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View Full Version : Basbeall Offseason Hot Stove thread...


daytonirish
12-04-2007, 08:25 PM
ESPN Peter Gammons reporting that the Tigers will get 3B Miquel Cabrera and LHP Dontrelle Willis for LHP Andrew Miller, C Mike Rabelo, OF Cameron Maybin and 3 other minor leaguers. Looks like someone other than the Sox or Yankees can make a big trade.

ACamp1900
12-04-2007, 08:56 PM
opps I crapped my pants...

MAN!! that's a blockbuster if true...

ACamp1900
12-04-2007, 09:11 PM
Wow... it's real... great pick up by both sides there...

another thing that stuck out in the daily winter meeting report for me is this:

David Eckstien has said he would be willing to play second base next year for the 'right team'... IF the Angels trade Howie Kendirck for a big bat (Miguel T. or possibly Kahlil Greene) then I'm calling it RIGHT NOW!!!! The X factor is back with the Angels as our second baseman next year...

ACamp1900
12-04-2007, 09:15 PM
Okay, it's official I'm ready for baseball season... let the countdown begin!!!!

daytonirish
12-04-2007, 09:15 PM
They say all that needsto be done is the physicals and it should be finalized tonite. :bbanana::banana: :cbanana: :rbanana: :wbanana: :gbanana: :pbanana: :jump: :thewave: :allhail:

daytonirish
12-04-2007, 09:17 PM
In case you can't guess. I'm a Detroit fan in pro sports. And I kinda like this trade.

Newc
12-05-2007, 09:53 AM
That is an absolutely huge trade for the Tigers. That lineup is going to be insanely dangerous, especially when Cabrera is hitting in the five spot, and I think most teams would take Dontrelle as their #4 or #5 in the rotation.

With a manager like Leyland, both Cabrera and Willis will benefit greatly and probably only get better. The Tigers are going to be VERY dangerous next year.

Newc
12-05-2007, 09:54 AM
Acamp, what do you think your boys are gonna do now? Do they go after Inge or try to deal for Rolen or do you just sit tight and stay with Howie playing third?

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 10:09 AM
Newc, I know the Sox are the front runners for Santana, but they are saying that Min. is going to hold out for both Lester and Ellsbury and that they will proably get them both among others in the end. What's your take on this?

Sureal
12-05-2007, 10:14 AM
WHAT??? Ellsbury should be an untouchable. If Theo jacks that up then that will go down as one of the many idiotic Red Sox moves. YOU DON'T TRADE SOMEONE LIKE JACOBY...

Newc
12-05-2007, 10:21 AM
Pull the trigger. Pitching ALWAYS trumps position players. Jacoby showed some good talent last year, but here is the 64 thousand dollar question: If the Sox needed to, who do you think they could replace easier, a guy like Santana or a guy like Jacoby. The answer is a resounding Jacoby. Trust me, I love the kid just as much as those who say don't move him at all, but the trust of the matter is, when a guy like Santana comes up on the block, you make the moves to get him. Now, with that being said, I think the pieces of the trade is greatly changed. If the Twins want both Lester and Jacoby they can have them, but in turn they can only get Lowery or Masterson, not both.

To be honest, if I were Theo I would offer Lester, Ellsbury and Masterson right now, with the addition of Ryan if the Twins were willing to make the deal right away with the 72 hour negotiation period.

Coco is more than capable of roaming centerfield, and with Santana in the rotation, the rest of the lineup will be able to do more than enough damage offensively that Coco will not be as stressed out and will most likely perform better. Coco is heads and shoulders above Jacoby defensively and I don't think that he is so far behind him offensively that the inclusion of Jacoby is a deal breaker.

Newc
12-05-2007, 10:22 AM
Let the flaming being!!

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 10:38 AM
Well I would be interested to see what spinner has to say. I'm still in shock that my Tigers went out and made this trade. Nobody even mentioned them, but the way things look now is that Illitch is starting to have the Tigers operate like he does the Red Wings. Dude has the money and he's showing that he's willing to spend it. How long are they in Nashville? Now that we have Inge left as trade bait, I'm wondering what else my Tigers have in store for me.

Newc
12-05-2007, 10:58 AM
Meetings run all this week. Most of the "Big" deals will get done during these meetings, but there are always tricklers through spring training, though it is rare since baseball really likes to take a break over the winter holidays. You really don't hear of anything major following the weeks after the winter meetings.

Inge leaves some interesting moves left to be made for sure. I can't see the Tigers holding on to him just as a utility player, he is way too good for that. I really won't be too surprised to see him go to the Angels or maybe even the Phillies. He is a very very good defensive third baseman and while he has struggled at the plate at times, he is still young and I think he has the ability to be a solid player all around. I really wanted him here in Boston if the Sox weren't able to lock down Lowell, becuase that corner in Fenway can be tricky if you don't have a good glove down there and I think we would be able to hit .280-.310 while playing pepper with the green monster. Therefore I really think the Phillies would be interested in making a move for him with that small park as well as the Angels, with Mike being a fundamentals type coach.

The Tigers are looking really really good this offseason and will be able to get even better with moving Inge. Thats the way a team should be run.

Sureal
12-05-2007, 10:59 AM
Goodness Newc.

The kid is one of my top three favorites Red Sox players. I can't stand Crisp. The kid bat is not dependable. Plus how old is Ellsbury? Get rid of Crisp. But if it has to be...

NOOOO!!! Ellsbury, Bucholz should be untouchables. I'm stubborn and I don't care.:geeza2:


I'll think about it. It pains me to think of any of those kids in a different uniform...

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 11:17 AM
So is ACamp an Angels fan.? Maybe my Tigers would be willing to talk about possible trade for Inge. But first I need to check out the roster and figure out if they have anyone of value to trade for. :wink:

Sureal
12-05-2007, 11:24 AM
The Sox need a backup catcher as well as a little more depth on the bench...

Inge may be a little too pricy for a bench player especially if we get Santana.

onenybrother
12-05-2007, 11:25 AM
The Tigers made a great pickupsn this off season. Hope my Met's can do the same.

