Go Back   Irish Envy | Notre Dame Football Discussion > Play Like A Champion Today > Notre Dame Football
Front Page Forums REGISTER NOW! Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Live Chat Game Arcade Varsity Club

Welcome to IrishEnvy.com! Founded in September of 2004, IrishEnvy.com has grown into the premiere web portal on the Internet for mature and intelligent Notre Dame Fighting Irish athletics discussion!

You are currently viewing our boards as a Guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our FREE online community, you will have access to post and respond to discussions, communicate privately with other members, and access many other special features.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely FREE, so join the IrishEnvy.com Community today! If you have any problems with the registration process, please contact support and we will assist you.

If you already have an IrishEnvy.com membership account but forgot the username and/or password, use our password recovery tool to access your account information.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2012, 11:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
connor_in
Oh Yeeaah!!!
 
connor_in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 1,131
Cash: 160,270.76
Bank: 1,660,488.85
Total Bankroll: 1,820,759.61
Donate
connor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond repute

I could not get the Aggies forum link to work or find that thread in the rest of the forum.

I did read the comments on the article's site and enjoyed the laughs. I liked the part you guys listed where they say manti isn't even the best LB or D player out there based on stats, but you can show JFF (I take it the 1st F is for a rude term for copulation?) isn't even the best QB based on stats either. Then they rip on schedule, but but any rating system that does not include "# of SEC schools played" ND's has been shown to be tougher (computer rankings & # of bowl eligible teams played against...much less the wins and losses of the team of the respective players). Another item I picked up on was the integrity aspect. JFF fans throw out some interesting arguments on that: "Bush/Newton" neither of which was shown legally to have done anything wrong at the time of the voting...not only has JFF been shown to have done something legally wrong already, but when Bush was shown to have done something wrong, the award was taken back (vacated); someone even threw out the ND situation that led to the suicide of a student like something not involving the player up for the award automatically discounts him...wild!; and then they even proposed that IF Manti had had been in the same situation it would have been swept under the rug...apparently that guy never heard of our (at the time) starting QB.

You can play with statistics til the cows come home and prove anything ("there are lies, d*mn lies, and then there are statistics"). So you start throwing those around and you can make pretty much any point you want. However, at the end of the day, most people would prefer the W to any moral victory (unless you are a fantasy football player). Also, in those games that were the most challenging, how did you play overall? I giggled at the few posters that said something to the effect of well, look at JFF's other 9 games...I still bet Navy and BC would kick the crap out of the FCS teams and even a couple of the down scale FBS teams TAMU played where he racked up pinball numbers. On other sites, when someone brings up "system QB" since their coach has a history of it, the JFF fans discount it saying, nope, our guy runs a lot too! My response has been two things...why does he have to if he has such a great arm and so what? He is the one who has the ball and makes the final decision, so if he pulls it down and runs who cares especially against the weaker teams. Why does him using his feet discount the idea of a system QB especially in the face of his coach's past.

Thanks for the link to the great read and the fun comments section!
__________________
Fan since Vegas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!
connor_in is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old 12-06-2012, 11:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
phork
Raining On Your Parade
 
phork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,418
Cash: 49,967.86
Bank: 7,013,665,852.54
Total Bankroll: 7,013,715,820.40
Donate
phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!phork should be giving advice to Kelly!
Detroit Tigers Boston Celtics Detroit Lions Montreal Canadiens Notre Dame Manchester United England




Quote:
Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
No, what he is saying (I think) is that those who feel that Manti shouldn't win the award because it's not clear that he is even the best player at his position (although the Butkus award now says different), won't bring up the fact that it's not clear that Manziel is the best QB in the country, either. It's called hypocrisy.
Exactly. People do it all the time. The very argument you use to justify your side works completely against you from the other side.

Manziel isn't in the Top15 for passing effeciency.
#20 in yards per game passing.

