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IRISHDODGER
02-27-2007, 07:54 AM
It's time for the Veteran's Committe to elect the players/individuals that they feel worthy of a Hall induction after being overlooked by the writers. With that in mind who are some folks that you feel have been overlooked & deserve enshrinement? You gotta think the following have a chance of getting in via the Vet Comm.: Ron Santo, Gil Hodges, Kenny Boyer, Buck O'Neill & Joe Torre.

Santo & Hodges, IMO, should be slam dunks. Only one RH batter had more career homers than Hodges when he retired from a decorated career w/ the Dodgers (yeah I'm biased). He also went on to guide the 1969 "Miracle Mets" to the crown. Santo has the numbers you'd want to earn enshrinement especially considering there are very few 3rd basemen in the Hall. He played on some horrific Cubs teams, yet still was a perenial All-Star & unsurpassed at his position during his career. It's a crime that O'Neill isn't in yet & unfortunately, he'll now have to go in posthumously. Joe Torre may eventually get in based on the combo of his playing & managerial career. Although, I think his playing career makes a pretty good case on its own.

Keep in mind, you should list those currently on the ballot that you feel deserve enshrinement as well, not just the Veteran's Committee.

nd1
02-27-2007, 03:53 PM
It's time for the Veteran's Committe to elect the players/individuals that they feel worthy of a Hall induction after being overlooked by the writers. With that in mind who are some folks that you feel have been overlooked & deserve enshrinement? You gotta think the following have a chance of getting in via the Vet Comm.: Ron Santo, Gil Hodges, Kenny Boyer, Buck O'Neill & Joe Torre.

Santo & Hodges, IMO, should be slam dunks. Only one RH batter had more career homers than Hodges when he retired from a decorated career w/ the Dodgers (yeah I'm biased). He also went on to guide the 1969 "Miracle Mets" to the crown. Santo has the numbers you'd want to earn enshrinement especially considering there are very few 3rd basemen in the Hall. He played on some horrific Cubs teams, yet still was a perenial All-Star & unsurpassed at his position during his career. It's a crime that O'Neill isn't in yet & unfortunately, he'll now have to go in posthumously. Joe Torre may eventually get in based on the combo of his playing & managerial career. Although, I think his playing career makes a pretty good case on its own.

Keep in mind, you should list those currently on the ballot that you feel deserve enshrinement as well, not just the Veteran's Committee.



they didn't put anyone in.

GoshenGipper
02-27-2007, 05:33 PM
As far as the VC goes I think Santo & Hodges should be ing also, but who knows if they're going to make it because the VC has never elected anyone.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Ron-Santo---With-Bat-posed-Photofile-Photograph-C10107044.jpeg

http://www.nndb.com/people/573/000026495/ronsanto03.jpg http://www.cubshub.com/postimages/pictures/291.jpg

IRISHDODGER
02-27-2007, 06:56 PM
It looked like Santo & Hodges just missed out...what a shame. Growing up in the 70s-80s, I am suprised the following haven't been closer to getting in: Jim Rice, Dave Parker, Steve Garvey, Dale Murphy, Jack Morris, Dave Concepcion, Bert Blyleven, Andre Dawson, etc. Not saying all the aforementioned are shoo-ins, but all were pernial all-starts w/ major awards &/or records attached to their resume. Just food for thought.

GoshenGipper
02-27-2007, 09:58 PM
Santo was the closest and he recieved 70% of the vote. Last year he was 8 votes short and this year he fell 5% short of the required 75%. I know that he orignially really wanted to get in, and I'm sure he still does, but he has said what he really wanted was for the Cubs to retire his number which they recently did. He always felt that he would have to get into the HoF for the Cubs to retire his number.

IRISHDODGER
02-28-2007, 09:19 AM
Santo was the closest and he recieved 70% of the vote. Last year he was 8 votes short and this year he fell 5% short of the required 75%. I know that he orignially really wanted to get in, and I'm sure he still does, but he has said what he really wanted was for the Cubs to retire his number which they recently did. He always felt that he would have to get into the HoF for the Cubs to retire his number.

3rd base is the least represented position in the HoF. I don't understand why Santo isn't amongst the elite (at least post 1900). Of the top of my head the only 3B I can think of in the HoF are: Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt, George Kell, Eddie Mathews, George Brett & most recently, Wade Boggs. I guess the combination of power/avg at the plate & the necessary defense to play the hot corner makes it harder to get in. Like I said, you could make a case for Ken Boyer & Joe Torre (both 3B), too. Remember Torre was a converted catcher & led the league in hitting in 1970(?) as well as being named MVP. His career numbers are impressive as well. Being a borderline HoF player, he'll probably get in based on managerial career

jiggafini19
02-28-2007, 11:27 AM
Jim Rice, Dave Parker, Steve Garvey, Dale Murphy, Jack Morris, Dave Concepcion, Bert Blyleven, Andre Dawson, etc.

Of this group, I'd only vote Blylevan in if it were my ballot. I'd get Gossage in there, too.

Third basemen in the HOF:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&3B.htm

Upcoming First Timers on future ballots: (Bold = My opinion)

2008: Brady Anderson, Andy Benes, Delino DeShields, Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Morgan, Robb Nen, Tim Raines, Greg Swindell, Randy Velarde, Mark Wohlers

2009: Steve Avery, Jay Bell, John Burkett, David Cone, Mike Bordick, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Denny Neagle, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams, Mike Williams

2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Rod Beck, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros,Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Shane Reynolds, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile

2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Mike Hampton, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Hideo Nomo, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Troy Percival, Benito Santiago, Sammy Sosa, Ugueth Urbina, Larry Walker

2012: Bill Mueller, Tim Salmon, Tim Worrell

IRISHDODGER
02-28-2007, 04:12 PM
Of this group, I'd only vote Blylevan in if it were my ballot. I'd get Gossage in there, too.

