Give me reasons why the offense has sucked so badly ...

[johnnd05]

Well done, Moostache. One quick point on Sam Young: I take it he had a wrist injury at the start of the year, which may be part of the reason for his struggles so far.

[johnnd05]

Okay, so far I've got this list (in no particular order):

1. The schedule: no warm-up games; too many games on the road at the start of the season; all the easy opponents at the end of the year.
2. Poor recruiting: 'nuff said.
3. Poor position coaching: the offensive line is obviously the key example of this.
4. Too much hype: obviously Weis wasn't going to throw his players under the bus and say it was a rebuilding year, but did we have to believe him? We set the bar way too high with our expectations, and that put pressure on this team that they didn't need.
5. Too many distractions: e.g. Demetrius Jones's departure, but also the QB situation through the spring and summer.
6. Tentativeness: guys just look scared out there; they seem nervous to make mistakes.
7. Bad play-calling: I've argued that this is a bit overrated, but it can't be dismissed. In particular, the crazy scheming against GT and UM was obviously a mistake.
8. Poor pass-blocking: this doesn't pertain just to the linemen and tight ends, but also to the tailbacks and fullbacks. It goes far beyond problems with blitz pick-up.
9. Poor run-blocking: once again, this goes beyond the o-line - as was mentioned, the wide receivers haven't exactly been stellar in this department.
10. Failure to execute: dropped passes, missed throws, etc.
11. Charlie Weis: sorry Chuck, but you're probably #1 on this list. He did great with a veteran squad the past two years, but has done an AWFUL job getting this group ready to go.
12. Inexperience: obviously a bit problem, with NINE of the current starters on offense basically in their first year of significant p/t.
13. Too much shuffling of the depth chart: I've been over this a bunch already. The tailback position is the most blatant case.
14. All-around talent gap: this is definitely a big part of the story.
15. Penalties: lots of holding calls, false starts, etc.
16. Attitude: this group often gets discouraged when things go wrong instead of picking up their game.
17. Injures: Wenger, Romine, Clausen, Grimes, Aldridge, ...

Any more thoughts? One thing I need to do is put them in order of importance and chart the interconnections.

[CNY_Domer]

As previously stated the lack of offensive production is placed (rightfully so) on the offensive line. However, I believe that this years team could have had more offensive production with offensive leadership. I believe that Moostache pointed out the absense of Quinn and the lack of leadership from Sully has hurt this years offensive line. I have yet to see this year a individual tired of getting smacked around stand up and do something about it. It come back to the classic saying "If you dont like getting smacked around do something about it." No one on the offensive line has exhibited that persona.

[johnnd05]

Originally Posted by CNY_Domer

As previously stated the lack of offensive production is placed (rightfully so) on the offensive line. However, I believe that this years team could have had more offensive production with offensive leadership. I believe that Moostache pointed out the absense of Quinn and the lack of leadership from Sully has hurt this years offensive line. I have yet to see this year a individual tired of getting smacked around stand up and do something about it. It come back to the classic saying "If you dont like getting smacked around do something about it." No one on the offensive line has exhibited that persona.

Nice. Can't believe I forgot the proverbial leadership. Make that #18 (again, in no particular order).

[Moostache]

Originally Posted by johnnd05

I agree with you that there's a pretty substantial talent gap. But that doesn't even BEGIN to account for the full scope of offense's putridity, does it?

I am not quite ready to accept the 'talent gap' at this point...the main reason behind my thinking is that we have supposedly talented players (based on their other college offers and the collective wisdom - for what thats worth - of the recruiting leeches...uh, I meant to say 'services')...lots of them too. Maybe we don't have the roster as stacked as in the glory days of Holtz (especially the Vinnie Cerato heyday) or even the Davie days (when we had constantly talented and poorly coached teams underachieve year in and year out); but we have had 2 classes loaded with talent in the Freshmen and Sophomore classes - and I would bet that those two combined classes have more collective accolades coming into college than all of the 4 classes at GT, PU, BC or MSU combined.

They are raw and began the season inexperienced and susceptible to hesitation and mistakes, but they did not come into ND as a collection of stiffs. Almost everyone wanted Clausen and Allen and Young. (aside - if Sam did have an unpublicized injury it would go a very long way to explaining his performance this season). Plenty of the "big boys" wanted Hughes or Neal or Darrin Walls. Anyone of those guys and more from the ND roster would immediately become the most 'talented' player at Purdue!

Talent gap? Only if by gap you mean that there was a very, very poor distribution and accumulation of overall talent under the last staff (back to the recruiting of only 3 offensive linemen in 3 years for Ty, as tired as that horse is I don't think its possible to beat it to death yet) and the balancing of talent among the 4 classes plus select 5th years is not really achieved yet. ND has more than enough talent OVERALL to beat BC, PSU, MSU, PU and GT - but this year they did not have nearly enough experienced talent to cover for the raw talent of the freshmen and sophomores who obviously are not quite ready for prime time this year...

