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Bogtrotter07
06-15-2013, 09:26 AM
You talk to Trinity on a regular basis?

LOL!

arrowryan
06-15-2013, 10:08 AM
Tuitt isn't a lock and I doubt he leaves even if he has another 12 sack season

Old Man Mike
06-15-2013, 10:34 AM
The conversation is a good one for occupying dead football hours in June. But all I care about is that Tuitt, Nix, Day, Shembo, Grace, Carlofox, Spond, Jackson, Russell are all playing "first round college football" in 2013. And there is good reason to suspect that they will do that.

If that outfit can play to potential, Shembo, to stick with thread subjects, should be able to be turned loose more by Diaco, and with blocker-eating DLinemen in front of him [Day is going to seem much more backfield-penetrating & terrorizing than rock-solid KLM], The Prince should make many more "WOW!" plays.

On a slightly expanded subject, if the safeties solidify at a "good" level at least, then this defense MIGHT well shut out a bunch of teams, if our offense gives them a fair chance to.

Bogtrotter07
06-15-2013, 03:04 PM
The conversation is a good one for occupying dead football hours in June. But all I care about is that Tuitt, Nix, Day, Shembo, Grace, Carlofox, Spond, Jackson, Russell are all playing "first round college football" in 2013. And there is good reason to suspect that they will do that.

If that outfit can play to potential, Shembo, to stick with thread subjects, should be able to be turned loose more by Diaco, and with blocker-eating DLinemen in front of him [Day is going to seem much more backfield-penetrating & terrorizing than rock-solid KLM], The Prince should make many more "WOW!" plays.

On a slightly expanded subject, if the safeties solidify at a "good" level at least, then this defense MIGHT well shut out a bunch of teams, if our offense gives them a fair chance to.

Zactly!

dwshade
06-15-2013, 03:48 PM
Well, note that I didn't say that about Tuitt...

Same thing applies to him. Matt Barkley was a projected top 5 this time last year. Went in the 4th round. Everyone projected in the draft is capable of falling.

Luckylucci
06-24-2013, 05:07 PM
Prince Shembo 2013 season projection (http://notredame.247sports.com/Article/Prince-Shembo-2013-season-projection-136532)

This gives some color to the debate about Shembo.

tko
07-02-2013, 04:48 PM
I was just watching the ICON video from the USC game and got all jacked up seeing Shembo give Kap his game face after the goal line stand at the end of the game, chills! So pumped for TP's video this Friday!!!!!!

IndyIrishFan1
07-02-2013, 04:53 PM
Just don't steal his bike seat.

tko
07-02-2013, 04:54 PM
Just don't steal his bike seat.

So good. Pull up ICON video 47 and go to the end. That face just fires me up man.

dublinirish
07-15-2013, 12:04 PM
made the Butkus Award watchlist along with Dan Fox anc Carlo Calabrese

Old Man Mike
07-15-2013, 12:25 PM
Unusual thing: Shembo absolutely deserves this, but only if you could add together the combined production of Dan and Carlo would that "second" nomination make preseason sense. Foxabreese or Calafox have the stats to make the list in a rational universe.

Whiskeyjack
07-15-2013, 01:22 PM
Foxabreese or Calafox have the stats to make the list in a rational universe.

Darlo Calabrox, please.

ulukinatme
08-20-2013, 08:29 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>My new Super Saiyan facemask.... <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23lafamille&amp;src=hash">#lafamille</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23heart&amp;src=hash">#heart</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23godismagnificent&amp;src=hash">#godismagnificent</a> <a href="http://t.co/s5PcQeOHJ4">http://t.co/s5PcQeOHJ4</a></p>&mdash; Prince Shembo (@Your_Highness55) <a href="https://twitter.com/Your_Highness55/statuses/369953054277505024">August 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

STLDomer
08-20-2013, 09:03 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>My new Super Saiyan facemask.... <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23lafamille&amp;src=hash">#lafamille</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23heart&amp;src=hash">#heart</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23godismagnificent&amp;src=hash">#godismagnificent</a> <a href="http://t.co/s5PcQeOHJ4">http://t.co/s5PcQeOHJ4</a></p>&mdash; Prince Shembo (@Your_Highness55) <a href="https://twitter.com/Your_Highness55/statuses/369953054277505024">August 20, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

http://i.imgur.com/NHuJ8.gif

dublinirish
08-21-2013, 04:13 AM
an somebody embed it here i cant see instragram at work :/ chanks

ulukinatme
08-21-2013, 09:50 AM
http://distilleryimage11.ak.instagram.com/356d691c09e911e388fe22000ae81dec_7.jpg

rikkitikki08
08-21-2013, 09:54 AM
http://distilleryimage11.ak.instagram.com/356d691c09e911e388fe22000ae81dec_7.jpg

The Bane of Notre Dame Football

CanadalovesND
11-29-2013, 04:09 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Prince Shembo <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball">@NDFootball</a> has accepted an invitation to play in the 2014 East-West Shrine Game. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NDFB&amp;src=hash">#NDFB</a></p>&mdash; Shrine Game (@Shrine_Game) <a href="https://twitter.com/Shrine_Game/statuses/406396465578139649">November 29, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Will join T. J. and Bennett at the East-West Shrine game.

dublinirish
11-29-2013, 05:07 PM
no Senior Bowl invite for TJ???? WTF????

CanadalovesND
11-29-2013, 05:25 PM
no Senior Bowl invite for TJ???? WTF????

He still may play in the game.

Given he has an excellent week and there are injuries in Mobile.

He can be a call-up.

dublinirish
11-29-2013, 05:42 PM
no way there are 8 or whatever better WR's than him in CFB this season, thats mental

CanadalovesND
11-29-2013, 05:55 PM
no way there are 8 or whatever better WR's than him in CFB this season, thats mental

Last year there was 13 WRs.

So far, the WRs to accept invites to the senior bowl are:

Jared Abbrederis, Wisconsin

Robert Herron, Wyoming

Ryan Grant, Tulane

Kain Colter, QB/WR, Northwestern

Cody Hoffman, BYU


With Jones accepting the East-West invite, he'll probably be passed over by the Senior Bowl, even if he was going to get an invite. But, like I said before, if he has a great week of practice, and there is opening due to an injury, he could be first on the call-up list.

Sherm Sticky
11-29-2013, 07:55 PM
He still may play in the game.

Given he has an excellent week and there are injuries in Mobile.

He can be a call-up.

I remember that Ian Williams was supposed to play in the Shrine Game. We didn't hear anything about him the whole week and he didn't play in the game. Turns out he got a late invite to the senior bowl. Could happen for TJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

dublinirish
11-30-2013, 05:26 AM
there was a WR from Elon at the Senior Bowl last year..

Kaneyoufeelit
11-30-2013, 10:01 AM
there was a WR from Elon at the Senior Bowl last year..

Aaron Mellette. He was a 7th round pick by the Ravens

CanadalovesND
01-14-2014, 04:49 AM
Had a solid first day of practice at the East-West Shrine Game.

WalterFootball.com: 2014 East-West Shrine Game Practice Report (http://walterfootball.com/eastwest2014practice2.php)

Another defensive player who stood out was Notre Dame linebacker Prince Shembo. He had a good run fill to stuff a carry. Shembo also had an interception on a deflected pass. College teammate Tommy Rees forced a pass into tight coverage, and Shembo was in the right place to catch the deflection. Shembo lacked consistency in his college career, so it is important for him to play well all week.

Also, he apparently is practicing as a 4-3 WILL

Notre Dame Prince Shembo switching positions East West Shrine Game (http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/notre_dame_prince_shembo_switching_positions_east_ west_shrine_game/15529286?story_article_yb_original_head_15529286)

Notre Dame Prince Shembo finished his career as one of the top defensive players on the team. In Shembo's final season, he recorded 48 tackles and 5.5 sacks. His outstanding play earned him an invite the East-West Shrine Game. "I'm a better athlete than they give me credit for," said Shembo awaiting his first practice in Saint Petersburg, Florida. Shembo is going to put his athletic ability to the test switching positions this week for the game. "I'll be out of position," Shembo said. "We're going to a base 4-3, so we have only six linebackers and four of us are rush linebackers. So someone has to play 'will' (linebacker). So I decided to volunteer." Throughout the history of the East-West Shrine Game, players have been chosen because they are the very best in the country. In fact, there are 246 former East-West Shrine Game players on current NFL rosters. Shembo looks to make the list 247.

Irishman77
01-14-2014, 10:31 AM
The perfect steeler. Been saying this for 3 years!

He was an elite pass rusher that hardly ever got the green light.

Diamond in the ruff...

tko
01-14-2014, 10:36 AM
The perfect steeler. Been saying this for 3 years!

He was an elite pass rusher that hardly ever got the green light.

Diamond in the ruff...

Agree, absolute steal for someone in this draft. I hope he lands with the right club and the right fit.

dublinirish
01-14-2014, 10:39 AM
i dont really rate Shembo as a pass rusher tbh, I wonder sometimes what he could have been like if he was developed as an ILB

irishfan
01-14-2014, 10:44 AM
I'd like to see him slim down to 245 and wreak havoc on the edge. Belichick used to be all about drafting the undersized DEs, I'd love to see him in a Pats uniform and in a Dane Fletcher role.

Cackalacky
01-14-2014, 10:45 AM
Had a solid first day of practice at the East-West Shrine Game.

WalterFootball.com: 2014 East-West Shrine Game Practice Report (http://walterfootball.com/eastwest2014practice2.php)



Also, he apparently is practicing as a 4-3 WILL

Notre Dame Prince Shembo switching positions East West Shrine Game (http://network.yardbarker.com/college_football/article_external/notre_dame_prince_shembo_switching_positions_east_ west_shrine_game/15529286?story_article_yb_original_head_15529286)

I think he projects as this in the NFL. I cant see him playing a 3-4 OLB. Personally would love the Bucs to take him with Lovie and Frazier on staff.

rtrn2glory
01-14-2014, 11:29 AM
imo it would be hard to argue that he would have been effective playing MLB at ND as well.

CanadalovesND
02-18-2014, 03:58 PM
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Prince Shembo (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/prince-shembo?id=2543835)

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS
Large hands. Good balance and knee bend. Strong and physical -- can stuff tight ends and is surprisingly robust at the point of attack. Flows laterally and pursues to the boundary. Strong tackler. Flashes power-leverage potential. Effective stunting and looping. Operated from 2- and 3-point stance and played on special teams.

WEAKNESSES
Lacks ideal body length, elite flexibility and closing speed. Average eyes and instincts (see-and-go reactor). Can improve hand use. Hip tightness shows in space and when required to drop into coverage.

BOTTOM LINE
Thickly built, high-motor, highly competitive edge defender who projects best as a left outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme. Lacks desirable dimensions, flexibility and finishing speed, but has more than enough play strength, tenacity and toughness to compensate.

Huntr
02-22-2014, 06:07 PM
Shembo talking about Lizzy Seeburg (http://notredame.247sports.com/Article/Prince-Shembo-Acknowledges-Seeberg-Case-178813). NFL GMs at the combine have asked about the situation. Ugh.

stlnd01
02-22-2014, 06:20 PM
Shembo talking about Lizzy Seeburg (http://notredame.247sports.com/Article/Prince-Shembo-Acknowledges-Seeberg-Case-178813). NFL GMs at the combine have asked about the situation. Ugh.

Well, yeah. Why wouldn't they? They ask about everything else. Almost sounded from that interview like he's glad to be able to explain his side of the story at last.

Huntr
02-22-2014, 06:23 PM
Well, yeah. Why wouldn't they? They ask about everything else. Almost sounded from that interview like he's glad to be able to explain his side of the story at last.

No, of course they would ask and they should. "Ugh" was for the fact that it had to come up, inevitable as it was.

woolybug25
02-22-2014, 06:31 PM
Funny how they mention the situation by name but call Lewan threatening to rape a rape victim as "an incident".

Bogtrotter07
02-22-2014, 06:41 PM
You know, I am about as big a victim's advocate as has come down the pike. But this is not about the poor young girl being the only victim.

It is amazing the made up filth that I have seen on this subject. I hope this part of the conversation fizzles and is overshadowed by his great combine performance.

Irish#1
02-22-2014, 06:47 PM
You know, I am about as big a victim's advocate as has come down the pike. But this is not about the poor young girl being the only victim.

It is amazing the made up filth that I have seen on this subject. I hope this part of the conversation fizzles and is overshadowed by his great combine performance.

Agree

IrishSteelhead
02-22-2014, 10:35 PM
It's on ESPN now, so buckle up,

illmatic630
02-23-2014, 10:02 PM
NFL teams can't take Prince Shembo's word for it
Jerry Angelo, other GMs should keep digging for the truth about Notre Dame defensive end's behavior, character


David Haugh
In the Wake of the News
7:35 p.m. CST, February 23, 2014

After one Notre Dame football practice in August, coach Brian Kelly described defensive end Prince Shembo to reporters.

"He plays the game with that chip where (he is) going to do whatever's necessary to be disruptive,'' Kelly said. "You almost have to take his helmet away from him.''

I recall cringing as I read Kelly's comments in print. Yeah, disruptive.

Taking Shembo's helmet away for a couple of games was something I suggested Kelly should have done in September 2010 when the player was accused of sexual battery by St. Mary's College student Lizzy Seeberg. And Kelly's description certainly fit Shembo's profile on and off the field based on the reporting by many media members who knew of his alleged role in this tragic saga from the start.

Attention, Bears general manager Phil Emery and 31 other NFL peers considering drafting Shembo in the late rounds: Keep digging. Go beyond the surface-level interview Shembo conducted at the NFL scouting combine. See if Shembo indeed established a pattern of disciplinary problems back home in Charlotte, N.C., that Notre Dame coaches ignored. Find the high school teacher whom Shembo allegedly threw a desk at after having his cellphone taken away, as Politics Daily reported. Chase the rumors about Shembo's past, which reporters never had context to pursue or report as the media concealed the identity of someone not charged with a crime as a matter of fairness.

Now that Shembo chose to come forward Saturday at the NFL combine in Indianapolis, evaluating his character issues also becomes fair.

When Shembo publicly identified himself as the accused for the first time, he attempted to clear his name but only added a few more smudges. Shembo did the most damage taking a troubling blame-the-victim tone, impugning a 19-year-old from Northbrook who committed suicide nine days after filing a complaint that alleged inappropriate touching during an incident in Shembo's dorm room.

