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  • Originally posted by Rocket89 View Post

    I have zero doubt that Drayer & Co. came screaming in here ready for culture war time and feel like it's their duty to counter the MSM narrative. But let's not pretend this is some valiant effort when there's a trail of BS left behind in the facts of the case from their wake.
    I don't blame a 13-year-old. He should have been at home under the care of his parents in bed and tired from a day of playing games, learning, and spending time with his family. This kid was absorbed in a gang culture and life of crime. Sadly, he was going to be at a high risk of being shot for the next decade. The parents should be behind bars for this level of negligence. He surely was in a school that reinforced zero discipline or manners in the children. Yes, I saw the LIL Homicide stuff at his memorial and the social media pictures released.

    While I think each shooting/event has to be looked at on an island, the whole picture matters. The kid was doing bad things with bad people at an hour of the day where not many good people are running around with guns. I think most people would find it reasonable for an officer to act the way this one did in this scenario. The MSM narrative is gasoline on a fire to spread fire and draw ratings. The truth doesn't matter and is even controversial these days because of a very vocal and powerful echo chamber that wants dramatic and disastrous changes in our law enforcement that would make us far less safe.
    Running the damn ball since 2017.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
      Speaking of I just found out that the person who killed my cousin last night was 14 yo and shot him in his apartment.
      Really sorry to hear that Cack... hope you and your family are hanging in there.

      Comment


      • The folks on the tube have been pretty favorable to the prosecution the past few weeks, and seem a bit critical of the defense attorney's delivery of his closing argument. He's going very long.

        However, they are acknowledging that he's made good points that seem hard for the prosecution to overcome.

        Based Mullet Kid owns

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
          The folks on the tube have been pretty favorable to the prosecution the past few weeks, and seem a bit critical of the defense attorney's delivery of his closing argument. He's going very long.

          However, they are acknowledging that he's made good points that seem hard for the prosecution to overcome.
          I think this guy Nelson has earned his check. Case aside, taking on the full effort of the state of Minnesota and the best team they could assemble is not easy.
          Running the damn ball since 2017.

          Comment


          • Lol the judge straight up said Maxine Waters has provided a valid basis for Chauvin to appeal a potential guilty verdict.

            Lol this case gonna end up in textbooks.
            Based Mullet Kid owns

            Comment


            • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
              Lol the judge straight up said Maxine Waters has provided a valid basis for Chauvin to appeal a potential guilty verdict.

              Lol this case gonna end up in textbooks.
              I still don't understand how they justified not sequestering the jury for a case that it all over the internet, social media, tv, radio, etc. Maxine Waters is an abhorrent person and congresswoman, so it was good to hear the judge call that out.
              Running the damn ball since 2017.

              Comment




              • Civil forfeiture is another part of policing that is completely broken. There was a story locally here a few years back where some rich people were having a house game of poker and the cops broken in guns drawn and just took all their money. The pretext? The players all pitched in some money for dealers and food, so the cops tried to claim on a technicality that it was "illegal gambling" and not a totally permissible house game.

                The problem with robbing rich people though is that they have the power to hire lawyers to fuck you up. What ultimately ended up happening was that the state agreed to a deal where all charges were dropped and 60% of the money stolen was returned to the players... that's right, at the end of the day the state still robbed them of 40% of the cash they had on them.

                Civil forfeiture in the United States is a multi-billion dollar industry and much of it happens to people who are never charged with a crime and never did anything wrong. It is very expensive to fight the state to get your money back so if you got wrongfully robbed of $500 in a traffic stop you aren't going to pay $10k for a lawyer to get that $500 back. Totally broken system.

                Comment


                • Sorry... last update here as it just sucks but it seems more and more like it was an accident that occured in the house and the 14 yo did it but tried to make it look like my cousins fault so they are charging him with manslaughter and tampering with crime scene. :(
                  "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post


                    Civil forfeiture is another part of policing that is completely broken. There was a story locally here a few years back where some rich people were having a house game of poker and the cops broken in guns drawn and just took all their money. The pretext? The players all pitched in some money for dealers and food, so the cops tried to claim on a technicality that it was "illegal gambling" and not a totally permissible house game.