Newc
12-05-2007, 11:28 AM
Well I would be interested to see what spinner has to say. I'm still in shock that my Tigers went out and made this trade. Nobody even mentioned them, but the way things look now is that Illitch is starting to have the Tigers operate like he does the Red Wings. Dude has the money and he's showing that he's willing to spend it. How long are they in Nashville? Now that we have Inge left as trade bait, I'm wondering what else my Tigers have in store for me.

Dayton, I am finally happy to see someone with this kind of sentiment that is not a Sox or Yanks fan. In the past I used to have a problem with the dollar disperity in the MLB. Sure I've always been a fan of the Sox, who have been among the biggest spenders in the game, and as of the past 5 years only second to the Yanks. However, over the past couple years I have really become interested in the business behind baseball (I can thank Billy Beene and Moneyball for that).

Just some things to think about:

This past year, each team earned 25 million solely from the medium of internet (MLBtv, mlb.com, ect.)
The low level teams (Tampa, Florida, Pitt) recieved 30 million from the luxury tax.
Revenue Sharing is expected to be 30 million per team this year.
Therefore, without even considering each individuals team revenue from tickets, tv contracts, merchandise, ect. The "low money" market teams have generated 85 million in revenue. Now I understand that all of that is not pure profit, I am sure it is quite expensive to run and upkeep a stadium, especially in Pittsburgh where they have a new one, however, when you look at team salaries it is rediculous that they spend so little.
Tampa Bay Rays - 27 Million
Pittsburgh Pirates - 29 Million
Florida Marlins - 33 Million

These are the teams that are considered weak, but to be honest its their own damn fault. Kevin Kennedy (Sox fans will remember him as the skipper who led us to that '95 East Championship) was talking about how the Marlins owners required that the GM keep the team salary at or below 30 million.

Therefore, if fans want to bitch and moan about how the Red Sox and Yankees pay a billion dollars for their teams, maybe you should stop being jealous of our success and our desire to win and rather blame your own team's owners for being greedy and running your team solely to line their pockets. And trust me, I am as capatalistic as anyone and have no problem at all with trying to make a profit, but fans need to make a decision, root for a team that spends the money in an attempt to win or root for a team that pays the bare minimum in order to turn a large profit.

Funny thing is, with all the money that the Sox and Yanks spend I am sure their owners don't go without....funny thing how winning just brings in more and more money. Maybe if the owners were willing to pay up and take just a small salary for a couple of years, they could establish a quality team which would in turn wake up their fan base, bring more people to games, sell more jerseys and caps and ultimately bring the profits way up.

Pro sports are becoming increasingly profitable these days and I don't understand how teams can't capitalize on that. We live in a material world and we are material girls....or boys.

onenybrother
12-05-2007, 11:32 AM
Dayton, I am finally happy to see someone with this kind of sentiment that is not a Sox or Yanks fan. In the past I used to have a problem with the dollar disperity in the MLB. Sure I've always been a fan of the Sox, who have been among the biggest spenders in the game, and as of the past 5 years only second to the Yanks. However, over the past couple years I have really become interested in the business behind baseball (I can thank Billy Beene and Moneyball for that).

Just some things to think about:

This past year, each team earned 25 million solely from the medium of internet (MLBtv, mlb.com, ect.)
The low level teams (Tampa, Florida, Pitt) recieved 30 million from the luxury tax.
Revenue Sharing is expected to be 30 million per team this year.
Therefore, without even considering each individuals team revenue from tickets, tv contracts, merchandise, ect. The "low money" market teams have generated 85 million in revenue. Now I understand that all of that is not pure profit, I am sure it is quite expensive to run and upkeep a stadium, especially in Pittsburgh where they have a new one, however, when you look at team salaries it is rediculous that they spend so little.
Tampa Bay Rays - 27 Million
Pittsburgh Pirates - 29 Million
Florida Marlins - 33 Million

These are the teams that are considered weak, but to be honest its their own damn fault. Kevin Kennedy (Sox fans will remember him as the skipper who led us to that '95 East Championship) was talking about how the Marlins owners required that the GM keep the team salary at or below 30 million.

Therefore, if fans want to bitch and moan about how the Red Sox and Yankees pay a billion dollars for their teams, maybe you should stop being jealous of our success and our desire to win and rather blame your own team's owners for being greedy and running your team solely to line their pockets. And trust me, I am as capatalistic as anyone and have no problem at all with trying to make a profit, but fans need to make a decision, root for a team that spends the money in an attempt to win or root for a team that pays the bare minimum in order to turn a large profit.

Funny thing is, with all the money that the Sox and Yanks spend I am sure their owners don't go without....funny thing how winning just brings in more and more money. Maybe if the owners were willing to pay up and take just a small salary for a couple of years, they could establish a quality team which would in turn wake up their fan base, bring more people to games, sell more jerseys and caps and ultimately bring the profits way up.

Pro sports are becoming increasingly profitable these days and I don't understand how teams can't capitalize on that. We live in a material world and we are material girls....or boys.


Great Post. Put my Mets as one of the team that willing to spend the dough. But the problem is spending it wisely. But your right the Marlins , Royals and Pirates of the world are a joke.

Newc
12-05-2007, 11:32 AM
Goodness Newc.

The kid is one of my top three favorites Red Sox players. I can't stand Crisp. The kid bat is not dependable. Plus how old is Ellsbury? Get rid of Crisp. But if it has to be...

NOOOO!!! Ellsbury, Bucholz should be untouchables. I'm stubborn and I don't care.:geeza2:


I'll think about it. It pains me to think of any of those kids in a different uniform...



I agree, I love Lester and think he is really gonna be a good pitcher one day. It will pain me to see him in another uni, but this is baseball and it happens and all we can hope is that the deal is worth it in the end.

Just think Pedro, I absolutely hated to see him leave and he wasn't even a homegrown.

Sureal
12-05-2007, 11:33 AM
We are starting to sound like them circa 1998.

I feel dirty...

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 11:49 AM
Totally agree with you Newc. And the thing that really bothers me is when thee owners come out and say if more people came out to the ballpark we would be able to spend more money. Well that's a bunch of crap. If they put a team on the field that is competitve and has a shot at the playoffs fans do come to the ballpark. Put a quality team on the field and the fans do reward you by showing up to tne games.

Newc
12-05-2007, 11:53 AM
Haha we will never be "them"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't make bogus deadlines public nor do we try to impose our will solely due to the fact that we are "them".

