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'19 HI ATH Marist Liufau (Notre Dame Signee)

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  • Originally posted by arrowryan View Post
    Because football in shorts and 7on7 isn't D1 football. There could be a multitude of reasons why he isn't playing: speed of the game, playbook, emergence of veteran players, etc
    I posted the same question in his thread. I think Safety is difficult to play in this system. A lot of learning is necessary. Jalen Elliot wasn't great last year. He improved a lot this year but still has had some bad angles, placement, etc. the safety is essentially the QB of the defense in the 4-2-5.

    Comment


    • OK. So he is an edge rusher in his video without putting his hand on the ground. I apologize! I guess my point, which a lot have answered, is where does he fit in. He is 210, if that, so he will need years to get up to the weight to play that position at ND. I am not seeing a lot of video of him running sideline to sideline which I want to see from a prospective rover. I will just have to believe in the coaches on this one. For me, I would take a Cade Albreight, who might possibly be Orange County Defensive POY, over him if you want an edge rusher. Check out his SR film. Bigger and more athletic already.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NDIrish88 View Post
        I posted the same question in his thread. I think Safety is difficult to play in this system. A lot of learning is necessary. Jalen Elliot wasn't great last year. He improved a lot this year but still has had some bad angles, placement, etc. the safety is essentially the QB of the defense in the 4-2-5.
        This is why people need to quit getting so enamored with rankings and stars; this Notre Dame defense is exactly why we should "trust the process" and expect the players to turn the corner eventually. For all we know, Derrick Allen could be swimming and feeling overwhelmed with the academic and football workload. I wouldn't be surprised if this is how most true frosh feel at ND.

        Jalen Elliot, Nick Coleman, Khalid Kareem, Julian Okwara, Ian Book, Alize Mack, Chase Claypool, and Miles Boykin are great examples of guys that just need to establish themselves with the coaches, players, and program before they make themselves known on the field.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pops Freshenmeyer View Post
          I wouldn't mind another James Onwualu. He would have killed it at Rover.
          Dude was a good linebacker by his senior year, even with BVG coaching him most of his time.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by IrishFanJMercy View Post
            Anyone know what the deal is with Derrick Allen as to why he isn't getting time this year? He tore it up in camps and stuff I just thought he would be a guy who could have made an impact this year
            He has a lot of talent in front of him at LB. Most believe he grows into an LB and he wasn't going to unseat Gliman or Elliot at S, given how they've played this year. They are true juniors with a lot of experience. Allen would have to be incredible to take over at safety or LB this year. We have two guys who could be in the NFL next year and a 3rd that has played very well as a first year starter.

            Griffith was fortunate that Coleman tore his ACL because he wouldn't have received many nickels snaps with Coleman healthy.

            We have so many quality freshman who haven't played this year because the staff is finally getting this recruiting thing down.

            1. Never leave gaps in a class
            2. Develop this talent with staff who are competent

            Through Kelly's early tenure, he failed at one or more of these every year. We'd whiff at positions or we'd have poor coaches who either sucked at their job or at recruiting.

            I believe he's finally assembled a staff that enjoys all the requirements of the job. They are excelling at it. Our recruiting in the last couple classes has been complete and we're putting a compelling product on the field.