"I'm innocent, I didn't do anything,'' Shembo told ESPN.com. "I'm the one who ended it and pretty much told the girl that we should stop, that we shouldn't be doing this. … I was a freshman. I don't think games even started yet, and she was older than me.''

The older woman Shembo referred to was born 147 days before he was.

If Shembo believed he was blameless, why wait 31/2 years to try clearing his name, which he said "was going to flames"? Why didn't Shembo return repeated calls from Notre Dame Security Police after Seeberg reported the incident? It wasn't as if Shembo was unaware, regardless of Saturday's claims. Two days after the alleged attack, a close friend of Shembo sent a text message to Seeberg warning: "Messing with Notre Dame football is a bad idea.'' Yet two weeks passed until Shembo finally gave his statement to campus police. If Shembo really professed innocence about the whole ordeal, why was his punk friend aggressively texting threats?

"I was like, 'What?' I was confused,'' Shembo recalled Saturday of his NDSP interview. "They were asking questions and I didn't know what they were talking about because I didn't do anything.''

He didn't proclaim his innocence then because he says Kelly urged him to stay silent.

"I wanted to, but they had to keep everything confidential,'' Shembo said. "Now that I'm out (of school), I can talk about it.''

Great, so please explain how a kid from North Carolina retained a prominent Chicago personal-injury attorney, a Notre Dame graduate who worked in concert with the university's public relations office, according to a 2012 National Catholic Reporter story. Please discuss any personal knowledge of the intimidation tactics via text used to scare Seeberg. And the next time Shembo addresses his indirect but undeniable link to Seeberg, perhaps he can show some respect or sympathy for the memory of a young woman who died too soon after keeping his company.

This might feel like it's over to Shembo. To the Seeberg family, which publicly declined comment, the emptiness lingers. Both the local prosecutor and a university disciplinary panel eventually cleared Shembo, but that didn't make it easier for Seebergs to see No. 55 in a gold helmet every autumn Saturday. Zachary Fardon, now the highly regarded U.S. Attorney in Chicago, felt so strongly about the Seebergs' contention that Notre Dame mishandled the case that he represented the family for free.

In the NFL, Shembo will encounter more acceptance than outrage if he can rush the passer. The only person who can refute his claims of innocence is dead. The media has moved on, if interest in Indy was any indication.

Shembo finally broke his 41-month silence to a handful of reporters. In the same building, openly gay prospect Michael Sam commanded the biggest media crowd. Both NFL prospects proclaimed they had nothing to hide, but only one was convincing.

dhaugh@tribune.com

Twitter @DavidHaugh


thoughts?

Irish#1
02-23-2014, 10:11 PM
thoughts?

Certainly doesn't present things in a good light. I guess we'll see how much this effects his draft status come the draft.

IrishSteelhead
02-23-2014, 10:13 PM
thoughts?

You knew these type of stories would be rolling off the press once the media had a green light. It is what it is, awful for all parties involved. Dragging BK into it was a nice touch for the axe grinding reporter.

Rack Em
02-23-2014, 10:14 PM
thoughts?

Here's a link to the actual police report for anybody who wishes to read it or send it to that douche.

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-12/272335660-16095122.pdf

What happened was unfortunate. But nothing criminal occurred and Res Life could have conducted an investigation and disciplined him as well. This isn't the same as fat-fucking-low-life-piece-of-shit-rapist Brendan Gibbons and fat-fucking-low-life-piece-of-shit-rapist-accomplice Taylor Lewan incident in which Michigan covered it up and swept it under the rug. NDSPD probably should have dealt with it sooner because sexual assault is serious. But what does this a-hole think Shembo should have done differently? Expose the University and the team by opening up his mouth? He's just another douche journalist with an ax to grind and binoculars that don't reach Ann Arbor.

irishff1014
02-23-2014, 10:32 PM
I guess I overlooked this when this was reported the first time

stlnd01
02-23-2014, 11:08 PM
Here's a link to the actual police report for anybody who wishes to read it or send it to that douche.

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-12/272335660-16095122.pdf

What happened was unfortunate. But nothing criminal occurred and Res Life could have conducted an investigation and disciplined him as well. This isn't the same as fat-fucking-low-life-piece-of-shit-rapist Brendan Gibbons and fat-fucking-low-life-piece-of-shit-rapist-accomplice Taylor Lewan incident in which Michigan covered it up and swept it under the rug. NDSPD probably should have dealt with it sooner because sexual assault is serious. But what does this a-hole think Shembo should have done differently? Expose the University and the team by opening up his mouth? He's just another douche journalist with an ax to grind and binoculars that don't reach Ann Arbor.

There's not much Shembo could have done differently. He was a new freshman, told to keep his mouth shut by the program, and he did what he was told. If, as it seems, nothing criminal actually happened that night, he'll be fine.

There's a lot, though, that Notre Dame could have done differently - and I don't mean by coming down hard on Shembo, but by treating the Seebergs with the grace and sympathy they deserved instead of lawyering up and dragging her dead name through the mud spreading intimations of mental illness. While I don't think there's much to be gained by dredging the whole episode up yet again, I still think it's about the worst thing Notre Dame's administration has done in a long time. David Haugh appears to agree.

And comparisons to Michigan (or most other schools with sexual assault cases) are irrelevant. We hold ourselves to a higher standard. Most of the time we meet it. We deserve to be called out when we don't.

D-BOE34
02-23-2014, 11:24 PM
There's not much Shembo could have done differently. He was a new freshman, told to keep his mouth shut by the program, and he did what he was told. If, as it seems, nothing criminal actually happened that night, he'll be fine.

There's a lot, though, that Notre Dame could have done differently - and I don't mean by coming down hard on Shembo, but by treating the Seebergs with the grace and sympathy they deserved instead of lawyering up and dragging her dead name through the mud spreading intimations of mental illness. While I don't think there's much to be gained by dredging the whole episode up yet again, I still think it's about the worst thing Notre Dame's administration has done in a long time. David Haugh appears to agree.

And comparisons to Michigan (or most other schools with sexual assault cases) are irrelevant. We hold ourselves to a higher standard. Most of the time we meet it. We deserve to be called out when we don't.

100%

IrishLax
02-23-2014, 11:43 PM
There's not much Shembo could have done differently. He was a new freshman, told to keep his mouth shut by the program, and he did what he was told. If, as it seems, nothing criminal actually happened that night, he'll be fine.

There's a lot, though, that Notre Dame could have done differently - and I don't mean by coming down hard on Shembo, but by treating the Seebergs with the grace and sympathy they deserved instead of lawyering up and dragging her dead name through the mud spreading intimations of mental illness. While I don't think there's much to be gained by dredging the whole episode up yet again, I still think it's about the worst thing Notre Dame's administration has done in a long time. David Haugh appears to agree.

And comparisons to Michigan (or most other schools with sexual assault cases) are irrelevant. We hold ourselves to a higher standard. Most of the time we meet it. We deserve to be called out when we don't.

The only part I don't agree with is what I bolded. What actually happened is that the Seebergs came looking for answers, ND gave them what answers they thought they could (that Lizzy wasn't a student of theirs, and that as far as their investigation was concerned no criminal activity had occurred)... then the Seebergs threatened lawsuits and demanded settlement money and said they'd go to the press unless they got $$, and ND balked at them as ND is not about to extorted and pay hush money. And then the story broke.

Her mental illness history came to light because she OD'd on her anti-depressents. As such, you had to at least allude to why she had anti-depressants. The public has only gotten to hear a shred of her issues at that. There sure as hell hasn't been a smear campaign. If there was, you'd know.

The fact that this is still being talked about is a testament to a horrible PR strategy and nothing else. There are a lot of legitimate questions to be asked of NDSP, etc. but at the same time people who knew Lizzy have just as many for why on earth her parents sent her back off to school, etc. There are so many layers to this that no one really talks about at all because it's not juicy and doesn't get clicks.

gkIrish
02-24-2014, 12:19 AM
I've been trying to get people to avoid talking about this story but since it's out in the open now...

This reporter is a clown and all you need to know about that article is found in the last paragraph. What in the world does Michael Sam have to do with the Seeburg story? Absolutely nothing. This dude is just looking for hits off google searches of Sam. Thank you to the OP for quoting the article rather than posting the link.

ulukinatme
02-24-2014, 04:56 AM
Hopefully this is the last time this story has to be discussed by the media, but I doubt they'll be able to avoid going to the well when they want some hits. I know I'll continue to see jabs about it from other teams when I peruse other football forums. It's inconceivable that the Gibbons/Lewan thing hasn't gotten more traction, yet Shembo touched a breast and the story will not die. I feel for the Seebergs, certainly, but it's got to be gut wrenching to have this story resurface now if you're the parents. I hope I never have to go through a situation like that as a parent, I would be devastated. I understand Shembo's desire to clear the air and tell his side though. Up to this point, we've only heard the Seeberg's side.

ThePiombino
02-24-2014, 05:54 AM
I've been trying to get people to avoid talking about this story but since it's out in the open now...

This "reporter" is a clown and all you need to know about that article is found in the last paragraph. What in the world does Michael Sam have to do with the Seeburg story? Absolutely nothing. This dude is just looking for hits off google searches of Sam. Thank you to the OP for quoting the article rather than posting the link.

FIFY

ND-North
02-24-2014, 09:26 AM
I don't post here much but I personally knew Shembo and the kid who sent the infamous "don't mess with ND" text message. First off that kid was a piece of shit and I firmly believe he acted independently. Secondly what Prince did was completely innocent by college standards and he even stopped when she told him to. Now Prince is definitely not the smartest guy so who knows if he said something inappropriate but he didn't seem like the kind of kid that would do something malicious on purpose. I did not know Lizzy and the whole situation is really unfortunate, but from what I heard Prince should not be held responsible whatsoever for her suicide

T Town Tommy
02-24-2014, 09:32 AM
NFL teams may have the right to question him about the incident, but a hack reporter wanting to write a negative article doesn't. Shembo should have simply said "next question." JMO

dublinirish
02-24-2014, 09:48 AM
I don't post here much but I personally knew Shembo and the kid who sent the infamous "don't mess with ND" text message. First off that kid was a piece of shit and I firmly believe he acted independently. Secondly what Prince did was completely innocent by college standards and he even stopped when she told him to. Now Prince is definitely not the smartest guy so who knows if he said something inappropriate but he didn't seem like the kind of kid that would do something malicious on purpose. I did not know Lizzy and the whole situation is really unfortunate, but from what I heard Prince should not be held responsible whatsoever for her suicide

was the texter a ND football player?

ND-North
02-24-2014, 09:51 AM
was the texter a ND football player?

No

GowerND11
02-24-2014, 09:57 AM
Was Lewan asked at all at the Combine about his role in the Gibbons case? That, to me, would be a red flag that needs to be asked.

goldandblue
02-24-2014, 10:00 AM
Huh... I never knew it was Prince Shembo that was involved in that situation. I hope that he is innocent.

dublinirish
02-24-2014, 10:09 AM
Huh... I never knew it was Prince Shembo that was involved in that situation. I hope that he is innocent.

i had always presumed it was a player who transferred out tbh.

was this all widely known on campus etc? i had never known or even asked who it was.

Huntr
02-24-2014, 10:23 AM
Was Lewan asked at all at the Combine about his role in the Gibbons case? That, to me, would be a red flag that needs to be asked.

Yes, he talked about it in his press conference. You can bet every NFL team he met with asked, as well.


i had always presumed it was a player who transferred out tbh.

was this all widely known on campus etc? i had never known or even asked who it was.

I'm sure it was, since it was on the internet w/in a month. I read it on the Spartans 247 board in like Dec 2010.

dublinirish
02-24-2014, 10:25 AM
Lewan still comes across as a scumbag, Schofield as well
They still stand up for Gibbons

Taylor Lewan attempts to clear his name at 2014 NFL combine | Audibles - SI.com (http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/20/taylor-lewan-nfl-combine-2014/)

ulukinatme
02-24-2014, 10:25 AM
i had always presumed it was a player who transferred out tbh.

was this all widely known on campus etc? i had never known or even asked who it was.

It wasn't out there in any articles circulating online, at least not directly. However, Shembo's name would come up in the comments occasionally, and there were people on campus leaking it as well. Eventually it just kind of became somewhat well known, but never spoken of.

connor_in
02-24-2014, 10:27 AM
Here's a link to the actual police report for anybody who wishes to read it or send it to that douche.

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-12/272335660-16095122.pdf

What happened was unfortunate. But nothing criminal occurred and Res Life could have conducted an investigation and disciplined him as well. This isn't the same as fat-fucking-low-life-piece-of-shit-rapist Brendan Gibbons and fat-fucking-low-life-piece-of-shit-rapist-accomplice Taylor Lewan incident in which Michigan covered it up and swept it under the rug. NDSPD probably should have dealt with it sooner because sexual assault is serious. But what does this a-hole think Shembo should have done differently? Expose the University and the team by opening up his mouth? He's just another douche journalist with an ax to grind and binoculars that don't reach Ann Arbor.

I am sorry to ask this, but the report you cite just lists the touching of her breasts. I know various articles have referred to rape and/or sexual assult. Do we know exactly what Lizzy Seeburg claims to have happened? Or have her statements to the police not come out?

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 10:28 AM
The police report made it clear that it was being investigated as a minor sexual battery. Fondling a breast, consistent with sexual arousal.

Second of all, the other kid : do I remember that he got disciplined for his involvement? Did he end up leaving the University?

Third this reporter called Shembo "the accused." When a reporter does that, it is always all over.

Fourth, in his article the reporter intimated that he advised Brian Kelly to suspend this kid for his first couple of games. Prince played sparingly his first season, but that campaign was just about over before any investigation had been closed. So how could this guy have recommended Kelly do anything to Prince for his first couple games? On the timeline, if this guys intimations were correct, they were still looking at Shembo for "something more," which could only be "rape." Correct? Someone needs to ask this brain-damaged, zero IQ hack, why he then would only recommend that Kelly only take "a rapists helmet away for a couple of games?" The problem is that most of the population isn't smart enough to see the truth, or enjoys the sensationalism.

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 10:33 AM
I am sorry to ask this, but the report you cite just lists the touching of her breasts. I know various articles have referred to rape and/or sexual assult. Do we know exactly what Lizzy Seeburg claims to have happened? Or have her statements to the police not come out?

THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT! FROM WHAT SHE SAID, IT WAS EVER ONLY BEING INVESTIGATED AS THE MOST MINOR OF THE CHARGABLE OFFENSES. MINOR SEXUAL BATTERY, NOT RAPE! IT SAYS IN THE COMPLAINT THAT RAPE WAS NEVER ALLGED!!!

The screaming wasn't for you. It was for those that didn't even research this and put out the tons of filth that have been spewed.

I want to know, with all the rapes that clearly happen, with good kits, that never get charged, why is this continually being described as rape?

I know an attorney who has a close connection with a prosecuting attorney somewhere close to the situation. This whole situation was sideways from the get go. Although I had not heard that her family initiated contact with ND demanding a settlement.

ulukinatme
02-24-2014, 10:49 AM
THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT! FROM WHAT SHE SAID, IT WAS EVER ONLY BEING INVESTIGATED AS THE MOST MINOR OF THE CHARGABLE OFFENSES. MINOR SEXUAL BATTERY, NOT RAPE! IT SAYS IN THE COMPLAINT THAT RAPE WAS NEVER ALLGED!!!

The screaming wasn't for you. It was for those that didn't even research this and put out the tons of filth that have been spewed.

I want to know, with all the rapes that clearly happen, with good kits, that never get charged, why is this continually being described as rape?

I know an attorney who has a close connection with a prosecuting attorney somewhere close to the situation. This whole situation was sideways from the get go. Although I had not heard that her family initiated contact with ND demanding a settlement.

This. I think because it's Notre Dame, and the fact there was so much media attention brought to the case from the start, people just assumed it was rape. I tried fighting that notion on a number of other forums over the last few years, but it's almost impossible to set the record straight. As far as others are concerned, facts are meaningless, it was rape and not alleged sexual assault, guilty as not charged. Occasionally someone would acknowledge that maybe it wasn't rape, but then they would start debating why sexual assault is just as bad as rape. That's about the time I say "This is pointless, I'm done here." Sure, a sin is a sin, but morally one action is certainly more devastating than the other. Also, we're still talking about alleged sexual assault here. Those that know Shembo say "That's not him," and unfortunately we know even less about Ms. Seeberg other than she had willingly gone into Shembo's room and had previous problems with anxiety/depression based on her medication. She at least deserved a trial, but with her untimely passing it was unlikely it was going to happen.

gkIrish
02-24-2014, 10:57 AM
I am sorry to ask this, but the report you cite just lists the touching of her breasts. I know various articles have referred to rape and/or sexual assult. Do we know exactly what Lizzy Seeburg claims to have happened? Or have her statements to the police not come out?

Don't have much to add to what Bogs and ulukinatme said but this is why Shembo's name never deserved to be publicized in the first place. Because people would eventually turn this into a rape story rather than what it actually was.

dublinirish
02-24-2014, 11:19 AM
Don't have much to add to what Bogs and ulukinatme said but this is why Shembo's name never deserved to be publicized in the first place. Because people would eventually turn this into a rape story rather than what it actually was.

Wouldnt Shembo and his representation have been better to confront the story head-on and control the information when the rumours were initially flying around? 3 years or whatever is a terrible long time for a player to have to carry this around

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 11:26 AM
Shembo, (and others) have stated that the University, and particularly Brian Kelly, asked him to remain silent.

Huntr
02-24-2014, 11:29 AM
Really, what's he gonna say 3 years ago? Pretty much what he said at the combine and what did that get him? That trib garbage posted above, only it would have been X 9000 since the incident was fresh and more ppl would have had the knives out.

wizards8507
02-24-2014, 11:37 AM
Huh... I never knew it was Prince Shembo that was involved in that situation. I hope that he is innocent.

That's the thing. There's nothing to be innocent of. Even if he is 100% guilty of everything laid against him, the "guiltiest" he would be is that he was making out with a girl in his dorm room and got a little grabby. Honestly, if that's a crime, you better lock up 50+% of the population aged 15-35, male and female.

People want to lay Lizzy Seeberg's suicide on this guy based on what happened. It's natural to seek someone to blame when a tragedy occurs, but you just can't do that if there's no proximate cause.

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 11:38 AM
Remember, this all fits with the Seeburg family initially contacted ND threatening a law suit, which is what seeking a settlement translates to, correct?

Rack Em
02-24-2014, 01:00 PM
A bunch of my St. Mary's friends are super pissed and taking to social media with this article. If I say anything and challenge the vitriol that was fostered on that campus over this incident, I'm an ass. If I say nothing, this hack gets more hits and more fuel for his fire.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Lax and Wizard hit it on the head though so I won't post a rehash of their statements. NDSP could have been faster on the uptake, but in the end there was nothing they could do. An investigation was conducted by the county police that turned up nothing. It's the unfortunate consequence when the primary witness is unavailable.

zelezo vlk
02-24-2014, 01:12 PM
A bunch of my St. Mary's friends are super pissed and taking to social media with this article. If I say anything and challenge the vitriol that was fostered on that campus over this incident, I'm an ass. If I say nothing, this hack gets more hits and more fuel for his fire.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Lax and Wizard hit it on the head though so I won't post a rehash of their statements. NDSP could have been faster on the uptake, but in the end there was nothing they could do. An investigation was conducted by the county police that turned up nothing. It's the unfortunate consequence when the primary witness is unavailable.

This is unfortunately the case with plenty of stories out there. Everybody would rather be outraged. I can't tell you how many of my friends were all over FB pre-NCG with the story and I just did not have the courage to explain everything. Oh well.

Back to Shembo, has his combine performance done anything to his stock?

dublinirish
02-24-2014, 01:14 PM
A bunch of my St. Mary's friends are super pissed and taking to social media with this article. If I say anything and challenge the vitriol that was fostered on that campus over this incident, I'm an ass. If I say nothing, this hack gets more hits and more fuel for his fire.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. .

Im guessing Shembo wasnt the most popular guy on campus then? Seems like that would be a miserable situation to be in, very surprized a kid would want to stick around at ND with something like that over you.

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 01:29 PM
Im guessing Shembo wasnt the most popular guy on campus then? Seems like that would be a miserable situation to be in, very surprized a kid would want to stick around at ND with something like that over you.

Rack is talking about his girlfriend, and some other friends. At St Mary's. Not ND. (LOL)

But in all seriousness, if Prince were low character, I do think he would have been gone.

wizards8507
02-24-2014, 01:36 PM
A bunch of my St. Mary's friends are super pissed and taking to social media with this article. If I say anything and challenge the vitriol that was fostered on that campus over this incident, I'm an ass. If I say nothing, this hack gets more hits and more fuel for his fire.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Lax and Wizard hit it on the head though so I won't post a rehash of their statements. NDSP could have been faster on the uptake, but in the end there was nothing they could do. An investigation was conducted by the county police that turned up nothing. It's the unfortunate consequence when the primary witness is unavailable.
I just wanted to draw attention to the bolded. I was a student when this all went down and had a handful of classes at SMC (three philosophy and one accounting) and I can absolutely attest to the fact that the outrage was encouraged by faculty, staff, and administrators. There's a hyper-feminist faction at SMC that views every man as a sexual predator and every woman as the Blessed Virgin reincarnate. They hate Notre Dame like you wouldn't believe because they see male ND students as the great Temptor and female ND students as gender traitors.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

Rack Em
02-24-2014, 01:50 PM
I just wanted to draw attention to the bolded. I was a student when this all went down and had a handful of classes at SMC (three philosophy and one accounting) and I can absolutely attest to the fact that the outrage was encouraged by faculty, staff, and administrators. There's a hyper-feminist faction at SMC that views every man as a sexual predator and every woman as the Blessed Virgin reincarnate. They hate Notre Dame like you wouldn't believe because they see male ND students as the great Temptor and female ND students as gender traitors.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

Dude, I can't rep you again. Someone get this man some reps! We were at ND at the same time and I'm glad I'm not the only one who notice that.

I love SMC. It's a really fantastic place, but there is a faction over there that definitely perpetuated this. It then spilled over to much of the rest of the student body in the form of "SMC Pride" or campus spirit. I think the pride those girls take in their school is amazing. But, like many schools, those sentiments get in the way of objectivity sometimes.

Bogs, you're right haha! And Dublin, I don't think it affected Prince's reputation around campus too much. The hyper feminist haters were going to hate despite the facts. Others were concerned with NDSP's response but the majority moved on once the facts were released. Wizards would you agree?

PLACforever
02-24-2014, 01:52 PM
"This might feel like it's over to Shembo. To the Seeberg family, which publicly declined comment, the emptiness lingers. Both the local prosecutor and a university disciplinary panel eventually cleared Shembo, but that didn't make it easier for Seebergs to see No. 55 in a gold helmet every autumn Saturday."

Umm, if they declined comment, how do you know how they feel about it?
AND, way to start sentences with conjunctions you hack (see what I did there?)

ulukinatme
02-24-2014, 01:59 PM
Dude, I can't rep you again. Someone get this man some reps! We were at ND at the same time and I'm glad I'm not the only one who notice that.


Reps have been given

wizards8507
02-24-2014, 02:19 PM
Dude, I can't rep you again. Someone get this man some reps! We were at ND at the same time and I'm glad I'm not the only one who notice that.

I love SMC. It's a really fantastic place, but there is a faction over there that definitely perpetuated this. It then spilled over to much of the rest of the student body in the form of "SMC Pride" or campus spirit. I think the pride those girls take in their school is amazing. But, like many schools, those sentiments get in the way of objectivity sometimes.

The hyper feminist haters were going to hate despite the facts. Others were concerned with NDSP's response but the majority moved on once the facts were released. Wizards would you agree?
I agree completely. My wife is a Saint Mary's graduate and three years after graduation I probably have more continued friendships with SMC students than ND students. Even most of my SMC friends acknowledge that the culture over there can be somewhat hostile towards Notre Dame and men in general. I think it's due to a combination of different types of people that together leads to something unhealthy.

1. Many of the students are from Catholic, all-female high schools. They have had limited exposure to males in academic or social settings, which creates a natural discomford. With the high Catholic population, Notre Dame also has many freshmen enrolling from single-sex high schools, but they're given a bit of a baptism by fire during Frosh-O and have to get over their discomfort real quick once classes start.

2. Many students went to SMC specifically because it's an all-women's college rather than deciding "this is the school I like best, and it just happens to be an all-women's college." Again, this comes with certain innate biases. There's a reason why they sought out an all-female education.

3. Some of the women are from "Notre Dame families" and feel tremendous pressure to be a part of that community. This creates resentment from the girls who went to Saint Mary's for its own sake, because every SMC student will tell you that Notre Dame had nothing to do with their decision to enroll, even though, for many of them, it did.

This is getting a bit further off topic, but I believe that the worst thing that ever happened to Saint Mary's was when Notre Dame admitted women. I'm not saying it was right or wrong, but I think if Notre Dame were still an all-male school, Saint Mary's would have developed at a similar pace and both would be recognized as elite institutions on par with where Notre Dame is now. Saint Mary's still has some excellent students, but they've been forced to lower their admissions standards just to fill the freshman class every year. The applicant pool just isn't large enough. It's causing some legitimate financial concerns for the school.

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 02:36 PM
I agree completely. My wife is a Saint Mary's graduate and three years after graduation I probably have more continued friendships with SMC students than ND students. Even most of my SMC friends acknowledge that the culture over there can be somewhat hostile towards Notre Dame and men in general. I think it's due to a combination of different types of people that together leads to something unhealthy.
1. Many of the students are from Catholic, all-female high schools. They have had limited exposure to males in academic or social settings, which creates a natural discomford. With the high Catholic population, Notre Dame also has many freshmen enrolling from single-sex high schools, but they're given a bit of a baptism by fire during Frosh-O and have to get over their discomfort real quick once classes start.

2. Many students went to SMC specifically because it's an all-women's college rather than deciding "this is the school I like best, and it just happens to be an all-women's college." Again, this comes with certain innate biases. There's a reason why they sought out an all-female education.

3. Some of the women are from "Notre Dame families" and feel tremendous pressure to be a part of that community. This creates resentment from the girls who went to Saint Mary's for its own sake, because every SMC student will tell you that Notre Dame had nothing to do with their decision to enroll, even though, for many of them, it did.

This is getting a bit further off topic, but I believe that the worst thing that ever happened to Saint Mary's was when Notre Dame admitted women. I'm not saying it was right or wrong, but I think if Notre Dame were still an all-male school, Saint Mary's would have developed at a similar pace and both would be recognized as elite institutions on par with where Notre Dame is now. Saint Mary's still has some excellent students, but they've been forced to lower their admissions standards just to fill the freshman class every year. The applicant pool just isn't large enough. It's causing some legitimate financial concerns for the school.

Is this a class issue?

And there is two more elephants in the room.

One is the very real issue of race; did it influence a panic that may have led to the original complaint.

And the last elephant? There is one more thing required than the two things that I quoted above for their to be a crime. Inability to consent.

dshans
02-24-2014, 04:30 PM
... but I believe that the worst thing that ever happened to Saint Mary's was when Notre Dame admitted women. I'm not saying it was right or wrong ...

Interesting point. I was a junior at ND when they first admitted women. There had been ongoing negotiations for a merger between SMC and ND. Incoming fresh(wo)men at SMC in 1970 were told that they would graduate with a Notre Dame degree.

Negotions broke down when it became clear that what ND had in mind was not a merger but an "absorption" that gave no credence to the hard fought quality and reputation of an outright SMC education. The board and administration at SMC eventually said "thanks but no thanks."

When ND declared itself coed somewhere in the neighborhood of 95% of the the 1,200 women first admitted were SMC transfers. Many of my female friends wound up ND students with a "prestigious" Notre Dame degree. Far too many had a "second tier" SMC sheepskin.

I admire SMC for their stance. I wish ND hadn't been such snobs and bullies. The transition could have been much smoother and more effective without being so divisive.

This is all by my recollection. What's done is done and historical research means little to me in this instance.

gkIrish
02-24-2014, 04:42 PM
The problem with SMC is that they want all of the advantages ND offers its students while going out of their way to protest everything ND guys think or do. They write editorials about disgusting male behavior at parties but are 10x more promiscuous than ND female students. Obviously I'm making a generalization and there are plenty of exceptions but SMC girls always rubbed me the wrong way and I never spent time over there.

ulukinatme
02-24-2014, 04:44 PM
...SMC girls always rubbed me the wrong way...

