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  • Five Lawyers on Trump’s Defense Team Leave Shortly Before Trial Is to Begin
    The departures come a little over a week before the former president’s Senate trial is set to begin.
    (NYT)

    Former President Donald J. Trump has abruptly parted ways with five lawyers handling his impeachment defense, just over a week before the Senate trial is set to begin, people familiar with the situation said on Saturday.

    Those departures include his lead lawyer, Butch Bowers, whose hiring was announced last week, a person familiar with the situation said. Four other lawyers who were reported to be joining, including Deborah Barbier, a criminal defense lawyer in South Carolina, are also leaving, according to multiple people familiar with the situation. (cont)
    He likes to fire people. What's new? :)
    Last edited by Legacy; 01-31-2021, 12:36 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
      Trump lied a lot and seemed to enjoy fighting with the media. Thats not a secret and a chunk of it was very much a creation of his own. Then again, there is no profession that deserves to be shit on and belittled more than them other than maybe some of the hokey college professors.

      I'm too young to *really* remember Bush's dealings with the media, but he's a very likable guy, and I'm sure he got treated better than Donald did.

      The best way I've seen anyone discuss Democrat dealings with the press is Ben Rhodes, was he a national security council guy or something?

      Anyway, he straight up bragged about how easy it was to feed his talking points to young dumb reporters who'd basically create an echo chamber because it all seemed great to them.

      Its not a secret that journalists are largely devoted Democrats. If you let me interview Jerome Bettis, or Brady Quinn, or Brian Kelly, chances are that I'll take much of what they say as established dogma unless it's really egregious. ("Actually we beat SC in '05.").

      I recall seeing tweets from journos after the election celebrating that they will have an easier job now. I don't see why that would be the case. For the journal at school, I find it hatder to fix/edit/ check the accuracy of well written and footnoted articles than ones that are blatantly wrong. Essentially, it's easy to miss mistakes or incorrect assertions when you assume they are correct.

      My favorite takes on liberal media generally come from Glenn Greenwald. Everyone has their token member of the opposite side they like but I think he generally does a good job articulating problems with American journalism.
      It is absolutely undeniable that the media, on the whole, has a significant slant towards the left. It has been that way since I have been alive. And it used to drive me batshit crazy when I volunteered for Kilgore and McDonnell because you started every engagement from a defensive position. When you're canvassing in Northern Virginia you're having conversations with people whose primary source of information was the Washington Post that got delivered to their house daily. Generally speaking, we were only knocking on the doors of registered Republicans and we were supposed to just tell them where we were from and remind them to vote. But we often got people who said "thanks but I'm voting for the other guy" and 99% of the time if they volunteered why it was something that could be traced back to a WaPo article or opinion piece written with a negative slant. The other side NEVER had to deal with that shit.

      Mainstream media has moved even further to the left since then... most notably at CNN and flagship newspapers like WaPo... but all of this pales in comparison to what has become commonplace on social media. These establishment news sources become more obsolete year-by-year as Americans trend further and further towards getting their "news" from social media. And the Right has been absolutely dominating on Facebook, Youtube, etc. for awhile now.

      Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post
      We are in the honeymoom period. Once the smell of moth balls and the presidents inability to complete a coherent sentence catches up to the press and their hatred of Trump tires I could see the media turning on him. Biden is the ugly rebound that just happened to be at the right place at the right time.
      I feel like the left aligned media secretly loved Trump. He was their golden goose. It has never been easier to generate clicks/ratings than it was when you just had to grab the latest Trump "outrage" and make it the story du jour.

      I would imagine that the Biden-media relationship will get more frosty after his first 100 days, because that's typically the pattern. Trump was unique in that he didn't get his first 100 days "honeymoon"... but then again, he literally campaigned on sticking it to the media and constantly called them "fake news" before-and-after being inaugurated, so it's hard to imagine a scenario where it wasn't going to be an openly hostile relationship both ways.

      One complicating factor for Biden will be how early he announces he won't seek a second term, because when he does there will be a groundswell from the Left media to lionize and send him off into the sunset as a conquering hero who's main accomplishment was beating Trump rather than how most presidents are judged on what transpired during their term rather than before it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
        It is absolutely undeniable that the media, on the whole, has a significant slant towards the left. It has been that way since I have been alive. And it used to drive me batshit crazy when I volunteered for Kilgore and McDonnell because you started every engagement from a defensive position. When you're canvassing in Northern Virginia you're having conversations with people whose primary source of information was the Washington Post that got delivered to their house daily. Generally speaking, we were only knocking on the doors of registered Republicans and we were supposed to just tell them where we were from and remind them to vote. But we often got people who said "thanks but I'm voting for the other guy" and 99% of the time if they volunteered why it was something that could be traced back to a WaPo article or opinion piece written with a negative slant. The other side NEVER had to deal with that shit.

        Mainstream media has moved even further to the left since then... most notably at CNN and flagship newspapers like WaPo... but all of this pales in comparison to what has become commonplace on social media. These establishment news sources become more obsolete year-by-year as Americans trend further and further towards getting their "news" from social media. And the Right has been absolutely dominating on Facebook, Youtube, etc. for awhile now.



        I feel like the left aligned media secretly loved Trump. He was their golden goose. It has never been easier to generate clicks/ratings than it was when you just had to grab the latest Trump "outrage" and make it the story du jour.
        I like the anecdote you were able to provide. Not only because it sorta reinforces my worldview. I think it played a large role in where we are at now. Obviously it's bigger than that as well, but a big part of it.

        Take your experience in... the center of political nonsense out there. Now think of rural VA. Then go further and further west. The national media types try to explain it away by saying "wow these guys are extreme." Some are, no doubt.

        But when you create a national media where they are so clearly bad, people will adjust accordingly. Social media has wrecked people too.. But they did get pushed to seek out what they perceived as fair. People don't abandon a comfort zone unless there is an external pressure...like shitty news.

        So when those clowns on the major news networks wonder what went wrong...they have no one to blame but themselves. The sources some non-libs now seek now are largely a creation of their own. Its like Wells Fargo complaining that people in Fargo now bank at a local institution.

        The GOP goes into battle every day fighting on the back foot like you said. Playing 10/12 games a season on the road sucks. The GOP isn't great by any means, but when people are constantly reading that you are monsters...what is expected? Constantly gaslighting people for long enough has consequences. Good or bad. Left or right.
        Based Mullet Kid owns

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
          I can go online and find 100 questions the press has asked that were throw-away softball question. Hell, Trump packed the room with OAN and FoxNews reporters who would ask pitch them softballs. One dumb question does not a pattern make.
          It's the conservative pattern in politics.

          Complain about liberal media slant while fueling your own echo chambers with propaganda softballs from OAN and Fox News.

