Go Back   Irish Envy | Notre Dame Football Discussion > Play Like A Champion Today > Notre Dame Football
Front Page Forums REGISTER NOW! Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Live Chat Game Arcade Varsity Club

Welcome to IrishEnvy.com! Founded in September of 2004, IrishEnvy.com has grown into the premiere web portal on the Internet for mature and intelligent Notre Dame Fighting Irish athletics discussion!

You are currently viewing our boards as a Guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our FREE online community, you will have access to post and respond to discussions, communicate privately with other members, and access many other special features.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely FREE, so join the IrishEnvy.com Community today! If you have any problems with the registration process, please contact support and we will assist you.

If you already have an IrishEnvy.com membership account but forgot the username and/or password, use our password recovery tool to access your account information.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-09-2009, 11:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
LindseyNelson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cash: 0
Bank: 0
Total Bankroll: 0
Donate
Case closed on roughing the snapper

Much debate has arisen among fans and media over a roughing the snapper call made against Notre Dame. Both coaches have even weighed in on the subject. Coach Weiss said he believes the call was an "error." Coach Sarkisian agreed with the call, saying the violation was "blatant."

My review of the official rule and approved rulings, in light of available video evidence, confirms that the call was correct. Indeed, the video evidence provides textbook illustration for proper enforcement of the rule, and should be used as instructional guidance for all referees.

Rule 9-1-2-o states: "When a team is in scrimmage kick formation, a defensive player may not initiate contact with the snapper until one second has elapsed after the snap (A.R. 9-1-2-XVIII-XX)."

Approved Ruling 9-1-2-XVIII gives the following illustration of what is NOT a violation of the rule:

"Immediately after the snap, with Team A in an obvious scrimmage kick formation, noseguard B71 attempts to “shoot the gap” between the snapper and the adjacent lineman. B71’s initial legal contact is with the lineman next to the snapper. RULING: Legal. Incidental contact with the snapper after this initial legal contact is not a foul"

Watch video of the Huskies' PAT after Locker's touchdown run at 10:10 of the first quarter and you will see Irish NG Ian Williams #95 penetrating into the 'A' gap. In this particular instance I would agree with what Weis said: ". . . It didn't look to me like he was trying to go through the [snapper's] helmet."

However, if you compare that PAT with the roughing the snapper call made on the Huskies FG at 5:35 of the 4th quarter you can clearly see the difference between penetrating the 'A' gap and a full on bull rush by a 295 pound nose guard trying to go right through Huskies' long snapper #49 Danny Morovick.

Approved Ruling 9-1-2-XIX gives the following example of a proper call of roughing the snapper:

"Team A is in an obvious scrimmage kick formation. Immediately after the snap, nose guard B55 charges directly at the snapper, contacts him, and drives him backward. The ball is snapped to an upback three yards behind the scrimmage line or to the potential kicker, who instead runs with or passes the ball. RULING: Foul. Penalty—15 yards and automatic first down. The snapper may not be contacted until one second has elapsed after the snap when Team A is in a scrimmage kick formation"

The point of this approved ruling is to demonstrate that the snapper is protected whenever in kick formation, even if it turns out to be a fake kick. The key language is the phrase: "Immediately after the snap, nose guard ... charges directly at the snapper, contacts him, and drives him backward."

Weis might have a case for publicly criticizing the official's call had there been any inconsistency in the enforcement of the rule. There was no inconsistency. I have reviewed every FG and PAT by both teams. The rule was consistently enforced throughout the game and the call was only made on the one occasion where it was, as Sarkisian put it, "blatant."

In several instances the Huskies' NG lined up on the Irish long snapper's right shoulder--just like the Irish NG did when the roughing call was made--but the difference is that the Huskies' NG did not try to go through the snapper. The clearest example is on the Irish 21 yd FG at 12:51 of the 3rd quarter. This FG came at the same end zone where the 4th quarter roughing call was made and the NBC camera captures the action from behind the goal posts in both instances, giving identical perspectives for comparison. You see the Huskies' NG lined up on the Irish long snapper's right shoulder. At the snap he tries to penetrate the A-gap and the Irish long snapper is free to stand up and push him to the side. Once again, compare that to the Huskies' Morovick immediately fighting for his life against a full on bull rush where you can see the real potential for a whiplash injury as his head snaps back violently on impact.