That's what they do best



disclaimer: ulukinatme has never met an SMC girl, nor been rubbed by one the wrong way

wizards8507
02-24-2014, 04:50 PM
The problem with SMC is that they want all of the advantages ND offers its students while going out of their way to protest everything ND guys think or do. They write editorials about disgusting male behavior at parties but are 10x more promiscuous than ND female students. Obviously I'm making a generalization and there are plenty of exceptions but SMC girls always rubbed me the wrong way and I never spent time over there.
Well there's your problem. The only SMC girls you would have ever run into are the ones you met at bars and parties.

gkIrish
02-24-2014, 05:01 PM
Well there's your problem. The only SMC girls you would have ever run into are the ones you met at bars and parties.

I was waiting for you to post. Actually, I was president of a club where half our members were SMC girls. Didn't care for most of them. Spent 2-4 hours per week with them. I was being literal when I said I never physically went over there; didn't mean I didn't know any SMC girls.

GowerND11
02-24-2014, 06:37 PM
Well there's your problem. The only SMC girls you would have ever run into are the ones you met at bars and parties.

As one of my best friends would describe these girls: "Came over on the Sluttle."

He was at ND from 06-10.

Edit: No disrespect towards the SMC girls. Especially towards you and your significant other Wizards.

wizards8507
02-24-2014, 06:40 PM
As one of my best friends would describe these girls: "Came over on the Sluttle."

He was at ND from 06-10.

My SMC friends tried to rename it the "Skank Tank." It didn't catch on.

Jerry
02-24-2014, 07:19 PM
I am sorry to ask this, but the report you cite just lists the touching of her breasts. I know various articles have referred to rape and/or sexual assult. Do we know exactly what Lizzy Seeburg claims to have happened? Or have her statements to the police not come out?

They printed her exact statement to police in the Chicago Tribune. That's what always got me about this case. If i tried to tell people it wasn't a rape they would roll their eyes, but there isn't as much mystery to this case as some people like to pretend.

wizards8507
02-24-2014, 07:31 PM
I am sorry to ask this, but the report you cite just lists the touching of her breasts. I know various articles have referred to rape and/or sexual assult. Do we know exactly what Lizzy Seeburg claims to have happened? Or have her statements to the police not come out?
Unwanted touching of the breasts" IS "sexual assault" by the letter of the law, but "sexual assault" sounds more scandalous so that's what they print. Anything that says "rape" is an outright fabrication.

Old Man Mike
02-24-2014, 08:01 PM
I've been holding off saying anything here, because I said almost all I felt way back when when IE hashed this to death four years ago. BUT....

If one insists on handing out "guilt" in this circumstance, that guilt goes to the parents... not the girl, and not the boy [neither of them were angels, but the parents created this risk.]

How? They had a daughter, by all reports a wonderful and beautiful girl, who just happened to have a brain chemistry glitch which required her to take some serious anti-depressant medicine --- at least that is what the post-suicide reporting said. These parents, wishing for the fantasy that a daughter in this situation could just go out there and live like any other young girl [of what? a sheltered 19?] SENT HER AWAY TO SCHOOL, and away from her safety nest, while still requiring medication. One can see how some parents might have wanted to believe that she could handle it, but it's still foolish.

So our sweetheart [and I say this very affectionately and in anger over her lost life] tried. One day she decided to go to an event where she and her girlfriend would try to stretch their wings. Lots of girls were doing the same with the masculine ND jocks. She and her girlfriend "take a little chance" with a big powerful freshman and his friend and wander away. She's almost by definition flirting with this move, and the guy begins to see where this will go.

She panics. He angrily caves and walks away. He's scared for his football life. She's panicked about her own ability to cope normally. His jackass friend soon pours gasoline on the nerves of everyone.

Sometime later ... several days later if I remember it ... this, plus whatever other stresses she is feeling, make her take the worst possible "solution" to what she feels about herself.

The parents never grow up. They pursue every rumor and media opportunity like ... well, like people refusing to face the fact that it is THEMSELVES who put their daughter into a situation that she couldn't handle.

The world will never focus on the people who really screwed up here. They'll focus on the athlete ... because he's cheapshot easy to try to blame for what?.... fondling the breast of a pretty girl who walked away with him.

Yeh. He's the "criminal" alright.


I should have just kept out of this thread, but DAMM this one makes me angry ... for Prince and even more for Lizzy.

Bogtrotter07
02-24-2014, 11:21 PM
I've been holding off saying anything here, because I said almost all I felt way back when when IE hashed this to death four years ago. BUT....

If one insists on handing out "guilt" in this circumstance, that guilt goes to the parents... not the girl, and not the boy [neither of them were angels, but the parents created this risk.]

How? They had a daughter, by all reports a wonderful and beautiful girl, who just happened to have a brain chemistry glitch which required her to take some serious anti-depressant medicine --- at least that is what the post-suicide reporting said. These parents, wishing for the fantasy that a daughter in this situation could just go out there and live like any other young girl [of what? a sheltered 19?] SENT HER AWAY TO SCHOOL, and away from her safety nest, while still requiring medication. One can see how some parents might have wanted to believe that she could handle it, but it's still foolish.

So our sweetheart [and I say this very affectionately and in anger over her lost life] tried. One day she decided to go to an event where she and her girlfriend would try to stretch their wings. Lots of girls were doing the same with the masculine ND jocks. She and her girlfriend "take a little chance" with a big powerful freshman and his friend and wander away. She's almost by definition flirting with this move, and the guy begins to see where this will go.

She panics. He angrily caves and walks away. He's scared for his football life. She's panicked about her own ability to cope normally. His jackass friend soon pours gasoline on the nerves of everyone.

Sometime later ... several days later if I remember it ... this, plus whatever other stresses she is feeling, make her take the worst possible "solution" to what she feels about herself.

The parents never grow up. They pursue every rumor and media opportunity like ... well, like people refusing to face the fact that it is THEMSELVES who put their daughter into a situation that she couldn't handle.

The world will never focus on the people who really screwed up here. They'll focus on the athlete ... because he's cheapshot easy to try to blame for what?.... fondling the breast of a pretty girl who walked away with him.

Yeh. He's the "criminal" alright.


I should have just kept out of this thread, but DAMM this one makes me angry ... for Prince and even more for Lizzy.

Best post I have ever seen in terms of honesty and biting insight. To add to that, not expecting that these folks were in the one per cent that didn't see race at all, in addition to everything else swirling around this sheltered Caucasian girl has engaged with an African-American young man. This may not seem like much, but lets not kid each other. What a child hears about equality, and the images of Aunt Elvira's scorn, are two different things. With kids involved in other gender extra-racial relationships it is ideal meet social stigma.

I know. My oldest is bi-racial. Handsome like Adonis, at about that age girls that had been friends for years started to get lost, and parents were downright unfriendly about it. In front of my eyes. Years later I asked my two oldest, and they told me the truth of what seemed like a confusing situation. My son had a thing for a neighborhood girl. Her parents were very prejudice, and she was a year or so older than my son.

Supposedly he "liked" this girl's cousin, but this girl, who was older would always drive them on dates. (Because she could drive). So naturally they would invite my second son to go along. To keep the first girl company? No. So it wasn't so hard to understand how later the cousin became my younger son's girlfriend. And their was no bad blood between them.

It still happens, even though there is more interracial dating, the stigma still exists, and it may have been just enough to make a bad situation, seemingly unmanageable. Doesn't matter whether the parents were good or bad. Only what caught the daughter in her fears. Remember. Fear, and dealing with fear, is not based upon rational thought. It is irrational, so the imagined can be as real and dangerous as the truth.

Edit: I hope I didn't offend anyone. I was just trying to make the point that you had two young people trying to negotiate the most delicate of social interactions, and based upon the fishbowl that College Athletics are, I am not sure either was equipped with the tools to handle the situation at the time. Not only did Prince have the normal student-athlete issues that have been a challenge for so many as we have discussed on this site, but I strongly doubt he even had the first inkling of the issues Lizzy was dealing with. So on the basis of the latter, I do not believe that Prince had the tools to effectively deal with the situation.

tussin
02-25-2014, 12:42 AM
I've been holding off saying anything here, because I said almost all I felt way back when when IE hashed this to death four years ago. BUT....

If one insists on handing out "guilt" in this circumstance, that guilt goes to the parents... not the girl, and not the boy [neither of them were angels, but the parents created this risk.]

How? They had a daughter, by all reports a wonderful and beautiful girl, who just happened to have a brain chemistry glitch which required her to take some serious anti-depressant medicine --- at least that is what the post-suicide reporting said. These parents, wishing for the fantasy that a daughter in this situation could just go out there and live like any other young girl [of what? a sheltered 19?] SENT HER AWAY TO SCHOOL, and away from her safety nest, while still requiring medication. One can see how some parents might have wanted to believe that she could handle it, but it's still foolish.

So our sweetheart [and I say this very affectionately and in anger over her lost life] tried. One day she decided to go to an event where she and her girlfriend would try to stretch their wings. Lots of girls were doing the same with the masculine ND jocks. She and her girlfriend "take a little chance" with a big powerful freshman and his friend and wander away. She's almost by definition flirting with this move, and the guy begins to see where this will go.

She panics. He angrily caves and walks away. He's scared for his football life. She's panicked about her own ability to cope normally. His jackass friend soon pours gasoline on the nerves of everyone.

Sometime later ... several days later if I remember it ... this, plus whatever other stresses she is feeling, make her take the worst possible "solution" to what she feels about herself.

The parents never grow up. They pursue every rumor and media opportunity like ... well, like people refusing to face the fact that it is THEMSELVES who put their daughter into a situation that she couldn't handle.

The world will never focus on the people who really screwed up here. They'll focus on the athlete ... because he's cheapshot easy to try to blame for what?.... fondling the breast of a pretty girl who walked away with him.

Yeh. He's the "criminal" alright.


I should have just kept out of this thread, but DAMM this one makes me angry ... for Prince and even more for Lizzy.

I strongly disagree with the bolded. As someone who has immediate family experience with the severely depressed, letting loved ones go away to school and giving them the opportunity to grow and figure out who they are independently is often the most beneficial scenario for both parties. The overwhelming majority of mental illness / depression cases are not black and white. I'd argue that it's not advisable to shelter someone at home into their adulthood just because they are perceived to have "a brain chemistry glitch." There comes a time where any parent needs to see if their little bird can actually fly... unfortunately, Lizzy couldn't.

I can only find fault in the parents reaction to the death, and even then... it's an emotional time. I don't recall all the details but of course they are going to fight for and protect both their daughter's and family's reputation and legacy, while also trying to have the most thorough understanding of the events that took place. Most everyone would forget objectivity and do the same.

Not surprising, it's the media's fault for dragging this terrible story through the mud countless times.

IrishLax
02-25-2014, 12:56 AM
I strongly disagree with the bolded. As someone who has immediate family experience with the severely depressed, letting loved ones go away to school and giving them the opportunity to grow and figure out who they are independently is often the most beneficial scenario for both parties. The overwhelming majority of mental illness / depression cases are not black and white. I'd argue that it's not advisable to shelter someone at home into their adulthood just because they are perceived to have "a brain chemistry glitch." There comes a time where any parent needs to see if their little bird can actually fly... unfortunately, Lizzy couldn't.

OMM is actually, to a degree, spot on here. You're not wrong speaking typically, I get what you're saying and I agree. But it ignores some particulars with Lizzy.

What is often ignored here is that they had already tried to send her away to college once and it was disastrous. In no way am I being cavalier or flippant when I say that it's lucky there was even an opportunity for a second time. And then they opted to send her away to SMC... mind boggling decision after how the first collegiate experience unfolded.

I cannot emphasize enough that of people I've talked to actually close to this situation, there are two groups of people. There's one that blames SMC/ND/NDSP/doctors/whoever for poorly handling her. At minimum, they think the people who were supposed to be protecting and watching over her failed and in reading the Trib articles, etc. basically feel like the lack of sympathy/support/guidance/attention is what's to blame. There is another large group of people though who have pulled no punches saying largely blame the parents and that it was idiotic to send her off to school again and that this was a "when" not "if" kind of thing.

My view on the whole thing is that it's far more a tragedy than any sort of crime. And I wish people focused more on that and why this actually happened instead of the juicy "oooo must be a coverup! he must be guilty! rape rape rape!" sensationalist, inaccurate bullshit.

Rack Em
02-25-2014, 01:00 AM
OMM is actually, to a degree, spot on here. You're not wrong speaking typically, I get what you're saying and I agree. But it ignores some particulars with Lizzy.

What is often ignored here is that they had already tried to send her away to college once and it was disastrous. In no way am I being cavalier or flippant when I say that it's lucky there was even an opportunity for a second time. And then they opted to send her away to SMC... mind boggling decision after how the first collegiate experience unfolded.

I cannot emphasize enough that of people I've talked to actually close to this situation, there are two groups of people. There's one that blames SMC/ND/NDSP/doctors/whoever for poorly handling her. At minimum, they think the people who were supposed to be protecting and watching over her failed and in reading the Trib articles, etc. basically feel like the lack of sympathy/support/guidance/attention is what's to blame. There is another large group of people though who have pulled no punches saying largely blame the parents and that it was idiotic to send her off to school again and that this was a "when" not "if" kind of thing.

My view on the whole thing is that it's far more a tragedy than any sort of crime. And I wish people focused more on that and why this actually happened instead of the juicy "oooo must be a coverup! he must be guilty! rape rape rape!" sensationalist, inaccurate bullshit.

Where did you read/hear this?

IrishLax
02-25-2014, 01:09 AM
Where did you read/hear this?

Without getting too specific, I know quite a bit from the "Seeberg" from firsthand sources. I can PM you details if you want.

She had a disastrous semester at Dayton and never, ever should've gone back off to college. It was completely irresponsible.

There is a completely untold, undiscussed half of this story that explains why Lizzy Seeberg is dead and it has basically nothing at all to do with Prince Shembo allegedly trying to get to 2nd base.

tussin
02-25-2014, 01:17 AM
OMM is actually, to a degree, spot on here. You're not wrong speaking typically, I get what you're saying and I agree. But it ignores some particulars with Lizzy.

What is often ignored here is that they had already tried to send her away to college once and it was disastrous. In no way am I being cavalier or flippant when I say that it's lucky there was even an opportunity for a second time. And then they opted to send her away to SMC... mind boggling decision after how the first collegiate experience unfolded.

