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2020-2021 Notre Dameís Menís Basketball

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  • Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post
    https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/sal...ketball/coach/

    I put this in here to see who we could realistically poach. Would ND pay over $3.5MM? Probably not. Mike Brey makes $2.5MM according to this.

    Realistically from this list, I don't know who they could even poach. Maybe John Brannen at Cincy?
    Good track record as a program builder at NKU... but the transition to 'his' guys at UC has been turbulent. He couldn't get along with AAC MVP Jarron Cumberland last year (his best player, and a guy that Mick Cronin managed just fine), and he's had several transfers and opt-outs this year among guys he recruited, either via high school or transfers.

    Maybe it's coincidental and can be chalked up to college kids dealing with both a new system of basketball and COVID, and deciding to hit the dusty trail and reset... but I'd say the jury is out on Brannen, as his time at NKU is starting to look like maybe he was just blessed by a couple of generational Horizon-league talents that carried him to the tournament twice.

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    • Stevens would have a lot of choices if he went back to the college game. Notre Dame would have a heck of a time trying to compete with those other schools for his services. We would have no realistic shot.

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      • I would think Quinn is the first call, just to make him hang up.

        Porter Moser / Wes Miller are next. Hopefully hit a home run like VT seems to have done.

        Steve Prohm at ISU would be a pretty easy get I'd think. They absolutely suck this year, but it's a bit of a weird situation. He'd get another year at ISU, but I'm sure he'd jump out for a comparable position. Wouldn't want him, just from the list posted, he'd be an easy one.

        Then Ingelsby, and to be honest, I'd be ok with him. As I said, he's done a good job at Delaware considering how much talent he's lost that have jumped up in level (they aren't 7-7 if Darling sticks around).

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        • Originally posted by Rogue219 View Post
          I really wish they could have parlayed those Elite Eight appearances into something, but ultimately things fizzled out with this program since then. I'd like to think that Brey could go out on his own terms, but that's starting to look like it won't be possible. I don't know if he's back next year or not, but the chanting for him to be fired doesn't seem like something he deserves. Smells of entitled bullshit to me.

          I don't know what Brey makes salary wise against his counterparts out there, but it would seem to me like there is a guy out there in his late 30s or early 40s who would take a look at this gig knowing it's Notre Dame and the ACC. I just don't know enough about who the viable candidates will be. Seems like the Duke assistants is a been there done that for everyone, and Brey was one of the first apples off of the tree. Being an ND grad is not, and should not, be a requirement. Chris Quinn certainly seems like an NBA guy. He spent pretty decent time as a player there and has been on the bench of a very good coach for some time now. I think he's a good hire for anyone, really.

          Part of me feels that it is time for a change here, but that's as much as I have right now. Can't get specific as to who or what that change entails.
          Have you watched this team the last four years? Brey has burned through his substantial pile of political capital.

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          • Originally posted by ab2cmiller View Post
            Stevens would have a lot of choices if he went back to the college game. Notre Dame would have a heck of a time trying to compete with those other schools for his services. We would have no realistic shot.
            He would have a lot of choices, but I think he ends up back in Indiana if he decides to return to the college game. That limits his options to basically four schools. The biggest negative might be ND is the furthest from Indy. We can dream though. lol

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            • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post

              He would have a lot of choices, but I think he ends up back in Indiana if he decides to return to the college game. That limits his options to basically four schools. The biggest negative might be ND is the furthest from Indy. We can dream though. lol
              That, and IU would double whatever we offer.

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              • Well, let's see if this team has any pride left.

                You're one of the highest rated recruiting classes in your coaches' tenure. You've under-performed. Never made the tournament. You just lost miserably in front of fans for the first time all year. Listened to the students chant that your coach should be fired.

                And now you have a top 15 team in your house.

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                • Pretty good start on both ends really. Its amazing what moving without the ball can do for an offense like Djogo has been doing so far. Of course that is followed up by the last two possessions of no passes and a missed 3 from Hubb and then a one pass and missed 3 from Laz. FSU hasn't looked sharp offensively and ND has been active with their hands so far.

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                  • Huh.

                    As I said, this is probably my least favorite ND team I can remember, and runs like this is part of the reason why.

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                    • We all know how this ends. Florida State extends their D in the second half, we go 10 minutes without scoring a basket and loose by 7 despite being up by 15 at the half.

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                      • Oh the games this team plays with my heart

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                        • Cormac Ryan alone at the top of the key trying to take someone off the dribble should never happen. Good half otherwise although FSU knocked a couple 3s down late. Hopefully they come out with the same effort and movement and finish this one off and give Brey a high note to go out on.

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                          • So, if I'm reading this right, if we win and Clemson beats Pitt, are we the 11? So a path would be WF, Clemson, VT? God they are going to force me to be irrational, aren't they...