Theo is a very reputable guy to deal with who is praised for his integrity and class. "They" are regarded as jackasses who have already seemed to ruffle the feathers of many top GMs.

Newc
12-05-2007, 11:57 AM
Totally agree with you Newc. And the thing that really bothers me is when thee owners come out and say if more people came out to the ballpark we would be able to spend more money. Well that's a bunch of crap. If they put a team on the field that is competitve and has a shot at the playoffs fans do come to the ballpark. Put a quality team on the field and the fans do reward you by showing up to tne games.


Exactly, supply and demand. Supply a quality team and the demand for tickets will be high. Some of the oweners have began to sound like Ravens players that there is a conspiracy in favor of the big money teams.

I forget what the number was exaclty, but I think it was 6 Billion that MLB generated last year. 6 Billion!?!?!? And you can't field 30 quality ball clubs?? Funny how this isn't the case in the NFL where there is a salary cap that forces the smaller market teams to pay for talent because the big teams can't own it all. Basically what it means is, if the owners really wanted top players on their teams they could definitely afford them. Hey, some guys are in the game just to make a buck rather than for the passion of the game and you know what, thats just fine, but don't pretend that you are a victim.

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 12:09 PM
Sureal, are you suggesting a Inge for Lester trade? I think my Tigers would we willing. :makeadeal

SoCalDomer
12-05-2007, 12:14 PM
alright. the title of this thread needs to be changed. I read "hot stove" and thought for sure you had pancakes in here.

Newc
12-05-2007, 12:24 PM
alright. the title of this thread needs to be changed. I read "hot stove" and thought for sure you had pancakes in here.

Thats this saturday at the IE Pancake Social...we are just heating the stove up for now.

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 12:43 PM
Is spinner out taping the tree for the syrup?

Newc
12-05-2007, 01:00 PM
Haha...actually I believe he is out harvesting the "fruit" of another plant of his.

Newc
12-05-2007, 01:02 PM
Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi is reported to be heading home today, so for any Giants fans out there, Rios is most likely not coming to a bay near you.

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 01:06 PM
Man it just rips my heart out when other teams aren't as successful at meeting their off-season objectives as mine. :devil_2:

HereComeTheIrish
12-05-2007, 01:16 PM
Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi is reported to be heading home today, so for any Giants fans out there, Rios is most likely not coming to a bay near you.

There were some rumblings on the news last night that Cleveland may be a player for Rios...

I remember because the names Cliff Lee and Francisco Cabrera came up with relation to this possibility.

Newc
12-05-2007, 01:25 PM
There were some rumblings on the news last night that Cleveland may be a player for Rios...

I remember because the names Cliff Lee and Francisco Cabrera came up with relation to this possibility.

Wow..that would be a big pickup for the Tribe, a bat like Rios could really help them out (not like they are in need of it though). With the Tigers move I wouldn't be surprised to seem some big deals in the AL Central now that the competition is heating up so much.

Newc
12-05-2007, 01:31 PM
You know what, that Rios deal could potentially be huge. Gutierrez is not ready to be a full time outfielder but would make for a great utility player and with Michaels in left he could spell him for a few games as well. With Sizemore and Rios roaming center and right few balls would be allowed to drop into some of those crevices there in Cleveland. Just think, if the Tribe had a guy like Rios, would that ball Grady went after only to have it bounce off his glove after he laid out had been caught by a speedy right fielder potentially propelling the Tribe to the World Series??? I guess we'll never know.

HereComeTheIrish
12-05-2007, 01:32 PM
Wow..that would be a big pickup for the Tribe, a bat like Rios could really help them out (not like they are in need of it though). With the Tigers move I wouldn't be surprised to seem some big deals in the AL Central now that the competition is heating up so much.

We'll take everything we can get at this point. This could get interesting.

HereComeTheIrish
12-05-2007, 01:33 PM
You know what, that Rios deal could potentially be huge. Gutierrez is not ready to be a full time outfielder but would make for a great utility player and with Michaels in left he could spell him for a few games as well. With Sizemore and Rios roaming center and right few balls would be allowed to drop into some of those crevices there in Cleveland. Just think, if the Tribe had a guy like Rios, would that ball Grady went after only to have it bounce off his glove after he laid out had been caught by a speedy right fielder potentially propelling the Tribe to the World Series??? I guess we'll never know.

Agreed. Good post.

Newc
12-05-2007, 01:34 PM
The AL Central will be the best division in baseball next year without a doubt. The competition is going to be insane.

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 02:24 PM
HCTI, don't come on here and ruin my good day with news like that. But seriosly if the Tribe make that trade it will be a wild summer in the Central Div. And the wierd part is going to be when I see a thread about the Sox's on this site I'll be thinking of the ones with the white ones. :wink:

Sureal
12-05-2007, 02:34 PM
Don't worry about the White Sox. They may make a little noise but not so much...

Good ole Ozzy will be a third base coach for the Pirates in '09.

Newc
12-05-2007, 03:42 PM
Just to keep those hot stove fires burning: Per John Perrotto from Baseball Prospectus

3:30 p.m. ET: A Minnesota official said Wednesday that he is "99 percent sure" that left-hander Johan Santana will still be a Twin when the meetings end Thursday. The Twins still figure to deal Santana sometime before spring training, though it now seems no longer a complete lock that he will be traded to the Red Sox or the Yankees.

Blue Jays President Paul Godfrey created a stir when he was quoted in Tuesday's editions of the Toronto Globe & Mail as saying Toronto would like add a high-profile Canadian-born player, namely Baltimore left-hander Erik Bedard or Pittsburgh left fielder Jason Bay. However, a Blue Jays official said Wednesday that Toronto hasn't talked to either the Orioles or Pirates during the Winter Meetings, and dismissed the idea that either player is coming home to his native land.

Milwaukee and St. Louis have the framework of a deal set in which the Brewers would get third baseman Scott Rolen from the Cardinals for left-hander Chris Capuano. What is holding the deal up is haggling over other players that might included in the trade, and also how much, if anything, St. Louis will pay of the $36 million left on the final three years on Rolen's contract.