Third basemen in the HOF:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&3B.htm

Upcoming First Timers on future ballots: (Bold = My opinion)

2008: Brady Anderson, Andy Benes, Delino DeShields, Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Morgan, Robb Nen, Tim Raines, Greg Swindell, Randy Velarde, Mark Wohlers

2009: Steve Avery, Jay Bell, John Burkett, David Cone, Mike Bordick, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Denny Neagle, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams, Mike Williams

2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Rod Beck, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros,Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Shane Reynolds, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile

2011: Wilson Alvarez, Carlos Baerga, Jeff Bagwell, Bret Boone, Kevin Brown, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Marquis Grissom, Mike Hampton, Al Leiter, Tino Martinez, Raul Mondesi, Hideo Nomo, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Troy Percival, Benito Santiago, Sammy Sosa, Ugueth Urbina, Larry Walker

2012: Bill Mueller, Tim Salmon, Tim Worrell

I agree w/ everyone of your selections. Players listed that I though were on their way until their career took a nosedive are: Larry Walker, Sosa, Juan Gonzales, Fred McGriff, Matt Williams, Mo Vaughn & Tim Raines. Most of the aforementioned were done in by injuries.

As far as players on the current ballot, Blyleven is the last of that group that I would choose, although he's still worthy. I think Rice is being punished for his treatment of the media. Parker is being punished for the cocaine scandal of the late '70s. Morris was the winningest pitcher in the 1980s & a helluva clutch pitcher in the postseason incl 3 World Series titles w/ 3 different teams. Concepcion was a perennial all-star before Ozzie Smith hit his prime + Concepcion was a great hitter w/ a great glove for a SS which was rare before the Ripkens & ARods came along. Garvey is the NL ironman after surpassing HoFer, Billy Williams. He was a perenial AS incl. 2 AS MVPs, 1974 NL MVP, 1984 NLCS MVP, clutch post season performer, gold glover at 1st base (not bad for a guy 5'9"), had over 200 hits in 6 out of 7 seasons. I think Parker, Garvey & Rice were 3 of the best all-around hitters in their prime (late 70s-early 80s). Pre-steroid era, these guys put up league leading production #s w/ BAs at or above .300. Rice & Parker both challenged for the Triple Crown in '77. I thought Murphy & Dawson were shoo-ins. Murphy played on some horrible Braves teams yet remained among the league's elite hitters...not bad for a converted catcher. He had back-to-back NL MVP in '82-'83 and was just an HR or 2 short of 400. Just my opinion, unfortunately for them their fate will lie w/ the Veteran's Committee if not now very soon.

ACamp1900
03-01-2007, 06:41 PM
They killed Buck O'Neil last year IMO... The best spokesmen for the game for DECADES and they don't let him in... last year of all years, when multiple persons from the negro leagues are inducted... the HOF is losing it's luster to me...

IRISHDODGER
03-03-2007, 01:24 AM
They killed Buck O'Neil last year IMO... The best spokesmen for the game for DECADES and they don't let him in... last year of all years, when multiple persons from the negro leagues are inducted... the HOF is losing it's luster to me...

You got that right. The tragedy is that he'll probably get in sooner or later (deservedly so) but he's since passed on & won't get to soak in the thrill of induction. But it's not like his stats, feats or contributions got better over the last few years. Buck O'Neill was one of the good guys & represents what baseball should be about but has seemed to forgotten. He was a pioneer as a player, a coach, a scout & an ambassador of the game.

jiggafini19
03-09-2007, 03:04 PM
Best Buck O'Neill story:

He's at his locker getting changed when he hears the crack of the bat during BP, only he's never heard the crack of the bat quite like this before.

He darts out to the field, full sprint, and it is JOSH GIBSON at the plate taking BP, hitting bombs out of the park. This was the first time O'Neill had ever seen Gibson.

Suddenly, everyone stops looking at Gibson and they're staring at O'Neill. He can't figure out why for a few seconds and then it dawns on him:

He's in nothing but a jock strap and socks.

IRISHDODGER
03-09-2007, 10:43 PM
What do you think about these guys as HOF candidates for the Veteran's Committee to consider: Luis Tiant, Ron Guidry, Maury Wills, Dom DiMaggio, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson &, of course, Pete Rose.

nd1
03-09-2007, 11:41 PM
I agree with yall that buck o'neil should be in the hall. It's just bad thats it going to take him passing that he finally gets in. he has done alot for basball and done it with the upmost respect for the game.


how can goose gossage(probably misspelled) not be in there. he was dominating when he played the game and you didn't have all these steroids going around back then. all the players these days are breaking all these records that was put up by some of the greatest in the game by using these steroids and it just a shame.

ACamp1900
03-11-2007, 12:05 AM
What do you think about these guys as HOF candidates for the Veteran's Committee to consider: Luis Tiant, Ron Guidry, Maury Wills, Dom DiMaggio, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson &, of course, Pete Rose.

I don't see any of those getting in... MAYBE wills and of course Rose, but I don't see it happening from the standpoint of the V committee

jiggafini19
03-13-2007, 02:59 PM
What do you think about these guys as HOF candidates for the Veteran's Committee to consider: Luis Tiant, Ron Guidry, Maury Wills, Dom DiMaggio, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson &, of course, Pete Rose.

None.