            Let's hope we can continue stringing together 10+ win seasons and see if Kelly can get over the next hurdle. He's managed to figure out at every other stop. It's taken him longer at ND but I think he's finally there and I think he's poised for the next jump.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post
              OK. So he is an edge rusher in his video without putting his hand on the ground. I apologize! I guess my point, which a lot have answered, is where does he fit in. He is 210, if that, so he will need years to get up to the weight to play that position at ND. I am not seeing a lot of video of him running sideline to sideline which I want to see from a prospective rover. I will just have to believe in the coaches on this one. For me, I would take a Cade Albreight, who might possibly be Orange County Defensive POY, over him if you want an edge rusher. Check out his SR film. Bigger and more athletic already.
              If you want to see more film of him playing in space and why people think he can play Rover, check out his sophomore film. When you look at all of his film in totality, he looks like a very dynamic athlete with a good football IQ who could play several positions depending on how his body fills out. It seems like he is still growing a decent amount and has the frame to fill out, so I think that is why some are projecting Buck or even Drop, but if he were to stop growing I think you could easily project his skill set to the Rover position with some more coaching on running with someone in coverage.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NDIrish88 View Post
                I posted the same question in his thread. I think Safety is difficult to play in this system. A lot of learning is necessary. Jalen Elliot wasn't great last year. He improved a lot this year but still has had some bad angles, placement, etc. the safety is essentially the QB of the defense in the 4-2-5.
                I do think under the Clark Lea/Mike Elko model that the safety position is very difficult to pick up. Last year Jordan Genmark-Heath started the bowl game as a true freshman, but until that point it was really Nick Coleman, Jalen Elliott, and Devin Studstill getting all the snaps at the two safety spots and if the game was in hand then I think JGH came in a little (Iím not positive on snap counts, so correct me if Iím wrong). I think in an ideal world, ND isnít playing a true freshman safety in this defense moving forward.

                2018
                JR Jalen Elliott
                RS SO Alohi Gilman
                SR Nick Coleman
                JR Devin Studstill

                2019
                SR Jalen Elliott
                RS JR Alohi Gilman
                SR Devin Studstill
                SO Houston Griffith/RS FR Derrik Allen

                2020
                RS SR Alohi Gilman
                JR Houston Griffith
                RS SO Derrik Allen
                RS FR Kyle Hamilton

                This is a total guess at the two deep but I think the staff wants guys whoíve been in the system and have learned all the concepts to be running out there. Obviously you want to put your most talented guys out there, but they want guys who know the defense and are not swimming in the playbook. Next year Devin Studstill could get passed up and a bunch of guys can get passed up, but I think the staff has recruited to the point of they have great depth and a great deal of talent where they can have competition at the safety spots for PT and guys can also learn the system at a comfortable pace without having to be thrown on the field. Derrik Allen is a super talented prospect and I think heíll see the field at some point but maybe this defense and the academic rigors of ND were a big adjustment for him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NDMIA View Post
                  I do think under the Clark Lea/Mike Elko model that the safety position is very difficult to pick up. Last year Jordan Genmark-Heath started the bowl game as a true freshman, but until that point it was really Nick Coleman, Jalen Elliott, and Devin Studstill getting all the snaps at the two safety spots and if the game was in hand then I think JGH came in a little (Iím not positive on snap counts, so correct me if Iím wrong). I think in an ideal world, ND isnít playing a true freshman safety in this defense moving forward.

                  2018
                  JR Jalen Elliott
                  RS SO Alohi Gilman
                  SR Nick Coleman
                  JR Devin Studstill

                  2019
                  SR Jalen Elliott
                  RS JR Alohi Gilman
                  SR Devin Studstill
                  SO Houston Griffith/RS FR Derrik Allen

                  2020
                  RS SR Alohi Gilman
                  JR Houston Griffith
                  RS SO Derrik Allen
                  RS FR Kyle Hamilton