A five-player trade between Cleveland and Pittsburgh has been discussed, and while it likely won't go down in Nashville, the talks could be rekindled at some later date during the offseason. The Indians would send left-hander Cliff Lee, catcher Kelly Shoppach, and outfielder Franklin Gutierrez to the Pirates for Bay and catcher Ronny Paulino. However, the Pirates are said to prefer a young left-hander, either Aaron Laffey or Jeremy Sowers, in Lee's place.

Newc
12-05-2007, 03:44 PM
That last little piece is interesting for you Cleveland fans (Walsh, HCTI). I'm sure you wouldn't mind seeing Jason Bay in a tribe uni and to be honest, subing Laffey in there for Lee wouldn't be a bad move either.

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 03:51 PM
Hey maybe my Tigers can get Santana . What do you all think ?

Sureal
12-05-2007, 03:53 PM
What a let down. I hate the offseason. Bump baseball.

Newc
12-05-2007, 04:41 PM
Hey maybe my Tigers can get Santana . What do you all think ?


Well, nothing is impossible, but with the Tigers already unloading Miller and Maybin, they really have no one to offer the Twins and to be honest it is going to take a duo such as Miller and Maybin to bring in Santana.

I'm beginning to believe that Santana will be throwing opening day wearing a Twins uni.

Sureal
12-05-2007, 04:49 PM
Crap.

Man I had my hopes up and look at this. I'm looking to see who we can pick up for a second starter. Not much out there...

Newc
12-05-2007, 04:55 PM
Alright, just in case some of you haven't grown tired of my avatar and signature picture yet, I've got a little bit of new info from a trusted source who has been reliable from the Sons of Sam Horn site:

Just got an incredible rumor from a trusted New York sportswriter. Stay with me, because this one's crazy. But rest assured that if the source wasn't good, I wouldn't post it.

Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Twins and A's. Here's how it would go down:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A's
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

The source says Haren is exactly the type of player the Twins want for Santana, a cheap frontline starter. It's known the Mets would hate to deal Reyes but they would get some value beyond Santana. Billy Beane is happy because he gets Reyes for one more year than he had Haren plus longtime favorite Mulvey. And, he's out of Crosby's contract.

This would effectively set the baseball world on fire if this were to go down. Supposedly, the guy who was able to find this info was the first to report the Tigers/Marlins trade and list all players involved. Any thoughts?

onenybrother
12-05-2007, 05:00 PM
Alright, just in case some of you haven't grown tired of my avatar and signature picture yet, I've got a little bit of new info from a trusted source who has been reliable from the Sons of Sam Horn site:

Just got an incredible rumor from a trusted New York sportswriter. Stay with me, because this one's crazy. But rest assured that if the source wasn't good, I wouldn't post it.

Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Twins and A's. Here's how it would go down:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A's
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets
A's send Dan Haren to Twins
Twins send Johan Santana to Mets

Mets get Johan Santana, Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson
A's get Jose Reyes and Kevin Mulvey
Twins get Dan Haren and Hector Pellot

The source says Haren is exactly the type of player the Twins want for Santana, a cheap frontline starter. It's known the Mets would hate to deal Reyes but they would get some value beyond Santana. Billy Beane is happy because he gets Reyes for one more year than he had Haren plus longtime favorite Mulvey. And, he's out of Crosby's contract.

This would effectively set the baseball world on fire if this were to go down. Supposedly, the guy who was able to find this info was the first to report the Tigers/Marlins trade and list all players involved. Any thoughts?

The Mets Gm has stated all week that Jose Reyes is not being traded. This post is worthless.

Newc
12-05-2007, 05:18 PM
Crap.

Man I had my hopes up and look at this. I'm looking to see who we can pick up for a second starter. Not much out there...

Haren is always out there, Bedard (though there is no way the Sox deal within the division) and Blanton have been talked about. And to think, Billy Beene has a HUGE crush on Youklis, sooooooo.....we could always go that route since the A's need outfield help. Coco, Youk and Masterson for Haren then turn around and deal Lester to Arizona for Connor Jackson straight up. Arizona is in BIGTIME need of a pitcher and I doubt they will win the Kuroda (Japanese pitcher) sweepstakes especially since its not a given he even wants to come to the states. This would give the Backs a starter they could plug into their rotation right away and we wouldn't have to worry about Lester coming back and biting us unless we see them in the World Series.

daytonirish
12-05-2007, 05:22 PM
That trade would defenitly be huge. As far as the mets GM saying Reyes will not be traded. How many times have we heard something like that. You know , we have complete faith in our coach, so&so is untouchable, yada,yada,yada. I'll be waiting to see if this really happens. Hope so, gets Santana out of not only the A.L. but out of the Central. I say make the trade.

Newc
12-05-2007, 05:24 PM
The Mets Gm has stated all week that Jose Reyes is not being traded. This post is worthless.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is. Minaya needs to make something big happen this offseason after that historical collapse and with Glavine gone that shotty rotation in NY is in big time need of a frontline starter.

If you were Omar would you be comfortable with Pedro (with injury problems and well past his prime), Oliver Perez, Orlando Hernandez, John Maine and Mike Pelfrey?? There isn't a solid #1 on the team. The Mets need to do something and if Reyes in the only thing that will bring back a top of the line starter then you have to atleast test the waters.


And besides, I don't think I would trust anything said by a baseball GM this time of the year.

Newc
12-05-2007, 08:28 PM
Billy Beene has shot down the idea of the above blockbuster trade stating that the A's would not be improving their situation any. Sooooo...looks like the Johan Soap Opera will continue.

ACamp1900
12-06-2007, 12:24 AM
Acamp, what do you think your boys are gonna do now? Do they go after Inge or try to deal for Rolen or do you just sit tight and stay with Howie playing third?

Rolen was never a real option from what I have heard... Inge is a last ditch paln D thing... they want Tejada first, A Ram now Second and I have heard whispers of trying to get Kahlil Greene from S.D. which is actually the trade I like... Howie Kendrick has never been seen as a third baseman... Brandon Wood is the kid who can play third...

They are shopping Chone Figgins in a deal for Aramais Ramirez (sp?) right now... i still feel pretty strong that Eck may be back with us this year too... though that's just my gut feeling...

onenybrother
12-06-2007, 09:30 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he is. Minaya needs to make something big happen this offseason after that historical collapse and with Glavine gone that shotty rotation in NY is in big time need of a frontline starter.

