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  • This is entertaining. Everyone agrees that Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found guilty. Cack says the drugs and his physical health played no contributing factor. NorthD says they contributed to some extent. Neither argument makes him more guilty or less guilty.

    Judge: Members of the jury, have you reached a verdict?
    Foreman: We have your honor.
    Judge: What say your jury?
    Foreman: Because he was under the influence of narcotics, we find the defendant only 75% guilty.

    As I stated before he should have been sat up once he was restrained and he deserves what he got. Yet, to think the drugs and his physical condition didn't have an effect is being short sighted. It doesn't lessen Chauvin's guilt and it doesn't mean the knee on the neck didn't kill him, but George Floyd was under the influence and his body wasn't functioning properly.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TorontoGold View Post

      Pretty crass to chide someone's mother-in-law's death, to simp for Derek Chauvin.
      Please note my shocked face
      "From Chaos comes Clarity"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
        This is entertaining. Everyone agrees that Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found guilty. Cack says the drugs and his physical health played no contributing factor. NorthD says they contributed to some extent. Neither argument makes him more guilty or less guilty.

        Judge: Members of the jury, have you reached a verdict?
        Foreman: We have your honor.
        Judge: What say your jury?
        Foreman: Because he was under the influence of narcotics, we find the defendant only 75% guilty.

        As I stated before he should have been sat up once he was restrained and he deserves what he got. Yet, to think the drugs and his physical condition didn't have an effect is being short sighted. It doesn't lessen Chauvin's guilt and it doesn't mean the knee on the neck didn't kill him, but George Floyd was under the influence and his body wasn't functioning properly.
        For arguments sake can you Please define what a properly functioning body is? If I was on a normal blood thinner prescription that caused my me to not be able to uptake oxygen as efficiently would that make any difference at all relative to an illicit drug?
        "From Chaos comes Clarity"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
          Everyone agrees that Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found guilty.
          Nah.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post

            NYPD needs a contract with Khabib Nurmagamedov and Georges St. Pierre. I haven't trained for wrestling in over a decade but I've still been able to restrain belligerent drunk friends on a few occasions (obviously not the same but you get the point).

            Joking aside, more training would be good. But that does take more money, and probably more standards that many police can't meet.

            In some places, simply paying better might help? I know our local PD gets paid peanuts but I've also seen that some larger city PD's pay pretty well.

            Yup, more training and better training. Anecdotally, it's been working in driving down police shootings and excessive force complaints. For too long, police departments have been getting the wrong kind of training and it has just recently started going the other direction. This is an example of why the culture in certain police departments is toxic --

            Like this dude founded a group called "Killology" and he's out here training people to "protect and serve."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

              Yup, more training and better training. Anecdotally, it's been working in driving down police shootings and excessive force complaints. For too long, police departments have been getting the wrong kind of training and it has just recently started going the other direction. This is an example of why the culture in certain police departments is toxic --

              Like this dude founded a group called "Killology" and he's out here training people to "protect and serve."
              In a fucked up way, I understand the *idea* of what this guy is getting at.

              You have 700,000+ LEO's out there that might need to use deadly force some day. At some point, you want someone to train/address them on that possibility, so that they can act when necessary without hesitation or fear, because it might mean saving innocent lives.

              So you take the angle "killing someone isn't that big of a deal, really," and try to make them feel more comfortable with the thought of killing another human. The thinking is that it's going to put them in a more reasonable state of mind when it comes time for them to pull the trigger on a bad guy, rather than hesitating and being scared of the personal/moral consequences.

              You don't want a cop paralyzed by the implications of killing someone in the moment, you just want them to act.