                    The problem with robbing rich people though is that they have the power to hire lawyers to fuck you up. What ultimately ended up happening was that the state agreed to a deal where all charges were dropped and 60% of the money stolen was returned to the players... that's right, at the end of the day the state still robbed them of 40% of the cash they had on them.

                    Civil forfeiture in the United States is a multi-billion dollar industry and much of it happens to people who are never charged with a crime and never did anything wrong. It is very expensive to fight the state to get your money back so if you got wrongfully robbed of $500 in a traffic stop you aren't going to pay $10k for a lawyer to get that $500 back. Totally broken system.
                    You've done it. You found it. We agree!!! Ban this crap practice.
                    Running the damn ball since 2017.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                      Sorry... last update here as it just sucks but it seems more and more like it was an accident that occured in the house and the 14 yo did it but tried to make it look like my cousins fault so they are charging him with manslaughter and tampering with crime scene. :(
                      I'll withhold judgment on the kid then. Assuming it was an accident, can't imagine the panic going through the kid's head.

                      Prayers for the fam.
                      Based Mullet Kid owns

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Rocket89 View Post

                        This story?

                        https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ce/6225702002/

                        I read a few articles on this one. My instinct is to believe the police (edit: not so sure things were pretty sketchy on their part as I read more) but it doesn't seem like they proved the victim shot first, hence the protests and lawsuit?
                        That's it. They didn't just shoot him without provocation. IIRC a grand jury found there was no cause to indict the officer. If you're the police and someone raises a gun, do you wait to see if they hit you before firing? Why run and put yourself in that position?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                          Speaking of I just found out that the person who killed my cousin last night was 14 yo and shot him in his apartment.
                          What a sad story.

                          Comment


                          • Biden has now suggested he has a horse in the verdict. Idk what its like being in the jury, or if there is any risk of that getting to the jury, but this shit isn't good for anyone.

                            Minneapolis paper published profiles on the jurors, gave some background on each of them. I'm not sure how much of that is public information but it seems pretty f'ing bad to describe a juror as being a young mixed-race girl from northern Minnesota whose uncle in a Brainerd cop.

                            ^ Brainerd is not a big town. Like 15k. It is not outlandish to think someone could figure out who the girl is.

                            Based Mullet Kid owns

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rocket89 View Post

                              You quite literally just spelled out the definition of victim blaming. Here's the deal:

                              If police are in a situation where they're being fired upon or someone is attacking them with a deadly weapon, and those police respond with deadly force, virtually no one complains about police misconduct and everyone rallies around law enforcement.

                              In your comment you highlighted 6 areas to blame victims:

                              1) Criminal behavior
                              2) Resisting arrest
                              3) Attempting to flee
                              4) Fighting with police
                              5) Obey lawful commands
                              6) Brandishing weapons

                              Numbers 1, 2, 3, and 5 almost never require excessive force, and certainly not deadly force. There's more gray area in number 4 and even more in number 6. Lumping in 1, 2, 3, and 5 as justification for a shooting is exactly part of the problem with police. For most of the country understanding this problem is elementary to American justice.

                              The problem with the Victim Blaming crowd is that when there are accusations of police misconduct there's a reflex to act like law enforcement are always in situations where excessive/deadly force is necessary--and when that runs counter to the facts as we're seeing clearly with Adam Toledo--the next step is to blame the victim even further to a more personal degree (he was a gang member, dealt drugs, used drugs, had a record, where were the parents, etc) and other tropes with racist origins to excuse police misconduct.

                              Just in the last 2 pages of this thread on Toledo's shooting we have such comments as:

                              "But his nickname was Lil' Homicide."
                              "Mother was not mothering."
                              "Gangbanger."
                              "Sympathy goes to the officer."
                              "Not all heroes wear capes."
                              "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
                              "Would've been killed by another gang member anyway."