                  This is a total guess at the two deep but I think the staff wants guys whoíve been in the system and have learned all the concepts to be running out there. Obviously you want to put your most talented guys out there, but they want guys who know the defense and are not swimming in the playbook. Next year Devin Studstill could get passed up and a bunch of guys can get passed up, but I think the staff has recruited to the point of they have great depth and a great deal of talent where they can have competition at the safety spots for PT and guys can also learn the system at a comfortable pace without having to be thrown on the field. Derrik Allen is a super talented prospect and I think heíll see the field at some point but maybe this defense and the academic rigors of ND were a big adjustment for him.
                  If still here. If he keeps improving his skillset from where he is now currently, I wouldn't be surprised seeing him heading to the NFL after next yr. He would surely have his degree by then. I dunno, just maybe he'd stay for the 5th yr.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by irish4ever View Post
                    If still here. If he keeps improving his skillset from where he is now currently, I wouldn't be surprised seeing him heading to the NFL after next yr. He would surely have his degree by then. I dunno, just maybe he'd stay for the 5th yr.
                    Agreed, in which case, ND might have Allen & Griffith as their starting safeties in their 3rd years on campus which would be awesome to watch.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NDMIA View Post
                      Agreed, in which case, ND might have Allen & Griffith as their starting safeties in their 3rd years on campus which would be awesome to watch.
                      I'm certain I've read a number of times that Allen will likely grow into an LB. Is he possibly there already? Or does he look like he's stopped growing in girth?

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                      • Originally posted by Veritate Duce Progredi View Post
                        Griffith was fortunate that Coleman tore his ACL because he wouldn't have received many nickels snaps with Coleman healthy.
                        Crawford

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                        • Originally posted by SouthSideChiDomer View Post
                          If you want to see more film of him playing in space and why people think he can play Rover, check out his sophomore film. When you look at all of his film in totality, he looks like a very dynamic athlete with a good football IQ who could play several positions depending on how his body fills out. It seems like he is still growing a decent amount and has the frame to fill out, so I think that is why some are projecting Buck or even Drop, but if he were to stop growing I think you could easily project his skill set to the Rover position with some more coaching on running with someone in coverage.
                          Thank you! I will check it out.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FightingIrishLover7 View Post
                            Crawford
                            Derp, thanks.

                            The Poly pipeline is in full force at ND! It's nice to make inroads to a predominantly West Coast community. Manti and Toma were really the tipping point for this and Polian deserves a ton of credit here.

                            We get irritated at special teams but I believe they were the first Polynesian players to scorn the west coast schools in favor of ND.

                            Since their time Kona, Gilman, MTA, Moala and now Liufau (hope I didn't miss anyone?) Was Luatua Polynesian?. All of them have been players for us. The success rate of the Polynesian players in our program is incredible. Gilman has just started to make h is mark on the field and Moala is getting rave reviews from coaches.
                            Last edited by Veritate Duce Progredi; 11-15-2018, 11:22 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Veritate Duce Progredi View Post
                              Derp, thanks.

                              The Poly pipeline is in full force at ND! It's nice to make inroads to a predominantly West Coast community. Manti and Toma were really the tipping point for this and Polian deserves a ton of credit here.

                              We get irritated at special teams but I believe they were the first Polynesian players to scorn the west coast schools in favor of ND.

                              Since their time Kona, Gilman, MTA, Moala and now Liufau (hope I didn't miss anyone?) Was Luatua Polynesian?. All of them have been players for us. The success rate of the Polynesian players in our program is incredible. Gilman has just started to make h is mark on the field and Moala is getting rave reviews from coaches.
                              Yes he is, but was from Cali.

                              You left off Utupo who is also Polynesian, but from Cali. Damn bro you are having a rough day ;)

                              Comment


                              • Man... reminds me exactly of Troy Polamalu.
                                ďThe more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war.Ē
                                ― Hyman G. Rickover

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by IrishFanJMercy View Post
                                  Anyone know what the deal is with Derrick Allen as to why he isn't getting time this year? He tore it up in camps and stuff I just thought he would be a guy who could have made an impact this year
                                  As much as I love Derrick Allen and think his upside is tremendous whether he's a giant SS or moves down to LB. Honestly who would he have played over this season? I think he always needed a redshirt season to get his body right and have him put on the necassary muscle and body type to play in this defense. I don't think anything is wrong with Allen at all. He's got a very bright future in South Bend and it's kind of been known this season he is a little disappointed he is a taking a redshirt this season.