          It just needs to be repeated that viewers of Fox News, when researched, knew less about the world around them than people who watched NO NEWS AT ALL.

          If conservatives want to have a conversation about their treatment from "the media," the first thing they need to do is have a conversation about the batshit diet they feed their own followers that is slowly driving them insane.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BilboBaggins View Post
            It's the conservative pattern in politics.

            Complain about liberal media slant while fueling your own echo chambers with propaganda softballs from OAN and Fox News.

            It just needs to be repeated that viewers of Fox News, when researched, knew less about the world around them than people who watched NO NEWS AT ALL.

            If conservatives want to have a conversation about their treatment from "the media," the first thing they need to do is have a conversation about the batshit diet they feed their own followers that is slowly driving them insane.
            Being the party of anti-intellectualism has consequences.

            Comment


            • The underlying themes of complaints about left-leaning MSM boil down to a victimization and the assumption that some group other than the complainers are being influenced by MSM. We've had posters who conclude that all those on the left are sheep or zombies. Give people some credit to make up their own minds and consult their sources.

              The problem of disinformation I see is social media.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BilboBaggins View Post
                It's the conservative pattern in politics.

                Complain about liberal media slant while fueling your own echo chambers with propaganda softballs from OAN and Fox News.

                It just needs to be repeated that viewers of Fox News, when researched, knew less about the world around them than people who watched NO NEWS AT ALL.

                If conservatives want to have a conversation about their treatment from "the media," the first thing they need to do is have a conversation about the batshit diet they feed their own followers that is slowly driving them insane.
                This should tell us all we need to know.

                He antagonized our allies and coddled our enemies, ignored a pandemic, built internment camps, sympathized with Nazis, fomented an insurrection and used our institutions to cover up his crimes. lied to the public 33,000 times. That anyone complains that he was covered unfairly blows my mind. Virtually every day of his presidency he ignored norms (or laws) and he was bombastic, even obnoxious, about it. He sought negative coverage so he could complain about how unfair it was.
                Last edited by GoIrish41; 01-31-2021, 01:31 PM.

                Comment


                • Duplicate post

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                    This should tell us all we need to know.

                    He antagonized our allies and coddled our enemies, ignored a pandemic, built internment camps, sympathized with Nazis, fomented an insurrection and used our institutions to cover up his crimes. lied to the public 33,000 times. That anyone complains that he was covered unfairly blows my mind. Virtually every day of his presidency he ignored norms (or laws) and he was bombastic, even obnoxious, about it. He sought negative coverage so he could complain about how unfair it was.
                    Still less emails than Wonder woman clinton deleted....

                    Who are our allies and who are our enemys?
                    Once we truly come together as a family, nothing can stop us. Itís my job to make sure we become that family.Ē

                    Comment


                    • Lol his legal team left 9 days before trial because he believes the election was stolen.
                      Man oh man.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by goldandblue View Post
                        Still less emails than Wonder woman clinton deleted....

                        Who are our allies and who are our enemys?
                        Lol

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BilboBaggins View Post
                          It's the conservative pattern in politics.

                          Complain about liberal media slant while fueling your own echo chambers with propaganda softballs from OAN and Fox News.

                          It just needs to be repeated that viewers of Fox News, when researched, knew less about the world around them than people who watched NO NEWS AT ALL.

                          If conservatives want to have a conversation about their treatment from "the media," the first thing they need to do is have a conversation about the batshit diet they feed their own followers that is slowly driving them insane.
                          There was "research" during the 2018 midterms that two thirds of democrat voters believed that the Russians switched votes from Hillary to Donald in the 2016. I know there are a lot of idiots out there, but I'm generally of the belief that a lot of shocking polling and "research" done is basically trash.

                          In a perfect world, OAN and Newsmax wouldn't exist, but its absolutely insane when people pretend that CNN or NBC just "slant left." Don Lemon and Rachel Maddow would be the two that come to mind. Joy Reid...the lady who claimed time travelers hacked her blog from 15 years ago to make it homophobic, has a prime time show.

                          I've asked family members to not trust the "news" they find on Facebook or whatever. I've told me mother to avoid the clowns like Candace Owens that pop into her feed. I'm completely with you guys that it is bad.

                          But if I look around a law school classroom and see people on their phones.. they are reading some NowThis article about Brett Kavanaugh being a gangrapist and Clarence Thomas being a sexual predator. Or they'll be reading some looney Palmer Report shit. Or a Maddow column spreading her latest Russia theory. I dont see how that is really any better than my mom listening to Dan Bongino talk about whatever goofy thing he's ranting about.

                          Journalism is a broken field. Like Lax said, im sure they secretly loved Donald because he made their job very easy. But they suck at their jobs, even the fact checkers are pretty terrible. If they were better at their jobs, I think people wouldn't abandon them for some tinfoil hat on the internet.

                          All that said, the media isn't going to probably change much and Republicans really do need to try to fix these folks whose brains got put into a microwave. I'd like to see Mitch put his foot down. Get Cotton, Cruz, Hawley and some of them to do it too.

                          And pump money into a primary challenger to get rid of Gaetz. And Boebert. And that GA lady. If our weirdos are guys like Thomas Massie, or Justin Amash, we will be just fine.
                          Based Mullet Kid owns

                          Comment


                          • <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">21 men told me John Weaver, a Lincoln Project cofounder, sent them inappropriate messages, including explicit offers of professional help in exchange for sex. 11 of them spoke on the record ó far more than I could detail in one article. w/ <a href="https://twitter.com/dannyhakim?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dannyhakim</a> <a href="https://t.co/agnfQZubW5">https://t.co/agnfQZubW5</a></p>&mdash; Maggie Astor (@MaggieAstor) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaggieAstor/status/1355895162942214145?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                            <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This statement by the <a href="https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ProjectLincol n</a> is an absolute lie. <br><br>Members did know. Young men approached them about the accusations. Members knew I was writing the story and warned John Weaver <a href="https://t.co/BZms5iLgpL">pic.twitter.com/BZms5iLgpL</a></p>&mdash; Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) <a href="https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1355921510532325376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                            hmmm but wait weren't Dems supposed to be the sleazy ones?
                            What did Davonte do?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post
                              It is absolutely undeniable that the media, on the whole, has a significant slant towards the left. It has been that way since I have been alive. And it used to drive me batshit crazy when I volunteered for Kilgore and McDonnell because you started every engagement from a defensive position. When you're canvassing in Northern Virginia you're having conversations with people whose primary source of information was the Washington Post that got delivered to their house daily. Generally speaking, we were only knocking on the doors of registered Republicans and we were supposed to just tell them where we were from and remind them to vote. But we often got people who said "thanks but I'm voting for the other guy" and 99% of the time if they volunteered why it was something that could be traced back to a WaPo article or opinion piece written with a negative slant. The other side NEVER had to deal with that shit.