                              Zero moderate voices in this thread are saying these things. It's exclusively right-wing posters. It makes you wonder why? If right-wingers wanted to stick to the defense that Chicago is dangerous and it was a difficult situation with Toledo dropping the gun at the last second, that's acceptable. But, they're taken it even further with the vilification of the victim. Again, why?

                              In many of these cases, the more personal the victim blaming gets the greater the relationship between police misconduct. In the year 2021, if you see a white person using the term "gangbanger" in regards to an incident it's a dead give away where their motivation is w/r/t police and shootings. Americans with empathy don't need to say these things if the facts of the case line up in favor of the police.

                              If anyone made those above comments and they worked for Notre Dame, they'd likely be fired (oh no cancel culture!).

                              And yet, the handful of posters who made them will complain about the media going overboard and that it's the media's fault that they're bringing race into it to stoke the fire when in reality you can't find a more politicizing event than excessive victim blaming after shootings. Thick irony. Police reform will continue to be impossible when such a large bloc of voters think victim blaming is okay (even encouraged, especially within police themselves) and that less victim blaming means those against it are the greatest victims of all.
                              The dead 7 year old in the McDs drive through is a VICTIM - keep granting sainthood to criminals though. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes is the story of pretty much every BLM martyr while the dead kids at McDs are ignored..

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                                Given all that, shooting rates per police encounter in the US are higher in suburbs and rural areas than in cities. Which means even if you accept that places like Chicago, etc. are beyond saving in their current format, there are a lot of other police involved shootings that have nothing to do with policing dangerous crime/gang infested cities.
                                I never saw that story and I thought NY Post was a garbage tabloid rag that got banned from Twitter?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post

                                  The dead 7 year old in the McDs drive through is a VICTIM - keep granting sainthood to criminals though. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes is the story of pretty much every BLM martyr while the dead kids at McDs are ignored..
                                  I see you still don't understand what some of these guys are saying...

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post

                                    The dead 7 year old in the McDs drive through is a VICTIM - keep granting sainthood to criminals though. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes is the story of pretty much every BLM martyr while the dead kids at McDs are ignored..
                                    Communist rag CNN has a story https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/us/ch...old/index.html

                                    Would you like to share your sympathies for the dead child, or is it purely just a prop to distract for a 13 year old kid being killed? Some reports are saying it's gang related, if the father was in a gang, then yolo who cares stupid prize. Right?

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post

                                      The dead 7 year old in the McDs drive through is a VICTIM - keep granting sainthood to criminals though. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes is the story of pretty much every BLM martyr while the dead kids at McDs are ignored..
                                      The ignorance level of this comment is ... well, what’s the point of explaining? Seriously, there isn’t a point. You’re gonna see and justify the way you want to see and justify. This is America.

                                      Comment


                                      • I'm confused as to why we're comparing Toledo and the drive-thru tragedy?
                                        Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                          Sorry... last update here as it just sucks but it seems more and more like it was an accident that occured in the house and the 14 yo did it but tried to make it look like my cousins fault so they are charging him with manslaughter and tampering with crime scene. :(
                                          Just a shitty situation all around. Prayers to you and your family Cack.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                            I'm confused as to why we're comparing Toledo and the drive-thru tragedy?
                                            Just trying to define the term "victim" - which is apparently horrible and offensive to most. I will concede the 13 year old was a victim of negligent parenting and cultural rot. Who TF is putting a hand gun in the hands of a 13 y/o at 3 AM? Put that community on trial, not the cop. Our society will never get serious about removing both of those children from dangerous home environments.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by ND88 View Post

                                              The ignorance level of this comment is ... well, what’s the point of explaining? Seriously, there isn’t a point. You’re gonna see and justify the way you want to see and justify. This is America.
                                              Right back at ya. Sorry so many have chugged the BLM kool-aid and don't see it for the race baiting sham that it is. March on some dangerous shithole after a kid gets killed by gang-banger cross fire for just once and I will consider an ounce of respect for the "movement".