If you were Omar would you be comfortable with Pedro (with injury problems and well past his prime), Oliver Perez, Orlando Hernandez, John Maine and Mike Pelfrey?? There isn't a solid #1 on the team. The Mets need to do something and if Reyes in the only thing that will bring back a top of the line starter then you have to atleast test the waters.


And besides, I don't think I would trust anything said by a baseball GM this time of the year.

The man has stated through out the off season that Reyes, Wright and Beltran is off the table for any trade. The Met's will be opening up a new stadium next year. I dont see them trading ther most popular players on the field and merchandise selling. Your right we do need a top line starter, but so do about 28 other clubs. The Twins want to have it both ways. Dont spend none of your luxury tax money . Then try to fleece the league when there players about to come up for free agency.

daytonirish
12-06-2007, 09:46 AM
ESPN is reporting that Andruw Jones has signed with the Dodgers.

Newc
12-06-2007, 10:00 AM
ESPN is reporting that Andruw Jones has signed with the Dodgers.

Good pick up by the Dodgers. I knew Andruw wasn't going to get a 5 year deal, not after the year he just had, now Torre has a vet to roam center while they continue to develop some of their youngsters to take his place once Andruw's deal is up.

Newc
12-06-2007, 11:07 AM
With Andruw off the market now, do Cameron and Rowand sign quickly?? Plenty of need out there still for a solid centerfielder and I'm really surprised that the White Sox have not already locked up Rowand as they are in dire need of a CFer.

onenybrother
12-06-2007, 11:13 AM
[QUOTE=Newc;198474]With Andruw off the market now, do Cameron and Rowand sign quickly?? Plenty of need out there still for a solid centerfielder and I'm really surprised that the White Sox have not already locked up Rowand as they are in dire need of a CFer.

I think Cameron people is gonna wait until after Santana get settled. The Twins need a center field. The press here been saying that if Santana comes to the Stankees, then Cameron will be on there radar. Everbody feels that Melky Carbera will be part of that trade if it get made.

onenybrother
12-06-2007, 11:17 AM
NASHVILLE ē The Cardinals depart Opryland this afternoon with Scott Rolen still their third baseman. If that represents a problem, it belongs only to Rolen, according to his manager.

Speaking at length about a topic that has preoccupied the club this week, Cardinals skipper Tony La Russa on Wednesday laid responsibility for an ongoing impasse between him and the Gold Glove infielder squarely on Rolenís shoulders, insisting that the club should not craft a trade merely to placate Rolen.

"Speaking for me ... thereís absolutely no intention to accommodate Scott," La Russa said. "I mean, thatís not how you run an organization. The idea is to accommodate the St. Louis Cardinals, our team, our responsibility to our players and to the competition. So, no, I donít want to accommodate Scott."

La Russa and Rolen have not spoken at length since midway through last season. The manager sent a lengthy letter to Rolen shortly after the season but the correspondence was poorly received, leading to further erosion of a relationship that became strained in 2003 and has only deteriorated since.

Shortly after La Russa accepted a two-year, $8.5 million extension, Rolen notified general manager John Mozeliak he would relinquish his no-trade leverage if the club would ship him to a contender. The Cardinals approached a deal with the Milwaukee Brewers earlier this week but talks stalled, causing Mozeliak to predict Rolenís return in 2008.

La Russa noted the clubís failed effort to move Rolen, saying, "if that deal isnít one that helps us, (it) should not be made." Advertisement


La Russaís comments spiced a day in which the Cardinals discussed the availability of several free agent pitchers,
including former AL Cy Young Award winner Bartolo Colon and Kris Benson. The club also retains interest in former Colorado Rockies pitcher Josh Fogg. Once loathe to add another health question to a staff with Chris Carpenter (elbow) and Mark Mulder (shoulder), the Cardinals now are trying to land a veteran to a short-term deal.

Colon has suffered a torn rotator cuff and elbow irritation since winning the 2005 AL Cy Young Award. Benson required shoulder surgery before appearing last season for the Baltimore Orioles, who declined a option $7.5 million option on the righthander for next season.

The Cardinals also have expressed interest in free agent center fielder Aaron Rowand. The Philadelphia Phillies no longer believe they have a chance to retain him.

To prepare for todayís major-league draft, the Cardinals have considered releasing outfielder So Taguchi after six seasons. The Cardinals declined to assume Taguchiís option for next season but had the chance to go to arbitration with him. Taguchiís agent, Alan Nero, requested his clientís release earlier in the week.

The Cardinals are also believed close to signing former Oakland Aís lefthanded reliever Ron Flores to a minor-league contract. Flores, 28, is the younger brother of Cardinals reliever Randy Flores. The younger Flores made 17 appearances last season for the Aís.

The teamís activity in the Opryland lobby became secondary news to their managerís question-and-answer session, as Wednesday, La Russa publicly challenged Rolen during a interview that followed a managersí luncheon. La Russa described the matter as "very personal."

"Itís very clear that heís unhappy. And Iím making it clear that I donít know why heís unhappy," La Russa said. "I can make a list of 50 respect points that this man has been given by our organization. Itís time for him to give back."

Added La Russa: "Heís got a contract to play, and we need him to play. And heís going to be treated very honestly.

"If he plays hard and he plays as well as he can, he plays. And if he doesnít, he can sit. If he doesnít like it, he can quit."

Wednesdayís remarks seemingly ended any hope for a diplomatic resolution. La Russa believed that possibility vanished when Rolen requested a trade. Mozeliak attempted to broker an uneasy truce without success.

Entering his 30th season as a major-league manager, La Russa said he has never deal with an issue that has baffled him so.
"Iíve said I was mystified, which I am. Iíve been managing a long time. I canít remember ever being this bothered this much by any situation with any player," La Russa said.

La Russa polled his clubhouse during the seasonís final two weeks to gauge support for his return. Rolen was the only dissenter, the manager said. Rolen, who has three years remaining on a contract extension signed in September 2002, has not publicly discussed the matter since leaving the club in September following shoulder surgery. However, Rolen has made clear to associates his frustration with La Russaís handling of several matters, including his ongoing shoulder issues and what he perceives as double standards within the clubhouse.

