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  • Originally posted by SonofOahu View Post
    I'm guessing in January. That being said, the flu season was really bad, and just because your test came back negative, that doesn't guarantee that you didn't have it (this applies to flu as well as COVID.)

    I was texting with a friend and she said that they tested a patient 4x with the first three tests coming back negative, and the fourth finally showing positive. One thing with this wide-testing initiative is not just the shortage of supplies, it's the shortage of competent clinicians to do the testing.

    These tests almost look like you're going to brain someone, and it doesn't feel pleasant. Anyone who is not a seasoned pro at doing the NP swab is probably going to have a fair amount of false negatives.
    I don't think people appreciate this and think they are just spitting in a 23&Me type kit. We aren't talking two knuckles deep here - we are talking how the hell is Ron Jeremy stuffing it all in there. Normal people aren't going to sign up for multiple experiences unless they have to.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
      Well folks, two weeks ago we here at my retirement village/hotel had our first resident test positive for coronavirus19. It was handled quietly, and, with our social distancing inside "programs", has (to all appearances) stopped right there.

      The average age here is probably on the high side of 80 so this is a big deal for us. Almost by definition, the one infection we had came in from the "outside" and through someone who DIDN'T practice social distancing.

      But, what-the-he!l, we're just a bunch of elders who've passed their point of usefulness ......... and to those of you who do practice the safety precautions: thank you. Sincerely. Bless you.
      Glad you are fine and good to hear common sense approach within a high risk community can nip it in the bud!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Some Irish Bloke View Post
        Anyone else inject themselves with Lysol and snort hand sanitizer? I feel...weird. At least I'm COVID neg. though
        <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sumb3GYuAT8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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        • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
          I don't think people appreciate this and think they are just spitting in a 23&Me type kit. We aren't talking two knuckles deep here - we are talking how the hell is Ron Jeremy stuffing it all in there. Normal people aren't going to sign up for multiple experiences unless they have to.
          Plus how often is an MA applying it vs an RN? Sign me up for the latter to administer. The one w/ the critical thinking skills vs the one w/ a more task oriented position. Most GP or IM offices hire MAs &/or LPNs to save money yet still do the job of an RN.

          Comment


          • You know this is going to happen...

            States that have massive unfunded pension obligations all having the COVID-19 the worst isn’t a coincidence. Guessing they keep the states shut down as long as possible and then point to the damage caused to justify bailouts, including the unrelated pensions. Chicago is already attempting this.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Irishize View Post
              You know this is going to happen...

              States that have massive unfunded pension obligations all having the COVID-19 the worst isn’t a coincidence. Guessing they keep the states shut down as long as possible and then point to the damage caused to justify bailouts, including the unrelated pensions. Chicago is already attempting this.
              Hah - I was just having this conversation with someone about IL; Pritzker extends the shutdown for another month because "the peak has not arrived" but are going to begin allowing elective surgeries. Allowing elective surgeries would use up hospital resources you'd think could be conserved to handle the peak. I'm not saying any one of the ideas is wrong, but taken together it doesn't quite make sense. In reality, its more control for the Gov. & will allow for a bigger bailout check that will inevitably be used to fund some of those obligations.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                I don't think people appreciate this and think they are just spitting in a 23&Me type kit. We aren't talking two knuckles deep here - we are talking how the hell is Ron Jeremy stuffing it all in there. Normal people aren't going to sign up for multiple experiences unless they have to.
                Interim Guidelines for Collecting, Handling, and Testing Clinical Specimens from Persons for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

                Nasopharyngeal (NP) swab/oropharyngeal (OP) swab (about 4" in)



                GI Symptoms
                As has been mentioned, SARS-CoV-2 invades cells throughout the body. A couple of recent studies document the coronavirus in stool samples causing GI symptoms of diarrhea, nausea, vomiting and abdominal discomfort, with possible fecal-oral transmission, and possibly before respiratory symptoms.