                                  Having Allen, Griffith and Hamilton at safety is just something ND hasn't had in a long time. There are also a lot of body types on this roster that are similar to Allen with Moala, Roberston, Simon, JWO, Ovie,

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by GBdomer View Post
                                    As much as I love Derrick Allen and think his upside is tremendous whether he's a giant SS or moves down to LB. Honestly who would he have played over this season? I think he always needed a redshirt season to get his body right and have him put on the necassary muscle and body type to play in this defense. I don't think anything is wrong with Allen at all. He's got a very bright future in South Bend and it's kind of been known this season he is a little disappointed he is a taking a redshirt this season.

                                    Having Allen, Griffith and Hamilton at safety is just something ND hasn't had in a long time. There are also a lot of body types on this roster that are similar to Allen with Moala, Roberston, Simon, JWO, Ovie,
                                    Hamilton is the big name but don't forget about Ajavon. Who knows how ready he'll be. Do we know who the EEs are?

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by yankeehater View Post
                                      OK. So he is an edge rusher in his video without putting his hand on the ground. I apologize! I guess my point, which a lot have answered, is where does he fit in. He is 210, if that, so he will need years to get up to the weight to play that position at ND. I am not seeing a lot of video of him running sideline to sideline which I want to see from a prospective rover. I will just have to believe in the coaches on this one. For me, I would take a Cade Albreight, who might possibly be Orange County Defensive POY, over him if you want an edge rusher. Check out his SR film. Bigger and more athletic already.
                                      As of now it's Rover/Buck, there is a natural progression there that Elko/Lea seem to like.

                                      And I don't want to be a dick but once again, I'm really confused as to what you are watching. In his highlight video (by my count could've missed one or two) he's only lined up as a "ROLB" or would be counted as a part of the DL (4 down lineman), 14 times. He's lined up in another position 17 times. So over half that tape is not of him playing a ROLB position.

                                      Lastly, just because a player is lined up on the edge (blitzing the C gap), doesn't make them part of the DL. In fact a lot of those plays he's doing exactly what we'd do with our Rover (not named Asmar Bilal), overload a blitz to one side. Or with our Buck, blitz the A or B gaps. A lot of similarities there with how this scheme has used Rover and Bucks.
                                      Last edited by Luckylucci; 11-15-2018, 01:31 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Veritate Duce Progredi View Post
                                        Hamilton is the big name but don't forget about Ajavon. Who knows how ready he'll be. Do we know who the EEs are?
                                        Hamilton is the gem of this class IMO. I really like Ajavon around the ball and laying a hat on someone. I really wonder if he can play in coverage and has the speed to go sideline to sideline. His athletic ability reminds me a lot of Devin Studstill where he can play around the box and play good run support. But I wonder if Ajavon can play in space and run sideline to sideline

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by GBdomer View Post
                                          Hamilton is the gem of this class IMO. I really like Ajavon around the ball and laying a hat on someone. I really wonder if he can play in coverage and has the speed to go sideline to sideline. His athletic ability reminds me a lot of Devin Studstill where he can play around the box and play good run support. But I wonder if Ajavon can play in space and run sideline to sideline
                                          No doubt. Hamilton looks like the prototype FS you'd create in a lab. I think he's going to take the ball away a lot. With his height and speed, he can cover a lot of ground. If he has the instincts for it, he'll get situational time next year.

                                          Comment


                                          • Kyle Hamilton is Spiderman

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                                            • Welcome to Notre Dame Marist!

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                                              • Awesome pick up. Love players out of Hawaii!!

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                                                • Has ND ever played in Hawaii? I guess I could google that.

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                                                  • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                    Has ND ever played in Hawaii? I guess I could google that.
                                                    I remember we played in a bowl game out there when Clausen was QB.
                                                    '08 Hawaii bowl

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                                                    • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                      Has ND ever played in Hawaii? I guess I could google that.
                                                      Notre Dame has played Hawaii three times. All three games were in Hawaii, if I'm not mistaken.