La Russa said he does not know first-hand of any issue other than the handling of Rolenís damaged shoulder in 2005, when the Cardinals attempted to have the player rehabilitate from injury and arthroscopic surgery. When Rolenís recovery stalled, a Cincinnati orthopedist offered a more serious second opinion. Dr. Tim Kremchek, the Cincinnati Redsí medical supervisor, performed reconstructive surgery on the shoulder after Rolenís agents, Sam and Seth Levinson, threatened legal action in order to gain the clubís consent. Rolen prohibited a Cardinals team doctor from assisting during the procedure.

Kremchek also performed a clean-up procedure on the shoulder this Sept. 11.

"I know he had that first surgery by that Cincinnati doctor. Now suppose our guy had done it and he had to go back for a second surgery?" La Russa said. "Scott hasnít been critical of the Cincinnati doctor. He just went in and did it, like nothing. If our guy had had to go back for a second surgery, based on his comments about the way it was handled, (the doctor) would have been crucified."

La Russa insists the Cardinals are a much better team with a healthy Rolen in the lineup because of support he provides No. 3 hitter Albert Pujols. However, Wednesdayís comments would seem to further complicate any further co-existence.

La Russa laid responsibility for making the situation work on Rolen.

"Based on what Iíve seen somewhere, I think (Rolen is) strong-minded enough that I donít see his opinion changing on a personal basis. And itís gotten to the point where I donít care," La Russa said.

La Russa suggested that Rolenís status as a player and as a teammate has "slipped," an assertion he also made in his letter to the player, according to a source familiar with it. "He can play mad every day if he wants to. Thatís OK," La Russa said.
That possibility may increase, as Mozeliak admitted difficulty stoking the marketplace.

The Cardinals have approached several teams about Rolen but been frustrated in their attempts to acquire multiple players for him. The Brewers apparently drew the line at pitcher Chris Capuano. The Los Angeles Dodgers have an interest but were described by one team official Wednesday as "background noise."

daytonirish
12-06-2007, 12:02 PM
Great way to get teams knocking on your door about a trade for Rolen. If I'm a GM I just sit back and wait for the remainder of the bottom falling out.I can't see Rolen playing for the card's next yr. after this.

SoCalDomer
12-06-2007, 12:34 PM
Good pick up by the Dodgers. I knew Andruw wasn't going to get a 5 year deal, not after the year he just had, now Torre has a vet to roam center while they continue to develop some of their youngsters to take his place once Andruw's deal is up.

They only signed a 2 year deal, which is peculiar since Boras is his agent.

1) maybe Jones isn't sure if he really wants to load up his truck and move to beverly, hills that is;
2) maybe they don't want him longer than 2 years (Dodgers have someone who is 2 years away from being big league material); or
3) Jones and his agent think he will have two great seasons and be able to demand an even better long term deal than he could right now because of his last season performance.

Newc
12-06-2007, 12:37 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the role of a manager include stabilizing the team?? Joe Torre is one of the best ever of squashing problems in the clubhouse before they ever see the light of day, La Russa needs to take the same approach.

I have never been the biggest fan of La Russa, I've always thought that he viewed himself in a flattering light. Sure he can manage the game of baseball, but the guy also needs to be able to manage his players.

Now, by no means do I believe that Rolen has no responsibility in this manner, it was well publicized that he and Larry Bowa did not get along either, so Scott needs to take on some of the blame here as well.

This is just a bad situation that will only get worse and the truth is, the Cards need to deal this guy and get him out of the organization and get rid of the ultimate distraction and tension that it will create come opening day. If you don't get "fair value" back then you don't get fair value, but you also have to weigh the detriment of having Rolen on your squad as well when you measure his value. Kinda of like a B player, D personality therefore a C player in return is a justifiable move.

Newc
12-06-2007, 12:45 PM
They only signed a 2 year deal, which is peculiar since Boras is his agent.

1) maybe Jones isn't sure if he really wants to load up his truck and move to beverly, hills that is;
2) maybe they don't want him longer than 2 years (Dodgers have someone who is 2 years away from being big league material); or
3) Jones and his agent think he will have two great seasons and be able to demand an even better long term deal than he could right now because of his last season performance.

Haha, I think this was one of those, "This is the best we are going to get" moves.

I doubt Boras is happy about the 2 year deal, but there was no way a team was going to risk more than 2 in case last year was more of a trend than a fluke for Druw.
I also think Boras has got to be steaming that Druw only got 18 per year when he was originally talking about him being a 20 million dollar man and wanted a contract bigger than that of Hunters.
I've got to say, with two big clients not getting what they wanted or atleast what Boris told them he was going to get them, Scott has a bit of egg on his face, which couldn't make me happier. I have no problem with guys wanting what they are worth and trying to get the most that they can because of thier talent, but Boras has just played a dirty game for too long and bullied teams into paying inflated contracts.

Sureal
12-06-2007, 12:51 PM
Newc where is your baseball blog?

Newc
12-06-2007, 01:05 PM
Haha...I just piggyback off sites such at this.


By the way..for all those Sox and Yanks fans out there. The Nationals are close to signing Aaron "f*****g" Boone.

Newc
12-06-2007, 01:20 PM
• There are rumblings in Nashville that the $36.2 million deal for Andruw Jones was Scott Boras' way of making sure that Jones' contract exceeds Torii Hunter's contract in average annual value. Jones will make $18.1 million a season compared to Hunter's $18 million per year with the Angels. - ESPN Hot Stove Blog


Hahahahahahaha, Boras must have gotten beaten up alot when he was in grade school.

SoCalDomer
12-06-2007, 02:00 PM
ē There are rumblings in Nashville that the $36.2 million deal for Andruw Jones was Scott Boras' way of making sure that Jones' contract exceeds Torii Hunter's contract in average annual value. Jones will make $18.1 million a season compared to Hunter's $18 million per year with the Angels. - ESPN Hot Stove Blog


Hahahahahahaha, Boras must have gotten beaten up alot when he was in grade school.

Ha. What Boras forgot to factor in is how much better it is to live in The OC than Los Angeles. Oh wait, according to Art Moreno, the Angels ARE in Los Angeles. double dinggleberries.

Sureal
12-06-2007, 03:00 PM
Newc do you post on SOSH?