I cannot emphasize enough that of people I've talked to actually close to this situation, there are two groups of people. There's one that blames SMC/ND/NDSP/doctors/whoever for poorly handling her. At minimum, they think the people who were supposed to be protecting and watching over her failed and in reading the Trib articles, etc. basically feel like the lack of sympathy/support/guidance/attention is what's to blame. There is another large group of people though who have pulled no punches saying largely blame the parents and that it was idiotic to send her off to school again and that this was a "when" not "if" kind of thing.

My view on the whole thing is that it's far more a tragedy than any sort of crime. And I wish people focused more on that and why this actually happened instead of the juicy "oooo must be a coverup! he must be guilty! rape rape rape!" sensationalist, inaccurate bullshit.

Even still, anything short of a prior suicide attempt during her first college experience (not sure this info is public) is not grounds to just give up on the college experience. I'm assuming that none of us know the details of what perceived improvements she made before her second stop at SMC. Her parents (and Lizzy too) may have genuinely felt that she was in a good position to succeed. It's not like she was an institutional nutcase; the drug she overdosed from is very commonly prescribed.

It's just a tragedy really... I don't blame anyone.

Jerry
02-25-2014, 01:37 AM
OMM is actually, to a degree, spot on here. You're not wrong speaking typically, I get what you're saying and I agree. But it ignores some particulars with Lizzy.

What is often ignored here is that they had already tried to send her away to college once and it was disastrous. In no way am I being cavalier or flippant when I say that it's lucky there was even an opportunity for a second time. And then they opted to send her away to SMC... mind boggling decision after how the first collegiate experience unfolded.

I cannot emphasize enough that of people I've talked to actually close to this situation, there are two groups of people. There's one that blames SMC/ND/NDSP/doctors/whoever for poorly handling her. At minimum, they think the people who were supposed to be protecting and watching over her failed and in reading the Trib articles, etc. basically feel like the lack of sympathy/support/guidance/attention is what's to blame. There is another large group of people though who have pulled no punches saying largely blame the parents and that it was idiotic to send her off to school again and that this was a "when" not "if" kind of thing.

My view on the whole thing is that it's far more a tragedy than any sort of crime. And I wish people focused more on that and why this actually happened instead of the juicy "oooo must be a coverup! he must be guilty! rape rape rape!" sensationalist, inaccurate bullshit.

On the tribune's website they posted a bunch of pictures of Lizzy back when the story broke. One picture was of Lizzy and her Dad at the first ND home game that year. It was dated and IIRC they actually said it was just a few days before her death in the caption. What SHOCKED me was this was AFTER the alleged incident. So your daughter was sexually assaulted, by a football player, and you come down to South Bend and take her to the game where the player is playing???

ulukinatme
02-25-2014, 03:06 AM
They printed her exact statement to police in the Chicago Tribune. That's what always got me about this case. If i tried to tell people it wasn't a rape they would roll their eyes, but there isn't as much mystery to this case as some people like to pretend.

It's not a rape in the strongest sense of the word, where sexual intercourse occurred, but rape is defined in this way:

The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.

Some people will argue that touching the breast qualifies there, and therefore rape occurred. I always understood it as forced sexual intercourse though. Bunch of forum lawyers on other sites have always been quick to throw that one out there when this case comes up.

wizards8507
02-25-2014, 08:56 AM
It's not a rape in the strongest sense of the word, where sexual intercourse occurred, but rape is defined in this way:

Some people will argue that touching the breast qualifies there, and therefore rape occurred. I always understood it as forced sexual intercourse though. Bunch of forum lawyers on other sites have always been quick to throw that one out there when this case comes up.

Dictionary definitions and legal definitions are very different things. In some states, the word "rape" never even appears in the statutes and everything is just different degrees of sexual assault. In Indiana, rape is a Class A or B felony. This situation would be, at worst, Class D sexual battery.

Sexual Battery, Class D felony: touching another person with intent to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires of oneself or someone else, when the person being touched is:

(1) Compelled to submit to the touching by force or the imminent threat of force;

OR

(2) So mentally disabled or deficient that consent to the touching cannot be given.

I haven't heard of any threats or violence so that throws out (1), and if everyone involved had their wits about them enough to say "no," then the alleged acts fail to satisfy (2) as well.

So no crime occurred and it ABSOLUTELY wasn't a rape. I'm not sure why you're trying to play devil's advocate to the point of stretching definitions to say this WAS rape, but all that does is perpetuate lies and preconceived notions that simply aren't true.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4

RDU Irish
02-25-2014, 12:50 PM
All fascinating soap opera stuff. Tragic for both parties, but it is pretty hard to pick the mentally imbalanced ones out of a line up. Even though I don't see how Shembo can really take any "blame", I imagine it is an unsettling experience none of us would want to carry for the rest of our lives like Prince will. Horrible situation for all parties and the only good you can pull from it is to promote awareness, blaming people is fruitless.


So what do y'all think of Shembo's combine results? Did he help, hurt or maintain position? Where do we see him getting drafted?

wizards8507
02-25-2014, 12:55 PM
Ugh stay off the ESPN comments section on this one if you don't want to be sick.

Bogtrotter07
02-25-2014, 01:09 PM
I strongly disagree with the bolded. As someone who has immediate family experience with the severely depressed, letting loved ones go away to school and giving them the opportunity to grow and figure out who they are independently is often the most beneficial scenario for both parties. The overwhelming majority of mental illness / depression cases are not black and white. I'd argue that it's not advisable to shelter someone at home into their adulthood just because they are perceived to have "a brain chemistry glitch." There comes a time where any parent needs to see if their little bird can actually fly... unfortunately, Lizzy couldn't.

I can only find fault in the parents reaction to the death, and even then... it's an emotional time. I don't recall all the details but of course they are going to fight for and protect both their daughter's and family's reputation and legacy, while also trying to have the most thorough understanding of the events that took place. Most everyone would forget objectivity and do the same.

Not surprising, it's the media's fault for dragging this terrible story through the mud countless times.

Is there a difference between letting a child that has been, say, a victim of emotional abuse such as being very rigidly controlled, and one that has a specific brain chemistry
problem, like but not even schizophrenia going away?

I can see how the former would be a good thing, but I can see how as Mike was arguing, the later would be a prescription for disaster. Not unless you could show me a IEP for that student, and show that she had a structure set up for her to succeed, in that particular college environment.

But, interestingly enough, the girl went to two private, Catholic colleges, where benefits from ADA do not exist. We are all familiar with a high profile recruit that chose to not attend UND for a public school where these services are provided, so the proof is in the pudding. UND, SMC, and UofD are all Catholic schools. And as good as they are for students that excel in the mainstream, they may not be good choices for those with any kind of special needs.

The whole reason they needed something they didn't have with Lizzy is minor sexual battery in Indiana requires, fondling, plus excitement leading to erection, plus threats or inability to consent. Since there was no threat ever described during the incident, the prosecutor had to assume that Lizzy could not consent, ie., that she had a mental illness or defect. It wasn't just the fondling and excitement, the prosecution needed Lizzy to demonstrate that she was mentally incapable of making the decision. In other words . . . And that is the reason her suicide ended any chance of prosecution.

illmatic630
02-25-2014, 01:15 PM
http://i62.tinypic.com/28m0086.png

is anybody going to tune in? I'm in class so I can't.

IrishLax
02-25-2014, 01:22 PM
http://i62.tinypic.com/28m0086.png

is anybody going to tune in? I'm in class so I can't.

How do you tune in?

illmatic630
02-25-2014, 01:26 PM
How do you tune in?

WGWG-LP - The Game 87.7 FM Chicago, IL - Listen Online (http://tunein.com/radio/The-Game-877-s100380/)

china423
02-25-2014, 01:27 PM
87.7 FM - The Game - Listen (http://tv.trb.com/extras/wgnam/player/listentwo.htm)

Rack Em
02-25-2014, 01:28 PM
I just turned it on. Has anything happened?

drake29
02-25-2014, 01:31 PM
Without getting too specific, I know quite a bit from the "Seeberg" from firsthand sources. I can PM you details if you want.

She had a disastrous semester at Dayton and never, ever should've gone back off to college. It was completely irresponsible.

There is a completely untold, undiscussed half of this story that explains why Lizzy Seeberg is dead and it has basically nothing at all to do with Prince Shembo allegedly trying to get to 2nd base.

Can you PM me the details please?
TIA

IrishLax
02-25-2014, 01:33 PM
Did I miss it? Sounds like I'm catching tail end.

Luckylucci
02-25-2014, 01:34 PM
Please tell me the father isn't going to be in the public's face about this and try to defame Shembo during one of his biggest interviews of his life. I really hope thats not what this is about.

Rack Em
02-25-2014, 01:34 PM
Recap from the Interview:
- ND and BK haven't reached out to him
- Family isn't blaming ND and Prince?
- They're accepting a degree of responsibility
- Issues with way things were handled by NDSP
Hosts Opinions:
- Hosts think it's unreasonable that ND didn't reach out
- Laying it hard that ND priests weren't reaching out
- Sickening that ND "lawyered up"
- Had to be hard to for Seebergs to maintain composure
- Mr. Seeberg: "We should have seen it coming, but didn't"

Rack Em
02-25-2014, 01:36 PM
It sounds like he wasn't unreasonable. But I still have a HUGE problem with people bitching about ND "lawyering up".

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN SOMEONE THREATENS A LAWSUIT?!?!?

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN REACHING OUT TO THE FAMILY CAN BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW?!?!

Commentators are completely losing their common sense because it's a chance to smear ND. The way the law is currently structured, that is the prudent thing to do: get a lawyer.

Rack Em
02-25-2014, 01:37 PM
Can you give me a full recap of what he said? I'm wondering how much the Trib has twisted quotes from them and/or if they're full of it or what. I've never heard her parents speak directly on this, only parsed quotes.

Check my post above #369

IrishLax
02-25-2014, 01:40 PM
Recap from the Interview:
- ND and BK haven't reached out to him
- Family isn't blaming ND and Prince?
- They're accepting a degree of responsibility
- Issues with way things were handled by NDSP

I'm fine with all of that, especially if the bolded is true. I'm very glad if it is and they're not just blaming everyone but themselves. I've always wondered how much Haugh and others have gone out of their way to only print the most critical quotes.

And it's fine that they have issues with NDSP, if it was my kid I'd want every allegation investigated with full focus and alacrity.

Hosts Opinions:
- Hosts think it's unreasonable that ND didn't reach out
- Laying it hard that ND priests weren't reaching out
- Sickening that ND "lawyered up"
- Had to be hard to for Seebergs to maintain composure
- Mr. Seeberg: "We should have seen it coming, but didn't"

This is some of what I did catch... wtf is with these hosts? And the Tribune in general? Lizzy Seeberg was not a student at ND. Why would ND priests need to reach out? Or BK? Huh? This isn't a Declan Sullivan situation where the University and football coach have an obligation to provide answers. Notice with Declan Sullivan how they responded, and how his parents were nothing but appreciative.

And ND "lawyered up" because the Seebergs did and came at them with demands.

Tribune has a serious axe to grind it seems.

EDIT: Just realized it's all the same guy, David Haugh. didn't know this was also his radio show. He is a known Notre Dame hater, and this is all just par for the course.

Huntr
02-25-2014, 01:50 PM
Tribune has a serious axe to grind it seems.

There's no axe to grind, they're selling newspapers and radio ads. They're not in the business of reporting or providing news - they're selling cat food.

GoIrish41
02-25-2014, 01:58 PM
There's no axe to grind, they're selling newspapers and radio ads. They're not in the business of reporting or providing news - they're selling cat food.

I worked in the news business for years, and while there is some truth to what you are saying, it isn't completely accurate. The credibility of the media outlet is the key to their ability to "sell cat food" through the sale of advertisments. If they don't have credibility, people will stop taking them seriously (see Fox News/MSNBC who have aimed for only a portion of the potential viewers available). When this happens, they lose potential dollars from advertisers who want to reach the largest audience possible. During my time in the business, I've worked with several reporters who had an axe to grind, and they were usually pulled back by cooler heads in the company. That doesn't always happen, and when it doesn't it costs the media outlet credibility and potential earnings. Any serious newspaper guards against the vindictive reporting of "news" because it is just bad business.

wizards8507
02-25-2014, 02:00 PM
She wasn't an ND student. I don't know if that makes a difference?
I think the fact that Prince Shembo WAS a student is more important than Lizzy Seeberg NOT being a student. I'm pretty sure FERPA prohibits ND administrators from discussing the discipline of a specific student.

NDohio
02-25-2014, 02:01 PM
I'm fine with all of that, especially if the bolded is true. I'm very glad if it is and they're not just blaming everyone but themselves. I've always wondered how much Haugh and others have gone out of their way to only print the most critical quotes.

And it's fine that they have issues with NDSP, if it was my kid I'd want every allegation investigated with full focus and alacrity.



This is some of what I did catch... wtf is with these hosts? And the Tribune in general? Lizzy Seeberg was not a student at ND. Why would ND priests need to reach out? Or BK? Huh? This isn't a Declan Sullivan situation where the University and football coach have an obligation to provide answers. Notice with Declan Sullivan how they responded, and how his parents were nothing but appreciative.

And ND "lawyered up" because the Seebergs did and came at them with demands.

Tribune has a serious axe to grind it seems.


Maybe we should start a thread about journalism.

Irish#1
02-25-2014, 02:08 PM
They're coming after ND, because Shembo was a student and there is probably some level of accountability by ND for its students. Not that I agree with that, but I would have to believe that is what they are basing their opinions on.

GoIrish41
02-25-2014, 02:10 PM
Anybody catch that combine? Shembo looked pretty good.

stlnd01
02-25-2014, 04:10 PM
I worked in the news business for years, and while there is some truth to what you are saying, it isn't completely accurate. The credibility of the media outlet is the key to their ability to "sell cat food" through the sale of advertisments. If they don't have credibility, people will stop taking them seriously (see Fox News/MSNBC who have aimed for only a portion of the potential viewers available). When this happens, they lose potential dollars from advertisers who want to reach the largest audience possible. During my time in the business, I've worked with several reporters who had an axe to grind, and they were usually pulled back by cooler heads in the company. That doesn't always happen, and when it doesn't it costs the media outlet credibility and potential earnings. Any serious newspaper guards against the vindictive reporting of "news" because it is just bad business.