I suppose I could go on, but whats done is done. Pulling for the blue hairs to do what they do best, and stiff the freshman.
phork is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 11:16 AM   #17 (permalink)
Kingbish01
Freshman
 
Kingbish01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 875
Cash: 150,054,795.17
Bank: 18,536,727.39
Total Bankroll: 168,591,522.56
Donate
Kingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond reputeKingbish01 has a reputation beyond repute
Atlanta Braves Atlanta Hawks Pittsburgh Steelers Pittsburgh Penguins Notre Dame

That was one great article you wrote Irishkel93
Kingbish01 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
rtrn2glory
Team MVP
 
rtrn2glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,083
Cash: 701,271,700.86
Bank: 0.00
Total Bankroll: 701,271,700.86
Donate
rtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of informationrtrn2glory is a fountain of information
Boston Red Sox Chicago Bears Notre Dame


Quote:
Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
No, what he is saying (I think) is that those who feel that Manti shouldn't win the award because it's not clear that he is even the best player at his position (although the Butkus award now says different), won't bring up the fact that it's not clear that Manziel is the best QB in the country, either. It's called hypocrisy.
gotcha...thanks!!
__________________
yes i'm superstitious...if you don't block and tackle, that's bad luck.....Marv Levy
rtrn2glory is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 03:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
UHCoogs
Waterboy
 
UHCoogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pearland Texas
Posts: 23
Cash: 455.72
Bank: 0.00
Total Bankroll: 455.72
Donate
UHCoogs is a jewel in the roughUHCoogs is a jewel in the roughUHCoogs is a jewel in the roughUHCoogs is a jewel in the rough

Why doesn't Manziel get the system QB label? When Case Keenum had just as good or better numbers in some categories and did not even get invited because he was labeled a system QB. When He had the same coaches and scheme as Manziel.

Go Teo good luck ND in the Championship game.
UHCoogs is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
IrishLax
Cooler than ACamp
 
IrishLax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 10,735
Cash: 8,853.30
Bank: 170,854,490,761.82
Total Bankroll: 170,854,499,615.12
Donate
IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!IrishLax should be giving advice to Kelly!
Washington Nationals Washington Redskins Washington Capitals Notre Dame




Quote:
Originally Posted by UHCoogs View Post
Why doesn't Manziel get the system QB label? When Case Keenum had just as good or better numbers in some categories and did not even get invited because he was labeled a system QB. When He had the same coaches and scheme as Manziel.

Go Teo good luck ND in the Championship game.
So true.... and tanks to the guys at ESPN for coming up with these numbers... albeit it would've been nice a couple weeks ago:

Close-game numbers don't favor Manziel - Stats & Info Blog - ESPN

Manziel < Keenum... and only gets credit because they beat Alabama. His numbers all come from running up the score on inferior opponents.
IrishLax is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 04:18 PM   #21 (permalink)
connor_in
Oh Yeeaah!!!
 
connor_in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 1,131
Cash: 160,270.76
Bank: 1,660,488.85
Total Bankroll: 1,820,759.61
Donate
connor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond reputeconnor_in has a reputation beyond repute

Quote:
Originally Posted by UHCoogs View Post
Why doesn't Manziel get the system QB label? When Case Keenum had just as good or better numbers in some categories and did not even get invited because he was labeled a system QB. When He had the same coaches and scheme as Manziel.

Go Teo good luck ND in the Championship game.
I asked that same question in an ESPN comments section back a week or two ago. The response I got was "Of course he is not a system QB...look at his rushing totals!" Now, not being an SEC-hag, I must admit that this really didn't make any sense to me that a system QB couldn't pull the ball down and run if he was in trouble/had an opening, but this guy seemed to think that his simple comment closed the argument once and for all.


FYI...I still don't agree with him and still agree with you
__________________
Fan since Vegas Ferguson and Jerome Heavens!
connor_in is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © 2004 - 2012 IrishEnvy.com. All Rights Reserved. All material on this Notre Dame Fighting Irish discussion forum is strictly for entertainment purposes only. This site and any pages within are in no way affiliated with the University of Notre Dame, the Big East Conference or the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Any images, copyrights, or trademarks used on this site are used under the "Fair Use Provision" of the Copyright Act for purposes of comment, criticism, and news reporting. SEO by vBSEO 3.7.4

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29