                                              I don't like or trust cops - so I should engage in behavior that increases my likelihood of interacting with them? I am all for better methods of swifter, fairer, more cost effective ways of implementing our "justice" system.

                                              Lax makes some great points in here that are rooted in granting too much power with cost prohibitive recourse to law enforcement. Power corrupts and the system protects their own. At the point and time you find yourself in court, you have already lost - whether it is the local po-po or the FBI that put you there. If you don't have money you are F-ed. If you have money (or know the right folks) you can get away with murder.

                                              Comment


                                              • Jury has reached a decision in Chauvin case. Announcement eminent. Hold on to your butts.
                                                "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                Comment


                                                • Evidently Joe wanted to ensure riots in case Maxine Waters attempts were not enough.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • I suspect there will be some rioting regardless of the decision. If guilty, not guilty enough if that makes sense. Let's pray for peace.

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                      Jury has reached a decision in Chauvin case. Announcement eminent. Hold on to your butts.
                                                      I told my friend who lives there I could use a new TV
                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post

                                                        I told my friend who lives there I could use a new TV
                                                        If you're going to loot, do it with an appliance dolly.

                                                        This would be me-
                                                        Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                        Comment


                                                        • House Democrats support violence and jury intimidation-
                                                          Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • Going to be a loooong night.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • I'm assuming they are rioting regardless of the verdict as Maxine instructed them that any verdict less than 1st degree murder will be insufficient.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • Guilty all accounts
                                                                Second-degree murder — unintentional is defined as causing death without intent to do so, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense. The maximum sentence for second-degree murder is 40 years.

                                                                Third-degree murder is causing death to an individual by "perpetrating an act imminently dangerous to others and evidencing a depraved mind without regard for human life," but without the intent to cause death. It carries a maximum sentence of 25 years.

                                                                Second-degree manslaughter is causing the death of another by "culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk" in which the defendant "consciously takes the risk of causing death or great bodily harm to another individual." It carries a maximum sentence of 10 years.
                                                                Last edited by Cackalacky2.0; 04-20-2021, 04:14 PM.
                                                                "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Appeals will be neat to follow.
                                                                  Based Mullet Kid owns

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • I feel like some of us watched a completely differnet trial lol
                                                                    "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                      I feel like some of us watched a completely differnet trial lol
                                                                      A bunch of horns are going off in my area, a lot of people are taking this in. This is a very white area FWIW.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • Great moment for this country.

                                                                        White supremacy took a loss today.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                          Guilty all accounts
                                                                          Second-degree murder — unintentional is defined as causing death without intent to do so, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense. The maximum sentence for second-degree murder is 40 years.

                                                                          Third-degree murder is causing death to an individual by "perpetrating an act imminently dangerous to others and evidencing a depraved mind without regard for human life," but without the intent to cause death. It carries a maximum sentence of 25 years.

                                                                          Second-degree manslaughter is causing the death of another by "culpable negligence, creating an unreasonable risk" in which the defendant "consciously takes the risk of causing death or great bodily harm to another individual." It carries a maximum sentence of 10 years.
                                                                          I’m certainly no lawyer, but this is a surprising outcome to me if considering the evidence only. I felt that the second degree murder charge would be very difficult to prove and don’t understand how the third-degree charge can be charged by definition. The manslaughter charge was a toss-up leaning towards convict.

                                                                          You have to think that the societal context of the outcome led to some Minneapolis-native jurors to vote guilty on all three.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by TorontoGold View Post

                                                                            A bunch of horns are going off in my area, a lot of people are taking this in. This is a very white area FWIW.
                                                                            Yeah IDK about celebrating but watching that video and coming away with a personal assessment of anything less than straight up murder is interesting. Especially watching th edefense throw the kitchen sink at causes other than the obvious nature of his demise.
                                                                            "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • Originally posted by tussin View Post

                                                                              I’m certainly no lawyer, but this is a surprising outcome to me if considering the evidence only. I felt that the second degree murder charge would be very difficult to prove and don’t understand how the third-degree charge can be charged by definition. The manslaughter charge was a toss-up leaning towards convict.