                            But, I'm sure this second half will bring me back.

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                            • Originally posted by Woneone View Post
                              So, if I'm reading this right, if we win and Clemson beats Pitt, are we the 11? So a path would be WF, Clemson, VT? God they are going to force me to be irrational, aren't they...

                              But, I'm sure this second half will bring me back.
                              You are reading that correct and that is a favorable path which is not gonna help my anxiety going into the ACC tournament lol

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                              • Yea - FSU is gonna be allowed to body this half. This is going to go poorly.

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                                • Ya we are in trouble

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                                  • Does Djogo get a free year because of covid or is he done?

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                                    • Officials just don't know how to officiate FSU. They are so physical, and every player jumps forward on drives, it's difficult for them. But, that said, the Gray kid has been absolutely screwed this game. I think Laz has taken 2 pretty questionable calls, and then a really weak block.

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                                      • That said, there is no world where with 12 minutes to go, we have 6 fouls, and more total than FSU.

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                                        • FSU is in the bonus with 12 to go. If they officiate us like this, we can't win. It's incredible to me that this is even possible. You literally have to ignore the physicality on one end for this to happen.

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                                          • Raquan Gray should have 1 foul. Scottie Barns should have about 7.

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                                            • Can't give up that missed free throw rebound or ten second call when only one person is applying pressure. How can a team full of upper classmen have such little composure?

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                                              • Originally posted by clashmore_mike View Post
                                                Does Djogo get a free year because of covid or is he done?
                                                Brey already told him and Durham they aren’t coming back

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                                                • Originally posted by NDGOLDEN View Post

                                                  Brey already told him and Durham they aren’t coming back
                                                  As in they could be back but there aren't spots for either? I know Brey said he likes keeping a scholie open so they can add a potential transfer but wtf?

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                                                  • Originally posted by clashmore_mike View Post

                                                    As in they could be back but there aren't spots for either? I know Brey said he likes keeping a scholie open so they can add a potential transfer but wtf?
                                                    From what I’ve heard ppl say that he is asking them to move on. Could be speculation

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                                                    • Why do we just huck up BAD shots early in the shot clock, late in a game, while in the lead?
                                                      "Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's *** by sticking your head up there. But, wouldn't you rather take his word for it?"

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                                                      • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post
                                                        Why do we just huck up BAD shots early in the shot clock, late in a game, while in the lead?
                                                        Idk but they have been driving to the basket pretty solid all game so idk why we aren’t taking it to the basket especially with all the fouls they have

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                                                        • Originally posted by BeauBenken View Post
                                                          Why do we just huck up BAD shots early in the shot clock up late in a game while in the lead?
                                                          It's maddening and has been happening all year. I don't understand it at all.

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                                                          • Terrible possession that could have been bailed out and Wertz misses a lay up and then a wide open 3 on the other end. It's like I've seen this game 3 or 4 times already this year.

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                                                            • Omg

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                                                              • Wow, first win over a ranked team in 4 years. Hard to imagine that. Glad they were able to hang on and get it done.

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                                                                • Did we seriously just take it to FSU and actually win?? Wow

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                                                                  • Congratulations to Brey and the team. As much as I’ve been disappointed the last three years I’ll forever appreciate what Brey has done for the program. Never would I have imagined two back to back elite eights for ND basketball. If this is his last home game, glad he could go out with a victory.
                                                                    Love Thee Notre Dame!

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                                                                    • Yea, big win in what will likely be his last game. Hopefully the team sticks together and uses this as momentum in the offseason. Get a good coach in here and let’s roll.

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                                                                      • Man, really unlucky to get UNC in the second round. I would much rather be the 12 seed and Have a Miami/Clemson/GT path.

                                                                        But, I'm thinking we get Brey another year now. I know what Lax said, but with prominent basketball alumni coming out in support, and this win, I bet he stays another year. Which would be awful, because I can see most of the Junior class not taking advantage of the extra year and leaving with him, leaving whomever replaces him in a much tougher situation.

                                                                        From a program perspective, it would be pretty rough for him to only get 1 more year.

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                                                                        • Originally posted by Woneone View Post

                                                                          But, I'm thinking we get Brey another year now. I know what Lax said, but with prominent basketball alumni coming out in support, and this win, I bet he stays another year. Which would be awful, because I can see most of the Junior class not taking advantage of the extra year and leaving with him, leaving whomever replaces him in a much tougher situation.

                                                                          From a program perspective, it would be pretty rough for him to only get 1 more year.
                                                                          Meh, easy to come to his defense when the players doing it experienced 2 Elite 8s with him while completely ignoring the shit of the last 4 years. It’s also possible to think Brey should go without the students chanting “Fire Brey”.