                                                      1991 ND 48 Hawaii 42 (Lou Holtz)
                                                      1997 ND 23 Hawaii 22 (Bob Davie)
                                                      2008 ND 49 Hawaii 21 (Charlie Weiss)

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                                                      • I wish ND played Hawaii more since they always have these killer prospects every year coming from the same like two or three schools lol.

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                                                        • Originally posted by andre784 View Post
                                                          I wish ND played Hawaii more since they always have these killer prospects every year coming from the same like two or three schools lol.
                                                          there was prior discussion about making Hawaii game 0 every year before week 1. can't remember the ins and outs, but it would allow ND to play a 13th game every year if it was before week 1 and some other stipulations. would love it if that would happen.
                                                          The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                          Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                          Comment


                                                          • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                            there was prior discussion about making Hawaii game 0 every year before week 1. can't remember the ins and outs, but it would allow ND to play a 13th game every year if it was before week 1 and some other stipulations. would love it if that would happen.
                                                            I like that idea. Much like how Michigan was week zero this year....

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                              there was prior discussion about making Hawaii game 0 every year before week 1. can't remember the ins and outs, but it would allow ND to play a 13th game every year if it was before week 1 and some other stipulations. would love it if that would happen.
                                                              https://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...caa-scheduling

                                                              The rule is basically that if you play in Hawaii, Alaska, or Puerto Rico under supervision from one of those schools you are able to play 13 games and also play week zero. That means you can play 13 games in 14 weeks. What I find real interesting is how teams are playing Dec. 1st games this year because of cancellations. If there isn't any special exemption they have to use to do that then we could potentially try to find an independent team (or just teams that are forced to cancels games) that would be willing to play us that week so we could do 13 games over 15 weeks if we also play in Hawaii. We would get the 13th data point so many media members talk about while also allowing us to get a second bye week during the year, plus the exposure of getting to play week zero when there aren't that many other games.

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                                                              • Originally posted by SouthSideChiDomer View Post
                                                                https://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...caa-scheduling

                                                                The rule is basically that if you play in Hawaii, Alaska, or Puerto Rico under supervision from one of those schools you are able to play 13 games and also play week zero. That means you can play 13 games in 14 weeks. What I find real interesting is how teams are playing Dec. 1st games this year because of cancellations. If there isn't any special exemption they have to use to do that then we could potentially try to find an independent team (or just teams that are forced to cancels games) that would be willing to play us that week so we could do 13 games over 15 weeks if we also play in Hawaii. We would get the 13th data point so many media members talk about while also allowing us to get a second bye week during the year, plus the exposure of getting to play week zero when there aren't that many other games.
                                                                reps
                                                                i'd love it more for recruiting, and additional practice, than the 13th data point lol.
                                                                The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                                  reps
                                                                  i'd love it more for recruiting, and additional practice, than the 13th data point lol.

                                                                  Well if we don't care about actually going to Hawaii to recruit I believe we can still take advantage of the week zero rule as long as we play a team that plays at Hawaii. So if we wanted to go full loophole schedule we could start a week early by playing a team that plays at Hawaii and then also play a week late (during conference championship weekend) by playing an independent team or a team that had a game cancelled due to weather. That would give us a 12 game schedule to be played over 15 weeks so we could have 3 bye weeks.

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                                                                  • Originally posted by Legacy93 View Post
                                                                    I remember we played in a bowl game out there when Clausen was QB.
                                                                    '08 Hawaii bowl
                                                                    Yep, was our first bowl win since the '93 season
                                                                    "The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood." - Lou Holtz

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                                                                    • Is there an NCAA rule that says a team cannot play more than 12 regular season games?

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                                                                      • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                        Is there an NCAA rule that says a team cannot play more than 12 regular season games?
                                                                        Yes, but if they open the season at Hawaii, they can play 13, as can Hawaii.

                                                                        https://fbschedules.com/the-hawaii-exemption/
                                                                        We learned more from a three-minute record, than we ever learned in school...