                                                                              You have to think that the societal context of the outcome led to some Minneapolis-native jurors to vote guilty on all three.
                                                                              Not a lawyer either obviously but i tried to put myself in there as a juror and I think I could see all of those having been met. I think if you can show Count 1 then count 3 follows. Count 2 for sure just by using his knee on his neck and refusing anyone to check on him, contra to police training etc...Negligence (unintention or not) leading to death.
                                                                              "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • Not surprised. That was a brief deliberation and the jurors knew what was on the line.

                                                                                Hopefully, the community remains intact tonight. Wouldn't be shocked if the outside influences come up in an appeals process, but doubt it goes anywhere significant. Curious how the sentencing will be. If it's like any other criminal in America, it will likely be light and he'll be out in no time.
                                                                                Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                                Comment




                                                                                • Endorsing Maxine's incitement of violence clearly had her in a good mood. Missed opportunity for wearing the kente cloth again.
                                                                                  Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • Originally posted by tussin View Post

                                                                                    I’m certainly no lawyer, but this is a surprising outcome to me if considering the evidence only. I felt that the second degree murder charge would be very difficult to prove and don’t understand how the third-degree charge can be charged by definition. The manslaughter charge was a toss-up leaning towards convict.

                                                                                    You have to think that the societal context of the outcome led to some Minneapolis-native jurors to vote guilty on all three.
                                                                                    I don't mean this as a shot, but every lawyer I know is not surprised. This was a pretty clear case of murder if you take it just on the evidence. All the speculation was done by the defense, which is not a good strategy.

                                                                                    I think some of the confusion comes from us lay people having preconceived notions about what "murder" is that differs from the written law and case law.

                                                                                    And I don't want to quote or confront anyone, but can we drop the Pelosi/Waters/Biden stuff? Pelosi is a politician, they say dumb shit. Maxine Waters is a politician and someone whose community was hurting, she's going to say things in terms we might not like. Biden just said his opinion when jurors couldn't see it. I don't know what the GOP is saying. To me, it's just a weird distraction from a cop who murdered a civilian and got justice.
                                                                                    Last edited by ResLife Hero; 04-20-2021, 05:03 PM.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post

                                                                                      Yeah IDK about celebrating but watching that video and coming away with a personal assessment of anything less than straight up murder is interesting. Especially watching th edefense throw the kitchen sink at causes other than the obvious nature of his demise.
                                                                                      Yeah this is a very performative type neighborhood so tact isn't a strong suit. Celebrating it seems a tad uncouth as it won't bring George Floyd back.

                                                                                      Just heard Biden call the family, good show of humanity.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • Originally posted by Cackalacky2.0 View Post
                                                                                        I feel like some of us watched a completely differnet trial lol
                                                                                        Huh, weird. I wonder why that would be...

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • Originally posted by Rocket89 View Post

                                                                                          Huh, weird. I wonder why that would be...
                                                                                          What are you implying..?

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                          • Originally posted by Rocket89 View Post

                                                                                            You quite literally just spelled out the definition of victim blaming. Here's the deal:

                                                                                            If police are in a situation where they're being fired upon or someone is attacking them with a deadly weapon, and those police respond with deadly force, virtually no one complains about police misconduct and everyone rallies around law enforcement.

                                                                                            In your comment you highlighted 6 areas to blame victims:

                                                                                            1) Criminal behavior
                                                                                            2) Resisting arrest
                                                                                            3) Attempting to flee
                                                                                            4) Fighting with police
                                                                                            5) Obey lawful commands
                                                                                            6) Brandishing weapons

                                                                                            Numbers 1, 2, 3, and 5 almost never require excessive force, and certainly not deadly force. There's more gray area in number 4 and even more in number 6. Lumping in 1, 2, 3, and 5 as justification for a shooting is exactly part of the problem with police. For most of the country understanding this problem is elementary to American justice.

