. Hillary Clinton had a private server in a bathroom. Mike Pence had no such setup.

                                                          3. Mike Pence's e-mails were fully disclosed and retained in accordance with Indiana's Access to Public Records Act. Hillary Clinton wiped her server with BleachBit.

                                                          Do better. Pence and Clinton did not do "the exact same thing." Hillary Clinton broke the law. Mike Pence did not.

                                                          Say it with me: FAKE NEWS!

                                                          Comment


                                                          • <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On CNN, Sen. Dianne Feinstein describes meetings with Russian ambassador. 'I believe he's been in my office from time to time.'</p>&mdash; Byron York (@ByronYork) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/837428035880091648">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                            <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                            <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The last time I was in the Senate dining room, Feinstein was having lunch with the Russsian amb. I never gave it a second thought. <a href="https://t.co/azR0M5LrkK">https://t.co/azR0M5LrkK</a></p>&mdash; Brit Hume (@brithume) <a href="https://twitter.com/brithume/status/837442325500538883">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                            <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                            <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak appeared in the WH visitor logs at least 22 times when Obama was president <a href="https://t.co/eGTkYEVDsy">https://t.co/eGTkYEVDsy</a></p>&mdash; Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) <a href="https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/837519719687196672">March 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                            <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                            <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oopsie! Up to 30 Democrats should resign for meeting with Russian diplomats in 2015<a href="https://t.co/ZEwIouDtro">https://t.co/ZEwIouDtro</a></p>&mdash; Twitchy Team (@TwitchyTeam) <a href="https://twitter.com/TwitchyTeam/status/837341215112712196">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                            <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                            <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Claire McCaskill says she’s had “no call or meeting w/Russian ambassador. Ever.” But she tweeted about two. It’s easy to forget. <a href="https://t.co/kavd29WOg5">pic.twitter.com/kavd29WOg5</a></p>&mdash; Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) <a href="https://twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/837303885664563200">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                            <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                            Boy there sure seems to be an awful lot of smoke here...I am beginning to think there might be some attempts to gain influence between Ds and Russkies

                                                            /crickets
                                                            Fan since Vagas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Re: Pence

                                                              I didn't realize people still had aol accounts.

                                                              make the internet great again!

                                                              Comment


                                                              • Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                Say it with me: FAKE NEWS!
                                                                Faulty logic does not equal fake news. Conservatives would do themselves a HUGE favor if they stopped throwing that phrase around like they get a residual every time someone says or prints it.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                  Faulty logic does not equal fake news. Conservatives would do themselves a HUGE favor if they stopped throwing that phrase around like they get a residual every time someone says or prints it.
                                                                  Faulty logic does equal fake news when the faulty logic leads to deliberately misleading headlines. Most Americans don't read past headlines and Tweets, so the rubes are all thinking Pence = Clinton, when the two cases are really nothing alike.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                    Faulty logic does equal fake news when the faulty logic leads to deliberately misleading headlines. Most Americans don't read past headlines and Tweets, so the rubes are all thinking Pence = Clinton, when the two cases are really nothing alike.
                                                                    No, it doesn't. And you can't blame the people writing the stories because other people don't bother to read the stories. It's probably unethical, but it is not fake news.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • Originally posted by ND NYC View Post
                                                                      wish Mitch McConnell and the Republicans had felt the same way about Obama last 8 years...just sayin!
                                                                      Agreed, unfortunately his vision of "succeeding" is taking away basic freedoms that I believe should exist for everyone. His nationalistic viewpoint is toxic to me. I don't believe that "industries will regulate themselves" by taking away government oversight because anecdotally I haven't seen it (except the FASB, I actually agree with that as an accountant but it developed over 40 years and it didn't stop the financial crisis at all). I think his view of women is antiquated to say the least and defunding public schools is f'ing ridiculous. I'm staunchly against nearly every single policy and appointment he's proposed so far and where there's smoke there's fire on the Russian dealings.

                                                                      Obama had some policies I didn't like (I outright opposed nearly everything to do with the war) but you could at least see that he was trying to help those that needed it. Look at these items, look at where the economy ended up and then tell me his policies didn't work: LINK (warning: liberal bias... but it's merely a list).

                                                                      And this double-talk about how "it's not the illegal actions we should worry about, it's how the public found out!"... wtf is that. These aren't classified documents like Wikileaks. By all means let's justify silencing whistle-blowers on national TV. Fox News last night literally said the Obama administration had no right to document Session's meeting with the Russian ambassador and that they were treasonous for doing so. Seriously, what the hell is that? The GOP wanted to lock Hillary up for the same thing Pence was just found out about (private email servers), where's the outrage?

                                                                      And thinking liberals have no right to be mad or talk down about the president should remember when they accused him of not being a citizen, called Michelle a "monkey", celebrated a woman breaking the law with gay marriage certificates, applauded the terrorist takeover of a government building in Oregon, and outright blocked Obama in the Senate and Congress on a huge number of bills the democrats tried to pass. They started this voting along party lines no matter what crap. The hypocrisy is astounding.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                        No, it doesn't. And you can't blame the people writing the stories because other people don't bother to read the stories. It's probably unethical, but it is not fake news.
                                                                        Bullshit.