Newc
12-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Newc do you post on SOSH?

No, I just lurk around. Thats one of the most intense sites I have ever seen, I don't know if I could keep up with them.

Sureal
12-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Those guys know too much about baseball and have absolutely no life...


Thank God we have them around!!!

Newc
12-06-2007, 04:44 PM
Haha exactly...I go surf around for 15-20 min and I know the Red Sox from A-Pro....its a hell of a resource.

daytonirish
12-06-2007, 04:51 PM
Well I figured that since you two Newc and Sureal helped me get to 100 post so quick on this thread alone I would come here and say thanks for great baseball conversation and reps to both of you. :bbanana:

daytonirish
12-06-2007, 04:54 PM
Sureal they wont let me rep you for some reason so I'll try agian later.

Newc
12-06-2007, 05:02 PM
Haha, you're welcome. I love coming on this site because of the people on here have intelligent conversations and don't get too intense or crazy.

I'm just surprised I haven't been fired yet since I'm on here throughout the day.

Newc
12-06-2007, 05:04 PM
ESPN - Guillen, Gibbons get 15-day suspensions; Ankiel, others not punished - MLB (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3144472)

Sucks for the Royals. I wonder if there will be any action taken once the Mitchell Report comes out because I could see many teams being without key pieces for 25 games like the Royals will be.

daytonirish
12-06-2007, 05:09 PM
I have a feeling every team will be affected by this report. Don't tell me it hasn't happened on every team. Don't buy that.

Newc
12-06-2007, 05:17 PM
ESPN - Pirates make room for Rule 5 draft pick Meek by releasing Castillo - MLB (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3144489)


Camper, this kid could be a good fit on the Angels if they end up shipping some of your infielders off and need to fill a hole. He doesn't hit for the greatest average, but he has that speed that Mike likes on the basepaths and has a solid glove. You could probably snag him off the market for 3 mill for 2 years to give him a look considering he is still young.

Newc
12-06-2007, 05:49 PM
I have a feeling every team will be affected by this report. Don't tell me it hasn't happened on every team. Don't buy that.

Yea for real. I continue to hear that the so called experts from that four letter network (as my friend Charlie Steiner likes to say) that the epidemic isn't as wide spread as we are lead to believe. There is no way that it is a contained few that are quilty and I really think there will be some big names and names we would have never believed linked to this report.

Though I think baseball has unfairly taken the brunt of the criticism when it comes to professional steriod use, I really hope that this report turns out to be proactive rather than turning the MLB into a circus. If I were Selig (and I really wish I was, man would that be an awesome job) I would take this report and use it as a huge leveraging tool with the unions. What Selig needs to do is say, the future of baseball is now, we need to recognize the past and learn from it. No asterix, no suspensions, no fines. Take this information and make the best of it. Everyone starts with a clean slate, MLB included, however, this will never EVER happen again. With the list of names, and I really believe that it will be, take it to the unions and slap it in their faces and say SEE it WAS a problem and it WAS prevelant, therefore from now on, there WILL be mandatory blood testing, no if ands of buts about it. With these testings will come a revised disciplinary plan. This report is chance #1, we all know its illegal and will not be tolerated, therefore you have been warned. First offense will be chance #2 and carry with it a 81 game suspension, Second offense will be strike three as they say in baseball (get the connection there?? I'm a clever one) and you're out of the league.

Baseball will be just as exciting and entertaining without steroids, hey if they were all on steriods, wouldn't the results be the same if they were all off steroids?? I have been a fan of baseball since I was born and I absolutely love the game, to the point where my passion sometimes scares me, as well as others who quite don't love the game like I do and I have always believed that baseball was held to a higher standard than other sports and was always a classier organization. Baseball doesn't seem to have the contoversies that other sports do, their players aren't involved in the legal and moral issues that other sports are more known for, so I believe baseball has to take a very strong stance once this report comes out and shows the public that they are very serious about righting this wrong and cleaning up the game.

I know that was a lot of rambling, but I really love baseball and this report kind of scares me but at the same time carries hope that this may be the piece that baseball needs in order to start over again.

daytonirish
12-06-2007, 06:06 PM
Newc I only see one major prblem with your proposal. It makes too much sense.

Clausen2Kamara
12-06-2007, 10:39 PM
Anyways, I am hearing the Cubs are really interested in the Orioles All-Star 2B Brian Roberts...He has a great OBP and some serious speed.../I just hope they don't give up Rich Hill for him..

stonebreakerwasgod
12-06-2007, 11:00 PM
The Reds released Jorge Cantu, who did ok for them this past year. I'm wondering if it wasn't due to an expected mention of him on the report. No question some of the moves from winter ball are due to what is expected.

For some insight on what may happen...here's an article from a cbs sports guy, who happens to host a talk show in Cincy.

Baseball's hypocrisy and greed will come crashing down soon - CBSSports.com (http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10516041)

Newc
12-06-2007, 11:03 PM
Anyways, I am hearing the Cubs are really interested in the Orioles All-Star 2B Brian Roberts...He has a great OBP and some serious speed.../I just hope they don't give up Rich Hill for him..

Ken Rosenthal said today on Charlie Steiner's program that the cubs could very well be in big talks with the Orioles and Bedard was even brought up. A frontline starter like that could make a big impact there in Wrigley.

Clausen2Kamara
12-07-2007, 11:25 AM
Ken Rosenthal said today on Charlie Steiner's program that the cubs could very well be in big talks with the Orioles and Bedard was even brought up. A frontline starter like that could make a big impact there in Wrigley.

Agreed. If the Cubs can get Roberts and Bedard...wow. They will be serious contenders to win at least 90 games. With Bedard and Big Z that would be a great 1-2 punch. I'd think they'd have 2 give up Hill and another good young arm 2 get him tho..which imo would be worth it. I just don't want Jason Marquis 2 pitch the second half of the season...

Clausen2Kamara
12-07-2007, 11:28 AM
Oh yea, it would be interesting if we do in fact get Roberts, would Pinella put Soriano at 3? I think Sori would b much more productive at that spot. Roberts stole like 50 bases last season, and gets on base a lot.

Newc
12-07-2007, 11:35 AM
Twins in no rush to deal ace - BostonHerald.com (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1049326)

"The continued mention of the Mets cannot be ignored because there is a strong sense, at least among executives involved in these talks, that Santana will waive his no-trade clause for only three teams: the Red Sox, Yankees and Mets."