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                                                                        • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                          Is there an NCAA rule that says a team cannot play more than 12 regular season games?
                                                                          Yeah, I'm pretty sure there is. That's why the Hawaii rule exists and what is actually was about before it also allowed week zero games. Hawaii and teams that play at Hawaii are basically the only ones that get to use it.

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                                                                          • If you played Hawaii in Puerto Rico during Week 0 could you schedule BYU at their Hawaii campus during Conference Championship Game Week for a 14th data point?

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                                                                            • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post
                                                                              If you played Hawaii in Puerto Rico during Week 0 could you schedule BYU at their Hawaii campus during Conference Championship Game Week for a 14th data point?
                                                                              No, from what I just read you can only take advantage of the rule up to 1 extra game so 13 games but then you could just thumb the nose at the NCAA and do it anyway.

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                                                                              • Originally posted by NDCrusader View Post
                                                                                If you played Hawaii in Puerto Rico during Week 0 could you schedule BYU at their Hawaii campus during Conference Championship Game Week for a 14th data point?
                                                                                I think that would actually work. Here is the relevant rules from 2014:

                                                                                17.27.2 Alaska/Hawaii, Additional Football Contest
                                                                                Member institutions located in Alaska and Hawaii shall be permitted to exceed, by one, the maximum number of football contests permitted under Bylaw 17.9.5.1 but otherwise shall conform to the same maximum number of contests and dates of competition permitted other members of the Association.

                                                                                17.9.5.2 Annual Exemptions. [FBS/FCS]
                                                                                The maximum number of football contests shall exclude the following:

                                                                                (j) Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico. [FBS/FCS]
                                                                                Any football games played in Hawaii, Alaska or Puerto Rico, respectively, either against or under the sponsorship of an active member institution located in Hawaii, Alaska or Puerto Rico, by a Division I member institution located outside the area in question.
                                                                                That's from this website: https://fbschedules.com/the-hawaii-e...-2014-edition/

                                                                                I'm gonna look through the 2018 rule book to see if thats been updated, but it sounds to me like it would work.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                                  No, from what I just read you can only take advantage of the rule up to 1 extra game so 13 games but then you could just thumb the nose at the NCAA and do it anyway.
                                                                                  Damn.

                                                                                  I think ND should stay in Cali after SC and play the Raiders the following week during their bye. Guaranteed win but on second thought, it could kill their SOS.

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                                                                                  • Last stupid Q:
                                                                                    Is there an NCAA rule about size of conference. Like why doesnt ND start its own conference with 6 other teams for the purpose of a final whilst also staying essentially independent?

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                                      I like that idea. Much like how Michigan was week zero this year....
                                                                                      Hahah no love for this ?! Lol

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                                                                                      • Looked into it more. Here is a link to the rule book: https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4...gust-2018.aspx

