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  • Originally posted by johnnycando View Post
    Fracking is a terrible thing at shallow depths, in my opinion.


    The bad part of fracking is the use of fresh water. Millions of gallons go bye-bye.

    If we could harness the ability to fully advance and afford produced water to frack with, we'd have a win-win situation in my parts.
    You were close. Disposal wells and earthquakes driving up insurance premiums for those relishing cheap gas ought to be considered.
    Running the damn ball since 2017.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by IrishinSyria View Post
      The answer to both the "thanks Obama" argument and the why no EIA statement is in the article:





      Basically, the company building the pipeline sought to avoid Keystone round 2 by building it entirely on private land. The federal permission they needed involved the permit for going underneath the river but authority over that rests with the Army Corps of Engineers which acts independently of the administration.
      I've worked with the Army corps...I've never known them to do anything on any reasonable scale w/o DOI being informed. Lots of boundaries and such in a pipeline...lots of shalls and musts to dig a pipelien. So, I don't buy it. I believe The Secretary of the interior knew about this pipeline. I also believe there was likely a planning group where engineers from industry, the ACE and DOI were involved.

      Shit, when we laser leveled PRIVATE ground we had to get ACE and DOI signoff, and do an impact study with cultural and natural resources...the entire gambit. I mean you can't even suck mud away from a dam that is in danger of failure due to sediment without an act of GOD...and some of those are Privately owned.

      IMHO this project was known, and for some political reason supported/permitted until now.
      One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
        1) I've played this game too. I've traded nat gas and oil futures with CME. I've made a killing on fine plays like CLR and MMP. Gulfport coming out of the crash was nice. I knew oil was too high, and waited to get back in in the 60's then blew my gains on LINE and Rich Kinder.

        2) In 2012, I was at an energy forum with land men, petroleum engineers, GEO-nerds, and investors who thought peak oil was a joke and frackers were bulletproof. They were boisterous and loud, even for Okies.

        3) In 2015, I caught back up at the same forum, only in Houston and you could feel the panic. Oil is a commodity, not a promise...

        4) You're behind your industry....

        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...eak-in-5-years

        Forbes Welcome

        Is peak oil demand in sight? | McKinsey & Company

        Energy is changing fast...
        Oil is cyclic for sure. But it'll never be phased out, I don't think.

        I believe in history, not in theory. And history shows we go back rather than ween off oil.

        So long as we have a lack of science changing propulsion and lubrication, oil will be there.

        And I'm not behind in my industry. I'm at the forefront in optimization, which helps to produce oil in more cost effective ways in order to allow hydrocarbons to be more profitable in lease operating expense even with a supply glut.

        The rest depends on effective high oil cut reservoirs and good engineering and petrophysical research.

        I hope we can continue to give consumers cheap prices at the pump and stay in business.

        A strong balance sheet, low debt, and good safe employees go a long ways.

        Buy now.
        Last edited by johnnycando; 12-06-2016, 12:41 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
          You were close. Disposal wells and earthquakes driving up insurance premiums for those relishing cheap gas ought to be considered.
          No he mentioned fracking not SWDs.

          That is certainly a whole other can of worms but absolutely necessary.

          And one of the most profitable businesses in the oilfield.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by johnnycando View Post
            Oil is cyclic for sure. But it'll never be phased out, I don't think.

            I believe in history, not in theory. And history shows we go back rather than ween off oil.

            So long as we have a lack of science changing propulsion and lubrication, oil will be there.

            And I'm not behind in my industry. I'm at the forefront in optimization, which helps to produce oil in more cost effective ways in order to allow hydrocarbons to be more profitable in lease operating expense even with a supply glut.

            The rest depends on effective high oil cut reservoirs and good engineering and petrophysical research.

            I hope we can continue to give consumers cheap prices at the pump and stay in business.

            A strong balance sheet, low debt, and good safe employees go a long ways.

            Buy now.
            Oil will be needed by Dow and BASF after we're dead. Planes will need it too. But dirt burners are on the clock when it comes to the scale we are seeing now.

            This will get accelerated when we have another liberal EPA or gas price hike. We're a world where solar is now cheap and subsidized; and more and more people are plugging in cars. Energy is growing more as a service than a commodity. The rig count may go up for awhile, but the world is moving away from dirt burners for sure.
            Running the damn ball since 2017.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
              Oil will be needed by Dow and BASF after we're dead. Planes will need it too. But dirt burners are on the clock when it comes to the scale we are seeing now.