              The problem is that this guy swings the pendulum waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far in that direction, rather than trying to balance the idea of "killing someone may be necessary, and you need to be ready to do so," vs "killing someone is no big deal at all"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                For arguments sake can you Please define what a properly functioning body is? If I was on a normal blood thinner prescription that caused my me to not be able to uptake oxygen as efficiently would that make any difference at all relative to an illicit drug?
                Sure it would. Whether the drug is legal or illegal it's effecting your body. For arguments sake Dr. Cackalacky, let's dig a little deeper. The blood thinner was prescribe by a doctor to get your body back closer to normal. You don't take illegal drugs for that purpose.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                  Yup, more training and better training. Anecdotally, it's been working in driving down police shootings and excessive force complaints. For too long, police departments have been getting the wrong kind of training and it has just recently started going the other direction. This is an example of why the culture in certain police departments is toxic --

                  Like this dude founded a group called "Killology" and he's out here training people to "protect and serve."
                  With today's SM, I've become a little jaded. Much like the cop that killed the girl with the knife where at first all we heard was she was murdered, then the rest comes out. I wonder what else he said that might put those tweets in a different perspective? Pretty sad if that's all there is to this.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                    Sounds like somebody has been listening to Sam Harris. I listed to a great deal of his stuff and he had an entire episode on this recently. Fascinating stuff, especially how undertrained our police force is. We need to find a way to to pay better and ensure a certain number of hours/week are devoted to training (weapons, combat, etc).
                    Bro I have no idea who Sam Harris is lol. Now I have to Google him and check him out.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FDNYIrish1 View Post
                      Bro I have no idea who Sam Harris is lol. Now I have to Google him and check him out.
                      Crazy, what you were saying could've been lifted from his podcast.

                      Here it is:

                      https://samharris.org/podcasts/246-p...ce-misconduct/

                      Great discussion on why BJJ should be required, along with ongoing weapons training. If police officers must work 40 hrs in the field, they should have another 5 required hours/week for ongoing training.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post

                        NYPD needs a contract with Khabib Nurmagamedov and Georges St. Pierre. I haven't trained for wrestling in over a decade but I've still been able to restrain belligerent drunk friends on a few occasions (obviously not the same but you get the point).

                        Joking aside, more training would be good. But that does take more money, and probably more standards that many police can't meet.

                        In some places, simply paying better might help? I know our local PD gets paid peanuts but I've also seen that some larger city PD's pay pretty well.

                        Training is going to be expensive. But so is paying out civilian complaints. Simply paying more doesn’t solve any of the issues. The police in my area are the highest paid in the country and still have issues. Better physical preparation is a must and everything to this point from politicians is lip service. I’m on the streets of Brooklyn for 20 years. People do not need less policing. We have tons of societal and cultural issues that need to be addressed. That’s a whole other topic though.
                        To your other point, I completely agree with the training aspect. I’m a 48 year old BJJ brown belt and I train with a lot of cops. They are investing in their safety and the safety of the public. I believe every cop should be on the mats on a regular basis. The confidence gained from being prepared would be very advantageous. Sorry I quoted you brother, you brought up some good points.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                          Sure it would. Whether the drug is legal or illegal it's effecting your body. For arguments sake Dr. Cackalacky, let's dig a little deeper. The blood thinner was prescribe by a doctor to get your body back closer to normal. You don't take illegal drugs for that purpose.
                          You didn’t define what a properly functioning body is. That is of utmost importance here

                          if a cop choked me out and so died due to my heart stopping due to a lack of oxygen ..would me taking a blood thinner be a contributing factor?

                          You think meth doesn’t have medical benefits? Marijuana? Does adderall? Xanax? Opioids? Does a prescription from a doctor mean anything other some authorization and recommended limit on dosage? People in California can use marijuana for all kinds of medical reasons legally. I can’t and would be thrown in jail simply for posession
                          Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 04-23-2021, 12:39 PM.
                          "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                            You didn’t define what a properly functioning body is. That is of utmost importance here

                            if a cop choked me out and so died due to my heart stopping due to a lack of oxygen ..would me taking a blood thinner be a contributing factor?