                Gastrointestinal symptoms common in COVID-19 patients, Stanford Medicine study reports

                “COVID-19 is probably not just respiratory symptoms like a cough,” Podboy said. “A third of the patients we studied had gastrointestinal symptoms. It’s possible we may be missing a significant portion of patients sick with the coronavirus due to our current testing strategies focusing on respiratory symptoms alone.”
                Triage up until now has focused on people with respiratory symptoms. This also has implication on care and transmission in assisted living facilities.
                Last edited by Legacy; 04-24-2020, 04:38 PM.

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                • Told my wife we took a big HH pay cut due to virus so she'd stop spending. It's working out well. Spending down 40%. I encourage you guys to do the same if you can pull it off.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RDU Irish View Post
                    I don't think people appreciate this and think they are just spitting in a 23&Me type kit. We aren't talking two knuckles deep here - we are talking how the hell is Ron Jeremy stuffing it all in there. Normal people aren't going to sign up for multiple experiences unless they have to.


                    Now just hold still...

                    Comment


                    • “How Bad Might it Get...”

                      https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...eat-depression

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                      • Comment


                        • Originally posted by Irishize View Post
                          Can't we just quarantine the elderly, people with heart and lung problems, and let the rest of us start living life again?
                          The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                          Comment


                          • Cuomo updated the numbers on the antibody study. 14.9% statewide, 24.7% in the city.

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                            • Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post
                              Cuomo updated the numbers on the antibody study. 14.9% statewide, 24.7% in the city.
                              The initial antibody testing results is the best news in this pandemic in awhile.

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                              • Originally posted by InKellyWeTrust View Post
                                The initial antibody testing results is the best news in this pandemic in awhile.
                                Best and scariest at the same time. Essentially shows anyone can infect anyone and effectively have a chain of many links with zero or little symptoms until it preys on someone elderly or with preexisting conditions. Should action upon this data to formulate a new plan to protect the vulnerable while reopening.

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                                • CDC just updated their list of symptoms. Chills, cough, sore throat, headache, and loss of taste/ appetite describes exactly a mysterious illness that knocked me out during December and January. Sickest I've ever been; could barely eat, and ended up losing nearly 20 pounds before I recovered.

                                  So I apparently had the 'Rona before anyone knew what it was. Hoping this means that my family has all been exposed and developed antibodies by this point.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
                                    CDC just updated their list of symptoms. Chills, cough, sore throat, headache, and loss of taste/ appetite describes exactly a mysterious illness that knocked me out during December and January. Sickest I've ever been; could barely eat, and ended up losing nearly 20 pounds before I recovered.

                                    So I apparently had the 'Rona before anyone knew what it was. Hoping this means that my family has all been exposed and developed antibodies by this point.
                                    A good buddy got hit with something harsh like that too when we met up in late Jan in Vegas. Ruined much of the trip. He swears he had it too
                                    This sig will not change until The Browns win the Super Bowl... So get real used to it.

                                    Comment


                                    • Coronavirus in Babies and Kids (Johns Hopkins)

                                      A flu vaccine, a negative Flu test, and Tamiflu not working might indicate it's not influenza.

                                      On another note, if COVID-19 returns in the fall with seasonal influenza, do you think the federal response will be different? Or will states be banding together expecting more of the same? If so, will the states with lower infection rates now be more susceptible? Should we just let this cycle through like the flu? Will some states just not shutdown their economies?

                                      Could Azar, Fauci and Birks be fired and replaced with "acting" heads?
                                      Last edited by Legacy; 04-27-2020, 12:27 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Legacy View Post
                                        Coronavirus in Babies and Kids (Johns Hopkins)

                                        A flu vaccine, a negative Flu test, and Tamiflu not working might indicate it's not influenza.

                                        On another note, if COVID-19 returns in the fall with seasonal influenza, do you think the federal response will be different? Or will states be banding together expecting more of the same? If so, will the states with lower infection rates be more susceptible?

                                        Could Azar, Fauci and Birks be fired and replaced with "acting" heads?
                                        Sounds like Covid is here to stay much like the flu so once a vaccine is in place and respirators are in place one would think our lives with it will look much like how we handle flu,... I hope.
                                        This sig will not change until The Browns win the Super Bowl... So get real used to it.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post
                                          Cuomo updated the numbers on the antibody study. 14.9% statewide, 24.7% in the city.
                                          In the city that would be approximately 2.1 million infections.