                                                                        BREAKING: Woolybug shoots four year old in Michigan wilderness

                                                                        Then in the twelfth paragraph of the article, I mention that the four year old was a white-tailed deer. That's fake news even though TECHNICALLY I didn't "lie" anywhere.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Indiana has had an issue with lawmakers using private emails for years. It&#39;s been the subject of at least two court cases. Courts upheld.</p>&mdash; Casey Hendrickson (@caseythehost) <a href="https://twitter.com/caseythehost/status/837691107182002177">March 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                          <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                          <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">FLASHBACK: Since this is relevant now again.<a href="https://t.co/ZGCM5Ga1K9">https://t.co/ZGCM5Ga1K9</a></p>&mdash; Casey Hendrickson (@caseythehost) <a href="https://twitter.com/caseythehost/status/837689622444531715">March 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                          <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
                                                                          Fan since Vagas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                            1. Hillary Clinton's e-mail was subject to federal law. Mike Pence's e-mail was subject to State of Indiana law. Hillary Clinton's e-mail violated federal law. Mike Pence's e-mail was in compliance with Indiana law.

                                                                            2. Hillary Clinton had a private server in a bathroom. Mike Pence had no such setup.

                                                                            3. Mike Pence's e-mails were fully disclosed and retained in accordance with Indiana's Access to Public Records Act. Hillary Clinton wiped her server with BleachBit.

                                                                            Do better. Pence and Clinton did not do "the exact same thing." Hillary Clinton broke the law. Mike Pence did not.

                                                                            Say it with me: FAKE NEWS!
                                                                            1) The email in question was an update from a federal agency about a federal terrorism arrest. So as usual, you're wrong.

                                                                            2) Yeah, running it through an aol account seems more legit.

                                                                            3) He disclosed that he was using an aol account?

                                                                            You do better. Before the election, you actually were pretty fair, then he got elected and you've reverted back to a mouth breather the first chance you got.
                                                                            Originally posted by koonja
                                                                            I'm making peace with Woolly in 2017.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                              Bullshit.

                                                                              BREAKING: Woolybug shoots four year old in Michigan wilderness

                                                                              Then in the twelfth paragraph of the article, I mention that the four year old was a white-tailed deer. That's fake news even though TECHNICALLY I didn't "lie" anywhere.
                                                                              I read the article. It's not fake news to me.

                                                                              But that doesn't really matter, to the discussion in this thread. wooly isn't a journalist, and didn't write any articles with headlines claiming that the Clinton and Pence email scandals were equal. He made the claim here on this message board. His logic was faulty, but no one is holding his post up as Breaking News......

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • Originally posted by kmoose View Post
                                                                                I read the article. It's not fake news to me.

                                                                                But that doesn't really matter, to the discussion in this thread. wooly isn't a journalist, and didn't write any articles with headlines claiming that the Clinton and Pence email scandals were equal. He made the claim here on this message board. His logic was faulty, but no one is holding his post up as Breaking News......
                                                                                Sure thing, I wasn't calling Wooly's post fake news, I was calling lots of the misleading headlines that are out there fake news.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • Originally posted by woolybug25 View Post
                                                                                  1) The email in question was an update from a federal agency about a federal terrorism arrest. So as usual, you're wrong.

                                                                                  2) Yeah, running it through an aol account seems more legit.

                                                                                  3) He disclosed that he was using an aol account?

                                                                                  You do better. Before the election, you actually were pretty fair, then he got elected and you've reverted back to a mouth breather the first chance you got.
                                                                                  To be fair....... terrorism arrests aren't necessarily classified material. In fact, if the information was already released to the press, then it's a non-issue at all.

                                                                                  He's not required to disclose he is using an aol account, although that will be obvious to anyone who sees the address that the email came from. He's only required to make sure that those emails are retained as part of the public record, which no one is accusing him of NOT doing.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                                                                    Copenhagen straight. oh the memories.
                                                                                    Just the thought of Copenhagen makes my stomach churn. I dipped occasionally in HS. The first day of finals my junior year, I had a dip before school and forgot I had it as I went off to my first exam. About 30 minutes in I was sweating, nauseated, and feeling like hell when a bit broke loose and I realized the problem. I bolted out of the classroom and threw up twice running down the hall and once on the bathroom door before offering the rest of my breakfast as a sacrifice to the Great Ceramic God. Never dipped or chewed again and the smell of the stuff still bothers me.
                                                                                    Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • any old timers here remember the aol "chat rooms" haha

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • Originally posted by ND NYC View Post
                                                                                        any old timers here remember the aol "chat rooms" haha
                                                                                        I still meet my lady friends there.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • If simply not liking something makes it "fake", my mother in law has been fake now for close to a decade.

                                                                                          If there are emails to take her down, I'd take the first Russian I could find and bathe him in vodka to make it happen.
                                                                                          It is no coincidence that the growth of modern tyrants has in every case been heralded by the growth of prejudice.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • Originally posted by ND NYC View Post

                                                                                            I didn't realize people still had aol accounts.