                            You think meth doesn’t have medical benefits? Marijuana? Does adderall? Xanax? Opioids? Does a prescription from a doctor mean anything other some authorization and recommended limit on dosage? People in California can use marijuana for all kinds of medical reasons legally. I can’t and would be thrown in jail simply for posession
                            Your comments could be taken as normalizing drug abuse. I hope that is not your intent but George Floyd's drug use was not a healthy choice. Please find me anyone taking hard core street drugs to enhance their life expectancy and I will show you a fucking moron.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post

                              Your comments could be taken as normalizing drug abuse. I hope that is not your intent but George Floyd's drug use was not a healthy choice. Please find me anyone taking hard core street drugs to enhance their life expectancy and I will show you a fucking moron.
                              Aren’t you a libertarian? Forgive me but I had the damndest time keeping up with the extents of personal freedom. lol. In this I am not. I’m simply trying to get to the heart of the matter that there is no normal condition for any person. Any person at any point in time will be in some varying state of “normal” and that trying to claim Floyd having a heart 10g enlarged over a normal person whatever that means... has little to do with how he actually died. Since all the people upset by Chauvin reduction can’t seem to let go of his use of drugs. He had THC in his blood to but in California that’s legal. Elsewhere it’s not. Color me unphased he was using drugs. Almost every American is on some sort of drug illegal or otherwise.

                              but to your overall point I am pretty much for decriminalization of most scheduled drugs. yes sir.
                              Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 04-23-2021, 02:13 PM.
                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                Aren’t you a libertarian?lol. In this I am not. I’m simply trying to get to the heart of the matter that there is no normal condition for any person. Any person at any point in time will be in some varying state of “normal”.

                                but to your overall point I am pretty much for decriminalization of most scheduled drugs. yes sir.
                                As I previously stated - I would think the known drug involvement would increase your awareness of possible death instead of the cavalier domination of a tweaker that goes unchallenged by your peers. I have no problem with George Floyd putting his health at risk with stupid consumption choices - he might be alive today if he got "clean" drugs in a regulated industry instead of street stuff laced with fentynl or whatever. At least in my opinion - you apparently don't think the drugs contributed at all.

                                Given you last pile of responses can I get you to say insurrectionists didn't kill anyone on Jan 6? (LOL - I will kindly step away now)

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                                • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                  You didn’t define what a properly functioning body is. That is of utmost importance here

                                  if a cop choked me out and so died due to my heart stopping due to a lack of oxygen ..would me taking a blood thinner be a contributing factor?

                                  You think meth doesn’t have medical benefits? Marijuana? Does adderall? Xanax? Opioids? Does a prescription from a doctor mean anything other some authorization and recommended limit on dosage? People in California can use marijuana for all kinds of medical reasons legally. I can’t and would be thrown in jail simply for posession
                                  Cack, you're an okay guy, but down playing the qualifications of a doctor to prove your point is sad.

                                  Comment


                                  • Huhhhh now we pivoting to insurrection requires death? Weird. I don’t think insurrection is defines by deaths that did or do not occur
                                    "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                    • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                      Cack, you're an okay guy, but down playing the qualifications of a doctor to prove your point is sad.
                                      Just ok lol. Alright I guess increasing the significance of illicit drug use to make a point is a ok too. Cool. Opioid prescriptions are ok. marijuana prescriptions are not. I think I got it.
                                      "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                        Just ok lol. Alright I guess increasing the significance of illicit drug use to make a point is a ok too. Cool. Opioid prescriptions are ok. marijuana prescriptions are not. I think I got it.
                                        You only get an "OK" until you see the light! lol

                                        I didn't increase the significance of illegal drugs. I'm simply saying a trained professional is prescribing a drug and dosage level based on an examination, tests and medical history. George Floyd was buying drugs off the street without being under the care of a doctor. The opioid crisis and legalization of pot is another conversation, but nice try.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                          You only get an "OK" until you see the light! lol

                                          I didn't increase the significance of illegal drugs. I'm simply saying a trained professional is prescribing a drug and dosage level based on an examination, tests and medical history. George Floyd was buying drugs off the street without being under the care of a doctor. The opioid crisis and legalization of pot is another conversation, but nice try.
                                          It’s exactly the same conversation. Self medication versus prescription abuse versus legality and a doctors role in it is all the same conversation. Can’t have one without the other.
                                          "From Chaos comes Clarity"

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                                          • Originally posted by TorontoGold View Post

                                            Pretty crass to chide someone's mother-in-law's death, to simp for Derek Chauvin.
                                            I guess I am confused why settle if you could drop the hammer on them. Stop being the sensitivity police.

