Objective Look at Charlie Weis - Page 2 - Notre Dame Football Discussion

**LOVEMYIRISH** · 05-13-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris324

Charlie Weis: Offensive Genius or Overrated Playcaller | Bleacher Report

Great article...a must read. This keeps it all in perspective. The author nailed it...

**SoCalDomer** · 05-13-2008, 01:19 PM

I agree. It actually turned out pretty objective.

**CurtisCandy** · 05-13-2008, 06:34 PM

I think the article was very fair.

I also believe it says a lot for Weis that he has turned over play-calling for the upcoming season to Offensive Coordinator, Mike Haywood. To me, this shows a lot of leadership in not letting ego get in the way of what he feels is honestly best for his team.

I don't believe that Charlie thinks he can't handle the play-calling. I simply think this allows him to not be spread quite so thin (alright, no girth jokes here please) and focus on more aspects of making our beloved Irish a contender again.

BDIrish4ever · 05-13-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurtisCandy

I think the article was very fair.

I also believe it says a lot for Weis that he has turned over play-calling for the upcoming season to Offensive Coordinator, Mike Haywood. To me, this shows a lot of leadership in not letting ego get in the way of what he feels is honestly best for his team.

I don't believe that Charlie thinks he can't handle the play-calling. I simply think this allows him to not be spread quite so thin (alright, no girth jokes here please) and focus on more aspects of making our beloved Irish a contender again.

Ditto!

**Legacy** · 05-13-2008, 08:08 PM

With all due respect to the author, the article is wordy, full of his personal biases, and lacks a complete analysis of Weis, the head coach. All of these plus a overweighting of his persona as an Offensive coach make this less than an objective assessment.
While some good points are made, I prefer any coach who has taken his team to BCS bowls 2 out of his first 3 years and who has restocked the Irish with speed, size and talent.

**LOVEMYIRISH** · 05-14-2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

With all due respect to the author, the article is wordy, full of his personal biases, and lacks a complete analysis of Weis, the head coach. All of these plus a overweighting of his persona as an Offensive coach make this less than an objective assessment.
While some good points are made, I prefer any coach who has taken his team to BCS bowls 2 out of his first 3 years and who has restocked the Irish with speed, size and talent.

Where was there bias?

Honestly man, I too love the fact that Weis got us to 9+ win seasons back to back. But let's not forget he delivered one of the worst seasons in ND's ENTIRE HISTORY. Not THE worst, but damn close.

**Legacy** · 05-14-2008, 11:32 AM

I would like to forget last season, but will be unable to. One characteristic I like about Charlie is how he will take responsibility including for last year.
Anyway, let me throw these out as possible biases in the article:
"Enter the 2007 season when the Fighting Irish offense simply imploded. As discussed here Weis made a bad problem worse by taking an extremely young team and installing a completely new offense. Not only did this move away from the strength of the team-it's under-used running attack-it also confused many young players thrust into first-time starting roles."
-The link at "here" in the article takes you to the same author's article last year in "Notre Dame Football Forum" in a review of the Georgia Tech game, where he criticizes the option running plays Weis put in for Demetrius Jones in the first half. The implication above is that Weis installed a new offense for the enitre 2007 season.

"In particular, the way Weis handled the quarterback situation was (at best) suspect, with two of the four quarterbacks vying for playing time subsequently transferring to other schools."
-Weis announced that after the Blue-Gold game in '07 that he would narrow the list of QBs from 4 to 2. He narrowed it to 3. He worked to get Frazier a transfer to UConn. Jones was upset that he was taken out of the Georgia Tech game, and saw diminishing opportunites with the coming of Clausen.

"As a playcaller Weis typically gets too creative when it isn’t necessary... Rather than stick with something basic and effective, he frequently tries to get cute or complicated. More often than not this backfires when something simple would have been effective."
-Sticking with something basic reminds me of the Willingham era. "Cute or complicated" and "more often than not backfires"? Examples? ND did win 19 of his first 25 games under Weis.

"Additionally, Weis' offenses are typically pass-first. While the play calling percentage is frequently near 50/50 run/pass, the run is not used as a "strike-first" weapon."
-Weis's offenses are about ball-control, keeping the defense off balance, and obtaining imbalances. I am not sure how the author wants Weis to develop the run as a "strike-first" weapon. Does he feel Weis is hampering ND's running game to pass?
And later..."He would also be better served listening to offensive coordinator Mike Haywood about the importance of an effective rushing attack."
- I guess he does.

"The lack of a significant running game also severely limits the effectiveness of Weis’ offense at the college level. Running the ball is the most effective way to win games at any level. Fewer things can go wrong on a running play than a passing play. Running plays require less precision and are easier to practice, master, execute, and perfect. Running the ball controls the clock, wears down defenses, takes pressure off the quarterback, and opens up the play-action passing game. "
- truisms.
- Was ND's failures last year Weis's choice to avoid the run or more that they could not establish the run until the end of the season?
-ND's Time of Possession went from almost 32 minutes a game in '06 to 29 minutes in '07.