              This will get accelerated when we have another liberal EPA or gas price hike. We're a world where solar is now cheap and subsidized; and more and more people are plugging in cars. Energy is growing more as a service than a commodity. The rig count may go up for awhile, but the world is moving away from dirt burners for sure.
              I hate to say it, but we're a war away from $200/bbl oil.

              When wars happen, rigs drill, gas gets expensive, and pigs die.

              Lots of bacon and beef needed.

              Comment


              • Speaking of oil, Planet Money recently did a 5 podcast miniseries where they literally get into the oil business in order to explain it and it's pretty cool. Includes an interview with the guy who invented sweet water fracking.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                  And how is that the federal Department of Education's fault?

                  Public education isn't working in part because we drew arbitrary political lines on a map that concentrated poverty in urban districts that had no chance of offering a decent education, which only compounded the social decay over generations.

                  And if you're complaining about math and science specifically, that's precisely why we need a degree of federal oversight. A child in the Bible Belt has a right to not be taught Creationist horseshit, which is what their state legislatures would too often mandate for their classrooms.

                  Plus is just pretty funny to complain about falling behind in science when the current Republican Party is the laughingstock of the developed world on matters of science.

                  I am somewhat in favor of the charter school approach, and do believe in vouchers so kids/families can make choices. But unfortunately the party that backs charter programs also loathes regulation so it's a wild wild west with urban charter schools taking advantage of ignorant parents and their children.
                  1) I didn't blame the Dept of Education, but it's fair to question why the hell we need a department of education that doesn't educate anyone with the budget it has. Once upon a time, kids were being taught reading, writing, and math well before there was a Dept of Ed.

                  2) "We" didn't draw lines on a map. The government did.

                  3) You don't need to be a Democrat or Republican or strong environmental advocate to believe that our kids should at least be competent in school (in every subject). We don't need a country full of kids crushing Physics in 8th grade, but we are capable of much better than what the results show right now.
                  The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                    And how is that the federal Department of Education's fault?

                    Public education isn't working in part because we drew arbitrary political lines on a map that concentrated poverty in urban districts that had no chance of offering a decent education, which only compounded the social decay over generations.

                    And if you're complaining about math and science specifically, that's precisely why we need a degree of federal oversight. A child in the Bible Belt has a right to not be taught Creationist horseshit, which is what their state legislatures would too often mandate for their classrooms.

                    Plus is just pretty funny to complain about falling behind in science when the current Republican Party is the laughingstock of the developed world on matters of science.

                    I am somewhat in favor of the charter school approach, and do believe in vouchers so kids/families can make choices. But unfortunately the party that backs charter programs also loathes regulation so it's a wild wild west with urban charter schools taking advantage of ignorant parents and their children.
                    Pisa tests: Singapore top in global education rankings - BBC News

                    Just released today. Tell me you're satisfied with these results or believe the US can remain the world's #1 economy in years to come if we continue on this path. The US came in 25 in science, 24 in reading, and 40 in math. Pretty scary if you ask me.

                    I couldn't even pinpoint Estonia on a map, but they are top 10 in math, science, and reading.
                    The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                      1) I didn't blame the Dept of Education, but it's fair to question why the hell we need a department of education that doesn't educate anyone with the budget it has. Once upon a time, kids were being taught reading, writing, and math well before there was a Dept of Ed.
                      ...because the Department of Education doesn't actually educate? It was created to, get this, be a more efficient way handing out scholarships for tertiary education, enforce Civil Rights laws, oversee performance data so states couldn't hide failures, and fund programs to needy states/districts. It's an apparatus for allowing local governments to be able to build and afford modern schools.

                      That's not to say there isn't waste. We test way too much and that government waste is corporate profit as the testing companies get paid handsomely. But like with much else, the loony-tune Republicans shrug their shoulders and suggest scrapping it entirely, showing us all once again how they govern irresponsibly.

                      If only we had some politicians taking money out of politics and then we wouldn't have to choose between corporation-dominated and libertarian wasteland.

                      Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                      2) "We" didn't draw lines on a map. The government did.
                      We are the government, silly goose. Especially at the local level, where school districts and municipalities are formed.

                      Although there is an incredible amount to be said about the federal government using transportation funding and influence in housing insurance to allow sprawl to happen in the first place.

                      Originally posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
                      3) You don't need to be a Democrat or Republican or strong environmental advocate to believe that our kids should at least be competent in school (in every subject). We don't need a country full of kids crushing Physics in 8th grade, but we are capable of much better than what the results show right now.
                      Unfortunately we have a President who "loves the poorly educated" and a political party with no motivation to change the fact that uneducated rural America puts them in power.