                              Mainstream media has moved even further to the left since then... most notably at CNN and flagship newspapers like WaPo... but all of this pales in comparison to what has become commonplace on social media. These establishment news sources become more obsolete year-by-year as Americans trend further and further towards getting their "news" from social media. And the Right has been absolutely dominating on Facebook, Youtube, etc. for awhile now.
                              I think that is true in that particular market however, progressives in rural areas have had to deal with the craziest of crazy right wing talk radio for a couple decades. I brought this up before with another poster and it was dismissed with the wave of a hand but according to a wiki search Rush Limbaugh has 15 million listeners a week. The extremes of the right have dominated that market for decades and in many ways right wing talk radio set the table for what we are seeing now.
                              Last edited by Bluto; 01-31-2021, 03:07 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dublinirish View Post
                                <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">21 men told me John Weaver, a Lincoln Project cofounder, sent them inappropriate messages, including explicit offers of professional help in exchange for sex. 11 of them spoke on the record ó far more than I could detail in one article. w/ <a href="https://twitter.com/dannyhakim?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dannyhakim</a> <a href="https://t.co/agnfQZubW5">https://t.co/agnfQZubW5</a></p>&mdash; Maggie Astor (@MaggieAstor) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaggieAstor/status/1355895162942214145?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This statement by the <a href="https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ProjectLincol n</a> is an absolute lie. <br><br>Members did know. Young men approached them about the accusations. Members knew I was writing the story and warned John Weaver <a href="https://t.co/BZms5iLgpL">pic.twitter.com/BZms5iLgpL</a></p>&mdash; Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) <a href="https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1355921510532325376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

                                hmmm but wait weren't Dems supposed to be the sleazy ones?
                                Sleeziness in a bipartisan trait. Not surprising coming from Lincoln Project types though. They've sorta proven they'll do just about anything for money.
                                Based Mullet Kid owns

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                  There was "research" during the 2018 midterms that two thirds of democrat voters believed that the Russians switched votes from Hillary to Donald in the 2016. I know there are a lot of idiots out there, but I'm generally of the belief that a lot of shocking polling and "research" done is basically trash.

                                  n a perfect world, OAN and Newsmax wouldn't exist, but its absolutely insane when people pretend that CNN or NBC just "slant left." Don Lemon and Rachel Maddow would be the two that come to mind. Joy Reid...the lady who claimed time travelers hacked her blog from 15 years ago to make it homophobic, has a prime time show.
                                  MSNBC and CNN viewers registered barely above people who watched no news at all.

                                  I don't think anyone here is standing up for CNN/MSNBC Prime Time coverage. In fact MSNBC was pretty honest when they said they wanted to do to the Left what Fox News did to the Right. They also failed miserably.

                                  The big difference in my view is that Fox News is the most viewed channel in America and is widely-considered one-stop shopping for conservatives.

                                  Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                  I've asked family members to not trust the "news" they find on Facebook or whatever. I've told me mother to avoid the clowns like Candace Owens that pop into her feed. I'm completely with you guys that it is bad.

                                  But if I look around a law school classroom and see people on their phones.. they are reading some NowThis article about Brett Kavanaugh being a gangrapist and Clarence Thomas being a sexual predator. Or they'll be reading some looney Palmer Report shit. Or a Maddow column spreading her latest Russia theory. I dont see how that is really any better than my mom listening to Dan Bongino talk about whatever goofy thing he's ranting about.
                                  I'm too busy playing that drinking game known as the "Devil's Triangle" to research a full response here.I don't have any respect for Kavanaugh, gang raper or not, after the guy pretty blatantly lied to Congress.

                                  Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                  Journalism is a broken field. Like Lax said, im sure they secretly loved Donald because he made their job very easy. But they suck at their jobs, even the fact checkers are pretty terrible. If they were better at their jobs, I think people wouldn't abandon them for some tinfoil hat on the internet.

                                  All that said, the media isn't going to probably change much and Republicans really do need to try to fix these folks whose brains got put into a microwave. I'd like to see Mitch put his foot down. Get Cotton, Cruz, Hawley and some of them to do it too.

                                  And pump money into a primary challenger to get rid of Gaetz. And Boebert. And that GA lady. If our weirdos are guys like Thomas Massie, or Justin Amash, we will be just fine.
                                  I would agree that Cable journalism is dead.

                                  But I'll still stand by my point that conservatives, by and large, are enormous hypocrites when they complain about liberal bias in media after Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin spent decades making people crazy. After Glenn Beck hypnotized millions during the Tea Party era, etc etc etc. The conservative media landscape has very few outlets worth a shit, so they have no leg to stand on, basically.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                    This should tell us all we need to know.

                                    He antagonized our allies and coddled our enemies, ignored a pandemic, built internment camps, sympathized with Nazis, fomented an insurrection and used our institutions to cover up his crimes. lied to the public 33,000 times. That anyone complains that he was covered unfairly blows my mind. Virtually every day of his presidency he ignored norms (or laws) and he was bombastic, even obnoxious, about it. He sought negative coverage so he could complain about how unfair it was.
                                    I laughed out loud. Can't believe you forgot racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc. Should've just said we had Hitler running the country for 4 years. What a joke lol
                                    The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                                      I laughed out loud. Can't believe you forgot racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc. Should've just said we had Hitler running the country for 4 years. What a joke lol
                                      Why would you laugh at that? Did he not threaten to pull out of NATO or praise Putin and ignore the murder of a Washington Post journalist. Did he not say he was in love with Kim Jong Un and insult Angela Merle at every opportunity? His ďstrategy to bridge the gap between the time he knew about the virus and a vaccine was stop travel from China and hope for the best. ďDonít wear a mask and gather in large groups to praise me.Ē

                                      Have you got a better name for the camps he built to house children taken from their parents than internment camps? There ainít no Irish kids in them. And I know youíll say that the both sides comment was about a f*cking statue but you also probably think the civil war was about stateís rights, too, so I didnít expect much. You assume everyone should be as obtuse as you and if they arenít you throw out a dumb insult and never discuss why it is thatís so funny as inciting an insurrection.

                                      And IIf you canít understand why someone would conclude that he used the power of the oval to commit crimes and hide the evidence, I canít help you. Heís been impeached for it twice now, and it still remains to be seen if the GOP Senators will actually consider what happened and not hide behind some gutless process argument, again, or cut their ties with this bigot and pop the bubble that you keep bumping against.