                                          Currently they state they are at a death rate of 7.679374999999999 (12,287 confirmed deaths in 160k cases)

                                          If you apply that same rate to 2.1 mil that would be 161,267 deaths.

                                          Thoughts anyone?
                                          Once we truly come together as a family, nothing can stop us. It’s my job to make sure we become that family.”

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by goldandblue View Post
                                            In the city that would be approximately 2.1 million infections.

                                            Currently they state they are at a death rate of 7.679374999999999 (12,287 confirmed deaths in 160k cases)

                                            If you apply that same rate to 2.1 mil that would be 161,267 deaths.

                                            Thoughts anyone?
                                            I'm not following. That death total number remains the same. 2.1MM infections sounds about right. Tons of people couldn't get tested because symptoms were mild and then you have a massive amount of asymptomatic. It would make the death rate 0.58%, still much deadlier than the flu, but also significantly less deadly than we've been told.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by goldandblue View Post
                                              In the city that would be approximately 2.1 million infections.

                                              Currently they state they are at a death rate of 7.679374999999999 (12,287 confirmed deaths in 160k cases)

                                              If you apply that same rate to 2.1 mil that would be 161,267 deaths.

                                              Thoughts anyone?
                                              So either you have a bunch of people who are going to get really sick in the near term OR the death rate is wrong, because your denominator isn't 160,000 cases, its 2,100,000 cases. I think the later is more logical.

                                              If you also assume the premise that those who are most susceptible to infection and death (those who are immuno-compromised - elderly, etc.) are falling ill earlier in the curve, then you would see the death rate further decline over time as those who are better equipped to fight off the virus get sick later and recover. I.e. the death rate is disproportionately high on the front side of the curve because the most at-risk population represent a greater portion of the ill.
                                              Last edited by Legacy93; 04-27-2020, 01:32 PM.

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by ACamp1900 View Post
                                                Sounds like Covid is here to stay much like the flu so once a vaccine is in place and respirators are in place one would think our lives with it will look much like how we handle flu,... I hope.
                                                I wouldn’t count on a vaccine in the next few years or maybe ever. If there have truly been 30+ mutations identified, one vaccine isn’t going to prevent them all. I know it’s heresy to compare it to influenza but may a vaccine that doesn’t target the exact mutation would at least lessen the impact of COVID.

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                                                • https://www.postbulletin.com/news/bu...0445c078f.html

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                                                  • Study from Notre Dame.
                                                    New research suggests US may be at critical juncture of pandemic response | News | Notre Dame News | University of Notre Dame
                                                    https://news.nd.edu/news/new-researc...emic-response/

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                                                    • I had this sent to me by a buddy who has been in the medical field for over twenty years. Video is over an hour, but worth the watch. These two doctors say data we now have on Covid does not support our current shelter in place measures. The thing that struct me as interesting and concerning is when they discuss how we are weakening our immune system by sheltering in place and our bodies might not be prepared to fight like they should be once released back in the world. I know my body is not as strong as it was two months ago.

                                                      https://pjmedia.com/trending/watch-c...ber-of-deaths/
                                                      Last edited by yankeehater; 04-27-2020, 05:56 PM.

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                                                      • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post
                                                        I had this sent to me by a buddy who has been in the medical field for over twenty years. Video is over an hour, but worth the watch. These two doctors say data we now have on Covid does not support our current shelter in place measures. The thing that struct me as interesting and concerning is when they discuss how we are weakening our immune system by sheltering in place and our bodies might not be prepared to fight like they should be once released back in the world. I know my body is not as strong as it was two months ago.

                                                        https://pjmedia.com/trending/watch-c...ber-of-deaths/
                                                        Multiple articles suggest this.
                                                        Brotherhood may fade, but it will never run

                                                        Comment


                                                        • Now CDC is saying food supply workers can keep working following "potential exposure" to SARSCoV2, as long as they're asymptomatic.

                                                          Really?