Coach Sarkisian said it was "blatant." One could make a case for calling it "flagrant" which would have required disqualification of the Notre Dame nose guard under Rule 9-1-1.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Don't like this ad? Register to make it go away!

Old 10-09-2009, 01:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
wpchief4
Waterboy
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 29
Cash: 518.18
Bank: 168,828.01
Total Bankroll: 169,346.19
Donate
wpchief4 is on a distinguished road

it wasn't a PAT attempt, it was field goal. Besides how come its never called besides against ND. another case of a conference trying to screw ND
wpchief4 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 01:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
AlumniHall98
Walk-On
 
AlumniHall98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 103
Cash: 16,846.80
Bank: 0.00
Total Bankroll: 16,846.80
Donate
AlumniHall98 is just really niceAlumniHall98 is just really niceAlumniHall98 is just really niceAlumniHall98 is just really niceAlumniHall98 is just really niceAlumniHall98 is just really niceAlumniHall98 is just really nice

I'm sorry, but can anyone honestly say they have EVER heard that call made before? I am certain that this rule is violated all the time, and forgive me for not being a purist here, but there is NO WAY that call can be made at THAT point in the game!!! I mean, that was a call that essentially gives Washington the football game, if not for our stout defensive stance on the goal line. You just cannot make that call at that time, especially on a penalty that is SO rarely called, I bet most of the posters on this site had never even heard of it before. Just ludicrous, I don't care WHAT the rule book says!!
__________________
Alumni Hall will wake her dead...we will sing her requiem.
AlumniHall98 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 01:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
tko
I am Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,767
Cash: 30.73
Bank: 5,080,833,684.64
Total Bankroll: 5,080,833,715.37
Donate
tko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of informationtko is a fountain of information
Philadelphia Phillies Notre Dame



the coach of Notre Dame football is Charlie Weis. anyone know Weiss? Walt Weiss used to play shortstop for the Oakland A's.
tko is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 01:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
kmoose
Varsity Club Member
 
kmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 3,111
Cash: 12,627.81
Bank: 1,030,516,264.67
Total Bankroll: 1,030,528,892.48
Donate
kmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the communitykmoose is a leader in the community
Cleveland Indians Pittsburgh Steelers Notre Dame



Quote:
Originally Posted by wpchief4 View Post
it wasn't a PAT attempt, it was field goal. Besides how come its never called besides against ND. another case of a conference trying to screw ND
The rule doesn't specify a PAT, PAT was used as an illustration of what is a violation of the rule. Any scrimmage kick (PAT, FG, punt) falls under this rule.
kmoose is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 01:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
no.1IrishFan
Giggity Giggity Goo!
 
no.1IrishFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,627
Cash: 440.33
Bank: 1,131.33
Total Bankroll: 1,571.66
Donate
no.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond reputeno.1IrishFan has a reputation beyond repute
Tampa Bay Devil Rays Miami Dolphins Notre Dame


The point is that if you watch 10 pat's or field goals, I bet it happens 9-10 times. There is no effing way you make that call at that point in the game unless the officials are trying to screw you!
__________________
I'm the guy on the buffalo.
no.1IrishFan is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 02:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
GO IRISH!!!
Wait...what?
 
GO IRISH!!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,763
Cash: 18,824,082.91
Bank: 222,950,044.54
Total Bankroll: 241,774,127.44
Donate
GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!GO IRISH!!! should be giving advice to Kelly!
Los Angeles Kings Notre Dame




I would love to hear from guys like Jordan Cowart or Braxton Cave about how often opponents wait 1 second after the snap until initiating contact with the snapper.

This is a bullshit call that probably happens all the time, but is rarely called. It's like a traveling call in the NBA nowadays. Everyone does it, but it only gets called a few times.
__________________
"I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson
GO IRISH!!! is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Copyright © 2004 - 2012 IrishEnvy.com. All Rights Reserved. All material on this Notre Dame Fighting Irish discussion forum is strictly for entertainment purposes only. This site and any pages within are in no way affiliated with the University of Notre Dame, the Big East Conference or the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Any images, copyrights, or trademarks used on this site are used under the "Fair Use Provision" of the Copyright Act for purposes of comment, criticism, and news reporting. SEO by vBSEO 3.7.4

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29