                                      Tell me, do you think if the Capitol was actually seized and politicians murdered Trump would have condemned them or sought to use the circumstances to solidify power? If you think otherwise you simply were not paying attention to what was happening. Oh, and I didnít mention the other stuff because they are so obvious, at this point that they are barely worth the effort to argue about.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                        Why would you laugh at that? Did he not threaten to pull out of NATO or praise Putin and ignore the murder of a Washington Post journalist. Did he not say he was in love with Kim Jong Un and insult Angela Merle at every opportunity? His ďstrategy to bridge the gap between the time he knew about the virus and a vaccine was stop travel from China and hope for the best. ďDonít wear a mask and gather in large groups to praise me.Ē

                                        Have you got a better name for the camps he built to house children taken from their parents than internment camps? There ainít no Irish kids in them. And I know youíll say that the both sides comment was about a f*cking statue but you also probably think the civil war was about stateís rights, too, so I didnít expect much. You assume everyone should be as obtuse as you and if they arenít you throw out a dumb insult and never discuss why it is thatís so funny as inciting an insurrection.

                                        And IIf you canít understand why someone would conclude that he used the power of the oval to commit crimes and hide the evidence, I canít help you. Heís been impeached for it twice now, and it still remains to be seen if the GOP Senators will actually consider what happened and not hide behind some gutless process argument, again, or cut their ties with this bigot and pop the bubble that you keep bumping against.

                                        Tell me, do you think if the Capitol was actually seized and politicians murdered Trump would have condemned them or sought to use the circumstances to solidify power? If you think otherwise you simply were not paying attention to what was happening. Oh, and I didnít mention the other stuff because they are so obvious, at this point that they are barely worth the effort to argue about.
                                        1. The camps thing is bipartisan. No one cared or said anything when Obama engaged in the same behavior. The pictures they used to show how terrible it was predated Donald Trump even announcing he was running for office.

                                        2. The "both sides" thing was among the most aggregious media hit jobs on Donald. He said in the same quote something along the lines of "im not talking about the neonazis and white supremacists."

                                        If I say "The SEC cheats" and later in the same post say "not Vanderbilt though, those guys are totally above board," no one here's takeaway would be "wow NoDak thinks that Vanderbilt cheats!"

                                        That was really dumb, always gets my blood boiling when I think about how the media handled it.
                                        Based Mullet Kid owns

                                        Comment


                                        • Comment


                                          • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                            1. The camps thing is bipartisan. No one cared or said anything when Obama engaged in the same behavior. The pictures they used to show how terrible it was predated Donald Trump even announcing he was running for office.

                                            2. The "both sides" thing was among the most aggregious media hit jobs on Donald. He said in the same quote something along the lines of "im not talking about the neonazis and white supremacists."

                                            If I say "The SEC cheats" and later in the same post say "not Vanderbilt though, those guys are totally above board," no one here's takeaway would be "wow NoDak thinks that Vanderbilt cheats!"

                                            That was really dumb, always gets my blood boiling when I think about how the media handled it.
                                            1. Even though I think this is a BS argument, I’m not talking about the “cages.” There were no camps before Trump. I’m talking about the camps that were built to house thousands of children taken from their parents with no attempt to reconnect them ... just a fat payday for the private prison industry.

                                            2. There were Nazis marching down the street with Home Depot’s entire inventory of tiki torches chanting Jews will not replace us. The next day a woman was run over by a White supremacist. Two cops monitoring events from the air crashed and died. All of this happened in the 24 hours prior to his remarks. Is your argument that he wasn’t trying to sound like a racist sympathizer, that somehow what he said we should accept from a president following violence in the streets? Because the only thing that the media did was hit play on the recording of him speaking on the topic. Anything anyone said from either side is irrelevant. We all saw it. I share the position of the majority of Americans who heard him. That’s why the media argument is such garbage in my view. By and large we heard HIS spoken words, or written on Twitter. I don’t give a damn what ANY media thinks about anything. We were told incessantly that you have to understand the subtext when Trump speaks. Seems weird that the same people argue against it in this case.
                                            Last edited by GoIrish41; 01-31-2021, 07:27 PM.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                              1. Even though I think this is a BS argument Iím not talks about the ďcages.Ē There were no camps. Iím talking about the camps that were built to house thousands of children with no attempt to find their parents.

                                              2. There were Nazis marching down the street with Home Depotís entire inventory of tiki torches chanting Jews will not replace us. The next day a woman was run over by a White supremacist. All of this happened in the 24 hours prior to his remarks. Is your argument that he wasnít trying to sound like a racist sympathizer, that somehow what he said what we should accept from a president following violence in the streets? Because the only thing that the media did was hit play on the recording of him speaking on the topic. Anything anyone said from either side is irrelevant. We all saw it. I share the position of the majority of Americans who heard him. Thatís why the media argument is such garbage in my view. By and large we heard HIS spoken words, or written on Twitter. I donít give a damn what ANY media thinks about anything.
                                              It doesn't matter if there were Nazis there. He says directly in the quote that he wasn't talking about them.

                                              Its one thing to take an ambiguous quote and run with "OMG TRUMP SUPPORTED THE NAZIS" if he doesn't specifically single them out as people he isn't referring to, but that's not how it went.

                                              you have some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me -- I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
                                              Then some more discussion....he brings up Washington and Jefferson.. then this quote:

                                              Are we going to take down the statue? Because he was a major slave owner. Now, are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? Itís fine. Youíre changing history. Youíre changing culture. And you had people, and Iím not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists.
                                              It wasn't a controversial thing to say. It wasn't a bad thing to say. The media did a shitty job there.

                                              If you read that quote, and your takeaway is "he thinks Nazis are good," then you are beyond help. If you want to point to other things he said and draw that conclusion, thats one thing. But that quote's context is pretty clear "some good people were there that are being demonized. No, not the nazis, they are bad."
                                              Based Mullet Kid owns

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by dublinirish View Post

                                                hmmm but wait weren't Dems supposed to be the sleazy ones?
                                                The only way to win in politics is to not play. They all have skeletons in the closet, some are just bigger than others.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                                  It doesn't matter if there were Nazis there. He says directly in the quote that he wasn't talking about them.

                                                  Its one thing to take an ambiguous quote and run with "OMG TRUMP SUPPORTED THE NAZIS" if he doesn't specifically single them out as people he isn't referring to, but that's not how it went.



                                                  Then some more discussion....he brings up Washington and Jefferson.. then this quote:



                                                  It wasn't a controversial thing to say. It wasn't a bad thing to say. The media did a shitty job there.