                                                          https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...employers.html

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                                                          • Those 2 yahoos may face professional harm for the straight malpractice committed in their youtube video. https://www.acep.org/corona/COVID-19...isinformation/

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                                                            • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post
                                                              I had this sent to me by a buddy who has been in the medical field for over twenty years. Video is over an hour, but worth the watch. These two doctors say data we now have on Covid does not support our current shelter in place measures. The thing that struct me as interesting and concerning is when they discuss how we are weakening our immune system by sheltering in place and our bodies might not be prepared to fight like they should be once released back in the world. I know my body is not as strong as it was two months ago.

                                                              https://pjmedia.com/trending/watch-c...ber-of-deaths/
                                                              That article says that the 2 doctors who conducted that study, "specifically noted that the difference in the number of deaths between Sweden, with limited restrictions, and Norway, which locked down, is not statistically significant."
                                                              "Lockdown versus non-lockdown did not produce a statistically different number of deaths. That is the bottom line," said Erickson.

                                                              I did a quick search on Johns Hopkins Website, which is a major source being used by the government and is the most credible source of data collection on Covid 19that I've come across.

                                                              Sweden (Limited restrictions)
                                                              Total cases of Covid: 18,926
                                                              Deaths : 2,274
                                                              Fatality rate : 12%

                                                              Norway (Locked Down)
                                                              Total cases of Covid: 7,554
                                                              Deaths : 205
                                                              Fatality rate : 2.7%

                                                              That fatality rate in Sweden is high. Especially considering that it's an absolute unknown if Covid-19 cases develop any kind of immunity. These doctors and Sweden are banking on that. No thanks. I don't want to be in that science experiment.

                                                              They own 7 urgent healthcare facilities. I wonder why they came to that conclusion? I don't know but those doctors look like a couple of mafia members.
                                                              I'm going to continue to get my data from experts and scientists. Certainly not a couple of "wise guy" doctors who own 7 urgent care facilities.

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                                                              • Originally posted by PerthDomer View Post
                                                                Those 2 yahoos may face professional harm for the straight malpractice committed in their youtube video. https://www.acep.org/corona/COVID-19...isinformation/
                                                                I'm so glad you found this! I read this right after my earlier post . The "this is complete bulllshit alarm rang pretty fast". As Soon as I saw the photo of the good doctors and the mention of them owning 7 healthcare facilities in the first few sentences.
                                                                Last edited by arahop; 04-27-2020, 10:05 PM.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • “I’ve Worked the Coronavirus Front Line....”

                                                                  https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/ive-wo...rt-opening-up/

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                                                                  • Originally posted by arahop View Post
                                                                    I'm so glad you found this! I read this right after my earlier post . The "this is complete bulllshit alarm rang pretty fast". As Soon as I saw the photo of the good doctors and the mention of them owning 7 healthcare facilities in the first few sentences.
                                                                    I find it ironic people are questioning the financial motives of these two doctors yet I do not hear the same of Dr. Fauci.

                                                                    All I know is these doctors are echoing what Hoag, Kaiser and St. Josephs are here in California. They are making the rounds on local media imploring for people to bring in their sick family members. Emergency rooms and hospitals are empty. They are seeing victims of stroke and heart attack 3 and 4 days after the initial incident. By then they are stating it is too late. The window for corrective action has all but passed. I am glad these doctors spoke up because one of the local news show interviewed a nurse and they had to hide her identify for fear of reprisal. All she did was say they were losing their jobs because one wing at her hospital is now completely dark.

                                                                    My cousin works in the medical industry in Colorado. Her duties take her throughout three different counties. They are experiencing the same there. She has also been outspoken about her beliefs and the overreaction. I called her the day of our shutdown out here. She told me this would not greatly affect 99% of the population. It will affect the elderly, those with compromised immune systems and the obese. People with obesity tend to have underlying conditions like diabetes, hypertension and heart disease. She advised me to load up on vitamin C, Zinc and Melatonin like you should every flu season.

                                                                    Even in the hardest hit area, NYC, the numbers did not come close to rising to the levels once first predicted. Most of the other hotspots were because the virus infiltrated assisted living facilities which all the experts said would be the most vulnerable people. Not sure why the Governors of NY, NJ and Cali allowed Covid positive patients back into their assisted living facilities, but that conversation is probably best in another forum.
                                                                    Last edited by yankeehater; 04-27-2020, 11:37 PM.

