Mandarich admit to using Steroids.

[TheMightyQuinn10]

lol

[SteveM]

NDM,

Thanks for starting this post. I've been watching this whole steroid thing for years. A couple of points:

Mandarich was listed as a "Specimen" when he came out at 310. People were amazed at his size. Other guys were weighing in between 270 and 285. With 290+ still a little unusual.

Today, everybody is over 300 lbs! If Mandarich required roids to get to 310, how are today's guys doing it?

I played high school football after Lombardi and Hank Stram had regularized year round training and especially weight lifting. So the guys then were doing what the guys now are doing routine and diet wise (heavy lifting, protein and other supplements.)

But the biggest linemen then were coming out of high school between 235 and 255. (We sent an All-State defensive tackle to ND and he weighed 235 at his HS graduation.)

High school players are entering college at 280!

It's obvious that track and field is awash with dope and few are getting caught. Unfortunately, probably football too. Guys are just coming in too big, too young.

Stevem

[NDMontana]

Originally Posted by SteveM

NDM,

Thanks for starting this post. I've been watching this whole steroid thing for years. A couple of points:

Mandarich was listed as a "Specimen" when he came out at 310. People were amazed at his size. Other guys were weighing in between 270 and 285. With 290+ still a little unusual.

Today, everybody is over 300 lbs! If Mandarich required roids to get to 310, how are today's guys doing it?

I played high school football after Lombardi and Hank Stram had regularized year round training and especially weight lifting. So the guys then were doing what the guys now are doing routine and diet wise (heavy lifting, protein and other supplements.)

But the biggest linemen then were coming out of high school between 235 and 255. (We sent an All-State defensive tackle to ND and he weighed 235 at his HS graduation.)

High school players are entering college at 280!

It's obvious that track and field is awash with dope and few are getting caught. Unfortunately, probably football too. Guys are just coming in too big, too young.

Stevem

I agree, there are some questions out there. I think that there are people using; you'd have to be naive to think otherwise. However, there has been an increase in our understanding of caloric intake and what kinds of foods will help you gain weight. In general, the average size of human beings has increased dramatically in the past 150 years.

In 1965 the average 17 year old weighed 149 lbs. compared to 166 lbs. today. Human beings, as a population, are an average of four inches taller than we were in 1860.

Our diets are packed with more nutrients (nutrients aren't necessarily a good thing) than they have ever been. Children are getting bigger and maturing faster than ever before. Hell, I've seen more and more girls w/ very....well....lets just say mature figures that are freshmen in high school.

Many studies indicate that women are attracted to taller men. When they mate it affects the genotype and so we are getting bigger. Of course you've still got to wonder about
6'5'' 315 lb. teenagers that can run the 40 yard dash in 4.5 seconds.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by NDMontana

I agree, there are some questions out there. I think that there are people using; you'd have to be naive to think otherwise. However, there has been an increase in our understanding of caloric intake and what kinds of foods will help you gain weight. In general, the average size of human beings has increased dramatically in the past 150 years.

In 1965 the average 17 year old weighed 149 lbs. compared to 166 lbs. today. Human beings, as a population, are an average of four inches taller than we were in 1860.

Our diets are packed with more nutrients (nutrients aren't necessarily a good thing) than they have ever been. Children are getting bigger and maturing faster than ever before. Hell, I've seen more and more girls w/ very....well....lets just say mature figures that are freshmen in high school.

Many studies indicate that women are attracted to taller men. When they mate it affects the genotype and so we are getting bigger. Of course you've still got to wonder about
6'5'' 315 lb. teenagers that can run the 40 yard dash in 4.5 seconds.

NDM,

Those are good points. But probably misleading. Kids weigh more because people generally are getting fatter. So you have to separate out that component and focus just on football players and other athletes.

The nutritional stuff has been around for years. Like I said, my guys were doing the protein shakes, vitamin supplements, what have you. And like everyone else we did at least 3 huge squares a day. What else is legally known/available now that wasn't then?

And women being attracted to taller men is a side issue. The DNA that makes a kid 6'3" is irrelevant. He's still 6'3". The question is, what makes him 275 when a 6'3'' kid of 30 years ago with substantially the same diet and exercise program was 230?

SteveM

[dre1919]

I blame High Fructose Corn Syrup, even thought the good folks in Iowa would like you to believe otherwise.

[WaveDomer]

Originally Posted by NDMontana

Our diets are packed with more nutrients (nutrients aren't necessarily a good thing) than they have ever been. Children are getting bigger and maturing faster than ever before. Hell, I've seen more and more girls w/ very....well....lets just say mature figures that are freshmen in high school.

I read this study, I think it was out of Purdue actually, that concluded girls were maturing earlier due to the lack of males in the household. Whether you buy it or not, it was a pretty interesting study.

There's definitely steroid use going on to some extent. But there are also a lot of other factors. I don't think it's one thing, more of a combination. Nutrition plans, exercise programs, how food is processed etc. I also think high school football is a lot more serious these days. People are always looking towards the next level. So high schools are getting more serious with weight training and conditioning.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by WaveDomer

I read this study, I think it was out of Purdue actually, that concluded girls were maturing earlier due to the lack of males in the household. Whether you buy it or not, it was a pretty interesting study.

There's definitely steroid use going on to some extent. But there are also a lot of other factors. I don't think it's one thing, more of a combination. Nutrition plans, exercise programs, how food is processed etc. I also think high school football is a lot more serious these days. People are always looking towards the next level. So high schools are getting more serious with weight training and conditioning.

WD,

Let me recap. We were already doing that when I was playing. We won a City Title in Philly one year. Played the game around December 10th. And then started "Winter Workouts" the week after Christmas vacation. So we had maybe 3 weeks off. And then transitioned into Summer Workouts before practice started.

And again, we were jamming the calories and the supplements and the vitamins. And nobody sized up like today's kids. There's just not enough marginal improvement left to explain how kids come out 50 pounds more solid.

SteveM.

P.S. I put "Winter Workouts" in quotes because football workouts were illegal. So the program was open to all students interested in "Coach B's Winter Conditioning Program" as it was announced over the P.A. Only for some reason, only football players showed up.