                                                  If you read that quote, and your takeaway is "he thinks Nazis are good," then you are beyond help. If you want to point to other things he said and draw that conclusion, thats one thing. But that quote's context is pretty clear "some good people were there that are being demonized. No, not the nazis, they are bad."
                                                  The night before people were outraged by the tiki torch Nazis chanting in the streets. White supremacists showed up in riot gear. Absolutely nobody thought that statue had one thing to do with the events that unfolded. Is your argument that he is comically out of touch with reality? There were white nationalist fighting anti-fascists in the street. What does that have to do with a statement of a dead traitor? The idea that he tried the make anyone believe that’s what he was talking about is an insult to the collective intelligence of all Americans and only serves to distract from the ACTUAL events and those who participated.

                                                  But if your argument was that he is such a bad communicator that the news every day of his presidency revolves around him explaining what he meant by yesterday’s crock of shit that fell out mouth you’d be half way to my side. And if you conclude as I have that he lies so much you can’t possibly know when he’s being honest when he says “Not the Nazis and white nationalists. ” Understand that these remarks were not made in a vacuum, or as an answer to a question. They were made because he recognized after his original statements just how inadequate they were, temarks that he himself understood were not accepted by the majority of Americans. He had been saying and doing racist shit since long before he ever campaigned for president. When a president has to say Nazis are bad, there is usually something terribly wrong with that person ... because of course they are, every American can surely agree on that. Alas, maybe not.
                                                  Last edited by GoIrish41; 01-31-2021, 08:53 PM.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • https://twitter.com/donwinslow/statu...368623107?s=21


                                                    If this is a real document ...... oof.
                                                    Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 02-01-2021, 08:38 AM.
                                                    "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                      The night before people were outraged by the tiki torch Nazis chanting in the streets. White supremacists showed up in riot gear. Absolutely nobody thought that statue had one thing to do with the events that unfolded. Is your argument that he is comically out of touch with reality? There were white nationalist fighting anti-fascists in the street. What does that have to do with a statement of a dead traitor? The idea that he tried the make anyone believe thatís what he was talking about is an insult to the collective intelligence of all Americans and only serves to distract from the ACTUAL events and those who participated.

                                                      But if your argument was that he is such a bad communicator that the news every day he of his presidency, revolves around him explaining what he meant by yesterdayís crock of shit that fell out mouth youíd be half way to my side. And if you conclude as I have that he lies so much you canít possibly know when heís being honest when he says ďNot the Nazis and white nationalists. Ē Understand that these remarks were not made in a vacuum, or as an answer to a question. They were made because he recognized after his original statements just how inadequate they were, temarks that he himself understood were not accepted by the majority of Americans. He had been saying and doing racist shit since long before he ever campaigned for president. When a president has to say Nazis are bad, there is usually something terribly wrong with that person ... because of course they are, every American can surely agree on that. Alas, maybe not.
                                                      I'm sure he understood people were upset by the dudes with the torches and that a girl got killed. But it was 1000% related to the statue. Thats why they were there if I recall. Donald is specifically talking about the statue, he mentions statues of Washington and Jefferson. So whether you think the events were related to the statues or not, Donald certainly did judging by his statement.

                                                      So looking at his quote, its clear he is pretty locked in on the statue and the idea of tearing them down. He's talking about changing history and all that. He says there are very fine people on both sides of the issue of leaving a statue or taking it down peacefully making a political statement.

                                                      My argument isn't that he is a bad communicator that needs the media to help him out. It's that they blatantly ignored what he said, and clipped it to make him look bad.

                                                      If he has said good things about Nazis, then use those words/tweets/statements, because this one is pretty clearly not a positive statement towards Nazis.

                                                      For all the dumb shit Donald has said, I've never understood some people's willingness to claim he said Nazis are fine people. Its not an ambiguous statement.

                                                      If I say I went to high school with good people, and later on say, "not Michael though. Dude is an asshole," you are straight up lying to yourself and others if you go around saying "NoDak claims Michael is a good guy."
                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                      Comment


                                                      • This thread has some of the best comic relief I've had in a quite a while.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                                                          The only way to win in politics is to not play. They all have skeletons in the closet, some are just bigger than others.
                                                          "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                          Comment


                                                          • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                            Why would you laugh at that? Did he not threaten to pull out of NATO or praise Putin and ignore the murder of a Washington Post journalist. Did he not say he was in love with Kim Jong Un and insult Angela Merle at every opportunity? His ďstrategy to bridge the gap between the time he knew about the virus and a vaccine was stop travel from China and hope for the best. ďDonít wear a mask and gather in large groups to praise me.Ē

                                                            Have you got a better name for the camps he built to house children taken from their parents than internment camps? There ainít no Irish kids in them. And I know youíll say that the both sides comment was about a f*cking statue but you also probably think the civil war was about stateís rights, too, so I didnít expect much. You assume everyone should be as obtuse as you and if they arenít you throw out a dumb insult and never discuss why it is thatís so funny as inciting an insurrection.

                                                            And IIf you canít understand why someone would conclude that he used the power of the oval to commit crimes and hide the evidence, I canít help you. Heís been impeached for it twice now, and it still remains to be seen if the GOP Senators will actually consider what happened and not hide behind some gutless process argument, again, or cut their ties with this bigot and pop the bubble that you keep bumping against.

                                                            Tell me, do you think if the Capitol was actually seized and politicians murdered Trump would have condemned them or sought to use the circumstances to solidify power? If you think otherwise you simply were not paying attention to what was happening. Oh, and I didnít mention the other stuff because they are so obvious, at this point that they are barely worth the effort to argue about.
                                                            I laughed because we haven't seen internment camps since the 1940's and the president was a Democrat, and as already pointed out you didn't give a damn when Obama did the same thing. The main difference is that those were American citizens and the ones you're talking about are not. I'll skip that one and the Nazi sympathizer one because North Dakota already chopped you down on those.

                                                            He coddled our enemies??? You're delusional. There were no negative consequences of Trump reaching out to N Korea and trying to bring that little psycho to the table. And I'm sure the Middle East peace deal that was brokered was to benefit our enemies, right?

                                                            I know for sure Trump didn't send Iran a plane full of American cash (Obama) or use shady deals with China to increase his income (Biden).

                                                            On Covid: He shut down travel from China and people like you called him a racist. Everyone who went to his rallies (mask or no mask) did so with free will.

                                                            Capitol: 74 million people voted for Trump, and a few nutjobs did that on their own accord. It was a sad day in American history and they'll face the justice system as they should.
                                                            The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                              https://twitter.com/donwinslow/statu...368623107?s=21


                                                              If this is a real document ...... oof.
                                                              To summarize, Chris Miller, a Trump appointee (appointed after firing of Esper) specifically:

                                                              -denies requests for DCNG to mobilize
                                                              -denies them use of their own equipment
                                                              -denies them use of other law enforcement equipment
                                                              -denies them the abilities to interact with protestors
                                                              -denies them ability to employ helicopters or other air assets,
                                                              -denies them ability to conduct search and seizure or other law enforcement acts
                                                              -denies them ability to seek support from any non DCNG law enforcement agency.
                                                              -states that DCNG General reports directly to him

                                                              His authorization is referenced here:
                                                              Executive Order 11485--Supervision and control of the National Guard of the District of Columbia

                                                              Source: The provisions of Executive Order 11485 of Oct. 1, 1969, appear at 34 FR 15411, 15443, 3 CFR, 1966-1970 Comp., p. 813, unless otherwise noted.