Looks like Santana only wants to come east. If that is the case then I can't imagine the Yankees not getting back in on this deal, and like I said before, don't be surprised if you see Reyes put in a deal for Santana, Willie had a few problems with him last year and was not a big fan of what he called his "showy" personality.

Newc
12-07-2007, 11:42 AM
Agreed. If the Cubs can get Roberts and Bedard...wow. They will be serious contenders to win at least 90 games. With Bedard and Big Z that would be a great 1-2 punch. I'd think they'd have 2 give up Hill and another good young arm 2 get him tho..which imo would be worth it. I just don't want Jason Marquis 2 pitch the second half of the season...

If the Cubs were able to get both Bedard and Roberts I believe they would be the best team in the NL next year. Bedard is a hell of a pitcher and would only do better against NL teams. He was in the hitter heavy AL East last year and was fairly dominant. And Roberts is a very solid and second baseman both with the glove and the bat. I would really like to see the Cubs become a solid contender next year and make a push for the World Series.


2008 World Series:
Boston Red Sox v. Chicago Cubs

MLB would be absolutely drooling over this scenerio as would I. Talk about one hell of a series!! Going to seven would be even better with Beckett coming back on short rest and beating Bedard for back to back titles for beantown.

Clausen2Kamara
12-07-2007, 11:46 AM
If the Cubs were able to get both Bedard and Roberts I believe they would be the best team in the NL next year. Bedard is a hell of a pitcher and would only do better against NL teams. He was in the hitter heavy AL East last year and was fairly dominant. And Roberts is a very solid and second baseman both with the glove and the bat. I would really like to see the Cubs become a solid contender next year and make a push for the World Series.


2008 World Series:
Boston Red Sox v. Chicago Cubs

MLB would be absolutely drooling over this scenerio as would I. Talk about one hell of a series!! Going to seven would be even better with Beckett coming back on short rest and beating Bedard for back to back titles for beantown.

hah. Newc u da man bro. That would be an awesome series, it should have happend in 2003 but I don't even wanna go there...I agree if the Cubs can pull that off, they would roll over the weak Central and win at least 90 games. I know Bedard is a good pitcher but I'm sure you've seen him more than me.. So what do u think of him? Also is Roberts a leadoff type or a 2 hitter?

onenybrother
12-07-2007, 11:51 AM
Newc I notice your posting alot without facts lately.

Newc
12-07-2007, 12:05 PM
Newc I notice your posting alot without facts lately.

Do I normally?

Newc
12-07-2007, 12:19 PM
hah. Newc u da man bro. That would be an awesome series, it should have happend in 2003 but I don't even wanna go there...I agree if the Cubs can pull that off, they would roll over the weak Central and win at least 90 games. I know Bedard is a good pitcher but I'm sure you've seen him more than me.. So what do u think of him? Also is Roberts a leadoff type or a 2 hitter?


Bedard is seriously one of the best up and coming pitchers. He has good command and isn't afraid to attack hitter. Before he was shut down he was leading the MLB in strikeouts, which I feel is sometimes overrated, but the way he did it was pretty special.

Here are his numbers:
G W-L ERA Inn. HR BB K
2006: 33 15-11 3.76 196 16 69 171
2007: 28 13-5 3.16 182 19 57 221

You have to consider he did this as well on the Orioles who did not do much to help him win and had absolutely no bullpen to seal up wins for him. To be honest, after seeing what he did in the AL East the past two season I would have to say if I were a GM he would be number two on my list of pitchers I wanted this offseason and thats only 2nd to Santana who is a freak to begin with.

Bedard would easily get 18 wins in Chicago and probably get to 20 games if the Cubs get a little bullpen help. I could see his ERA being close to the 3.16 he had this past year, maybe around 3.05-3.20 range. The only thing is he has yet to throw 200 innings in a season in the bigs, so he would most likely have to be your number two untill he can prove he can throw a whole season strong. His K's would go up due to playing in the NL for sure and you've gotta think with a K/BB ratio of 3.88 last year while giving up only 19 homers in Camden Yards he would keep the bases clear and let that Cub offense do their thing.

Roberts ins't a lead off hitter, but would be an awesome number 2. He hit 42 doubles last year and 45 in '05. If that doesn't scream run set-up to you I don't know what does. 12 homers last year isn't anything to get excited about, but who cares, he's your number 2, let him set the table for Soriano and Lee.

I'll tell you what, if the Cubs by any chance are able to get both these guys, with Pinella at the helm, Chicago will be a powerhouse.

daytonirish
12-07-2007, 12:30 PM
LOL (RED SOX-Cubs) WS 08. Any real baseball fan knows that after the winter meetings it's going to be the Tiger vs. Reds in 08. :jawdrop:

SoCalDomer
12-07-2007, 12:32 PM
You would think the Marlins won it lthis year with the way they are selling off all their talent.

Newc
12-07-2007, 12:41 PM
You would think the Marlins won it lthis year with the way they are selling off all their talent.

Yea really...I feel sorry for Florida fans, thats gotta be hard to stay loyal.

Newc
12-12-2007, 03:33 PM
ESPN - Cubs, Fukudome reach preliminary deal, pending physical - MLB (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3151725)

There you go Cubbies...a power lefty who can play a good right field. I've only seen him in the WBC, but from what I saw he looks like a pretty good player. A very nice addition to a team that needed a right fielder and lefty bat.

Gordon Wittenmyer was saying today, that now that the Cubs have gotten their man in Fukudome that they are poised to go after Brian Roberts of the Orioles hard and that if the trade that went down today between the Astros and the Os shows anything its that the Os are eager to get young and load up on prospects. Makes you wonder what kind of deal the Cubs would put together to get Roberts. I don't know the Cubs minor leagues, so do any Cub fans here have any ideas of who could be packaged in a deal?? Maybe the Shark???

daytonirish
12-12-2007, 05:29 PM
ESPN reporting the S.F. Giants have signed CF Aaron Rowand to a 5 yr. 60 mil. contract.

Newc
12-12-2007, 10:39 PM
Haha, I can't blame him for opting to get as far away from philly as he can.