                      Overall there is something to be said about the party with its voting base in the educational wastelands of the deep south preaching about education reform when the northeast leads the way in educational achievement. It's like diabetics lecturing people on diet reform.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                        ...because the Department of Education doesn't actually educate? It was created to, get this, be a more efficient way handing out scholarships for tertiary education, enforce Civil Rights laws, oversee performance data so states couldn't hide failures, and fund programs to needy states/districts. It's an apparatus for allowing local governments to be able to build and afford modern schools.

                        That's not to say there isn't waste. We test way too much and that government waste is corporate profit as the testing companies get paid handsomely. But like with much else, the loony-tune Republicans shrug their shoulders and suggest scrapping it entirely, showing us all once again how they govern irresponsibly.

                        If only we had some politicians taking money out of politics and then we wouldn't have to choose between corporation-dominated and libertarian wasteland.



                        We are the government, silly goose. Especially at the local level, where school districts and municipalities are formed.

                        Although there is an incredible amount to be said about the federal government using transportation funding and influence in housing insurance to allow sprawl to happen in the first place.



                        Unfortunately we have a President who "loves the poorly educated" and a political party with no motivation to change the fact that uneducated rural America puts them in power.

                        Overall there is something to be said about the party with its voting base in the educational wastelands of the deep south preaching about education reform when the northeast leads the way in educational achievement. It's like diabetics lecturing people on diet reform.
                        Just wow to the bolded....from your profile you live in the rust belt....pretty sure that is the area that put trump into office and without he wouldn't have been elected!! Maybe you should stop preaching on message boards and educate your surrounding community

                        Comment


                        • Trump’s election stole my desire to look for a partner

                          Comment


                          • Not procreating would be a big plus for the rest of us...
                            This sig will not change until The Browns win the Super Bowl... So get real used to it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                              ...because the Department of Education doesn't actually educate? It was created to, get this, be a more efficient way handing out scholarships for tertiary education, enforce Civil Rights laws, oversee performance data so states couldn't hide failures, and fund programs to needy states/districts. It's an apparatus for allowing local governments to be able to build and afford modern schools.

                              That's not to say there isn't waste. We test way too much and that government waste is corporate profit as the testing companies get paid handsomely. But like with much else, the loony-tune Republicans shrug their shoulders and suggest scrapping it entirely, showing us all once again how they govern irresponsibly.

                              If only we had some politicians taking money out of politics and then we wouldn't have to choose between corporation-dominated and libertarian wasteland.



                              We are the government, silly goose. Especially at the local level, where school districts and municipalities are formed.

                              Although there is an incredible amount to be said about the federal government using transportation funding and influence in housing insurance to allow sprawl to happen in the first place.



                              Unfortunately we have a President who "loves the poorly educated" and a political party with no motivation to change the fact that uneducated rural America puts them in power.

                              Overall there is something to be said about the party with its voting base in the educational wastelands of the deep south preaching about education reform when the northeast leads the way in educational achievement. It's like diabetics lecturing people on diet reform.
                              1) The federal Dept of Ed has a $77 billion budget. While their work is noble and in good heart, that number is insane. 98% of education and funding happens at the local and state level.

                              2) When you say President are you referring to Obama or Trump? Because there are uneducated whites in rural Mississippi, and uneducated minorities in big cities.

                              3) Curious to see your reaction the the US PISA rankings I posted earlier today, then tell me our Dept of Education with that budget and our educational system at its core is a bright shining star.
                              The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                                Unfortunately we have a President who "loves the poorly educated" and a political party with no motivation to change the fact that uneducated rural America puts them in power.

                                Overall there is something to be said about the party with its voting base in the educational wastelands of the deep south preaching about education reform when the northeast leads the way in educational achievement. It's like diabetics lecturing people on diet reform.
                                And this mindset is why your side lost the election and will continue to do so for years to come. Just totally out of touch with mainstream America, erroneously taking the intellectual shortcut of putting everyone who doesn't agree with your view of the world in the category of uneducated deplorables, and having no clue what those people actually believe or need. By all means, keep doing it! Worked out quite nicely this cycle.
                                Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by ACamp1900 View Post
                                  Not procreating would be a big plus for the rest of us...
                                  Lots of folks need to do us all a favor and pull out.

                                  Including this dumf!@#

                                  Things I Blame For Hillary Clinton's Loss, Ranked | The Huffington Post

                                  I'm just amazed that people are this far gone.
                                  Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                    Lots of folks need to do us all a favor and pull out.