"But he would be better served cutting out the fringes and focusing on motivating and development"
-The author implies certain subtractions in Weis's offensive game need to be made permanently. I feel it is relative. "fringes" were successful in Weis's first two years and will be in the future with a more experienced team than
'07. It seemed to me that Weis shortened the playbook last year, that when Sharpley was in Weis could run additional plays tailored to his experience.

The author has some good points. This is all I mean by biases.

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05-13-2008, 01:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
SoCalDomer Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Here I am Posts: 4,591 Cash: 26,314.82 Bank: 5,890.32 Total Bankroll: 32,205.14 Donate	I agree. It actually turned out pretty objective.

05-13-2008, 06:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
CurtisCandy Waterboy Join Date: May 2008 Location: Fonda, NY Posts: 36 Cash: 452.33 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 452.33 Donate	I think the article was very fair. I also believe it says a lot for Weis that he has turned over play-calling for the upcoming season to Offensive Coordinator, Mike Haywood. To me, this shows a lot of leadership in not letting ego get in the way of what he feels is honestly best for his team. I don't believe that Charlie thinks he can't handle the play-calling. I simply think this allows him to not be spread quite so thin (alright, no girth jokes here please) and focus on more aspects of making our beloved Irish a contender again.

05-13-2008, 08:08 PM	#12 (permalink)
Legacy Walk-On Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 125 Cash: 6,987.56 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,987.56 Donate	With all due respect to the author, the article is wordy, full of his personal biases, and lacks a complete analysis of Weis, the head coach. All of these plus a overweighting of his persona as an Offensive coach make this less than an objective assessment. While some good points are made, I prefer any coach who has taken his team to BCS bowls 2 out of his first 3 years and who has restocked the Irish with speed, size and talent.

05-14-2008, 11:32 AM	#14 (permalink)
Legacy Walk-On Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 125 Cash: 6,987.56 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,987.56 Donate	I would like to forget last season, but will be unable to. One characteristic I like about Charlie is how he will take responsibility including for last year. Anyway, let me throw these out as possible biases in the article: "Enter the 2007 season when the Fighting Irish offense simply imploded. As discussed here Weis made a bad problem worse by taking an extremely young team and installing a completely new offense. Not only did this move away from the strength of the team-it's under-used running attack-it also confused many young players thrust into first-time starting roles." -The link at "here" in the article takes you to the same author's article last year in "Notre Dame Football Forum" in a review of the Georgia Tech game, where he criticizes the option running plays Weis put in for Demetrius Jones in the first half. The implication above is that Weis installed a new offense for the enitre 2007 season. "In particular, the way Weis handled the quarterback situation was (at best) suspect, with two of the four quarterbacks vying for playing time subsequently transferring to other schools." -Weis announced that after the Blue-Gold game in '07 that he would narrow the list of QBs from 4 to 2. He narrowed it to 3. He worked to get Frazier a transfer to UConn. Jones was upset that he was taken out of the Georgia Tech game, and saw diminishing opportunites with the coming of Clausen. "As a playcaller Weis typically gets too creative when it isn’t necessary... Rather than stick with something basic and effective, he frequently tries to get cute or complicated. More often than not this backfires when something simple would have been effective." -Sticking with something basic reminds me of the Willingham era. "Cute or complicated" and "more often than not backfires"? Examples? ND did win 19 of his first 25 games under Weis. "Additionally, Weis' offenses are typically pass-first. While the play calling percentage is frequently near 50/50 run/pass, the run is not used as a "strike-first" weapon." -Weis's offenses are about ball-control, keeping the defense off balance, and obtaining imbalances. I am not sure how the author wants Weis to develop the run as a "strike-first" weapon. Does he feel Weis is hampering ND's running game to pass? And later..."He would also be better served listening to offensive coordinator Mike Haywood about the importance of an effective rushing attack." - I guess he does. "The lack of a significant running game also severely limits the effectiveness of Weis’ offense at the college level. Running the ball is the most effective way to win games at any level. Fewer things can go wrong on a running play than a passing play. Running plays require less precision and are easier to practice, master, execute, and perfect. Running the ball controls the clock, wears down defenses, takes pressure off the quarterback, and opens up the play-action passing game. " - truisms. - Was ND's failures last year Weis's choice to avoid the run or more that they could not establish the run until the end of the season? -ND's Time of Possession went from almost 32 minutes a game in '06 to 29 minutes in '07. "But he would be better served cutting out the fringes and focusing on motivating and development" -The author implies certain subtractions in Weis's offensive game need to be made permanently. I feel it is relative. "fringes" were successful in Weis's first two years and will be in the future with a more experienced team than '07. It seemed to me that Weis shortened the playbook last year, that when Sharpley was in Weis could run additional plays tailored to his experience. The author has some good points. This is all I mean by biases.

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