                                                                                            make the internet great again!
                                                                                            Well ... I do. Not an account, really, but I do still use my AOL mail account.

                                                                                            AOL was pretty much the only game in town when I started using the internet in the '80s.

                                                                                            Over the years I changed ISPs but hung onto my original AOL user name and mail account. It was much easier than trying to remember who to give my new e-mail address. There's no forwarding address option in the Web World.

                                                                                            The AOL e-mail service has been free for many years now.

                                                                                            I'm a lazy-ass-old-fart-cheapskate.


                                                                                            [I do have an account through nd.edu, but I use it sparingly for a limited number of things]

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • Arrest in JCC bomb threats just reported. No evidence of any connection to Trump campaign or follower.

                                                                                              Man accused of making threats against Jewish community centers arrested in St. Louis - ABC News

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • Originally posted by ND NYC View Post
                                                                                                any old timers here remember the aol "chat rooms" haha
                                                                                                Why yes, yes I do.

                                                                                                I actually met a few people IRL that are friends to this day.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • Originally posted by connor_in View Post
                                                                                                  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On CNN, Sen. Dianne Feinstein describes meetings with Russian ambassador. 'I believe he's been in my office from time to time.'</p>&mdash; Byron York (@ByronYork) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/837428035880091648">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                  <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The last time I was in the Senate dining room, Feinstein was having lunch with the Russsian amb. I never gave it a second thought. <a href="https://t.co/azR0M5LrkK">https://t.co/azR0M5LrkK</a></p>&mdash; Brit Hume (@brithume) <a href="https://twitter.com/brithume/status/837442325500538883">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                  <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak appeared in the WH visitor logs at least 22 times when Obama was president <a href="https://t.co/eGTkYEVDsy">https://t.co/eGTkYEVDsy</a></p>&mdash; Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) <a href="https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/837519719687196672">March 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                  <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oopsie! Up to 30 Democrats should resign for meeting with Russian diplomats in 2015<a href="https://t.co/ZEwIouDtro">https://t.co/ZEwIouDtro</a></p>&mdash; Twitchy Team (@TwitchyTeam) <a href="https://twitter.com/TwitchyTeam/status/837341215112712196">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                  <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Claire McCaskill says she’s had “no call or meeting w/Russian ambassador. Ever.” But she tweeted about two. It’s easy to forget. <a href="https://t.co/kavd29WOg5">pic.twitter.com/kavd29WOg5</a></p>&mdash; Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) <a href="https://twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/837303885664563200">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                  <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                  Boy there sure seems to be an awful lot of smoke here...I am beginning to think there might be some attempts to gain influence between Ds and Russkies

                                                                                                  /crickets
                                                                                                  Senator Schumer should immediately resign! /Olbermann

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                  • Originally posted by MJ12666 View Post
                                                                                                    Arrest in JCC bomb threats just reported. No evidence of any connection to Trump campaign or follower.

                                                                                                    Man accused of making threats against Jewish community centers arrested in St. Louis - ABC News
                                                                                                    Juan Thompson considered minor player in the whole thing, (small fraction of the threats. none of the vandalism.)

                                                                                                    He did it giving an ex's name to cause her problems, and is a considered a copycat.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                    • Originally posted by connor_in View Post
                                                                                                      <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On CNN, Sen. Dianne Feinstein describes meetings with Russian ambassador. 'I believe he's been in my office from time to time.'</p>&mdash; Byron York (@ByronYork) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/837428035880091648">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                      <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                      <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The last time I was in the Senate dining room, Feinstein was having lunch with the Russsian amb. I never gave it a second thought. <a href="https://t.co/azR0M5LrkK">https://t.co/azR0M5LrkK</a></p>&mdash; Brit Hume (@brithume) <a href="https://twitter.com/brithume/status/837442325500538883">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                      <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                      <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak appeared in the WH visitor logs at least 22 times when Obama was president <a href="https://t.co/eGTkYEVDsy">https://t.co/eGTkYEVDsy</a></p>&mdash; Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) <a href="https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/837519719687196672">March 3, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                      <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                      <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oopsie! Up to 30 Democrats should resign for meeting with Russian diplomats in 2015<a href="https://t.co/ZEwIouDtro">https://t.co/ZEwIouDtro</a></p>&mdash; Twitchy Team (@TwitchyTeam) <a href="https://twitter.com/TwitchyTeam/status/837341215112712196">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                      <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                      <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Claire McCaskill says she’s had “no call or meeting w/Russian ambassador. Ever.” But she tweeted about two. It’s easy to forget. <a href="https://t.co/kavd29WOg5">pic.twitter.com/kavd29WOg5</a></p>&mdash; Charles C. W. Cooke (@charlescwcooke) <a href="https://twitter.com/charlescwcooke/status/837303885664563200">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
                                                                                                      <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                                                                                      Boy there sure seems to be an awful lot of smoke here...I am beginning to think there might be some attempts to gain influence between Ds and Russkies

                                                                                                      /crickets
                                                                                                      These are really big strawmen. The problem is not that Sessions met with the Russians so much as it is that he PERJURED himself.

                                                                                                      Comment

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