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                                                                    • The issue is the video is peppered with absolute falsehoods. Like there are arguements the shutdown is impacting access to care (it seems that the young have mortality improvement because trauma is way way down) but time sensitive things that don't scream time sensitive to john Q public like chest pain or difficulty moving an arm gets missed. The thing is patients with stroke/MI tend to be older with comorbidities etc.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • Originally posted by arahop View Post
                                                                        That article says that the 2 doctors who conducted that study, "specifically noted that the difference in the number of deaths between Sweden, with limited restrictions, and Norway, which locked down, is not statistically significant."
                                                                        "Lockdown versus non-lockdown did not produce a statistically different number of deaths. That is the bottom line," said Erickson.

                                                                        I did a quick search on Johns Hopkins Website, which is a major source being used by the government and is the most credible source of data collection on Covid 19that I've come across.

                                                                        Sweden (Limited restrictions)
                                                                        Total cases of Covid: 18,926
                                                                        Deaths : 2,274
                                                                        Fatality rate : 12%

                                                                        Norway (Locked Down)
                                                                        Total cases of Covid: 7,554
                                                                        Deaths : 205
                                                                        Fatality rate : 2.7%

                                                                        That fatality rate in Sweden is high. Especially considering that it's an absolute unknown if Covid-19 cases develop any kind of immunity. These doctors and Sweden are banking on that. No thanks. I don't want to be in that science experiment.

                                                                        They own 7 urgent healthcare facilities. I wonder why they came to that conclusion? I don't know but those doctors look like a couple of mafia members.
                                                                        I'm going to continue to get my data from experts and scientists. Certainly not a couple of "wise guy" doctors who own 7 urgent care facilities.
                                                                        Originally posted by PerthDomer View Post
                                                                        Those 2 yahoos may face professional harm for the straight malpractice committed in their youtube video. https://www.acep.org/corona/COVID-19...isinformation/
                                                                        Originally posted by arahop View Post
                                                                        I'm so glad you found this! I read this right after my earlier post . The "this is complete bulllshit alarm rang pretty fast". As Soon as I saw the photo of the good doctors and the mention of them owning 7 healthcare facilities in the first few sentences.
                                                                        Let's not let things like facts, statistics, and science get in the way of some good old fashioned feels.

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                                                                        • Originally posted by SonofOahu View Post
                                                                          Let's not let things like facts, statistics, and science get in the way of some good old fashioned feels.
                                                                          things aren't always what they appear

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                                                                          • https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01266-z

                                                                            Many people can use scientific jargon and titles to prop up misinformation making it incredibly difficult to discern the truth.

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                                                                            • Originally posted by SonofOahu View Post
                                                                              Let's not let things like facts, statistics, and science get in the way of some good old fashioned feels.
                                                                              I’m not going to argue the merits of lockdown vs no lockdown especially in the name of Sweden because they have very unique demographics that allow them to do their method (one example is 50% of Sweden lives alone). But it’s also important we operate with full stats and facts, as you said, and the stats for Sweden don’t really allow any comparisons because they only test the most severe cases. Norway has conducted double the tests. Sweden’s health chief has said approximately 30% of Stockholm has been infected. That’s 350K people. If all those deaths were in Stockholm, which they weren’t, but for easy math purposes we will say they were, that brings the death rate to 0.57%. Still very high! But nowhere near as deadly as speculated and what the current stats portray.. Coincidentally, NYC if that antibody test was accurate would have had a death rate of exactly 0.57%.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                              • Originally posted by Irishize View Post
                                                                                “I’ve Worked the Coronavirus Front Line....”