                                                                                        The good stuff starts at page 282 which is page 270 of the actual book. Relevant excerpts:
                                                                                        17.10.3 First Contest. [FBS/FCS] An institution shall not play its first contest (game or scrimmage) with
                                                                                        outside competition in football prior to the Thursday preceding Labor Day (see Figure 17-2). (Revised: 1/11/89,
                                                                                        1/9/96 effective 8/1/96, 1/14/97, 5/12/05)
                                                                                        17.10.3.1 Exception—Institutions That Compete in Hawaii. [FBS/FCS] An institution that is scheduled
                                                                                        to play a regular-season game in Hawaii may play its first permissible contest with outside competition on
                                                                                        the Saturday prior to the Thursday preceding Labor Day. If the institution’s first opponent of the season is not a
                                                                                        member institution located in Hawaii, the institution’s first opponent of the season may also play its first contest
                                                                                        (game or scrimmage) with outside competition on the Saturday prior to the Thursday preceding Labor Day.
                                                                                        (Adopted: 4/28/16 effective 8/1/16)
                                                                                        17.10.4 End of Playing Season. [FBS/FCS] A member institution’s last contest (game or scrimmage)
                                                                                        with outside competition in football shall not be played after the second Saturday or the following Sunday in December,
                                                                                        except for the following: (Revised: 1/11/89, 1/10/90, 1/10/91, 1/10/92, 1/16/93, 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97,
                                                                                        8/5/99, 4/27/06, 12/15/06, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08, 10/28/10, 10/27/11 effective 4/1/12, 6/8/15)
                                                                                        17.10.5 Number of Contests. [FBS/FCS]
                                                                                        17.10.5.1 Maximum Limitations—Institutional. [FBS/FCS] In bowl subdivision football, a member institution
                                                                                        shall limit its total regular-season playing schedule with outside competition during the permissible
                                                                                        football playing season in any one year to 12 contests (games or scrimmages), except as provided for member
                                                                                        institutions located in Alaska and Hawaii, under Bylaw 17.28.2, and except as provided for all members under
                                                                                        Bylaw 17.10.5.2. In championship subdivision football, a member institution shall limit its total regular-season
                                                                                        playing schedule with outside competition during the permissible football playing season in any one year to 11
                                                                                        contests (games or scrimmages), except as provided for member institutions located in Alaska and Hawaii, under
                                                                                        Bylaw 17.28.2, and except as provided for all members under Bylaw 17.10.5.2. Twelve football contests shall be
                                                                                        permissible during those years in which there are 14 Saturdays from the first permissible playing date through
                                                                                        the last playing date in November (e.g., 2019, 2024, 2025). (Revised: 1/12/99 effective 8/1/02, 8/5/99 effective
                                                                                        8/1/02, 4/28/05 effective 8/1/06, 12/15/06)
                                                                                        17.10.5.1.1 In-Season Foreign Competition. [FBS/FCS] A member institution may play one or
                                                                                        more of its countable contests in football in one or more foreign countries on one trip during the prescribed
                                                                                        playing season. However, except for contests played in Canada, Mexico or on a certified foreign tour (see
                                                                                        Bylaw 17.29), the institution may not engage in such in-season foreign competition more than once every
                                                                                        four years.
                                                                                        17.10.5.1.2 Maximum Limitations—Student-Athlete. [FBS/FCS] In bowl subdivision football, an
                                                                                        individual student-athlete may participate in each academic year in not more than 12 football contests. In
                                                                                        championship subdivision football, an individual student-athlete may participate in each academic year
                                                                                        in not more than 11 football contests, except that 12 football contests shall be permissible during those
                                                                                        years in which there are 14 Saturdays from the first permissible playing date through the last playing date
                                                                                        in November (e.g., 2019). This limitation includes those contests in which the student-athlete represents
                                                                                        the institution in accordance with Bylaw 17.02.8, including competition as a member of the varsity, junior
                                                                                        varsity or freshman team of the institution. (Revised: 1/10/91 effective 8/1/92, 8/5/99 effective 8/1/02, 4/28/05
                                                                                        effective 8/1/06, 12/15/06)

                                                                                        17.10.5.2 Annual Exemptions. [FBS/FCS]
                                                                                        17.10.5.2.1 Bowl Subdivision. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, the maximum number of football
                                                                                        contests shall exclude the following: (Revised: 1/10/90, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08, 10/28/10, 10/27/11 effective
                                                                                        4/1/12, Adopted: 8/2/12 effective 8/1/14, 1/15/16 effective 8/1/16)
                                                                                        (f) Foreign Tour. The football games played on a foreign tour, provided the tour occurs only once in a
                                                                                        four-year period and is conducted by the member institution in accordance with the procedures set
                                                                                        forth in Bylaw 17.29;
                                                                                        (g) Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico. Any football games played in Hawaii, Alaska, or Puerto Rico, respectively,
                                                                                        either against or under the sponsorship of an active member institution located in Hawaii,
                                                                                        Alaska or Puerto Rico, by a Division I member institution located outside the areas in question
                                                                                        So it sounds like the 14 game plan would work, but players could only play in 12 games, which sounds weird but also sounds like exactly something the NCAA would think of.