                                                                          If this identical situation was with the football program, and BK was in year 20+ with 4 straight 7-5 seasons, would he be getting the same benefit of doubt? Obviously not. Swarbrick has to make a change. I’m still not convinced it’s gonna happen .

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                                                                          • How many coaches has Swarbrick fired? He is slow to the trigger it seems so I bet Brey is around next season.

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                                                                            • IMO Brey is coinflip this year. Either way wouldn't surprise me. If I absolutely had to bet, I'd say he'll be back.

                                                                              And not sure why anyone should compare ND basketball with ND football (talking history and expectation).
                                                                              The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                              Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

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                                                                              • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                                                IMO Brey is coinflip this year. Either way wouldn't surprise me. If I absolutely had to bet, I'd say he'll be back.

                                                                                And not sure why anyone should compare ND basketball with ND football (talking history and expectation).
                                                                                I get ND basketball’s expectations are the floor and I think that’s what allowed Brey to get a free pass for a while. Fact is, ND basketball is one of the most winningest basketball programs in history behind only 7 others. If they weren’t so bad the last 3 years, they’d prob be close to top 5. Facilities are in place now to compete with the big boys. The expectations need to be way higher going forward whether it’s Brey next year or someone else.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by notredomer23 View Post

                                                                                  I get ND basketball’s expectations are the floor and I think that’s what allowed Brey to get a free pass for a while. Fact is, ND basketball is one of the most winningest basketball programs in history behind only 7 others. If they weren’t so bad the last 3 years, they’d prob be close to top 5. Facilities are in place now to compete with the big boys. The expectations need to be way higher going forward whether it’s Brey next year or someone else.
                                                                                  IDK. You're looking at total wins, and perhaps ignoring how long ND has been playing sports compared to others (and more than anything, the timing of ND's success). We're more like Temple and St. John's than one of today's blue bloods (look at both their histories). In the last 50 years, ND has been to the E8 4 times. 2 of the 4 have been in the last 6 years with Brey. Prior to that, you have to go back to the late 70s for the other 2 with Digger. And prior to that, the only other 3 were in the 50s.

                                                                                  I do agree it's probably time to move on, but my gut tells me things won't get better (consistently better). Getting the blue chip BB kids is just harder for ND. And given it's more of a 1 and done type of league now, that just doesn't bode well for us. Could we catch lightening in a bottle with some luck with 3 to 4 year players with the right timing of some others, perhaps... I just don't see it as ever being consistent though. It's a down year for a lot of blue bloods right now, but I don't see us ever being able to reload like UK, KS, UNC, Duke, etc..
                                                                                  The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                  Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                  • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post

                                                                                    IDK. You're looking at total wins, and perhaps ignoring how long ND has been playing sports compared to others (and more than anything, the timing of ND's success). We're more like Temple and St. John's than one of today's blue bloods (look at both their histories). In the last 50 years, ND has been to the E8 4 times. 2 of the 4 have been in the last 6 years with Brey. Prior to that, you have to go back to the late 70s for the other 2 with Digger. And prior to that, the only other 3 were in the 50s.

                                                                                    I do agree it's probably time to move on, but my gut tells me things won't get better (consistently better). Getting the blue chip BB kids is just harder for ND. And given it's more of a 1 and done type of league now, that just doesn't bode well for us. Could we catch lightening in a bottle with some luck with 3 to 4 year players with the right timing of some others, perhaps... I just don't see it as ever being consistent though. It's a down year for a lot of blue bloods right now, but I don't see us ever being able to reload like UK, KS, UNC, Duke, etc..
                                                                                    Being better than a bottom tier ACC program is a reasonable expectation for ND basketball. That's what they've been the last 3 years with Brey. It's time to move on.

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                                                                                    • Originally posted by TP81989 View Post

                                                                                      Being better than a bottom tier ACC program is a reasonable expectation for ND basketball. That's what they've been the last 3 years with Brey. It's time to move on.
                                                                                      Like I said above, I don't disagree it's time to move on. I just don't see us having a better "next twenty years".
                                                                                      The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                      Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

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                                                                                      • If Brey does leave, who does ND get?

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                                                                                        • Originally posted by irishandy View Post
                                                                                          If Brey does leave, who does ND get?
                                                                                          That's the scary question lol.

                                                                                          And is ND willing to pay.... Isn't Brey outside of the top 40 in CBB coaching pay?
                                                                                          The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                          Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

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                                                                                          • Before the last three years, Brey has done about as much as you can for ND basketball. It’s not just the elite eights. He had us regularly in the top 25. He had us competing for conference championships. He had us in the top 10 for about 25% of the seasons he coached. He was at one point called an offensive guru. He maximized the talent that he had at his disposal.