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                                            • For the sake of argument, is there anyone that feels Chauvin should have been set free to go home? I vote no.

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                                              • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post

                                                I guess I am confused why settle if you could drop the hammer on them. Stop being the sensitivity police.
                                                Yeah, that's totally the sentiment of your post. I'm sure you were genuinely wondering why Cack did go for the exact charges that Chauvin got.

                                                Sensitivity police? You must have me mistaken.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post

                                                  I guess I am confused why settle if you could drop the hammer on them. Stop being the sensitivity police.
                                                  People settle for any number of reasons.
                                                  Based Mullet Kid owns

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                                                  • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                                    It’s exactly the same conversation. Self medication versus prescription abuse versus legality and a doctors role in it is all the same conversation. Can’t have one without the other.
                                                    Self medicating? Lol

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                                                    • Originally posted by TorontoGold View Post

                                                      Yeah, that's totally the sentiment of your post. I'm sure you were genuinely wondering why Cack did go for the exact charges that Chauvin got.

                                                      Sensitivity police? You must have me mistaken.
                                                      Not trying to be a Richard, but if you are going to use personal anecdotal stories to prove a point or make a point you open yourself up for follow up questions. If you are overly sensitive about someone being “crass” you should be reminded you in a political thread on policing.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Originally posted by IrishLion View Post

                                                        In a fucked up way, I understand the *idea* of what this guy is getting at.

                                                        You have 700,000+ LEO's out there that might need to use deadly force some day. At some point, you want someone to train/address them on that possibility, so that they can act when necessary without hesitation or fear, because it might mean saving innocent lives.

                                                        So you take the angle "killing someone isn't that big of a deal, really," and try to make them feel more comfortable with the thought of killing another human. The thinking is that it's going to put them in a more reasonable state of mind when it comes time for them to pull the trigger on a bad guy, rather than hesitating and being scared of the personal/moral consequences.

                                                        You don't want a cop paralyzed by the implications of killing someone in the moment, you just want them to act.

                                                        The problem is that this guy swings the pendulum waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far in that direction, rather than trying to balance the idea of "killing someone may be necessary, and you need to be ready to do so," vs "killing someone is no big deal at all"
                                                        Reading your comment I am reminded of my constant complaints I had many years ago in regard to staffing different departments. Community policing and in the jails. A lot of departments give favor to applicants with a miliary background. I have seen many many college educated applicants sort of laughed at for being too "book smart" for the force but then they hire an ex military guy literally just a few weeks removed from serving overseas. The mentality carries over sometimes into the departments. People are different and some can easily turn the switch from fighting terrorists in the Middle East but some cannot to no fault of their own.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post
                                                          For the sake of argument, is there anyone that feels Chauvin should have been set free to go home? I vote no.
                                                          Of course there are. I think you have to go to re-education camp if you say it out loud, though.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                            Self medicating? Lol
                                                            What is Lol? Just so I better understand your position.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post
                                                              For the sake of argument, is there anyone that feels Chauvin should have been set free to go home? I vote no.
                                                              What purpose does this question serve? If it was between dying and going home, I believe going home would've been the better outcome.

                                                              If the question is, should he have been set free?

                                                              If the police were able to write up a ticket for counterfeit bills while on-site, then I'd have been ok with him going on his intoxicated way.

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                                                              • Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.
                                                                Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                  Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.
                                                                  Should have had a team of social workers to de-escalate the situation or allowed to the man to open up fire before the police took a fatal shot. Outraged!

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                                                                  • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                    Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.
                                                                    We’ve got a comedian in the house who wants to use death as his set piece for his diatribes about how the media is sinister. No irony there.

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                                                                    • Originally posted by ND88 View Post

                                                                      We’ve got a comedian in the house who wants to use death as his set piece for his diatribes about how the media is sinister. No irony there.
                                                                      The irony is the left has been using dead people as pawns for years. How dare he...