                                                                                https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/ive-wo...rt-opening-up/
                                                                                https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...virus.amp.html

                                                                                Open it up! Give the ER a chance to catch their breath??? Nah

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                                                                                • I'm already kicking myself for bothering to post this but it felt to me to be one sort of testing the wind of America just now. I read the story about the lady physician who apparently killed herself in (supposed) mentally breaking over the stress of her job in the NYC emergency ward. Firstly, I see no reason to disbelieve that this can happen. People faced with horrible unrelenting negative circumstances almost MUST have breaking points. This in no way demeans this doctor in my eyes. There seem to be many (I must refer to them as utterly unknowledgeable jerks who have never done anything themselves like she was faced with) morons who are criticizing her for "weakness." WAY off base, and completely beyond my ken as to why they are motivated to make these unfeeling comments. But that's not my point here.

                                                                                  After reading the article which has no overtly political commentary in it, I felt that maybe reading the comments (there were over a thousand) might be a simple glimpse of America just now. So I read a couple of hundred (maybe more, I didn't keep count.) The majority of those remarks were THANK GOODNESS simple expressions of praise for the doctor's service and condolences to the family --- if they were all like that I'd have come away with a pretty good feeling about where we're at. But a rather large number of people engaged in denial and conspiracy --- almost as if they were programmed to disbelieve anything in the article. For this sort of article that was a bit disturbing. Worse than that (for me) there were around three dozen comments which got overtly (name-mentioning) political. None of them had any defensible connectivity to the article whether a "right" or a "left" remark. For a while as I read, none of these were left-leaning idiot remarks, but ultimately I stayed at it and found three. There were twenty some right-leaning crazy comments (accusing every well-known blue politician of being behind this, or accusing this to be an anti-Trump plot --- even though no one anywhere had mentioned him about anything.)

                                                                                  ALL of that is sick. In my opinion, it is the outward sign of a sickness much more threatening to our country than the coronavirus (and that's saying a lot.) To those who'd object that these are just a couple dozen morons on the internet, I'd say that they are rather an iceberg tip of many tens of thousands of deranged citizens who can no longer process anything without a weird political lens to color it. ... and, no, I don't believe that it has always been this way.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • Revisiting the 1918 Spanish Flu

                                                                                    The history of the Spanish Flu is worth revisiting. The first known case was at Fort Riley, Kansas, spreading quickly among soldiers there and spread to Europe when soldiers traveled by ship there for WW1. The close contact in the contained environments allowed the rapid spread. France, Britain and China have also been proposed as the origins.
                                                                                    First cases reported in deadly Spanish flu pandemic

                                                                                    (The Swine Flu of 2009 also originated in the U.S.)

                                                                                    The first wave of the "Spanish Flu" was not particularly deadly. The virus mutated and by the fall emerged as a more deadly variant and unlike a normal seasonal flu, which mostly claims victims among the very young and very old, the second wave of the Spanish flu exhibited what’s called a “W curve” with high numbers of deaths among the young and old, but also a huge spike in the middle composed of otherwise healthy 25- to 35-year-olds in the prime of their life.

                                                                                    Victims died within hours or days of developing symptoms, their skin turning blue and their lungs filling with fluid that caused them to suffocate.The virus infected 500 million people worldwide and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims mostly in the second wave. Decades later were scientists able to explain the phenomenon now known as “cytokine explosion.”
                                                                                    Why the Second Wave of the 1918 Spanish Flu Was So Deadly

                                                                                    Cities approached containment in different ways with Philadelphia refusing to cancel a parade that spread the virus and St. Louis and San Francisco adopting stringent The mortality rate in St. Louis was only one-eighth of Philadelphia’s death rate at its worst.
                                                                                    Masks were mandated in SF and people were arrested in they were in public without one.
                                                                                    How U.S. Cities Tried to Halt the Spread of the 1918 Spanish Flu

                                                                                    The third wave of the Spanish flu struck SF in January 1919. Businesses and theater owners fought back against public gathering orders and "flattening the curve" measures and wearing masks. The 2007 analysis found that if San Francisco had kept all of its anti-flu protections in place through the spring of 1919, it could have reduced deaths by 90 percent.
                                                                                    Last edited by Legacy; 04-28-2020, 10:02 AM.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                    • Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                                                                      I'm already kicking myself for bothering to post this but it felt to me to be one sort of testing the wind of America just now. I read the story about the lady physician who apparently killed herself in (supposed) mentally breaking over the stress of her job in the NYC emergency ward. Firstly, I see no reason to disbelieve that this can happen. People faced with horrible unrelenting negative circumstances almost MUST have breaking points. This in no way demeans this doctor in my eyes. There seem to be many (I must refer to them as utterly unknowledgeable jerks who have never done anything themselves like she was faced with) morons who are criticizing her for "weakness." WAY off base, and completely beyond my ken as to why they are motivated to make these unfeeling comments. But that's not my point here.