                                    Including this dumf!@#

                                    Things I Blame For Hillary Clinton's Loss, Ranked | The Huffington Post

                                    I'm just amazed that people are this far gone.
                                    What a tard
                                    Based Mullet Kid owns

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Buster Bluth View Post
                                      ...because the Department of Education doesn't actually educate? It was created to, get this, be a more efficient way handing out scholarships for tertiary education, enforce Civil Rights laws, oversee performance data so states couldn't hide failures, and fund programs to needy states/districts. It's an apparatus for allowing local governments to be able to build and afford modern schools.

                                      That's not to say there isn't waste. We test way too much and that government waste is corporate profit as the testing companies get paid handsomely. But like with much else, the loony-tune Republicans shrug their shoulders and suggest scrapping it entirely, showing us all once again how they govern irresponsibly.

                                      If only we had some politicians taking money out of politics and then we wouldn't have to choose between corporation-dominated and libertarian wasteland.



                                      We are the government, silly goose. Especially at the local level, where school districts and municipalities are formed.

                                      Although there is an incredible amount to be said about the federal government using transportation funding and influence in housing insurance to allow sprawl to happen in the first place.



                                      Unfortunately we have a President who "loves the poorly educated" and a political party with no motivation to change the fact that uneducated rural America puts them in power.

                                      Overall there is something to be said about the party with its voting base in the educational wastelands of the deep south preaching about education reform when the northeast leads the way in educational achievement. It's like diabetics lecturing people on diet reform.
                                      Let's not forget...the federal Dept of Ed is 100% unconstitutional.
                                      The yellow mustard pants are hideous and have to go.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                        What a tard
                                        Have no fear. I'm sure the tard is from one of Buster's preferred regions of educational achievement.
                                        Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                        Comment


                                        • Disgruntled Democrats Want A Constitutional Convention To Leave The Union | Need To Know Network
                                          Fan since Vagas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!

                                          Comment


                                          • Please. Leave. Just make sure they assume their share of the debt and call it good.
                                            Based Mullet Kid owns

                                            Comment


                                            • Bye Felicia
                                              And Buster
                                              The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                              Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                              Comment


                                              • Pentagon reportedly buried study exposing $125 billion in waste | Fox News
                                                The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                Comment


                                                • It's ok. Mad Dog is coming to clean house soon.

                                                  If you've ever worked in a civilian office on a military base, you aren't surprised.
                                                  Running the damn ball since 2017.

                                                  Comment




                                                  • Among its other findings, the report showed that the Defense Department was paying just over 1 million contractors, civilian employees and uniformed personnel to fill back-office jobs. That number nearly matches the amount of active duty troops — 1.3 million, the lowest since 1940.


                                                    There is this meme that we’re some bloated, giant organization. Although there is a little bit of truth in that ... I think it vastly overstates what’s really going on.
                                                    Secretary of Defense Robert Work

                                                    Yo, Robert! It ain't Workin'

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Originally posted by NorthDakota View Post
                                                      What a tard
                                                      I don't particularly revel in the fact that Trump will be president...


                                                      I am the beneficiary of an accident in that SCOTUS will remain almost tethered to the Constitution.

                                                      But I do revel in the fact that TRUMP beat Mrs. Clinton...


                                                      Maybe this person might listen to what President Obama said...that Hillary did not campaign hard enough in the places that matter...

                                                      Maybe Bill would still have his phone if she listened to him, oh and maybe she might have won...

                                                      Maybe the people advising her are self-important douche bags...(whose failure I thoroughly enjoy)

                                                      Maybe Mrs. Clinton has not been seen as genuine or likable, yet Condi Rice is seen as both those things...If the Democrats could get her to run, they'd have their first woman President....or doesn't it count if she is a Republican?

                                                      Maybe Mrs. Clinton would not have lost to the single biggest dick on the planet had the MSM not brain washed her and her supporters that Trump wasn't real, and they "had this".

                                                      Maybe Trump never runs if President Obama isn't such a dick to him. That one will for sure be part of the legacy he so clearly fusses over.

                                                      Maybe Democracts lost because their house was laid bare for all to see from the Clintons dealings, to Podesta, to Benghazi, to the DNC, and on and on...and it was finally too much.

                                                      Maybe it was because the Middle East isn't better than it was when they "inherited" it.

                                                      Maybe it was because the economy isn't growing fast enough...

                                                      Maybe it was because they refused to actually use their Majority to solve the illegal immigration problem...

                                                      Maybe it was because pay has not kept pace with CoL.