                                                                                            Im sad and sick about the last three years of ND basketball, mostly for Coach Brey. I hope people won’t stick with that memory but rather how great of a coach he was in the other 17 years.
                                                                                            Love Thee Notre Dame!

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                                                                                            • Originally posted by irishandy View Post
                                                                                              If Brey does leave, who does ND get?
                                                                                              Yeah, this is going to be a bad year to be looking for a coach. Not a lot of obvious options, and a ton of schools will be looking.

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                                                                                              • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post

                                                                                                Like I said above, I don't disagree it's time to move on. I just don't see us having a better "next twenty years".
                                                                                                I see what you are saying, but I think context is important here. Brey has had an excellent career at ND. I hope the next coach would mirror most of that, especially how he represents himself and the school. Brey was always about the best you could hope for in that regard. I would take a Brey over a Boeheim any day of the week, even if that means passing up on some wins.

                                                                                                That said, there are two issues with Brey's history at ND. First, he last three years are considerably different than the rest of his tenure. There was a gap early on in his career where ND missed the NCAA three years in a row. This current drought is different though were you could see the bright future in that 2005/2006 team. That year they lost 5 OT games that year, including 3 against ranked teams including losing by 1 on the road against a loaded #3 UCONN that year. They also lost by 1 on the road against #11 WVU and lost a heart breaker to #6 Nova at home by 2. It was a considerably different year than this year. As it stands, it would take a small miracle to see how this team could play its way into the 2nd round of the NCAA.

                                                                                                The other issue with Brey is that for as many chances as he had, he only had 3 teams win a second round game in the NCAA.

                                                                                                I love the guy and have no ill will against him, despite my frustration with the state of the program. He should be celebrated for what he has done. But getting back to the standard he created would be a big jump from where they are now. I would welcome that with open arms. I also don't think he has what it takes to do it himself.

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                                                                                                • Originally posted by IrishLax View Post

                                                                                                  Yeah, this is going to be a bad year to be looking for a coach. Not a lot of obvious options, and a ton of schools will be looking.
                                                                                                  But would ND attract the "obvious" choice? Seems to me ND will need to choose from a high profile assistant (Doherty came from Kansas without any HC experience) or the mid-major head coach with some recent success. There are so many of either of those, it amounts to a gamble.
                                                                                                  Last edited by Ndaccountant; 03-07-2021, 11:02 PM.

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                                                                                                  • Originally posted by Ndaccountant View Post

                                                                                                    I see what you are saying, but I think context is important here. Brey has had an excellent career at ND. I hope the next coach would mirror most of that, especially how he represents himself and the school. Brey was always about the best you could hope for in that regard. I would take a Brey over a Boeheim any day of the week, even if that means passing up on some wins.

                                                                                                    That said, there are two issues with Brey's history at ND. First, he last three years are considerably different than the rest of his tenure. There was a gap early on in his career where ND missed the NCAA three years in a row. This current drought is different though were you could see the bright future in that 2005/2006 team. That year they lost 5 OT games that year, including 3 against ranked teams including losing by 1 on the road against a loaded #3 UCONN that year. They also lost by 1 on the road against #11 WVU and lost a heart breaker to #6 Nova at home by 2. It was a considerably different year than this year. As it stands, it would take a small miracle to see how this team could play its way into the 2nd round of the NCAA.

                                                                                                    The other issue with Brey is that for as many chances as he had, he only had 3 teams win a second round game in the NCAA.

                                                                                                    I love the guy and have no ill will against him, despite my frustration with the state of the program. He should be celebrated for what he has done. But getting back to the standard he created would be a big jump from where they are now. I would welcome that with open arms. I also don't think he has what it takes to do it himself.
                                                                                                    I don't disagree with really anything you're saying. My major sticking point is that I'm just not sure ND will do better. I don't see them getting a new rock star coach. And I don't think CBB itself is the same as it was 10 years ago. Not even 5. And like other's have mentioned, it's not a good year to be coach shopping. And will ND even be willing to pay what it takes if they can draw interest from a good candidate. Then on top of that, you have in-state IU likely also looking for a new HC. Not saying IU is a no-brainer more attractive program right now, but they will likely pay more, are easier to recruit too, and has a better history.

                                                                                                    IMO, they'll have to take a chance on someone that's an up and comer, but likely has less of a resume than most will hope for.
                                                                                                    The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                                    Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

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                                                                                                    • You can't put more value on that win than any other this year. It would be fools gold to do so. You have to look at the entire body of work for not just this year, but probably the last 4 or 5 years. Where's is the program trending? What does Jack see and hear when he's watching practice and talking to Brey? Ask yourself this. What is accomplished by keeping Brey one more year? Does it outweigh results from the last few years? Plenty of good coaches out there. Just because you haven't heard of the guy or he's not a current HC doesn't mean he can't be successful.

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