^^^

Also: David Haugh (who if you don't know is a former South Bend Tribune columnist and taught journalism courses at St. Mary's) might have a personal beef on this issue.
He covered Notre Dame for the SB Tribune at a time - in the late 90s - when several other football player sexual assault incidents occurred, some of which emerged publicly, some of which did not. That may be coloring his coverage of Notre Dame's response to this. If so, that's unfortunate. But it's also understandable as their response was less than stellar, then and now.

Ultimately, though, unless the Seeburgs are interested in pushing this further - and from the notes on that interview it doesn't sound like they really are - this story will fade away again right quick.

rocket66
02-25-2014, 04:35 PM
This is some of what I did catch... wtf is with these hosts? And the Tribune in general? Lizzy Seeberg was not a student at ND. Why would ND priests need to reach out? Or BK? Huh? This isn't a Declan Sullivan situation where the University and football coach have an obligation to provide answers. Notice with Declan Sullivan how they responded, and how his parents were nothing but appreciative.

And ND "lawyered up" because the Seebergs did and came at them with demands.



From what I gathered, the Seeburg's are an ND family and the father is an ND grad and felt his "ND Family" turned their backs on him. I think he was more hurt than anything that his University didn't help get more information at the time. I can completely understand his point when you look at it from that perspective. I thought he actually came across very understanding and better than I expected him to be, but man, that Haugh guy is a complete douche.

IrishLax
02-25-2014, 04:47 PM
From what I gathered, the Seeburg's are an ND family and the father is an ND grad and felt his "ND Family" turned their backs on him. I think he was more hurt than anything that his University didn't help get more information at the time. I can completely understand his point when you look at it from that perspective. I thought he actually came across very understanding and better than I expected him to be, but man, that Haugh guy is a complete douche.

Good point. They absolutely 100% were an ND family, that's a fact. I can understand the feeling of betrayal in that instance.

I got to listen back to the segment, and I appreciated how he came across. To this point, I'd only read his quotes and always wondered if Haugh was parsing everything in an unflattering manner to be as inflammatory as possible. He's always been a clown with an agenda, and in this case he was given the ammunition to do his worst.

JD Irish
02-25-2014, 05:52 PM
During my time at ND, ND canceled its subscription to the Chicago Tribune and started a South Bend Tribune subscription instead. That was probably a thousand newspapers a day that they were selling that suddenly they weren't. Wonder if that factored in at all.

SaltyND24
02-25-2014, 06:58 PM
thoughts?

He (David) can eat a sack of dicks...As tragic as the situation was, all he did in that piece was to point the finger at Shembo like he accused Shembo of doing to Lizzy...This was an unfortunate situation and I believe it could've been handled a lot better...However, Shembo not talking about it until now shouldn't be a sign of guilt

PLACforever
02-25-2014, 10:08 PM
Is his Twitter handle really "the kapman"?
What
A
Toolbag

"Hey ladies, it's the Kapman, make sure you tune into my bullshit interview. Stay classy."

TheSunIsRising
02-25-2014, 10:54 PM
I think the fact that Prince Shembo WAS a student is more important than Lizzy Seeberg NOT being a student. I'm pretty sure FERPA prohibits ND administrators from discussing the discipline of a specific student.

I think you're right: that is EXACTLY what the issue was

Sherm Sticky
02-26-2014, 12:04 AM
Just finished watching his on field drills and he nailed it, especially for a guy who rarely stood up and dropped in coverage. Could be a hell of a Mike lb in the NFL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dublinirish
02-26-2014, 04:09 AM
Just finished watching his on field drills and he nailed it, especially for a guy who rarely stood up and dropped in coverage. Could be a hell of a Mike lb in the NFL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

always felt he should have been given a proper go at ILB. He was kinda wasted at ND if you think about it

Bogtrotter07
02-26-2014, 07:57 AM
always felt he should have been given a proper go at ILB. He was kinda wasted at ND if you think about it

Could he have been moved in his senior year at ND? Yes. Was it a guarantee for success? No.

His junior year, in my most humble opinion, he and Danny Spond were two huge and most unsung reasons for the success of that defense. That defense was a team for the ways those guys were put together. He developed quickly as an edge rusher. What for a while as a freshman it seemed like almost every other play he was in was a TFL or a sack!

I put the quotes in because I acknowledge my hyperbole, but I don't think it is that great. When there was a linebacker corps and a healthy d-line on the field, he was almost unstoppable. Don't forget, his senior years the defense had high hopes that crashed down early. What was there, thirteen players that lost a game or more due to injury, not including Danny Spond? That kind of decimation makes kicking an extra guy out for the opponents a bit easier.

GoldenToTheGrave
02-26-2014, 01:59 PM
always felt he should have been given a proper go at ILB. He was kinda wasted at ND if you think about it

He showed flashes of being a damn good pass rusher and set the edge really well. He just happened to have a really inconsistent career here, even if overall I think he was one of the better players on the defense. Just because he projects to another position better in the NFL doesn't mean he was out of position in college.

Irish#1
02-26-2014, 02:20 PM
Could he have been moved in his senior year at ND? Yes. Was it a guarantee for success? No.

His junior year, in my most humble opinion, he and Danny Spond were two huge and most unsung reasons for the success of that defense. That defense was a team for the ways those guys were put together. He developed quickly as an edge rusher. What for a while as a freshman it seemed like almost every other play he was in was a TFL or a sack!

I put the quotes in because I acknowledge my hyperbole, but I don't think it is that great. When there was a linebacker corps and a healthy d-line on the field, he was almost unstoppable. Don't forget, his senior years the defense had high hopes that crashed down early. What was there, thirteen players that lost a game or more due to injury, not including Danny Spond? That kind of decimation makes kicking an extra guy out for the opponents a bit easier.

I think part of his success as junior was due to being surrounded with enough quality players that teams couldn't focus on him as much.

He showed flashes of being a damn good pass rusher and set the edge really well. He just happened to have a really inconsistent career here, even if overall I think he was one of the better players on the defense. Just because he projects to another position better in the NFL doesn't mean he was out of position in college.

Maybe being inconsistent was a product of him playing out of position!?

Riddickulous
04-23-2014, 07:58 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Scout tells me prospect most impacted off field Notre Dame's Prince Shembo. After comprehensive background check, off virtually Every Board</p>&mdash; NFL_DRAFT_Bites (@NFLDraftBites) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/statuses/459036077559652352">April 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ouch.

Rack Em
04-23-2014, 08:06 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Scout tells me prospect most impacted off field Notre Dame's Prince Shembo. After comprehensive background check, off virtually Every Board</p>&mdash; NFL_DRAFT_Bites (@NFLDraftBites) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/statuses/459036077559652352">April 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ouch.

I'm calling bullshit.

Shembo is off everyone's board but Lewan (WHO COVERED UP RAPE AND THREATENED TO RAPE A RAPE VICTIM AS WELL AS GETTING INTO UNPROVOKED FIGHTS WITH STUDENTS) is a first round pick?

That is fucking bullshit.

ACamp1900
04-23-2014, 08:09 PM
I'm calling bullshit.

Shembo is off everyone's board but Lewan (WHO COVERED UP RAPE AND THREATENED TO RAPE A RAPE VICTIM AS WELL AS GETTING INTO UNPROVOKED FIGHTS WITH STUDENTS) is a first round pick?

That is fucking bullshit.

My assumption would be, sadly, these teams will over look stuff like that with first and second round talent...

yankeeND
04-23-2014, 08:11 PM
My assumption would be, sadly, these teams will over look stuff like that with first and second round talent...

Agreed, it truly is a sad world sometimes.

rtrn2glory
04-23-2014, 08:14 PM
can someone refresh my memory to what he did that would put him off all the boards??

Riddickulous
04-23-2014, 08:15 PM
can someone refresh my memory to what he did that would put him off all the boards??

Sexual assault allegations from 2010.

Rack Em
04-23-2014, 08:16 PM
can someone refresh my memory to what he did that would put him off all the boards??

Here's the link to the police report. But don't worry, Lewan's arraignment isn't a big deal though. He's just misunderstood. Fucking low-life-piece-of-shit.


http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-12/272335660-16095122.pdf

PANDFAN
04-23-2014, 08:26 PM
Sexual assault allegations from 2010.

ALLEGED TOUCHING A GIRL'S BREAST....

PANDFAN
04-23-2014, 08:31 PM
i actually have some insider info pertaining to shembo and the draft regarding the STEELERS.....a psychiatrist i work w/ has an inside connection...he stated the Steelers were high on him and actually for ND's pro day, sent Joey Porter there to specifically work out/talk w/ shembo....this was the ONLY person they sent porter to check out....also Tomlin was there who also spoke w. him.............The issue regarding the alleged sexual incident was discussed and of concern...the owner doesn't play around w/ character issues unless ur the starting qb

mark it down if he isn't selected by another team before this, he will be selected in the fifth round 173rd overall as this is one of their compensation picks.....

Sherm Sticky
04-23-2014, 08:34 PM
i actually have some insider info pertaining to shembo and the draft regarding the STEELERS.....a psychiatrist i work w/ has an inside connection...he stated the Steelers were high on him and actually for ND's pro day, sent Joey Porter there to specifically work out/talk w/ shembo....this was the ONLY person they sent porter to check out....also Tomlin was there who also spoke w. him


And what is the verdict from the steelers...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gkIrish
04-23-2014, 08:35 PM
That tweet is B.S...Guys who have done much worse get drafted all the time. Shembo will be a 6th round pick at worst.

ThePiombino
04-23-2014, 08:35 PM
i actually have some insider info pertaining to shembo and the draft regarding the STEELERS.....a psychiatrist i work w/ has an inside connection...he stated the Steelers were high on him and actually for ND's pro day, sent Joey Porter there to specifically work out/talk w/ shembo....this was the ONLY person they sent porter to check out....also Tomlin was there who also spoke w. him

I'm not a Steelers fan, but that would be AWESOME!

WestCoast
04-23-2014, 08:38 PM
a psychiatrist i work w/

are you seeing him to get over your love of pandas?

arrowryan
04-23-2014, 08:45 PM
i actually have some insider info pertaining to shembo and the draft regarding the STEELERS.....a psychiatrist i work w/ has an inside connection...he stated the Steelers were high on him and actually for ND's pro day, sent Joey Porter there to specifically work out/talk w/ shembo....this was the ONLY person they sent porter to check out....also Tomlin was there who also spoke w. him.............The issue regarding the alleged sexual incident was discussed and of concern...the owner doesn't play around w/ character issues unless ur the starting qb

mark it down if he isn't selected by another team before this, he will be selected in the fifth round 173rd overall as this is one of their compensation picks.....

I'm not a Steelers fan, but that would be AWESOME!

He was definitely the most Steeler-like play on the team last year

PANDFAN
04-23-2014, 08:45 PM
And what is the verdict from the steelers...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

to be honest i don't know...he actually told me about this following pro day but i will have to ask...he will be there tomorrow for clinic so hopefully i will have a chance to speak w. him...idk if he has had any contact w/ his person (his name is bill something..he said it but meant nothing to me...he is kind of retired but still does scouting...maybe a steelers fan might happen to know who this is

Irish Fam
04-23-2014, 08:50 PM
it wouldn't happen to be Cowher... Bill Cowher?

CanadalovesND
04-23-2014, 09:17 PM
Shembo has visited with the Patriots, Jaguars, Falcons and Packers. No visit with the Steelers yet.

PANDFAN
04-25-2014, 09:28 PM
are you seeing him to get over your love of pandas?
lol i didn't see this post...nope just work w/ him...but he gives me meds to help w/ my panda addiction
it wouldn't happen to be Cowher... Bill Cowher?
bill nunn is his name
Shembo has visited with the Patriots, Jaguars, Falcons and Packers. No visit with the Steelers yet.

i spoke w/ him yesterday, he stated prince not visiting is actually POSITIVE...i wasn't sure why that would be but he stated that Joey porter was sent ONLY for him and must have gotten the answers or he showed enough...he said the steelers keep their cards close to the vest...he pointed out that the steelers had calvin pryor in which he stated they have NO interest in him but the ravens picking 2 picks later are...so its purely done to drive up their pick if other teams especially ravens feel they might be looking at taking pryor

NewBrunswickIrish
04-26-2014, 10:13 AM
lol i didn't see this post...nope just work w/ him...but he gives me meds to help w/ my panda addiction

bill nunn is his name


i spoke w/ him yesterday, he stated prince not visiting is actually POSITIVE...i wasn't sure why that would be but he stated that Joey porter was sent ONLY for him and must have gotten the answers or he showed enough...he said the steelers keep their cards close to the vest...he pointed out that the steelers had calvin pryor in which he stated they have NO interest in him but the ravens picking 2 picks later are...so its purely done to drive up their pick if other teams especially ravens feel they might be looking at taking pryor

You can only bring in so many players for visits so if they got what they wanted then makes sense not to bring him in especially since he is likely a late round pick.

If I was a team in this deep draft I would be looking to trade down to accumulate picks. I think a few teams always bring in a player or they want just to drive up the price.

ShawneeIrish
05-10-2014, 03:12 PM
Drafted by Falcons. Shame ESPN just discussed the Seeburg incident in at least a somewhat misleading fashion for a couple mins before break without discussing anything else about Shembo. Showed a video and talked about his football ability, described as one dimensional, following the break.

gkIrish
05-10-2014, 03:15 PM
Drafted by Falcons. Shame ESPN just discussed the Seeburg incident in at least a somewhat misleading fashion for a couple mins before break without discussing anything else about Shembo. Showed a video and talked about his football ability, described as one dimensional, following the break.

That's why I watch NFL network. Mayock did nothing but praise him and talk about how all his teammates thought he was the hardest worker. No mention of the Seeburg incident.

Rack Em
05-10-2014, 03:22 PM
That's why I watch NFL network. Mayock did nothing but praise him and talk about how all his teammates thought he was the hardest worker. No mention of the Seeburg incident.

If ESPN wants to discuss off-the-field incidents, fine. There's a place for that. But then they need to get off Lewan's dick and discuss how he's a low life and discuss all the positive drug tests that just showed up, etc. They loved that Seeburg incident.

ResLife Hero
05-10-2014, 03:24 PM
First time watching the draft on NFL network, but it seems like they're much more focused on the football and less on the entertainment value. It's probably more boring, but if you want to avoid that kind of stuff, I recommend NFL network.