                                                      Maybe it was because regulations make it damned near impossible to start a small business

                                                      the list goes on....

                                                      It was not so long ago I was told the Republicans were dead, and they'd never win again...and they maybe/probably shouldn't have...but if you want to know the real reason why Democrats lost....they are lead by SMUG ASSHOLES who make smug asshole statements and decisions....and whose media supporters write smug, detached articles.
                                                      One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Donald Trump says he sold all his stocks in June - Dec. 6, 2016
                                                        by Heather Long and Noah Gray @CNNMoneyInvest
                                                        December 6, 2016: 4:08 PM ET

                                                        He sold "all" of his holdings then, according to Jason Miller, the transition team's spokesman. ...

                                                        Comment


                                                        • Trump Announces $50B Investment from Japan's SoftBank | Fox Business
                                                          By Steve Holland and Eric Walsh Published December 06, 2016


                                                          Japanese telecoms and internet firm SoftBank Group Corp plans to invest $50 billion in the United States in businesses and create 50,000 new jobs, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump said on Tuesday.

                                                          Comment


                                                          • Originally posted by drayer54 View Post
                                                            Lots of folks need to do us all a favor and pull out.

                                                            Including this dumf!@#

                                                            Things I Blame For Hillary Clinton's Loss, Ranked | The Huffington Post

                                                            I'm just amazed that people are this far gone.
                                                            I had to look at the top of the page to make sure this article wasn't something from The Onion. Absolutely hilarious! It's hard to imagine anyone being quite this self-delusional and clueless, yet there it is.
                                                            Winners see success and want to climb up to its level. Losers see success and want to drag it down to their own.

                                                            Comment


                                                            • Trump on Boeing's Air Force One contract: 'Cancel order!' | Reuters

                                                              By Andrea Shalal and Amy Tennery | WASHINGTON/NEW YORK
                                                              U.S. President-elect Donald Trump urged the government on Tuesday to cancel an order with Boeing Co for a revamped Air Force One - one of the most prominent symbols of the U.S. presidency - saying costs were out of control.

                                                              It was the latest example of Trump using his podium, often via Twitter messages, to rattle companies and foreign countries as he seeks to shake up business as usual in Washington. Trump, who takes office on Jan. 20, took aim at what he called cost overruns even though the plane is only in development stages.

                                                              "Boeing is building a brand new 747 Air Force One for future presidents, but costs are out of control, more than $4 billion. Cancel order!" Trump said on Twitter.

                                                              Comment


                                                              • Originally posted by BGIF View Post
                                                                Trump on Boeing's Air Force One contract: 'Cancel order!' | Reuters

                                                                By Andrea Shalal and Amy Tennery | WASHINGTON/NEW YORK
                                                                4 billion
                                                                For one plane.
                                                                I'd like to see the business case.
                                                                Hope Trump tells Boing to stick the plane up their asses and puts the same design out to bid.
                                                                The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Originally posted by Bishop2b5 View Post
                                                                  I had to look at the top of the page to make sure this article wasn't something from The Onion. Absolutely hilarious! It's hard to imagine anyone being quite this self-delusional and clueless, yet there it is.
                                                                  Let them keep blaming everyone else. The Libs just lost the easiest, most winnable election of all time. F'ing morons.
                                                                  Hilldog gonna miss that 4 bill AF1
                                                                  Max Weiss is a stone cold door knob.
                                                                  BTW I'm happy the GOP have been turned on their heads too. They are not much brighter.


                                                                  Burn it all down.
                                                                  The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                  Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                  Comment


                                                                  • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                                    4 billion
                                                                    For one plane.
                                                                    I'd like to see the business case.
                                                                    Hope Trump tells Boing to stick the plane up their asses and puts the same design out to bid.
                                                                    As always Trump is misleading. Its not $4 billion for one plane. Its for two planes plus R&D plus Testing and evaluation which is part of the Air Force One program. Boeings plane only costs $380 mil. The majority cost is in all the upgrades which are subcontracted out that cost so much money. So he is attackng Boeing for no good reason. There is also an article out ther that says Trump is doing this as retribution for something that occurred between him and Boeing. ...

                                                                    Anyway, The upgrades are the ones that require it to be a mobile command center. CBO projection says it is currently at $3.7 billion to be paid over 12 years. Within the context of military spending it amounts to a very small portion of the budget. If Trump wants to be real about something he should try his ire at the F-35.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                      As always Trump is misleading. Its not $4 billion for one plane. Its for two planes plus R&D plus Testing and evaluation which is part of the Air Force One program. Boeings plane only costs $380 mil. The majority cost is in all the upgrades which are subcontracted out that cost so much money. So he is attackng Boeing for no good reason. There is also an article out ther that says Trump is doing this as retribution for something that occurred between him and Boeing. ...

