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Old 01-14-2017, 01:23 PM   #904 (permalink)
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Old 01-14-2017, 02:23 PM   #905 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Bluth View Post
On the ACA, they succeeded in removing the vital public/government option. So, at worst it's a draw.

But to IrishinSyria's point, we'll get to see how the GOP handles covering pre-existing conditions without a health insurance mandate. Last I read, they want to remove the insurance mandate but allow insurance companies to charge more if you haven't been covered for X number of years. So, six in one hand and a half-dozen in the other.

I'm not sure what your point is on TPP. The Republican establishment supports it. I'm missing your point. But anyway, it isn't happening. And, to IrishinSyria's point, we get to see how the GOP deals with Asian countries scratching their heads at an America that refused to set international trade standards in America's image only to pass that responsibility to...China. I think there's a fair chance that Trump's lack of deal-making on TPP will be his most harmful long-term impact.

I guess general a party of opposition stops things, not removes things. So, defunding DHS and Planned Parenthood (geez, talk about Ways To Drive Out The Women Vote In 2020) aren't really things we should judge opposition on.

To expand on IrishinSyria's point, it's not like the biggest domestic issues in the US are going to change. For example, factories will still be replacing jobs with automation, health insurance premiums are going to continue to rise, college tuition is going to continue to rise. I mean, does anyone actually expect anything the GOP does to cause is reduction in health care premiums?! Or bring down the cost of college tuition? Or create jobs for high school-educated Americans at a faster clip than can be automated? I have my doubts...
Interesting, polls show that Americans think jobs numbers are getting better, (Like in November and December.) Americans think when polled that the number of new jobs created is increasing, where though the numbers are still positive, the rate of new job creation is drastically slowing. Why is this?

Because Donald Trump has been giving job creation a megaphone with his media exposure. Donald Trump says that he is saving jobs here or creating jobs there, and people believe him. This is incredibly significant. (Please note I am not expressing this as a value judgement.)

But it is interesting as it is an outgrowth of the Trump campaign. So Donald continues to "interpret" things, and the public continues to "buy in." This is one aspect of the next four years that fascinates me. What will happen? Will this basic (propaganda) communication continue? If it does, and it is at odds with other independent numbers what will happen?

You know, we've been all through the I, Bogtrotter, attacks people, and 'all you that have a problem with me,' of course don't, and we have been round and round about the issues, ideology, and everything else. But that is just too far from what is important. I don't need to call Donald Trump names. And I do have the right, and I think correctly liken his public and political actions to Adolph Hitler. I think my comparison was pretty objective and well thought out. But, of course that doesn't mean I think he is Hitler.

So all of you who can only understand things in such narrow terms, here is a more in depth view of what I believe is happening. It isn't good for either 'side,' for those of you who recognize sides. It certainly isn't good for our country.

But a couple (more) important points for everyone to consider :
  • The polls are there and recorded. Most modern pollsters track a winning presidential candidate during the transition process. Trumps numbers are in. His high is 44% and his low is 37% approval rating. To give a comparison, in the last two presidential elections where there was a change of administrations, Bush scored just above 60% approval, and Obama scored something stratospheric, around 80%.
    • Bush took over after a chaotic series of recounts and court cases, to protest in the street. He clearly won with less than a 50% margin of the vote, and he still had awesome transition numbers.
    • Obama took over and had to deal with incredible prejudices against him, while the economy was in free-fall, when trust in the government was at a low ebb, and he scored with rock-star numbers.
  • The kind of numbers Trump is now generating is significant for a couple of reasons. There is no overwhelming support for him, no populist movement. These transition numbers kind of set a first two year ceiling for the incoming president. And of course an incoming president has two years to make his case, and get started what he wants to get done. We are already starting to see this effect. Paul Ryan clearly stated Trump isn't getting his deportation force. Congress is so set on repealing ethics legislation, and the ACA that the 'wall' funding is going to be pushed back.
  • The question is, 'How long is it going to take for some voters to catch on?' The 2016 election seems to be divided into four important groups, the largest, anti-Trump voters, the second largest, anti-Clinton voters (of which a significant number were pro-Trump voters, the third group,) and the fourth, smallest, and most important, disaffected voters. 2016 was an election of voter suppression.

    The key was it wasn't just minorities or poor that was suppressed. Interestingly enough, in swing states white, particularly better educated white voters voted in lower percentages than in recent elections. The white numbers were bolstered by less educated whites, whose numbers were near record levels. This is where Donald Trump won the election, but it doesn't bode well for him continuing to win.

    And of course that really has been recognized in this thread, because of course, that is the humor behind all the we need a terrorist-attack to bring the country together again. I will admit I am motivated by fear, because I solidly believe that once his people realize that, we will get one.
  • The next question is, when will the Republican orthodoxy, the Republican conservative element, and the Trump Administration start to turn on each other. Everyone has their own agenda. Trump wants to be the best at everything that God ever created. Some Republicans want to roll back women's rights, gut PP etc. And others want to rape Social Security. If you look that the overlapping agenda of all these groups, that have started their attempts at fulfilling their agenda's, everyone is proceeding at the speed of light, on all fronts.