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                                                                      • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                        Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.
                                                                        Talk about identity politics, it is obvious that you see the world in black and white. Come up for air, take a breath, you are getting sucked under bruh.
                                                                        Maybe it's far too soon to tell.

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                                                                        • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post

                                                                          The irony is the left has been using dead people as pawns for years. How dare he...
                                                                          Yea, how dare he do the same thing you are criticizing. No logic hole there. I won’t appeal to empathy since only rational talk is accepted as valid argumentation on political matters here (italics on the rational talk).

                                                                          Besides, if that’s your or anyone else’s excuse, how is that any better?

                                                                          Degradation is degradation.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                                            Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.
                                                                            We won't hear jack about this. It's a white guy, so obviously, it won't make it past local news. It may seem overly simplistic and racially-driven but it's the reality of how the mainstream media operates. They have a narrative, and they're going to stick to it. It's how somebody like Jacob Blake gets significantly more media attention and outrage than Daniel Shaver or Ryan Whitaker.

                                                                            I'd be less angry about this, if it was just media pundits or athletes trying to push this narrative, but it's even being pushed by politicians in power to make change. It's disturbing when the President and VP actually believe the narratives regarding cases like Jacob Blake or Makhia Bryant, because why in the hell should they be in positions to make policy changes when they can't even be trusted to get the story right?
                                                                            It's Just a Ride.

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                                                                            • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post

                                                                              Not trying to be a Richard, but if you are going to use personal anecdotal stories to prove a point or make a point you open yourself up for follow up questions. If you are overly sensitive about someone being “crass” you should be reminded you in a political thread on policing.
                                                                              Yeah, and if I asked you about your sexual assault allegations of sleeping with inmates (as you've shared) whenever Cuomo etc. were discussed that would be over the top.

                                                                              I was more pointing it out as crass so if some wanted to see an opportunity to be an equal arbiter on "tone" they would probably take issue with your post, and not just mine.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • Originally posted by TorontoGold View Post

                                                                                Yeah, and if I asked you about your sexual assault allegations of sleeping with inmates (as you've shared) whenever Cuomo etc. were discussed that would be over the top.

                                                                                I was more pointing it out as crass so if some wanted to see an opportunity to be an equal arbiter on "tone" they would probably take issue with your post, and not just mine.
                                                                                Why would that be over the top? Ask away.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post

                                                                                  Why would that be over the top? Ask away.
                                                                                  Canucks may have different social norms
                                                                                  Based Mullet Kid owns

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                                                                                  • Count me out of the "police just need more training" crowd. They make around what, 1,000 lethal mistakes per year out of 300,000,000 interactions? No situation is the same and you are going to have mistakes made (look at surgeries). More police training won't do anything.

                                                                                    Know what would? Setting people's expectations so they aren't holier than thou from their desk, never willing to put their chest on the line each day with a family at home. Know what else would make a difference? How "not to be an idiot" course required each year for a couple of days in high school.

                                                                                    The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

                                                                                    Done.

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by IrishRazor82 View Post
                                                                                      Count me out of the "police just need more training" crowd. They make around what, 1,000 lethal mistakes per year out of 300,000,000 interactions? No situation is the same and you are going to have mistakes made (look at surgeries). More police training won't do anything.

                                                                                      Know what would? Setting people's expectations so they aren't holier than thou from their desk, never willing to put their chest on the line each day with a family at home. Know what else would make a difference? How "not to be an idiot" course required each year for a couple of days in high school.

                                                                                      The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

                                                                                      Done.
                                                                                      lol. So, you don't want the police force to have more training? Your little diatribe doesn't change the fact that our police force is woefully undertrained.

                                                                                      Here's what our great state of Indiana requires:

                                                                                      http://Annual In-service Training RequirementIC 5-2-1-9(g) Presently 24 hours annually – must include 2 hours in Firearms*, 2 hours in Physical Tactics/Use of Force and 2 hours in Police Vehicle Operation.

                                                                                      2 hrs of firearms training per year. Per fucking year.

                                                                                      2 hrs of physical tactics/use of force.