                                                                                      After reading the article which has no overtly political commentary in it, I felt that maybe reading the comments (there were over a thousand) might be a simple glimpse of America just now. So I read a couple of hundred (maybe more, I didn't keep count.) The majority of those remarks were THANK GOODNESS simple expressions of praise for the doctor's service and condolences to the family --- if they were all like that I'd have come away with a pretty good feeling about where we're at. But a rather large number of people engaged in denial and conspiracy --- almost as if they were programmed to disbelieve anything in the article. For this sort of article that was a bit disturbing. Worse than that (for me) there were around three dozen comments which got overtly (name-mentioning) political. None of them had any defensible connectivity to the article whether a "right" or a "left" remark. For a while as I read, none of these were left-leaning idiot remarks, but ultimately I stayed at it and found three. There were twenty some right-leaning crazy comments (accusing every well-known blue politician of being behind this, or accusing this to be an anti-Trump plot --- even though no one anywhere had mentioned him about anything.)

                                                                                      ALL of that is sick. In my opinion, it is the outward sign of a sickness much more threatening to our country than the coronavirus (and that's saying a lot.) To those who'd object that these are just a couple dozen morons on the internet, I'd say that they are rather an iceberg tip of many tens of thousands of deranged citizens who can no longer process anything without a weird political lens to color it. ... and, no, I don't believe that it has always been this way.
                                                                                      I can't agree with this enough. We need to end the 2 party political scheme that is tearing our country apart.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                      • Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                                                                        I'm already kicking myself for bothering to post this but it felt to me to be one sort of testing the wind of America just now. I read the story about the lady physician who apparently killed herself in (supposed) mentally breaking over the stress of her job in the NYC emergency ward. Firstly, I see no reason to disbelieve that this can happen. People faced with horrible unrelenting negative circumstances almost MUST have breaking points. This in no way demeans this doctor in my eyes. There seem to be many (I must refer to them as utterly unknowledgeable jerks who have never done anything themselves like she was faced with) morons who are criticizing her for "weakness." WAY off base, and completely beyond my ken as to why they are motivated to make these unfeeling comments. But that's not my point here.

                                                                                        After reading the article which has no overtly political commentary in it, I felt that maybe reading the comments (there were over a thousand) might be a simple glimpse of America just now. So I read a couple of hundred (maybe more, I didn't keep count.) The majority of those remarks were THANK GOODNESS simple expressions of praise for the doctor's service and condolences to the family --- if they were all like that I'd have come away with a pretty good feeling about where we're at. But a rather large number of people engaged in denial and conspiracy --- almost as if they were programmed to disbelieve anything in the article. For this sort of article that was a bit disturbing. Worse than that (for me) there were around three dozen comments which got overtly (name-mentioning) political. None of them had any defensible connectivity to the article whether a "right" or a "left" remark. For a while as I read, none of these were left-leaning idiot remarks, but ultimately I stayed at it and found three. There were twenty some right-leaning crazy comments (accusing every well-known blue politician of being behind this, or accusing this to be an anti-Trump plot --- even though no one anywhere had mentioned him about anything.)

                                                                                        ALL of that is sick. In my opinion, it is the outward sign of a sickness much more threatening to our country than the coronavirus (and that's saying a lot.) To those who'd object that these are just a couple dozen morons on the internet, I'd say that they are rather an iceberg tip of many tens of thousands of deranged citizens who can no longer process anything without a weird political lens to color it. ... and, no, I don't believe that it has always been this way.
                                                                                        From On the Primacy of the Common Good: Against the Personalists by Charles de Koninck:

                                                                                        A society made up of persons who love their private good above the common good, or who identify the common good with the private good, is a society, not of free men, but of tyrants--"and thus the whole people become as it were one tyrant"--who would use force on one another and whose eventual chief would be the shrewdest and strongest of tyrants, his subjects being only frustrated tyrants. Refusal of the primacy of the common good proceeds, at bottom, from the distrust and scorn of persons."
                                                                                        This is a feature, not a bug, of political liberalism.