                                                                                        Edit: since conference championships are listed exemptions in the same area as the Hawaii rule, I think players would be exempt from the 12 game rule just like they are for conference championships, so they would be able to play all 14 games.
                                                                                        Last edited by SouthSideChiDomer; 11-15-2018, 10:12 PM.

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                                          Last stupid Q:
                                                                                          Is there an NCAA rule about size of conference. Like why doesnt ND start its own conference with 6 other teams for the purpose of a final whilst also staying essentially independent?
                                                                                          Good question. Found this article from 2016:

                                                                                          Football Bowl Subdivision conferences with fewer than 12 members will be able to hold a conference championship football game in addition to the allowed 12 regular-season games, the Division I Council decided Wednesday, and such conferences will have two ways to meet scheduling requirements.

                                                                                          Under current rules, FBS conferences must have at least 12 members, and championship games must be between the winners of two divisions within the conference. Each division must play a round-robin schedule during the regular season in order to hold a championship game.

                                                                                          Council members adopted a proposal that originated with the Division I Football Oversight Committee but also approved an amendment from the Big Ten Conference. The amendment, offered by the Big Ten late last week, allows conferences with fewer than 12 members to hold championship games in football, as long as they meet one of two additional conditions: Conferences that want to play championship games must either play their championship game between division winners after round-robin competition in each division or between the top two teams in the conference standings following full round-robin, regular-season competition between all members of the conference.
                                                                                          But it says nothing about how small of a conference you could have...the real question is in the current playoff format, is there a benefit to playing one of the independents twice? Personally, I don't think any of the current independents have a big enough name that if we beat them twice the playoff committee will reward us with a spot over a similarly ranked (and same W-L record) P5 conference winner.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by edgesofsanity View Post
                                                                                            But it says nothing about how small of a conference you could have...the real question is in the current playoff format, is there a benefit to playing one of the independents twice? Personally, I don't think any of the current independents have a big enough name that if we beat them twice the playoff committee will reward us with a spot over a similarly ranked (and same W-L record) P5 conference winner.
                                                                                            We could try to get a few other teams to ditch their conference. UCF, SMU...

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • Is it possible to play backyard football throughout the summer to accumulate a few more data points?

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • Originally posted by edgesofsanity View Post
                                                                                                Good question. Found this article from 2016:



                                                                                                But it says nothing about how small of a conference you could have...the real question is in the current playoff format, is there a benefit to playing one of the independents twice? Personally, I don't think any of the current independents have a big enough name that if we beat them twice the playoff committee will reward us with a spot over a similarly ranked (and same W-L record) P5 conference winner.
                                                                                                I found similar, but also that for a conference to become a member conference (which I believe is required to have the conference championship game exception) it would have to be elected by a vote of division 1 institutions. So we could technically form the Independent conference with Army or BYU, but I highly doubt it would pass the election process even if it were technically following the rules.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by T-Boone View Post
                                                                                                  We could try to get a few other teams to ditch their conference. UCF, SMU...
                                                                                                  The problem is we would have to play all the other members in our division, so unless we just have traditional rivals in our division, we basically just gave up independence for a shitty conference instead of just joining the ACC.

                                                                                                  So if we just went UCF, SMU, ND, Navy, we would play Navy, then winner of that would then play the winner of the other match up. But again, doubtful other schools would okay that conference.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by NDShark View Post
                                                                                                    Is it possible to play backyard football throughout the summer to accumulate a few more data points?
                                                                                                    There are exemptions for washed up HS alumni games.

                                                                                                    But actually there is this exemption

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                                                                                                    • Don't have time to look it up, but the Hawaii provision from the ncaa allowing a 13th game was only available, I think, once out of every 5 years. So you couldn't do it every year.

                                                                                                      Not sure if the ncaa has changed frequency provision or not.

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