The other talent gap is that our stud recruits have not had any real break-out moments yet...Sam Young has not gone into a game and utterly dominated anyone yet (at least not the way Jake Long does for UM), Armando Allen has not had a break out game or highlight reel worthy run (like lets just say Noel Devine or Joe McKnight - his recruiting class contemporaries), Clausen has not looked as good as Stafford did for UGa last eyar and is words away from what Colt McCoy did as a first time starter at Texas - even though McCoy seems to have dropped off quite a bit this year.

When we look at these guys, especially the game-breakers like Allen or Tate, its not just a lack of production versus their contemporaries that concerns me...its that they are not making plays period. Its one thing to be limited by an O-line like they have been, but if anyone is up for reliving the good old days, go watch some of the Rocket's highlights on You Tube...jaw dropping even as a freshman and usually in individual plays like PR's, KR's and even blocking kicks.

While I recognize that its hardly fair to compare Allen or Tate to Ismail after 8 games and draw any kind of definitive conclusions, I can say that they have not had any WOW moments - like Devine has at WVU or McKnight has at USC or certainly like Rocket had at ND in '88 - so far. I think I'd feel even better about next year if we see either one or both of those guys go off in the season's stretch run. A KR for a TD...a long run.....a couple of screens that actually get them into the second level and then some moves or some speed that take the play to the house...anything like that would almost eliminate the talent gap from my vocabulary heading into next year....

Some of that may seem inconsistent with my ramblings about the O-Line above, but I think its logically coherent to think that Allen should have at least one of those WOW moments in the closing four games if he is going to our 'home-run hitter' or 'lightning' at RB over the next 3 years to compliment the Hughes/Aldridge "power runner' or 'thunder'. I hope so, because watching those old highlights of Rocket made me sad to think how long its been since he played for the Irish...he may not be the best comparison to use because he remains THE most electrifying college player I have ever seen...but I think everyone would settle for a cheap knock off that could do 1/2 of what Rocket did in his career...

[ND=NC]

I think the biggest problem is, this team has a riff right between the sophomore and junior classes. I said before that I can't quite put a finger on it, but something just isn't right on the team. I don't think every body feels like they belong on this team and I'm not sure that CW isn't to blame. For instance last week at practice he would release all the seniors and then keep the underclassmen back for fundamental drills. How are the players not going to feel shorted. The underclassmen probably think the seniors are lucky for getting out of practice early and the seniors probably think the coaching staff has given up on them. When your winning life is easy. When your losing sometimes you have to analyze the root cause and as hard as it may be implement corrective action.

Although I think CW is partially fault, I just can't put my finger on why this team is so divided.

[Moostache]

Originally Posted by ND=NC

I think the biggest problem is team has a riff right between the sophomore and junior classes. I said before that I can't quite put a finger on it, but something just isn't right on the team. I don't think every body feels like they belong on this team and I'm not sure that CW isn't to blame. For instance last week at practice he would release all the seniors and then keep the underclassmen back for fundamental drills. How are the players not going to feel shorted. The underclassmen probably think the seniors are lucky forgetting out of practice early and the senior probably think the coaching staff has given up on them. When your winning life is easy. When your losing sometimes you have to analyze the root cause and as hard as it may be implement corrective action.

Although I think CW is partially fault, I just can't put my finger on why this team is so divided.

If that's true, let's hope that they keep having the recruits talk top the underclassemn then...

The junior class is going to be the red-headed step-child of the Weis era. They came in at the last minute and were seen as the 'worst recruiting class in 50 years at ND'. They were not all Charlie's guys...though he had to salvage what he could after Ty was removed from damaging things further. They collectively are underachieving well into their upperclass days (past the half-way mark of their junior season) and they are not a very distinguished group - most of them were lucky to dress for games in 2005 and 2006 and now in 2007 only Sharpley, Kuntz and Bruton have been key contributors this season.

Take guys like Grimes and Hord.....you think that there is no resentment in them that Kamara and Tate and Floyd are already being talked about as the core for the WR's next season? Quinn and Smith at LB have been an afterthought to Neal and Brian Smith since October started...not sure about Herring and McCarthy (though I'd bet McCarthy is not having too many ill feelings or his kid brother would likely have not committed to ND).

Its easy to see why some of the Juniors would feel put out, but if that's the case and those guys are preventing the team from really coming together, then the sooner they are out of eligibility the better for the program. Not everyone can be a starter, not every starter can be a star and not every star can make it to the NFL....there comes a time for almost every player to confront those realities and then its on them to make the best contribution they CAN from there. If Grimes and Hord are getting passed on the depth chart by youngsters, it may be a pretty bitter pill now but they could still become key contributors to a championship caliber team or they could become locker room poison that prevents it...their choice, but most ND fans remember the difference decades after a player has used up that eligibility. Role players in championship seasons are nearly as famous as the stars at ND. If that can't motivate them to contribute their best, then there's not much else to do but wait until they've gone after next year...