                                                              By virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States and the National Guard of the District of Columbia under the Constitution and laws of the United States, including section 6 of the Act of March 1, 1889, 25 Stat. 773 (District of Columbia Code, sec. 39-112), and section 110 of title 32 and section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:

                                                              Section 1. The Secretary of Defense, except as provided in section 3, is authorized and directed to supervise, administer and control the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard of the District of Columbia (hereinafter "National Guard") while in militia status. The Commanding General of the National Guard shall report to the Secretary of Defense or to an official of the Department of Defense designated by the Secretary on all matters pertaining to the National Guard. Through the Commanding General, the Secretary of Defense shall command the military operations, including training, parades and other duty, of the National Guard while in militia status. Subject to the direction of the President as Commander-in-Chief, the Secretary may order out the National Guard under title 39 of the District of Columbia Code to aid the civil authorities of the District of Columbia.

                                                              Sec. 2. The Attorney General is responsible for: (1) advising the President with respect to the alternatives available pursuant to law for the use of the National Guard to aid the civil authorities of the District of Columbia; and (2) for establishing after consultation with the Secretary of Defense law enforcement policies to be observed by the military forces in the event the National Guard is used in its militia status to aid civil authorities of the District of Columbia.

                                                              Sec. 3. The Commanding General and the Adjutant General of the National Guard will be appointed by the President. The Secretary of Defense, after consultation with the Attorney General, shall at such times as may be appropriate submit to the President recommendations with respect to such appointments.

                                                              Sec. 4. The Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General are authorized to delegate to subordinate officials of their respective Departments any of the authority conferred upon them by this order.

                                                              Sec. 5. Executive Order No. 10030 of January 26, 1949, is hereby superseded."]Executive Orders
                                                              Executive Order 11485--Supervision and control of the National Guard of the District of Columbia

                                                              Source: The provisions of Executive Order 11485 of Oct. 1, 1969, appear at 34 FR 15411, 15443, 3 CFR, 1966-1970 Comp., p. 813, unless otherwise noted.

                                                              By virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States and the National Guard of the District of Columbia under the Constitution and laws of the United States, including section 6 of the Act of March 1, 1889, 25 Stat. 773 (District of Columbia Code, sec. 39-112), and section 110 of title 32 and section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:

                                                              Section 1. The Secretary of Defense, except as provided in section 3, is authorized and directed to supervise, administer and control the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard of the District of Columbia (hereinafter "National Guard") while in militia status. The Commanding General of the National Guard shall report to the Secretary of Defense or to an official of the Department of Defense designated by the Secretary on all matters pertaining to the National Guard. Through the Commanding General, the Secretary of Defense shall command the military operations, including training, parades and other duty, of the National Guard while in militia status. Subject to the direction of the President as Commander-in-Chief, the Secretary may order out the National Guard under title 39 of the District of Columbia Code to aid the civil authorities of the District of Columbia.

                                                              Sec. 2. The Attorney General is responsible for: (1) advising the President with respect to the alternatives available pursuant to law for the use of the National Guard to aid the civil authorities of the District of Columbia; and (2) for establishing after consultation with the Secretary of Defense law enforcement policies to be observed by the military forces in the event the National Guard is used in its militia status to aid civil authorities of the District of Columbia.

                                                              Sec. 3. The Commanding General and the Adjutant General of the National Guard will be appointed by the President. The Secretary of Defense, after consultation with the Attorney General, shall at such times as may be appropriate submit to the President recommendations with respect to such appointments.

                                                              Sec. 4. The Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General are authorized to delegate to subordinate officials of their respective Departments any of the authority conferred upon them by this order.

                                                              Sec. 5. Executive Order No. 10030 of January 26, 1949, is hereby superseded.
                                                              I distinctly remember people tying to blame Pelosi for this. Another piece of evidence that this attack was going to happen and was aided and abetted by Trump's allies. I wonder who instructed Miller to issue these orders?
                                                              Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 02-01-2021, 09:03 AM.
                                                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                              Comment


                                                              • The left has some serious talent at digging and parading misdoings. The right needs to recruit that talent and point it at Cumou, Harris, Pelosi, AOC, etc.

                                                                Because there is some gold content on the other side but for whatever reason, the rightists don't seem to waste their time. Not sure that's good or bad.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Originally posted by IrishRazor82 View Post
                                                                  The left has some serious talent at digging and parading misdoings. The right needs to recruit that talent and point it at Cumou, Harris, Pelosi, AOC, etc.

                                                                  Because there is some gold content on the other side but for whatever reason, the rightists don't seem to waste their time. Not sure that's good or bad.
                                                                  Yeah, they should get that guy who banged his cousin to help them out. Heard he's a tremendous lawyer and fact finder.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                                                                    I laughed because we haven't seen internment camps since the 1940's and the president was a Democrat, and as already pointed out you didn't give a damn when Obama did the same thing. The main difference is that those were American citizens and the ones you're talking about are not. I'll skip that one and the Nazi sympathizer one because North Dakota already chopped you down on those.

                                                                    He coddled our enemies??? You're delusional. There were no negative consequences of Trump reaching out to N Korea and trying to bring that little psycho to the table. And I'm sure the Middle East peace deal that was brokered was to benefit our enemies, right?

                                                                    I know for sure Trump didn't send Iran a plane full of American cash (Obama) or use shady deals with China to increase his income (Biden).

                                                                    On Covid: He shut down travel from China and people like you called him a racist. Everyone who went to his rallies (mask or no mask) did so with free will.

                                                                    Capitol: 74 million people voted for Trump, and a few nutjobs did that on their own accord. It was a sad day in American history and they'll face the justice system as they should.
                                                                    Really? What crime are those in the camps being charged with? Or are they being held without an intent to charge them? You may want to look up the definition of internment camp. Internment is the confinement for political or military reasons. Since none of these kids seemed to be packing when they were pulled from their mothersí arms, letís just acknowledge that they were held for political reasons, which makes the camps created for this incarceration ďinternment camps.Ē It has nothing to do with citizenship.

                                                                    People like me called him a racist for the China travel ban ... but not me. Isnít that the same as assuming all Trump supporters are racist? Everything me who spread Covid by gathering in large groups without masks, also did so with free will. Should they be charged when reckless endangerment or would they, like the Capitol insurrectionists, rightfully blame Trump for their callous disregard for the health and safety of others?