                                                                                      I just can't imagine anyone saying, "that's enough for me. Fire that fuckin gun when you feel threatened"

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • I agree with what Lax has said many times in this thread. Tons of more funding for training, much higher pay, and much more stringent hiring requirements.

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                                                          lol. So, you don't want the police force to have more training? Your little diatribe doesn't change the fact that our police force is woefully undertrained.

                                                                                          Here's what our great state of Indiana requires:

                                                                                          http://Annual In-service Training RequirementIC 5-2-1-9(g) Presently 24 hours annually – must include 2 hours in Firearms*, 2 hours in Physical Tactics/Use of Force and 2 hours in Police Vehicle Operation.

                                                                                          2 hrs of firearms training per year. Per fucking year.

                                                                                          2 hrs of physical tactics/use of force.

                                                                                          I just can't imagine anyone saying, "that's enough for me. Fire that fuckin gun when you feel threatened"
                                                                                          I agree more training is required, but it's hard to argue with the rest of his post.

                                                                                          I think there is a need to develop better psychological screening for applicants. Even with that, the problem will still exist is smaller communities where the applicant pool is much smaller. At some point when know one meets the requirements, a lesser qualified person may get hired strictly to get the position filled. Especially if any potential loss of funding may happen if the position isn't filled.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by IrishRazor82 View Post
                                                                                            Count me out of the "police just need more training" crowd. They make around what, 1,000 lethal mistakes per year out of 300,000,000 interactions? No situation is the same and you are going to have mistakes made (look at surgeries). More police training won't do anything.

                                                                                            Know what would? Setting people's expectations so they aren't holier than thou from their desk, never willing to put their chest on the line each day with a family at home. Know what else would make a difference? How "not to be an idiot" course required each year for a couple of days in high school.

                                                                                            The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

                                                                                            Done.
                                                                                            This seems to imply that we have a people problem and not a police problem. I find that problematic because it requires a far more complex solution and we don't want that in this country. We want a simple problem and a simpler fix. We want to be mad. This would imply that many of those who die in use of force incidents do so because their criminal actions escalated the situation into a dangerous place. That would demand accountability on people rather than police. Hard sell.

                                                                                            I'd rather believe cops are evil and hunting people based on aggressive assumptions derived from biases in a world that I'm told is deeply and hopelessly racist.

                                                                                            It's working too. TSA didn't even fix this mess.

                                                                                            Definitely not a people problem.





                                                                                            Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                                                            lol. So, you don't want the police force to have more training? Your little diatribe doesn't change the fact that our police force is woefully undertrained.

                                                                                            Here's what our great state of Indiana requires....
                                                                                            I agree they could use more training, but I'm skeptical most only get 2 hours a year of range time. They have a desire to live and recognize they need to be proficient in their weapons. I'm sure most police chiefs are taking action to defend their programs.
                                                                                            Last edited by drayer54; 04-26-2021, 10:40 AM.
                                                                                            Running the damn ball since 2017.

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

                                                                                              I agree more training is required, but it's hard to argue with the rest of his post.

                                                                                              I think there is a need to develop better psychological screening for applicants. Even with that, the problem will still exist is smaller communities where the applicant pool is much smaller. At some point when know one meets the requirements, a lesser qualified person may get hired strictly to get the position filled. Especially if any potential loss of funding may happen if the position isn't filled.
                                                                                              It's very easy to argue the rest of his point. If you can't change people, you can change the police force for the better. You can make your police force more confident in physical altercations, you can make your force more competent and prepared for weapons engagement. The police force should have mandatory monthly minimum training to keep a sharp edge. But these should be requirements and subsidized/paid for with our tax dollars. Our police force should be amongst the most competent and skilled in the world in high pressure situations.

                                                                                              There will still be lives lost because there are still bad actors in this world but I'd feel much safer with these protocols in place. Couple that with stringent screening and we've reduced one of the pathways to undesirable outcomes.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by Trait Expectations View Post

                                                                                                It's very easy to argue the rest of his point. If you can't change people, you can change the police force for the better. You can make your police force more confident in physical altercations, you can make your force more competent and prepared for weapons engagement. The police force should have mandatory monthly minimum training to keep a sharp edge. But these should be requirements and subsidized/paid for with our tax dollars. Our police force should be amongst the most competent and skilled in the world in high pressure situations.