                                                                                            The problem with the Victim Blaming crowd is that when there are accusations of police misconduct there's a reflex to act like law enforcement are always in situations where excessive/deadly force is necessary--and when that runs counter to the facts as we're seeing clearly with Adam Toledo--the next step is to blame the victim even further to a more personal degree (he was a gang member, dealt drugs, used drugs, had a record, where were the parents, etc) and other tropes with racist origins to excuse police misconduct.

                                                                                            Just in the last 2 pages of this thread on Toledo's shooting we have such comments as:

                                                                                            "But his nickname was Lil' Homicide."
                                                                                            "Mother was not mothering."
                                                                                            "Gangbanger."
                                                                                            "Sympathy goes to the officer."
                                                                                            "Not all heroes wear capes."
                                                                                            "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
                                                                                            "Would've been killed by another gang member anyway."

                                                                                            Zero moderate voices in this thread are saying these things. It's exclusively right-wing posters. It makes you wonder why? If right-wingers wanted to stick to the defense that Chicago is dangerous and it was a difficult situation with Toledo dropping the gun at the last second, that's acceptable. But, they're taken it even further with the vilification of the victim. Again, why?

                                                                                            In many of these cases, the more personal the victim blaming gets the greater the relationship between police misconduct. In the year 2021, if you see a white person using the term "gangbanger" in regards to an incident it's a dead give away where their motivation is w/r/t police and shootings. Americans with empathy don't need to say these things if the facts of the case line up in favor of the police.

                                                                                            If anyone made those above comments and they worked for Notre Dame, they'd likely be fired (oh no cancel culture!).

                                                                                            And yet, the handful of posters who made them will complain about the media going overboard and that it's the media's fault that they're bringing race into it to stoke the fire when in reality you can't find a more politicizing event than excessive victim blaming after shootings. Thick irony. Police reform will continue to be impossible when such a large bloc of voters think victim blaming is okay (even encouraged, especially within police themselves) and that less victim blaming means those against it are the greatest victims of all.
                                                                                            First, great news. The disgrace Derek Chauvin is getting what he deserves. Guilty on all counts.

                                                                                            So it’s been awhile since I’ve posted on here. I’ve read dozens of posts and all offer valid points and some are a little, and rightfully so, emotional. I can speak from experience, the vast majority of cops detest Chauvin. And, moving forward, most cops can agree that use of force standards and policing needs to change. But, even the most progressive states struggle on how exactly to do it. Cases like Derek Chauvin are easy to spot but there are many gray areas that need both cops and non cops to come to together and find someone common ground. I am not picking on you specifically, your post just captured and summed up many other posts.
                                                                                            So id like to address a few things

                                                                                            So the term excessive force. Excessive force is never justified because it’s excessive. Police use of force, on the other hand, has to be equal/proportionate to the resistance/force used against the cop. Also, once the person is detained, the force must stop. Example is Chauvin. Once Floyd was detained, the force should’ve stopped. He wasn’t a threat.

                                                                                            So I’m not sure if you meant excessive force or use of force. I’ll assume you meant use of force.

                                                                                            To your points about 1, 2, 3, and 5 never needing excessive force, again, I’m assuming you mean use of force:

                                                                                            1. Criminal behavior. I’m not sure what you mean by Criminal behavior but I’ll assume you mean during a crime. Petty crimes you’re probably right unless it evolves into something more serious. But violent crimes (robbery, gun violence, sex assault..etc) can involve completely justified proportionate use of force depending on the crime and what the suspect is doing.

                                                                                            2. Resisting arrest. Resisting arrest can be running away (fleeing) or being non compliant. Refusing to be handcuffed. The cop tackling the person to get the person handcuffed is justified. Resisting arrest also includes fighting police FYI. But again everything has to be proportionate. And it depends what the person is fleeing for? What if the person is running because they just shot, sexually assaulted, or robbed someone? All things that need to be considered and the proportionate use of force should be used.

                                                                                            3. Obeying lawful commands shouldnt involve force because the person is obeying what the cop is telling them.

                                                                                            Use of force isn’t just deadly force. There’s a lot of in between from no force to deadly force.