                                                                    Hundreds of people stormed the Capitol, and thousands (maybe millions) supported and still support the actions. Itís the same nutjobs who were in Charlottesville, and cheered as the president teargassed peaceful protestors for a photo shoot. You want to lump all Democrats in with the kooks on the left but draw a hard line when anyone suggest that it works both ways. That makes you a hypocrite. And saying after the fact that they deserve to face the justice system ignores that youíve been excusing illegal behavior in this administration for four years and gloated every time Trump got away with his crimes.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">David Schoen, Trump&#39;s new impeachment attorney who has also represented Roger Stone, told Fox News he didn&#39;t think Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.<a href="https://t.co/P2cH8E9uwT">https://t.co/P2cH8E9uwT</a></p>&mdash; Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) <a href="https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1356031627571449856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 1, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
                                                                      What did Davonte do?

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post


                                                                        If this is a real document ...... oof.
                                                                        Seems pretty blah to me. This looks like standard guidance. It wasn't a secret that the guard was unarmed even in the security theater display after the 1/6 protest. This is how you prevent usta-serves with zero law enforcement training from creating a Kent State massacre.

                                                                        I'd be willing to bet they have similar orders in almost every other unrest type event. The National Guard is not the grand security force some of these idiots in the media seem to think they are. They are a deterrent and logistical support for actual law enforcement. They are also stage props for incoming administration trying to dunk on the outgoing admin.
                                                                        Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                          Seems pretty blah to me. This looks like standard guidance. It wasn't a secret that the guard was unarmed even in the security theater display after the 1/6 protest. This is how you prevent usta-serves with zero law enforcement training from creating a Kent State massacre.

                                                                          I'd be willing to bet they have similar orders in almost every other unrest type event. The National Guard is not the grand security force some of these idiots in the media seem to think they are. They are a deterrent and logistical support for actual law enforcement. They are also stage props for incoming administration trying to dunk on the outgoing admin.
                                                                          I admit I have not seen or read any actual NG orders of deployment before but IMO this seems irregular as Miller specifically and severely limits their capabilities (much more so than when I have seen NG deployed for protests and riots in the past. The NG in any state is always armed/protected during protests, and has generally been a support role for the local LEO. They are essentially armed peacekeepers and support local LEO when enacted. In this instance the DC MP asked for assistance from the DCNG. The DCNG was essentially made unarmed bystanders becasue of this order, thereby making assistance to DCMP virtually nil. The DCMP and Capitol Police asked for the DCNG to support in maintaining order well before the protests started and basically received traffic cops.

                                                                          FTR I live in a hurricane prone region and during evacuations and post storm assistance, the NG are always armed, always in protective gear and always allowed to enforce laws regarding public safety.
                                                                          Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 02-01-2021, 10:06 AM.
                                                                          "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                            I admit I have not seen or read any actual NG orders of deployment before but IMO this seems irregular as Miller specifically and severely limits their capabilities (much more so than when I have seen NG deployed for protests and riots in the past. The NG in any state is always armed/protected during protests, and has generally been a support role for the local LEO. They are essentially armed peacekeepers and support local LEO when enacted. In this instance the DC MP asked for assistance from the DCNG. The DCNG was essentially made unarmed bystanders becasue of this order, thereby making assistance to DCMP virtually nil. The DCMP and Capitol Police asked for the DCNG to support in maintaining order well before the protests started and basically received traffic cops.

                                                                            FTR I live in a hurricane prone region and during evacuations and post storm assistance, the NG are always armed, always in protective gear and always allowed to enforce laws regarding public safety.
                                                                            Armed with an empty mag, maybe. You may be surprised. I know many of my former vet friends who are still in the guard and they rarely touch live ammo. I know the ones who went to Ferguson and did flood response had empty mags as they were frustrated at the time.
                                                                            Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • It's true that National Guardsmen usually don't carry their guns at all, and especially not loaded with live rounds; but it is possible that they do so if the "intelligence" associated with the assignment is considered grave enough to warrant it. The Secretary of the Army said exactly that this is what they are looking into as to whether to allow loaded carries, or unloaded carries but on person ammo, in the task force associated with protecting the Capital.

                                                                              The issue is therefore not whether National Guardsmen typically carry loaded weapons, but whether Homeland Security etc intelligence has information which reaches a serious enough level for that to be ordered. IF they are carrying live rounds, then that means that the intel would have been deemed serious and credible. The question is: were they carrying live ammo or not in any of these scenarios?

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                                                                It's true that National Guardsmen usually don't carry their guns at all, and especially not loaded with live rounds; but it is possible that they do so if the "intelligence" associated with the assignment is considered grave enough to warrant it. The Secretary of the Army said exactly that this is what they are looking into as to whether to allow loaded carries, or unloaded carries but on person ammo, in the task force associated with protecting the Capital.

                                                                                The issue is therefore not whether National Guardsmen typically carry loaded weapons, but whether Homeland Security etc intelligence has information which reaches a serious enough level for that to be ordered. IF they are carrying live rounds, then that means that the intel would have been deemed serious and credible. The question is: were they carrying live ammo or not in any of these scenarios?
                                                                                I can't think of a situation where they should. We don't need an armed NG patrolling our streets unless they are in total chaos.
                                                                                Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                • Apparently Homeland and the FBI have better intel than you can imagine. Why not be happy that they are smarter?

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                                                    Really? What crime are those in the camps being charged with? Or are they being held without an intent to charge them? You may want to look up the definition of internment camp. Internment is the confinement for political or military reasons. Since none of these kids seemed to be packing when they were pulled from their mothersí arms, letís just acknowledge that they were held for political reasons, which makes the camps created for this incarceration ďinternment camps.Ē It has nothing to do with citizenship.

                                                                                    People like me called him a racist for the China travel ban ... but not me. Isnít that the same as assuming all Trump supporters are racist? Everything me who spread Covid by gathering in large groups without masks, also did so with free will. Should they be charged when reckless endangerment or would they, like the Capitol insurrectionists, rightfully blame Trump for their callous disregard for the health and safety of others?

                                                                                    Hundreds of people stormed the Capitol, and thousands (maybe millions) supported and still support the actions. Itís the same nutjobs who were in Charlottesville, and cheered as the president teargassed peaceful protestors for a photo shoot. You want to lump all Democrats in with the kooks on the left but draw a hard line when anyone suggest that it works both ways. That makes you a hypocrite. And saying after the fact that they deserve to face the justice system ignores that youíve been excusing illegal behavior in this administration for four years and gloated every time Trump got away with his crimes.
                                                                                    2014 called and is trying to find your outrage at foreigners being held in cages by US law enforcement. Donald Trump didn't create internment camps. These detention centers have been in place for years at our border. But by reading your post, Trump pulled his best Hitler, sent his SS guards, rounded up the brown folks, ripped the children from their mothers' arms, and is keeping them in camps until their liberators arrive. Twisted.