                                                                                                There will still be lives lost because there are still bad actors in this world but I'd feel much safer with these protocols in place. Couple that with stringent screening and we've reduced one of the pathways to undesirable outcomes.
                                                                                                I would argue they already are. We're talking about how many incidents out what really big number? And several of those contested, you will get arguments defending them like Ferguson, Kenosha, Columbus, etc.

                                                                                                It's not an easy job.


                                                                                                Running the damn ball since 2017.

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                                                                                                • Shooting at a range more isn't going to change anything guys. Every situation an officer goes into is different. They're like fingerprints, none are the same. Which is why I think they're doing a pretty incredible (and thankless) job if you think about it given the hundreds of millions of interactions they race into.

                                                                                                  We have some really dumb curriculum in HS's. Let's add a "how not to be an idiot when pulled over" to it. It will save more lives than additional range time.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by IrishRazor82 View Post
                                                                                                    Shooting at a range more isn't going to change anything guys. Every situation an officer goes into is different. They're like fingerprints, none are the same. Which is why I think they're doing a pretty incredible (and thankless) job if you think about it given the hundreds of millions of interactions they race into.

                                                                                                    We have some really dumb curriculum in HS's. Let's add a "how not to be an idiot when pulled over" to it. It will save more lives than additional range time.
                                                                                                    Exactly. How do you practice stress? How do you practice a live situation where a 16 year old girl pulls a knife out another person? How do you prepare for a 13 year kid running down an alley with a gun in the dark. I have coached baseball for a long time. There are people (granted mostly kids but we are all human) that was probably a Hall of Famer in practice but would get performance anxiety or something and his practice did not translate on the field. I have worked with police and in jails where all the training in the world could not help because they freeze or I have seen guys totally see Red and go crazy.

                                                                                                    We can cherry pick cases to make any arguement about policing but the stats do not back up most of the rhetoric on policing. Are people scared of police because they are big bad monsters or because they are taught and its constantly reinforced they are big bad monsters? The facts and stats do not back up the rhetoric.

                                                                                                    I have asked this before... and it was even stated above. With the amount of police contacts compared to the amount of actual police shootings/killings and if you take away all the ones that are deemed justifed (but even if you dont), statistically speaking this is a problem that almost does not exist. Last year we had maybe 20 police killings of an unarmed black person (I am maybe a little high) compared to millions of police contacts. What number would be acceptable for BLM or the left that hate police? 0 is unrealistic.

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by Blazers46 View Post

                                                                                                      Exactly. How do you practice stress? How do you practice a live situation where a 16 year old girl pulls a knife out another person? How do you prepare for a 13 year kid running down an alley with a gun in the dark. I have coached baseball for a long time. There are people (granted mostly kids but we are all human) that was probably a Hall of Famer in practice but would get performance anxiety or something and his practice did not translate on the field. I have worked with police and in jails where all the training in the world could not help because they freeze or I have seen guys totally see Red and go crazy.

                                                                                                      We can cherry pick cases to make any arguement about policing but the stats do not back up most of the rhetoric on policing. Are people scared of police because they are big bad monsters or because they are taught and its constantly reinforced they are big bad monsters? The facts and stats do not back up the rhetoric.

                                                                                                      I have asked this before... and it was even stated above. With the amount of police contacts compared to the amount of actual police shootings/killings and if you take away all the ones that are deemed justifed (but even if you dont), statistically speaking this is a problem that almost does not exist. Last year we had maybe 20 police killings of an unarmed black person (I am maybe a little high) compared to millions of police contacts. What number would be acceptable for BLM or the left that hate police? 0 is unrealistic.
                                                                                                      The number of unarmed people killed by police is absurdly low compared to what people think.

                                                                                                      I forget what group did the polling and the exact numbers...but people identifying as "liberal or very liberal" estimated that somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 unarmed black men were killed by police every year. "Conservative or very conservative" people estimated it was several hundred I believe.


                                                                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

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