                                                                      Anyway, The upgrades are the ones that require it to be a mobile command center. CBO projection says it is currently at $3.7 billion to be paid over 12 years. Within the context of military spending it amounts to a very small portion of the budget. If Trump wants to be real about something he should try his ire at the F-35.
                                                                      Whatever the "number" truly is, I'd bet a paycheck there's more than 40 or 50 points of margin and or BS heaped on it. Boeing and every other contractor has a long history of padding contracts and other shenanigans Could care less if Trump is making it personal if people start to pay more attention.

                                                                      If only we had honest people to unleash who would review all gov contracts. 4 bill over xx years may be small to you but it could do a lot of good in the right hands, or back in the taxpayers pocket.
                                                                      The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                      Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                      Comment


                                                                      • http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/06/trump...-argument.html

                                                                        And of course Boeing doesn't like anyone going after China, TPP, or NAFTA.
                                                                        Is it really personal or did Boeing toss the first stone.
                                                                        The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                        Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                        Comment


                                                                        • ^exacary

                                                                          Comment


                                                                          • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                                            Whatever the "number" truly is, I'd bet a paycheck there's more than 40 or 50 points of margin and or BS heaped on it. Boeing and every other contractor has a long history of padding contracts and other shenanigans Could care less if Trump is making it personal if people start to pay more attention.

                                                                            If only we had honest people to unleash who would review all gov contracts. 4 bill over xx years may be small to you but it could do a lot of good in the right hands, or back in the taxpayers pocket.
                                                                            I agree with the sentiments. Boeing and other big companies generally operate with a wrap rate of ~2.8-3.5 depending on the business unit. What that means is, if an employee makes 100K, the government pays between 280 and 350K for Boeing to supply the employee for that year. In that number are things like salary, benefits and 401K contributions, general overhead like rent, etc. and profit. Normally DoD contractors average 8-10% profit for labor...not sure how purchasing assets works anymore, but most ODCs (hardware) are capped at 5% profit.

                                                                            Couple issues...1) large companies cost more, not less, to do business with, and that is ass backwards on its face. 2) abuse generally comes in as civilian employees offload their labor responsibilities to contractors, or jocky for promotion by adding un-needed "heads". 3) large contracts are forced to have certain small business participation. This participation is often driven by cronyism through congress, and places like Boeing get to burn money training idiots to deliver some piece of the contract, and then the idiots still eff it up, then Boeing hires someone to fix it at a premium...this is part of the escalated costs from Boeing itself.

                                                                            In the case of a Boeing Aircraft, I suspect much cost is in outyear support, because they generally sell them CLS (Conntractor Logistics Support) ... which means the government doesn't own the data, and can't bid out the maintenance tail of the product lifecycle. Now plug in 1) and 2) above.

                                                                            Trump may not know exactly which sphincter to point at...but something indeed stinks.
                                                                            One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                            • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                                              Whatever the "number" truly is, I'd bet a paycheck there's more than 40 or 50 points of margin and or BS heaped on it. Boeing and every other contractor has a long history of padding contracts and other shenanigans Could care less if Trump is making it personal if people start to pay more attention.

                                                                              If only we had honest people to unleash who would review all gov contracts. 4 bill over xx years may be small to you but it could do a lot of good in the right hands, or back in the taxpayers pocket.
                                                                              Not arguing the cost or the fluff but Trump's constant misinforming through his tweets. But lets drill deeper. What is the cost of all that R&D for ALL the equipment and tech needed to keep that plane flying as a mobile command center, which is its purpose. The subcontractors have developed it and should be able to recoup their money as they see fit correct? I mean that is what I always hear from the right on almost everything. So is it unreasonable for a company ( for example) that make highly specialized circuitry designed to withstand a nuclear blast be compensated for such tech?

                                                                              And I agree that we could do alot with 4 billion dollars but as far as priorities go the president being able to maintain control of this country from AIR FORCE one is a big one for me. However I find spending $1.25 trillion on lifetime cost of a F-35 planes to be insane. Reports are that this program will cost $135 million per plane

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                                                                              • You guys are missing the point. The Boeing comment was politics, not policy. Trump isn't trying to ACTUALLY save money by going after the competitive bid process for Air Force One. What he's doing is trying to win over the center-left by attacking the military-industrial complex. He's being Trump. It's all about his popularity.