NCND
05-10-2014, 03:25 PM
That's why I watch NFL network. Mayock did nothing but praise him and talk about how all his teammates thought he was the hardest worker. No mention of the Seeburg incident.

+1 hate ESPN.

Rack Em
05-10-2014, 03:41 PM
First time watching the draft on NFL network, but it seems like they're much more focused on the football and less on the entertainment value. It's probably more boring, but if you want to avoid that kind of stuff, I recommend NFL network.

Yeah their coverage has been really good IMO

West Coast Domer
05-10-2014, 03:44 PM
It pains me to see Shembo getting attacked on twitter. Where was this about Winston?

BeauBenken
05-10-2014, 10:00 PM
Good luck to Prince.

irishff1014
05-10-2014, 10:01 PM
I hope shembo does well there always gave his and was a good player.

bigedefense
05-10-2014, 10:52 PM
First time watching the draft on NFL network, but it seems like they're much more focused on the football and less on the entertainment value. It's probably more boring, but if you want to avoid that kind of stuff, I recommend NFL network.

About 10 picks before Micheal Sam was picked, espn really turned up the drama on his situation. They talked for 5 minutes about him coming out before the draft & him being the first sec Defensive Player of the Year not to be drafted in the first round. Then, on of the idiots on there said he wished people would focus only on Micheal Sam the football player, not Micheal Sam the gay football player. I had to laugh because that's what they had been doing for 5 minutes straight! Then, the same guy started back talking about his not going already because of his sexual preference. Anyway, after 15 or 20 minutes of that crap, he gets drafted & espn showed him crying with his, I am guessing, boyfriend. They showed the same clip, him getting " the call" & crying while his boyfriend held him. Talk about playing it up on someone's personal expense, espn stooped to a new low in my opinion.

Heck, espn just showed the clip again & they are showing boxing!


On a side note, it is not up to me to try & dictate this, or any, mans life. Therefore, I have no problem with him playing in the NFL. I am not a homosexual, but 2 of my closest friends are. I have never wanted to see or know anything about their ultra personal stuff, nor have they with me.

Bogtrotter07
05-11-2014, 12:05 PM
Here is to the people that pan ESPN for their obvious hypocrisy, and then contribute to the ratings booms and record profits every time that network panders to the viewers salacious interests!

ResLife Hero
06-19-2014, 11:50 AM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Dimitroff on Shembo ``With that move from outside to inside, it's going to be a transition for him. But we like how he's developing so far.&quot;</p>&mdash; vaughn mcclure (@vxmcclure23) <a href="https://twitter.com/vxmcclure23/statuses/479634373151850496">June 19, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

dublinirish
06-19-2014, 12:11 PM
Falcons want Shembo to play ILB? Interesting! Always thought thats where ND should have put him

stlnd01
06-19-2014, 12:13 PM
Falcons want Shembo to play ILB? Interesting! Always thought thats where ND should have put him

He's built better for it than outside, though his biggest strength always seemed to be as an edge rusher.

Bluto
06-19-2014, 07:21 PM
He's built better for it than outside, though his biggest strength always seemed to be as an edge rusher.

Sliding him inside and Williams on the outside would've made a lot of sense last year now that I think about it. Oh well.

Rack Em
06-19-2014, 07:43 PM
Sliding him inside and Williams on the outside would've made a lot of sense last year now that I think about it. Oh well.

Yeah but you don't want your best edge rusher learning a new position that requires him to cover in space. We experimented with him at DOG for a year and it went just okay.

Bluto
06-19-2014, 07:57 PM
Yeah but you don't want your best edge rusher learning a new position that requires him to cover in space. We experimented with him at DOG for a year and it went just okay.

I get what you're saying. I just think that lineup would have been a better option in terms of athleticism and ability to cover and generating a pass rush.

Rack Em
06-19-2014, 08:02 PM
I get what you're saying. I just think that lineup would have been a better option in terms of athleticism and ability to cover and generating a pass rush.

Athletically, I agree. His numbers at the combine were better than Michael Sam's. But I'm not sure his football IQ was up to being a 3-4 ILB in Diaco's scheme. Lots of moving parts that he wasn't accustomed to. And he wasn't a great run stuffer or great in coverage, a hallmark of an above average ILB. Then again, maybe he would have adapted to that if he had enough time?

4-3 MLB? I think he could do okay depending on the scheme. Again, with enough time he could be a good one.

Unfortunately he didn't have the time at ND to devote to the ILB position. Classic case of having to go to class.

GoldenToTheGrave
06-20-2014, 12:51 AM
Athletically, I agree. His numbers at the combine were better than Michael Sam's. But I'm not sure his football IQ was up to being a 3-4 ILB in Diaco's scheme. Lots of moving parts that he wasn't accustomed to. And he wasn't a great run stuffer or great in coverage, a hallmark of an above average ILB. Then again, maybe he would have adapted to that if he had enough time?

4-3 MLB? I think he could do okay depending on the scheme. Again, with enough time he could be a good one.

Unfortunately he didn't have the time at ND to devote to the ILB position. Classic case of having to go to class.

He was very good at setting the edge though. I think that was his biggest asset at OLB, just over his pass rushing ability.

dublinirish
06-20-2014, 05:30 AM
I dont think Shembo is an NFL level pass rusher. He got swallowed up by the bigger, longer tackles in college

irishog77
06-20-2014, 12:42 PM
In an attacking, 4-3 defense, I think Shembo could be really good on the inside. I think in a multi, 3-4 defense, he could be good at several positions.

It will probably come down to coaching/scheme for him.

KPENN
08-02-2014, 02:01 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Nolan called Shembo a &quot;pleasant surprise&quot;</p>&mdash; vaughn mcclure (@vxmcclure23) <a href="https://twitter.com/vxmcclure23/statuses/495591745414266880">August 2, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Nolan said Prince Shembo has the best physical stature of anybody on the roster to play the inside linebacker position.</p>&mdash; vaughn mcclure (@vxmcclure23) <a href="https://twitter.com/vxmcclure23/statuses/495612503817457666">August 2, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Old Man Mike
08-02-2014, 03:26 PM
There has never been any doubt about Prince's "physical stature" on any grounds --- Kelly said that despite Prince's good nature and ferocious team loyalty, he thought that a lot of the players were afraid of him. One effing stud......

Bogtrotter07
08-02-2014, 03:51 PM
There has never been any doubt about Prince's "physical stature" on any grounds --- Kelly said that despite Prince's good nature and ferocious team loyalty, he thought that a lot of the players were afraid of him. One effing stud......

This post makes me want to laugh . . .

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gX3wGWHRlXQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

PLACforever
08-09-2014, 12:19 AM
Shembo is playing like someone stole his bike seat.

Bluto
08-09-2014, 01:59 AM
Shembo at inside linebacker and Ishaq at dog or cat or whatever would have been a winning combo the more I think about it. Oh well.

Bogtrotter07
08-09-2014, 10:06 AM
Shembo at inside linebacker and Ishaq at dog or cat or whatever would have been a winning combo the more I think about it. Oh well.

The logic and point of this post is flawless! I think there have been a few development issues on defense at ND, even more than Ishaq not at defensive end.

Manti got up to nearly 270 his junior year, a year in which he had lingering injuries and was less effective than his sophomore and senior seasons.

The whole defensive line class of '11.

Louis Nix, now that the money is on the line, he will probably be great; but how long did it take him to develop?

Entire defensive backfield. Don't look now but we have had a lot of talent drafted out of our defensive backfield, with fairly mixed results at ND. Even though Harrison Smith was squandered by Weis, that same kind of thing has continued a bit to present. Maybe it was just the scheme . . .

If Sheldon Day is off the hook this year, I will know that there is something to this.

Romeo Okwara. If he makes a good SDE this year we know he was wasted.

Kona Schwenke. Hope he makes it big at KC. Because his career was wasted at ND. No kid had a bigger heart or worked harder and was squandered more due to circumstances or coaching.

What took Jarron Jones so long?

Talent in general that never produced, Justin Utupo, Anthony Rasaba, etc.

Other than Mathias Farley, most of the "developed" players were moved to or on the offensive side of the ball; Troy Niklas, CJ Prosise, etc.

What if John Turner turns out to be a stud?

What if any of the DT's, Riggs, Crawford, or linebackers under 6'4" like Nyles Morgan, etc., turn out to be great?

There are actually more. Maybe I am too picky. But when you look at this dissipated potential energy, don't you have to ask yourself what could have been? With this just rechanneled, do you move your team to the championship level?

Truth be told, there was a ton more of the same under the previous three coaching staffs.

I am hoping with LaFleur, Hiestand, Elston and BVG it further diminishes.

Sherm Sticky
08-09-2014, 09:22 PM
The logic and point of this post is flawless! I think there have been a few development issues on defense at ND, even more than Ishaq not at defensive end.



Manti got up to nearly 270 his junior year, a year in which he had lingering injuries and was less effective than his sophomore and senior seasons.



The whole defensive line class of '11.



Louis Nix, now that the money is on the line, he will probably be great; but how long did it take him to develop?



Entire defensive backfield. Don't look now but we have had a lot of talent drafted out of our defensive backfield, with fairly mixed results at ND. Even though Harrison Smith was squandered by Weis, that same kind of thing has continued a bit to present. Maybe it was just the scheme . . .



If Sheldon Day is off the hook this year, I will know that there is something to this.



Romeo Okwara. If he makes a good SDE this year we know he was wasted.



Kona Schwenke. Hope he makes it big at KC. Because his career was wasted at ND. No kid had a bigger heart or worked harder and was squandered more due to circumstances or coaching.



What took Jarron Jones so long?



Talent in general that never produced, Justin Utupo, Anthony Rasaba, etc.



Other than Mathias Farley, most of the "developed" players were moved to or on the offensive side of the ball; Troy Niklas, CJ Prosise, etc.



What if John Turner turns out to be a stud?



What if any of the DT's, Riggs, Crawford, or linebackers under 6'4" like Nyles Morgan, etc., turn out to be great?



There are actually more. Maybe I am too picky. But when you look at this dissipated potential energy, don't you have to ask yourself what could have been? With this just rechanneled, do you move your team to the championship level?



Truth be told, there was a ton more of the same under the previous three coaching staffs.



I am hoping with LaFleur, Hiestand, Elston and BVG it further diminishes.


I love you bogs, but you are crazy.

Remember Springman, Bjax and Collinsworth were all also moved from offense to defense.

Bogtrotter07
08-09-2014, 09:57 PM
I love you bogs, but you are crazy.

Remember Springman, Bjax and Collinsworth were all also moved from offense to defense.

What does that have to do with anything I was talking about? Who on defense exceeded all expectations? Harrison Smith doesn't count. Neither does Manti. Nor does Springman because his career ended early. Who? Not Nix. Not Tuitt. Not Lynch. So on and so forth. The guys that exceeded expectations were moved off of defense. BJax, Tuitt, Nix, etc., didn't have the best last season at ND. Their careers were not progressive.

Sherm Sticky
08-09-2014, 10:02 PM
What does that have to do with anything I was talking about? Who on defense exceeded all expectations? Harrison Smith doesn't count. Neither does Manti. Nor does Springman because his career ended early. Who? Not Nix. Not Tuitt. Not Lynch. So on and so forth. The guys that exceeded expectations were moved off of defense. BJax, Tuitt, Nix, etc., didn't have the best last season at ND. Their careers were not progressive.


Bjax got drafted, I think he exceeded expectations. How about K Russel he was moved from offense to defense. I think he has exceeded expectations.

What about KLM he progresses during his 3 years under the staff.

Also why doesn't Harrison Smith count? In two years with this staff he went from zero to hero

STLDomer
08-09-2014, 10:08 PM
The shots at Diaco here have become overboard IMO. This isn't the best example but it's everywhere and just felt it needed to be said.

BeauBenken
08-09-2014, 10:32 PM
What took Jarron Jones so long? lol This will be his third year here. And he is eligible to play 3 more (including this year).

Sherm Sticky
08-09-2014, 10:39 PM
What took Jarron Jones so long? lol This will be his third year here. And he is eligible to play 3 more (including this year).


Beau not sure if this is a joke or not.

BeauBenken
08-09-2014, 10:45 PM
Beau not sure if this is a joke or not.

Sorry. Been drinking. Am I off a year?

Redshirted first year and played last year (his second year), no?

Meaning he has only burned 1 year of his eligibility.

Am I seriously that much more lit than I thought? Then again, it's likely that I'm just that bad with math/years.

T Town Tommy
08-09-2014, 10:46 PM
Sorry. Been drinking. Am I off a year?

Redshirted first year and played last year, no?

Bama math Beau... Bama math.

Sherm Sticky
08-09-2014, 10:49 PM
Sorry. Been drinking. Am I off a year?

Redshirted first year and played last year, no?


No I meant you said what took JONES So long. Wasn't sure if you were joking or not.

But, to answer the question anyway it's a simple answer. He is from upstate New York. So his high school competition was the worst of any player on the team. Thus it took him a year and a half to get up to speed.

Not to mention in high school he was not a full time dlinemen, he split time between oline and dline.

BeauBenken
08-09-2014, 10:52 PM
No I meant you said what took JONES So long. Wasn't sure if you were joking or not.

But, to answer the question anyway it's a simple answer. He is from upstate New York. So his high school competition was the worst of any player on the team. Thus it took him a year and a half to get up to speed.

Not to mention in high school he was not a full time dlinemen, he split time between oline and dline.

No. lol I was mocking Bogs post. He said, "What took Jarron Jones so long?" I'm just saying it really didn't take him that long considering he can play two more years after this one.

Sherm Sticky
08-09-2014, 10:54 PM
No. lol I was mocking Bogs post. He said, "What took Jarron Jones so long?" I'm just saying it really didn't take him that long considering he can play two more years after this one.


Lol that's what I thought. Lol

Bogtrotter07
08-10-2014, 11:53 AM
Bjax got drafted, I think he exceeded expectations. How about K Russel he was moved from offense to defense. I think he has exceeded expectations.

What about KLM he progresses during his 3 years under the staff.

Also why doesn't Harrison Smith count? In two years with this staff he went from zero to hero

BJax was a rising star who played better with an injured shoulder junior year than senior year. Pardon me, but I got so tired of people (some ardent Diaco supporters) who dogged BJax all season long last year. You know what I am talking about. AND, pre-season the consensus was that he would do much higher than he did.