    Granted, the Democrats are pitiful opposition, but the Republicans (collectively) think they can reverse or destroy seven or eight programs, plans, or entities, all that have a significant majority of American's approval! Bush with popularity, the voting majority, and a popular (at the time) war behind him, got absolutely trucked in is efforts to overhaul (rip-off, rape, whatever) social security!

I will bet anyone who his a real Trump supporter mega v bucks, that the harder he, and Republicans try to change these things (please note none of them are really about draining any swamp) the more badly and quicker they will fail.

Were I the opposition, I would stop Trump's bad appointees, his major attacks on good and well run programs, give him enough rope to hang himself, and see him in 2018. I would be recruiting candidates now.
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Old 01-14-2017, 02:33 PM   #906 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phgreek View Post
Yea...I think they may have wanted to be obstructionist...but rarely had an opportunity to be much more than a speed bump.

The only thing liberals didn't get as they wanted was immigration reform...

Good or bad...the situation Trump ascended to power in was largely what liberals created...shrug.

It appears their choice is to say it wasn't a liberal created environment...or it was the best situation we've had in this country in decades...

Seems like this election, and many congressional and state level elections since 2010 or so tended to reject liberal leadership...and I must assume liberal policy makers, if not entirely repudiating liberal policy.

They still have that demographic thing in their favor...just ask them. So I guess the play is, wait it out, and hope people don't improve their lot in life until then?
Again, I don't think that Trump's ascent was due to anything but lying and misinformation. If I am correct, we don't even need to argue about it, because it will be clear soon enough.

And.

Anyone who counts votes can tell you that there were a lot more (%) Republican's for immigration reform in the senate and the house before and during the Obama administration, but that Republicans sacrificed all of that for taking the obstructionist route.

Anyone on the inside in Washington will tell you the same thing. There was incredible tension within the Republican party over whether they could or should sacrifice meaningful immigration reform.

I am telling you, that the elections since the House districts were redrawn this last time aren't about any ideological jihad. They were about a brilliant plan to put the right candidates in front of the right people the formed the right majorities, in the right places.
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Old 01-14-2017, 02:47 PM   #907 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drayer54 View Post
While some sheep may follow this clown still, I am happy to see her still holding the reigns to the democratic party. She has done an excellent job keeping the house red and her legacy insignificant.
Nice language! At least you didn't diminish her further because she is a woman.

But did you read the article, and follow her logic point by point?


Because if you did I want you to tell me where she was wrong.

I mean with actual facts and numbers.

Because only two Presidents in the history of the United States of America have been able to outspend FDR, (of course he had WWII and the Great Depression to deal with.)

Those presidents were : (#2) Ronald Reagan; and (# 1) George W. Bush. And when GWBush left office, the economy was in free-fall, I mean he even tried spending even more money, but he didn't have a clue as to what to do.

Now, tell me where I am being unfair.

And tell me why I should attack someone I consider an abysmally poor leader like Nancy Pelosi, when you are using her poor leadership skills, and obvious avarice and greed to try to negate points she is making, when she is expressing (basically the truth) to make her point?

She does her own little b.s. game, but you totally assassinate the truth, and try to cover bunches of that with your little name calling escapades.

In the final run you are both taking money out of my pocket? So pardon my if I have a bigger problem with your dishonesty, and thieving than hers!
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Old 01-14-2017, 02:58 PM   #908 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDHeysus View Post
this is what I mean by out of touch....current protests in society should not be confused with the protests that took place in the 60's. The 2 situations (current, and past protests) do not equate. The snowflakes out there today, who cannot answer why they are protesting are not the same as ppl in the 60's protesting for civil rights/against vietnam (who were very informed, and very 'tuned in').

Current protests are being funded.

I think its dangerous for anyone in government who cannot see the difference, hence my 'out of touch' comment.
Really?

By whom?

I really want to know.

I was there in the 60's. Though I wasn't doing a lot of protesting, I had a particularly good view of it all. I am surprised that there hasn't been more protesting since.

And I am hoping we get back to the way it was in the 60's. In my opinion, Americans have been too big of pussies for way too long. The quality of political leadership we've had since that time has been ridiculously poor, on either side of the isle!
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Old 01-14-2017, 03:20 PM   #909 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmoose View Post
No, they haven't. They failed to keep the ACA from becoming law; they failed to defund DHS and Planned Parenthood; and they failed to block the TPP as well. I'm not saying that I favor them succeeding in any of these endeavors, but liberals have been trying to use hyperbole to paint this picture that the GOP has practically stopped the government from doing anything.
Generally agree but they did hold strong not allowing Obama to appoint Scalia's replacement. Maybe the most important thing they did and I can't believe those inept idiots pulled it off. Big win for conservatives and definitely played a role in trumps election.
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Old 01-14-2017, 04:37 PM   #910 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogtrotter07 View Post
Really?

By whom?

I really want to know.

I was there in the 60's. Though I wasn't doing a lot of protesting, I had a particularly good view of it all. I am surprised that there hasn't been more protesting since.

And I am hoping we get back to the way it was in the 60's. In my opinion, Americans have been too big of pussies for way too long. The quality of political leadership we've had since that time has been ridiculously poor, on either side of the isle!
if you can be objective, you can find out. I won't tell you, its all there for YOU to find out.....or not. It's doesn't matter to me, I'm not trying to change heads or hearts. Facts don't care about feelings.
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