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
                                                                                          CDC just updated their list of symptoms. Chills, cough, sore throat, headache, and loss of taste/ appetite describes exactly a mysterious illness that knocked me out during December and January. Sickest I've ever been; could barely eat, and ended up losing nearly 20 pounds before I recovered.

                                                                                          So I apparently had the 'Rona before anyone knew what it was. Hoping this means that my family has all been exposed and developed antibodies by this point.
                                                                                          Same thing happened to my Mom -- she was negative for the seasonal flu and they couldn't nail down her diagnosis. Sickest I have ever seen her... I was afraid she was going to need to be hospitalized.

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                                                                                          • The Financial Times just published an article titled "Global coronavirus death toll could be 60% higher than reported":

                                                                                            The death toll from coronavirus may be almost 60 per cent higher than reported in official counts, according to an FT analysis of overall fatalities during the pandemic in 14 countries.

                                                                                            Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across these locations, considerably higher than the 77,000 official Covid-19 deaths reported for the same places and time periods.

                                                                                            If the same level of under-reporting observed in these countries was happening worldwide, the global Covid-19 death toll would rise from the current official total of 201,000 to as high as 318,000.


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                                                                                            • Originally posted by Old Man Mike View Post
                                                                                              I'd say that they are rather an iceberg tip of many tens of thousands of deranged citizens who can no longer process anything without a weird political lens to color it. ....
                                                                                              Originally posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
                                                                                              This is a feature, not a bug, of political liberalism.
                                                                                              <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jne9t8sHpUc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                                                                                              Funnier than you in 2012.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post
                                                                                                I

                                                                                                Even in the hardest hit area, NYC, the numbers did not come close to rising to the levels once first predicted.
                                                                                                That's because we shut down the country. If we would have done nothing, those models would likely have been spot on.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                                                                  That's because we shut down the country. If we would have done nothing, those models would likely have been spot on.
                                                                                                  There is absolutely no way of knowing if the models likely would have / would not have been spot on - that's pure conjecture. You can't validate a "what-if" scenario using that logic. The models also haven't been particularly accurate at projecting what would happen with the shut-down. Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with your point that contemporaneously with the shut down of the country the spread lessened; that can be proven out using the data. I just disagree with the logical leap that the models would have been accurate - I would argue that given the results from the antibody testing in NYC, it is more likely that the models were over-estimating the fatality and hospitalization rates.
                                                                                                  Last edited by Legacy93; 04-28-2020, 03:36 PM.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by Legacy93 View Post
                                                                                                    There is absolutely no way of knowing if the models likely would have / would not have been spot on - that's pure conjecture. You can't validate a "what-if" scenario using that logic. The models also haven't been particularly accurate at projecting what would happen with the shut-down. Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with your point that contemporaneously with the shut down of the country the spread lessened; that can be proven out using the data. I just disagree with the logical leap that the models would have been accurate - I would argue that given the results from the antibody testing in NYC, it is more likely that the models were over-estimating the fatality and hospitalization rates.
                                                                                                    Aren’t these models literally a set of predictions based on ‘what-if scenarios?’ Short of Justice letting Roni rip across the United States I’m not sure we have anything more accurate to go by. The high death rates predicted would have been caused by overwhelmed hospitals. That largely was held at bay (so far) because we social distanced. You can’t use the actual numbers that discount those ‘what if scenarios” that were prevented. You are comparing apples and oranges.

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                                                                                                    • Originally posted by GoIrish41 View Post
                                                                                                      That's because we shut down the country. If we would have done nothing, those models would likely have been spot on.
                                                                                                      It appears millions of New Yorkers had it and didnt even know. I have a hard time believing millions would have died.

                                                                                                      Hell I should take the antibody test.
                                                                                                      Based Mullet Kid owns

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