                                                                                            It’s really not as elementary as you believe and I don’t mean that as an insult in anyway. That’s why even the most progressive DAs and state government are having trouble finding a solution and why their positions involves better training and the hiring of better more qualified candidates.

                                                                                            Also, an interesting tidbit of information, only until recently could cops reactions to race when using deadly force be somewhat accurately measured with the use of technology. Michigan state I think did a study in 2015 I believe and found that cops are faster to shoot white people than people color. I can find it if anyone would like to read it. I used it for my research.


                                                                                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                                                                                            • "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • Originally posted by ResLife Hero View Post

                                                                                                I don't mean this as a shot, but every lawyer I know is not surprised. This was a pretty clear case of murder if you take it just on the evidence. All the speculation was done by the defense, which is not a good strategy.

                                                                                                I think some of the confusion comes from us lay people having preconceived notions about what "murder" is that differs from the written law and case law.

                                                                                                And I don't want to quote or confront anyone, but can we drop the Pelosi/Waters/Biden stuff? Pelosi is a politician, they say dumb shit. Maxine Waters is a politician and someone whose community was hurting, she's going to say things in terms we might not like. Biden just said his opinion when jurors couldn't see it. I don't know what the GOP is saying. To me, it's just a weird distraction from a cop who murdered a civilian and got justice.
                                                                                                Pretty clear as in not first degree murder but murder in that his actions whether of negligence or depraved mind directly lead to Floyd’s death... yes. Second degree murder for sure. Very evident.
                                                                                                "From Chaos comes Clarity"

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • Originally posted by tommyIRISH23 View Post


                                                                                                  It’s really not as elementary as you believe and I don’t mean that as an insult in anyway. That’s why even the most progressive DAs and state government are having trouble finding a solution and why their positions involves better training and the hiring of better more qualified candidates.

                                                                                                  Also, an interesting tidbit of information, only until recently could cops reactions to race when using deadly force be somewhat accurately measured with the use of technology. Michigan state I think did a study in 2015 I believe and found that cops are faster to shoot white people than people color. I can find it if anyone would like to read it.
                                                                                                  Good points and I agree, and don’t think you’ve refuted anything I brought up.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by ResLife Hero View Post

                                                                                                    I don't mean this as a shot, but every lawyer I know is not surprised. This was a pretty clear case of murder if you take it just on the evidence. All the speculation was done by the defense, which is not a good strategy.

                                                                                                    I think some of the confusion comes from us lay people having preconceived notions about what "murder" is that differs from the written law and case law.

                                                                                                    And I don't want to quote or confront anyone, but can we drop the Pelosi/Waters/Biden stuff? Pelosi is a politician, they say dumb shit. Maxine Waters is a politician and someone whose community was hurting, she's going to say things in terms we might not like. Biden just said his opinion when jurors couldn't see it. I don't know what the GOP is saying. To me, it's just a weird distraction from a cop who murdered a civilian and got justice.
                                                                                                    Yeah without the misinformation being injected I don’t know how it was even controversial. You just watch the video and listen to the testimony from the professionals (NOT the paid defense “expert” with checkered past who basically recanted half his speculation under cross) and it is absolutely clear cut. For him to walk would require jurors to not believe their own eyeballs and ears.

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                                                                                                      Yeah without the misinformation being injected I don’t know how it was even controversial. You just watch the video and listen to the testimony from the professionals (NOT the paid defense “expert” with checkered past who basically recanted half his speculation under cross) and it is absolutely clear cut. For him to walk would require jurors to not believe their own eyeballs and ears.
                                                                                                      The folks on the TV didn't put much on his expert being paid. That's SOP I believe. These people don't work for free. If they do, that causes it's own problems. He didnt seem as credible as the other guys though. And I don't recall any negative information about his past being on the record for the jury, only way that info would have gotten to them is if they didn't follow the judge's directions to not watch the news or talk to people about the case.







                                                                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

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