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                                                                                • Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                  Not arguing the cost or the fluff but Trump's constant misinforming through his tweets. But lets drill deeper. What is the cost of all that R&D for ALL the equipment and tech needed to keep that plane flying as a mobile command center, which is its purpose. The subcontractors have developed it and should be able to recoup their money as they see fit correct? I mean that is what I always hear from the right on almost everything. So is it unreasonable for a company ( for example) that make highly specialized circuitry designed to withstand a nuclear blast be compensated for such tech?

                                                                                  And I agree that we could do alot with 4 billion dollars but as far as priorities go the president being able to maintain control of this country from AIR FORCE one is a big one for me. However I find spending $1.25 trillion on lifetime cost of a F-35 planes to be insane. Reports are that this program will cost $135 million per plane
                                                                                  Yea...I have a theory about how to proceed with "new" weapon systems...build less. I think you stop building them after one detachment...go into a process of evaluation and modification, and then go Full Production if we need them. I love me some technologically superior weaponry...but I see priorities elsewhere.

                                                                                  We are ceding the high ground. As the CNN special just noted, we do not defend our assets deployed in space...we do not have a space-based defensive platform, nor defenses other than limited propulsion systems on board our space assets. This is STUUUUUPID!
                                                                                  One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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                                                                                  • "The DBB report "had limited value" because it "lacked specific, actionable recommendations appropriate to the department."


                                                                                    What an idiotic statement. You can't cut cost without someone telling you where? Maybe you shouldn't be running the department if that's the case.
                                                                                    Last edited by Irish#1; 12-07-2016, 12:10 PM.

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                                                                                    • "Among its other findings, the report showed that the Defense Department was paying just over 1 million contractors, civilian employees and uniformed personnel to fill back-office jobs."

                                                                                      That's unfathomable. One million back office jobs at DoD? That makes no sense whatsoever.

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                                                                                      • Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                                        You guys are missing the point. The Boeing comment was politics, not policy. Trump isn't trying to ACTUALLY save money by going after the competitive bid process for Air Force One. What he's doing is trying to win over the center-left by attacking the military-industrial complex. He's being Trump. It's all about his popularity.
                                                                                        Yeah...the next thing you know, he will be meeting with Al Gore.....huh, wait, what...?
                                                                                        Fan since Vagas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                        • Originally posted by Irish YJ View Post
                                                                                          Let them keep blaming everyone else. The Libs just lost the easiest, most winnable election of all time. F'ing morons.
                                                                                          Hilldog gonna miss that 4 bill AF1
                                                                                          Max Weiss is a stone cold door knob.
                                                                                          BTW I'm happy the GOP have been turned on their heads too. They are not much brighter.


                                                                                          Burn it all down.
                                                                                          Part of that overrun was probably HRC having leather seats with her initials embroided in them

                                                                                          Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                          As always Trump is misleading. Its not $4 billion for one plane. Its for two planes plus R&D plus Testing and evaluation which is part of the Air Force One program. Boeings plane only costs $380 mil. The majority cost is in all the upgrades which are subcontracted out that cost so much money. So he is attackng Boeing for no good reason. There is also an article out ther that says Trump is doing this as retribution for something that occurred between him and Boeing. ...

                                                                                          Anyway, The upgrades are the ones that require it to be a mobile command center. CBO projection says it is currently at $3.7 billion to be paid over 12 years. Within the context of military spending it amounts to a very small portion of the budget. If Trump wants to be real about something he should try his ire at the F-35.
                                                                                          Because of the special needs there is always going to be costs that drive it up, but you can bet that Boeing has padded things quite nicely. They'll add their fee to any subcontractors fees instead of passing it along. Boeing has had this reputation for a long time. While I'm a big fan of the military and believe on staying on top of technology, I do hope and believe Trump will go after the military budget. We seen for 25+ years reports of $150 hammers and $5,000 toilets, yet nothing is ever done.

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                                                                                          • Originally posted by phgreek View Post
                                                                                            I agree with the sentiments. Boeing and other big companies generally operate with a wrap rate of ~2.8-3.5 depending on the business unit. What that means is, if an employee makes 100K, the government pays between 280 and 350K for Boeing to supply the employee for that year. In that number are things like salary, benefits and 401K contributions, general overhead like rent, etc. and profit. Normally DoD contractors average 8-10% profit for labor...not sure how purchasing assets works anymore, but most ODCs (hardware) are capped at 5% profit.