KR was moved to defense in spite of the DC from everything I have heard. Bob Diaco was a Jalen Brown guy, which fits, because JB is so long. If you remember, Cam got moved to corner out of desperation, because ND couldn't find any 6'2" corners that wanted to play for the Irish. Then Brown started moving up the charts as Lo Wood got injured (too small for the position.)

KLM is great. Compared to what his expectations were when he signed at 220, he far outstripped all predictions. One.

Harrison Smith came in at 6'2", over two hundred pounds, showing a 4.37 forty, (which was not accurate). He had people saying that he came in with NFL tools. Smart people saw what he could be then. He was one of the fastest guys on the team. Tenuta played him at linebacker when he didn't have that position in him, and also put much slower guys behind him. Kelly came in saying he was a safety, and that is all that he would play. So Kelly made the move from day one, and the move just unfucked the abortion that Weis' defense was.

We can go back and forth about this. Diaco was a good enough coordinator to win the Broyles award. That is saying something. I would put him up there with Mattison, just behind Alverez on the list at ND. On the other hand BVG has already won the Broyles award twice. And BD sure had the horses that year. ('12 makes all the stats over the four years sure look better.) Compare BD's run at ND to BVG's at Georgia.

But that isn't the point. I believe BD to be enough of an elitist and a snob that he rubs me the wrong way. I just don't think that those are characteristics that need to be amplified at ND with the contempt, haters already feel. And I think the evaluation instincts and the blue-collar everyman feel of BVG has already paid dividends on the recruiting trail.

Finally, Manti doesn't count because he was a top 5 recruit, and he had a depressed junior year, where more that idle rumors put his weight in the 265 to 270 range. He was stronger but less mobile. And unless he turned that around, he wouldn't have had the senior year he did.

Springman didn't finish his career, but he was a solid contributor when not injured. But not the kind of success I was talking about.

I think Collinsworth was moved out of necessity. What did we have, like one healthy safety back then, so I cannot attribute his move to genius vision or player development, and I don't thing he has shown the kind of ceiling that would equate to Troy Niklas being drafted in the second round after one arguably average season. That was genius.

We should wait till after the season. If IWilliams has the year with Romeo. If Sheldon Day dominates in his three technique, and if Jarron Jones masters the middle, this season we can have a conversation. If tons of freshman contribute and don't make tons of freshmen mistakes we can continue the conversation. We will see.

Sherm Sticky
08-10-2014, 12:16 PM
BJax was a rising star who played better with an injured shoulder junior year than senior year. Pardon me, but I got so tired of people (some ardent Diaco supporters) who dogged BJax all season long last year. You know what I am talking about. AND, pre-season the consensus was that he would do much higher than he did.



KR was moved to defense in spite of the DC from everything I have heard. Bob Diaco was a Jalen Brown guy, which fits, because JB is so long. If you remember, Cam got moved to corner out of desperation, because ND couldn't find any 6'2" corners that wanted to play for the Irish. Then Brown started moving up the charts as Lo Wood got injured (too small for the position.)



KLM is great. Compared to what his expectations were when he signed at 220, he far outstripped all predictions. One.



Harrison Smith came in at 6'2", over two hundred pounds, showing a 4.37 forty, (which was not accurate). He had people saying that he came in with NFL tools. Smart people saw what he could be then. He was one of the fastest guys on the team. Tenuta played him at linebacker when he didn't have that position in him, and also put much slower guys behind him. Kelly came in saying he was a safety, and that is all that he would play. So Kelly made the move from day one, and the move just unfucked the abortion that Weis' defense was.



We can go back and forth about this. Diaco was a good enough coordinator to win the Broyles award. That is saying something. I would put him up there with Mattison, just behind Alverez on the list at ND. On the other hand BVG has already won the Broyles award twice. And BD sure had the horses that year. ('12 makes all the stats over the four years sure look better.) Compare BD's run at ND to BVG's at Georgia.



But that isn't the point. I believe BD to be enough of an elitist and a snob that he rubs me the wrong way. I just don't think that those are characteristics that need to be amplified at ND with the contempt, haters already feel. And I think the evaluation instincts and the blue-collar everyman feel of BVG has already paid dividends on the recruiting trail.



Finally, Manti doesn't count because he was a top 5 recruit, and he had a depressed junior year, where more that idle rumors put his weight in the 265 to 270 range. He was stronger but less mobile. And unless he turned that around, he wouldn't have had the senior year he did.



Springman didn't finish his career, but he was a solid contributor when not injured. But not the kind of success I was talking about.



I think Collinsworth was moved out of necessity. What did we have, like one healthy safety back then, so I cannot attribute his move to genius vision or player development, and I don't thing he has shown the kind of ceiling that would equate to Troy Niklas being drafted in the second round after one arguably average season. That was genius.



We should wait till after the season. If IWilliams has the year with Romeo. If Sheldon Day dominates in his three technique, and if Jarron Jones masters the middle, this season we can have a conversation. If tons of freshman contribute and don't make tons of freshmen mistakes we can continue the conversation. We will see.


I don't want to argue this anymore. But I will point out that Bjax was a consensus 3 star WR. He ended up being a 6th round corner after 3 years at the position. Apperantly there was some development there.

You act as if Harrison Smith was a 5 star recruit. When in reality he was a low 4 star.

kmoose
08-10-2014, 12:35 PM
Finally, Manti doesn't count because he was a top 5 recruit, and he had a depressed junior year, where more that idle rumors put his weight in the 265 to 270 range. He was stronger but less mobile. And unless he turned that around, he wouldn't have had the senior year he did.



Manti had the senior year he had because the Defensive Line play finally prohibited teams from releasing a lineman to block him. Once he was free to roam the field, like middle linebackers are supposed to be, he played lights out.

Ironman8
08-10-2014, 01:43 PM
Zeke Motta was drafted, and Dan Fox has a great chance to make the Giants.

I think both of those guys were way better under Diaco than I expected them to be at their respective positions. I always thought Motta would be a good OLB and that Fox wasn't anything special. Both played very well for the Irish late in their career IMO.

The talent and fits are only improving on D as well. I honestly like Schmidt at MIKE in BVG's scheme over a Fox or Carlo, and Morgan could be great there. Hope to see something out of Deeb and Randolph - time will tell.

Redfield and Luke look like young studs in the secondary, and Collinsworth looks a lot better this summer now that he is fully recovered.

Let's hope Ishaq and Owkara / Trumbetti can get after the passer from the edge consistently. If we can do that and be pretty good against the run, I think our D can be better than last year honestly.

Bogtrotter07
08-10-2014, 01:55 PM
Zeke Motta was drafted, and Dan Fox has a great chance to make the Giants.

I think both of those guys were way better under Diaco than I expected them to be at their respective positions. I always thought Motta would be a good OLB and that Fox wasn't anything special. Both played very well for the Irish late in their career IMO.

The talent and fits are only improving on D as well. I honestly like Schmidt at MIKE in BVG's scheme over a Fox or Carlo, and Morgan could be great there. Hope to see something out of Deeb and Randolph - time will tell.

Redfield and Luke look like young studs in the secondary, and Collinsworth looks a lot better this summer now that he is fully recovered.

Let's hope Ishaq and Owkara / Trumbetti can get after the passer from the edge consistently. If we can do that and be pretty good against the run, I think our D can be better than last year honestly.


Agreed about Fox, and his showing at the Giants but that was a two edged sword of a conversation. Turned it could be starting LB in the NFL, but not a clear starter in college?

Redfield is another puzzlement to me. I have heard a few players that have expressed such feelings of inadequacy as Redfield did this week about his freshman year. And I have heard others ponder why exceptional freshmen cannot just plug in here (in the recent past) at ND.


And the "fits" may be a big part of it. Who determines the fits? If it is all just shaping the talent into a 3-4, then that is one thing. But I remember hearing everyone (almost) saying the big advantage of the 3-4 is that it was friendlier if you didn't have the d-line talent. Maybe that was just naiveté; or maybe that was not realizing that we were going to 2 gap 60% of the time.

How is Kappy doing this year?

Bogtrotter07
08-10-2014, 01:58 PM
Manti had the senior year he had because the Defensive Line play finally prohibited teams from releasing a lineman to block him. Once he was free to roam the field, like middle linebackers are supposed to be, he played lights out.

Partly to mostly. But he did play faster when he dropped the 15 lbs. He did drop the fifteen pounds, and he also became the best anticipatory player I have ever seen. He credits BD for some of that, but Manti did the work. We all have seen Manti's times weren't what we thought they would be, can you imagine what they really were his Junior year?

NDCrusader
08-10-2014, 01:59 PM
Louis Nix, now that the money is on the line, he will probably be great; but how long did it take him to develop?

.


He has the easiest job in the NFL since The Fridge. Playing between Watt and Clowney? Sign me up.

.

dublinirish
08-13-2014, 09:55 AM
You guys see episode 2 of Hard Knocks? Prince is looking like a baller out there. Great to see him flourishing, makes me mad we put up with watching Fox and Calabrese all those years when Prince could have been there running sideline to sideline :(

Riddickulous
10-06-2014, 12:30 AM
Racked up 14 total tackles today for the Falcons.

I had no idea he was seeing so much PT.

Henges24
10-06-2014, 12:33 AM
I always liked Prince at ND. Thought he under achieved though. I always thought he would make a good NFL linebacker someday. He has the athleticism and size.

dublinirish
10-06-2014, 03:57 AM
I always liked Prince at ND. Thought he under achieved though. I always thought he would make a good NFL linebacker someday. He has the athleticism and size.

if only he could have played MLB from the start :/

irishff1014
05-29-2015, 05:42 PM
Apparently facing felony animal cruelty charges.

CanadalovesND
05-29-2015, 06:44 PM
Atlanta Falcons player Prince Shembo accused of killing dog | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/falcons-player-accused-of-killing-ex-girlfriends-d/nmQ9y/)

Had to figure this was coming next...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Falcons have waived linebacker Prince Shembo.</p>&mdash; Atlanta Falcons (@AtlantaFalcons) <a href="https://twitter.com/AtlantaFalcons/status/604399864105947136">May 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Irish YJ
05-29-2015, 10:17 PM
If convicted, can we remove "ND Signee" and change to pathetic douche bag

dublinirish
08-13-2015, 05:46 AM
Felony charges against former Falcons dog-killer Prince Shembo dropped | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/12/felony-charges-against-former-falcons-dog-killer-prince-shembo-dropped/)

BGIF
08-13-2015, 06:48 AM
Because a 5-pound dog bit a 254-pound former NFL linebacker, he was able to get by on misdemeanor charges for killing it.

According to D. Orlando Ledbetter of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, felony charges against former Falcons linebacker Prince Shembo were dropped after he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor and paid a $1,000 fine.

...

Irish Insanity
08-13-2015, 07:31 AM
#Murica

Bogtrotter07
08-13-2015, 07:49 AM
Because a 5-pound dog bit a 254-pound former NFL linebacker, he was able to get by on misdemeanor charges for killing it.

According to D. Orlando Ledbetter of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, felony charges against former Falcons linebacker Prince Shembo were dropped after he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor and paid a $1,000 fine.

...

#Murica

You can tell it is "Murica" because linebacker that kicks and kills dog was sentenced, fined and still may face league sanctions if he resumes his career. However, a football player that breaks a quarterback's jaw with a sucker-punch is what? Not investigated for criminal charges, but traded and signed by another team in days, with what league repercussions?

I guess the thing that gets me is the way every article about Prince and the former dog, has a mention of "the sexual assault incident."

I do not condone breast fondling (without permission), making out with the mentally ill, being a bastard, or kicking dogs, but I do think this is a sad and twisted situation, bordering on the comical!

* I love you guys; my entire post is about the situation not your comments!

Old Man Mike
08-13-2015, 09:38 AM
It would be REALLY nice if this circus ended and the board would not have to be inflicted to any more non-productive and unpleasant talk about Shembo. I have to "unsubscribe" to threads like this; completely negative to my quality-of-life experience on IE. So, I will ... and Happy Trails to all who like this sort of stuff.

Irish YJ
08-13-2015, 09:41 AM
You can tell it is "Murica" because linebacker that kicks and kills dog was sentenced, fined and still may face league sanctions if he resumes his career. However, a football player that breaks a quarterback's jaw with a sucker-punch is what? Not investigated for criminal charges, but traded and signed by another team in days, with what league repercussions?

I guess the thing that gets me is the way every article about Prince and the former dog, has a mention of "the sexual assault incident."

I do not condone breast fondling (without permission), making out with the mentally ill, being a bastard, or kicking dogs, but I do think this is a sad and twisted situation, bordering on the comical!

* I love you guys; my entire post is about the situation not your comments!

In defense of the 3rd string LB that punched Geno... Word has it that Geno actually threw the first punch, but it got intercepted.

kmoose
08-13-2015, 09:44 AM
You can tell it is "Murica" because linebacker that kicks and kills dog was sentenced, fined and still may face league sanctions if he resumes his career. However, a football player that breaks a quarterback's jaw with a sucker-punch is what? Not investigated for criminal charges, but traded and signed by another team in days, with what league repercussions?

I guess the thing that gets me is the way every article about Prince and the former dog, has a mention of "the sexual assault incident."

I do not condone breast fondling (without permission), making out with the mentally ill, being a bastard, or kicking dogs, but I do think this is a sad and twisted situation, bordering on the comical!

* I love you guys; my entire post is about the situation not your comments!

Its been pretty well reported that the punch was not a "sucker punch", but that the two were in each other's face when the punch was thrown, with Geno Smith sticking his finger in the other guy's face.

Irish#1
08-13-2015, 09:53 AM
In defense of the 3rd string LB that punched Geno... Word has it that Geno actually threw the first punch, but it got intercepted.

Its been pretty well reported that the punch was not a "sucker punch", but that the two were in each other's face when the punch was thrown, with Geno Smith sticking his finger in the other guy's face.

Also hearing that many Jets players were happy that it happened. Apparently Geno isn't that well liked.

dublinirish
08-13-2015, 09:57 AM
Also hearing that many Jets players were happy that it happened. Apparently Geno isn't that well liked.

the guy has been a tool for a long time. WTF are they even doing with him on the team anyways, as soon as he's healthy they should cut him

gkIrish
08-29-2016, 09:41 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NFL suspended former Notre Dame LB and now free agent Prince Shembo for the first two weeks of this season, per source.</p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/770388847507214336">August 29, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

woolybug25
08-29-2016, 09:50 PM
He's the shame of our university.