                                                                                    lol at charging people with a crime who gathered in large crowds. Tell me how that one holds up in court.

                                                                                    I haven't excused any illegal behavior for anyone, but I can laugh at your desperate attempts to portray the guy as some sort of third world dictator while Biden is on executive order number 42.
                                                                                    The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                                                                                      2014 called and is trying to find your outrage at foreigners being held in cages by US law enforcement. Donald Trump didn't create internment camps. These detention centers have been in place for years at our border. But by reading your post, Trump pulled his best Hitler, sent his SS guards, rounded up the brown folks, ripped the children from their mothers' arms, and is keeping them in camps until their liberators arrive. Twisted.

                                                                                      lol at charging people with a crime who gathered in large crowds. Tell me how that one holds up in court.

                                                                                      I haven't excused any illegal behavior for anyone, but I can laugh at your desperate attempts to portray the guy as some sort of third world dictator while Biden is on executive order number 42.
                                                                                      You are wrong, as you so often are. He built a massive camp in Texas for this specific purpose ó internment. You know, the camps you said didnít exist in your last post. Now Obama built them. You are a f*ing joke.

                                                                                      Trump signed 291 executive orders in 4 years and not a peep! Ridiculous!

                                                                                      And yes, all those things are as true as they are twisted. Watching them happen and excusing them ... thatís gross.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                                                        You are wrong, as you so often are. He built a massive camp in Texas for this specific purpose ó internment. You know, the camps you said didnít exist in your last post. Now Obama built them. You are a f*ing joke.

                                                                                        Trump signed 291 executive orders in 4 years and not a peep! Ridiculous!

                                                                                        And yes, all those things are as true as they are twisted. Watching them happen and excusing them ... thatís gross.
                                                                                        I know liberals like to invent facts, but this is so easily searchable. UCSB attributes only 220 to Trump. Biden hasn't even been in office two weeks and he's more than 10% there.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • Originally posted by MNIrishman View Post
                                                                                          I know liberals like to invent facts, but this is so easily searchable. UCSB attributes only 220 to Trump. Biden hasn't even been in office two weeks and he's more than 10% there.
                                                                                          My bad, you are right. It was W who signed 291, not Trump, and Leppy didn’t bitch about either of them and their incessant use of exec orders. I wonder how come?
                                                                                          Last edited by GoIrish41; 02-01-2021, 09:10 PM.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                                                            My bad, you are right. It was W who signed 291, not Trump, and Leppy didnít bitch about either of them and their incessant use of exec orders. I wonder how come?
                                                                                            Everyone (I hope) should understand that the pace of executive orders is going to decline. But just for entertainment purposes....here is the top 10 presidents on executive orders per year (Biden is based on his current pace)

                                                                                            1. Biden - 702
                                                                                            2. FDR - 308
                                                                                            3. Hoover - 242
                                                                                            4. Wilson - 225
                                                                                            5. Harding - 217
                                                                                            6. Coolidge - 215
                                                                                            7. Taft - 181
                                                                                            8. Teddy Bear - 145
                                                                                            9. Truman - 117
                                                                                            10. Carter - 80

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • Originally posted by MNIrishman View Post
                                                                                              I know liberals like to invent facts, but this is so easily searchable. UCSB attributes only 220 to Trump. Biden hasn't even been in office two weeks and he's more than 10% there.
                                                                                              As opposed to conservatives ignoring them ?


                                                                                              :)
                                                                                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                                                                                                Everyone (I hope) should understand that the pace of executive orders is going to decline. But just for entertainment purposes....here is the top 10 presidents on executive orders per year (Biden is based on his current pace)

                                                                                                1. Biden - 702
                                                                                                2. FDR - 308
                                                                                                3. Hoover - 242
                                                                                                4. Wilson - 225
                                                                                                5. Harding - 217
                                                                                                6. Coolidge - 215
                                                                                                7. Taft - 181
                                                                                                8. Teddy Bear - 145
                                                                                                9. Truman - 117
                                                                                                10. Carter - 80
                                                                                                You missed a zero on FDRís total.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                                                                  You missed a zero on FDRís total.
                                                                                                  Those are per year, not in total. His total was well above 3K, but he also had the benefit of more time.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post
                                                                                                    Those are per year, not in total. His total was well above 3K, but he also had the benefit of more time.
                                                                                                    Gotcha. I spoke about total executive orders and you changed up on me. :)

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                                                      I admit I have not seen or read any actual NG orders of deployment before but IMO this seems irregular as Miller specifically and severely limits their capabilities (much more so than when I have seen NG deployed for protests and riots in the past. The NG in any state is always armed/protected during protests, and has generally been a support role for the local LEO. They are essentially armed peacekeepers and support local LEO when enacted. In this instance the DC MP asked for assistance from the DCNG. The DCNG was essentially made unarmed bystanders becasue of this order, thereby making assistance to DCMP virtually nil. The DCMP and Capitol Police asked for the DCNG to support in maintaining order well before the protests started and basically received traffic cops.

                                                                                                      FTR I live in a hurricane prone region and during evacuations and post storm assistance, the NG are always armed, always in protective gear and always allowed to enforce laws regarding public safety.
                                                                                                      Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                                                      Armed with an empty mag, maybe. You may be surprised. I know many of my former vet friends who are still in the guard and they rarely touch live ammo. I know the ones who went to Ferguson and did flood response had empty mags as they were frustrated at the time.
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                                                                                      It's true that National Guardsmen usually don't carry their guns at all, and especially not loaded with live rounds; but it is possible that they do so if the "intelligence" associated with the assignment is considered grave enough to warrant it. The Secretary of the Army said exactly that this is what they are looking into as to whether to allow loaded carries, or unloaded carries but on person ammo, in the task force associated with protecting the Capital.

                                                                                                      The issue is therefore not whether National Guardsmen typically carry loaded weapons, but whether Homeland Security etc intelligence has information which reaches a serious enough level for that to be ordered. IF they are carrying live rounds, then that means that the intel would have been deemed serious and credible. The question is: were they carrying live ammo or not in any of these scenarios?
                                                                                                      Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                                                      I can't think of a situation where they should. We don't need an armed NG patrolling our streets unless they are in total chaos.
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                                                                                      Apparently Homeland and the FBI have better intel than you can imagine. Why not be happy that they are smarter?
                                                                                                      Typically the weapon is not loaded as already stated. Carrying ammo is not the real issue. It's the order to load your weapon that is the key.

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