                                                                                            Couple issues...1) large companies cost more, not less, to do business with, and that is ass backwards on its face. 2) abuse generally comes in as civilian employees offload their labor responsibilities to contractors, or jocky for promotion by adding un-needed "heads". 3) large contracts are forced to have certain small business participation. This participation is often driven by cronyism through congress, and places like Boeing get to burn money training idiots to deliver some piece of the contract, and then the idiots still eff it up, then Boeing hires someone to fix it at a premium...this is part of the escalated costs from Boeing itself.

                                                                                            In the case of a Boeing Aircraft, I suspect much cost is in outyear support, because they generally sell them CLS (Conntractor Logistics Support) ... which means the government doesn't own the data, and can't bid out the maintenance tail of the product lifecycle. Now plug in 1) and 2) above.

                                                                                            Trump may not know exactly which sphincter to point at...but something indeed stinks.
                                                                                            It's hard to determine which sphincter when there is so much ass in the mix when talking about DC and defense contractors.

                                                                                            Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                            Not arguing the cost or the fluff but Trump's constant misinforming through his tweets. But lets drill deeper. What is the cost of all that R&D for ALL the equipment and tech needed to keep that plane flying as a mobile command center, which is its purpose. The subcontractors have developed it and should be able to recoup their money as they see fit correct? I mean that is what I always hear from the right on almost everything. So is it unreasonable for a company ( for example) that make highly specialized circuitry designed to withstand a nuclear blast be compensated for such tech?

                                                                                            And I agree that we could do alot with 4 billion dollars but as far as priorities go the president being able to maintain control of this country from AIR FORCE one is a big one for me. However I find spending $1.25 trillion on lifetime cost of a F-35 planes to be insane. Reports are that this program will cost $135 million per plane
                                                                                            F-35 situation is atrocious as are numerous others. The corruption and inefficiency surrounding all of this crap is completely out of control and has been for too long.

                                                                                            I'm all for companies recouping R&D costs, but in most cases (especially in this space), the company gouges the gov, and turns around and uses the technology gained from that R&D on other products (only to continue to improve the margin as they don't have to spread the R&D costs).

                                                                                            Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                                            You guys are missing the point. The Boeing comment was politics, not policy. Trump isn't trying to ACTUALLY save money by going after the competitive bid process for Air Force One. What he's doing is trying to win over the center-left by attacking the military-industrial complex. He's being Trump. It's all about his popularity.
                                                                                            It's that, but it's also tit for tat. Boeing attacks Trump's criticism of TPP, NAFTA, and China, so Trump does a Twitter Trump... It's all politics. But underneath it all, I agree TPP, NAFTA, and China all suck. Boeing is just thinking about all the $ they are making in China. Nothing more.
                                                                                            The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                            Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                            • Originally posted by wizards8507 View Post
                                                                                              "Among its other findings, the report showed that the Defense Department was paying just over 1 million contractors, civilian employees and uniformed personnel to fill back-office jobs."

                                                                                              That's unfathomable. One million back office jobs at DoD? That makes no sense whatsoever.
                                                                                              Now we know how Obama managed to keep unemployment numbers down.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                              • Originally posted by Irish#1 View Post
                                                                                                We seen for 25+ years reports of $150 hammers and $5,000 toilets, yet nothing is ever done.
                                                                                                The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                                Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                • Recounts barely making dent in election results; Trump gains in Wisconsin | Fox News
                                                                                                  The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                                  Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                  • Time mag brands Trump a 'huckster,' calls Clinton 'an American Moses' | Fox News

                                                                                                    bah hah hah....
                                                                                                    American Moses..... you have got to be kidding me.
                                                                                                    The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                                    Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                    • Originally posted by Cackalacky View Post
                                                                                                      Not arguing the cost or the fluff but Trump's constant misinforming through his tweets. But lets drill deeper. What is the cost of all that R&D for ALL the equipment and tech needed to keep that plane flying as a mobile command center, which is its purpose. The subcontractors have developed it and should be able to recoup their money as they see fit correct? I mean that is what I always hear from the right on almost everything. So is it unreasonable for a company ( for example) that make highly specialized circuitry designed to withstand a nuclear blast be compensated for such tech?

                                                                                                      And I agree that we could do alot with 4 billion dollars but as far as priorities go the president being able to maintain control of this country from AIR FORCE one is a big one for me. However I find spending $1.25 trillion on lifetime cost of a F-35 planes to be insane. Reports are that this program will cost $135 million per plane
                                                                                                      Boeing CEO Calls Trump After Air Force One Criticism | Fox Business
                                                                                                      The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
                                                                                                      Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee

                                                                                                      Comment

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