Hockey Recruiting - Notre Dame Football Discussion

**Rip Rap** · 01-09-2005, 08:01 PM

It is important to discuss recruiting

Before I do, I want to note that this is no where near as sophisticated as the resources for football recruiting. If anybody can raise this discussion up a level, or know of any sources for real-time information, pass the source of that information or those resources along.

Hockey recruiting, unlike football and basketball recruiting, receives minimal press coverage, and the formal announcement of ND’s recruiting class generally goes unnoticed. Further, ND hasn’t enjoyed tremendous success in hockey, given that the program was reinstated in 1968 after an earlier run of teams from 1912—1927. We are not a program like Michigan, North Dakota, Boston University, or Minnesota.

Hockey recruiting also relies heavily on junior league experience, creating the odd phenomenon wherein high-school kids choose to play for regional teams with the explicit intention of receiving the attention for a scholarship to play in college. Occasionally kids are drafted by the NHL before they even attend college, and the process toward becoming a professional is very similar to baseball for this reason. There is an established minor league system to professional hockey and European players often come to America. American players generally come from Alaska, Minnesota, Michigan, and New England. Rarely do they come from elsewhere, though hockey is becoming popular further and further south in the Midwest/Southwest. Because the recruiting system focuses on junior leagues, the place of birth, highschool, etc. is generally inconsequential.

Still, Notre Dame’s teams have often recruited from the USA under-18 team and otherwise tend to do best amongst teams from the USHL. Letters of Intent must be signed between November 10 and Novermber 17, 2004. There is a second Letters of Intent signing day on April 13th.

**Rip Rap** · 01-09-2005, 08:07 PM

Hence, consider the last five recruiting classes as an analysis indexed against seasons. Again, there is no ranking system already in place, but my concern is who did well. Last year we went 20-15-4 and in 2003 we went 17-17-6. In 2002 their record was 16-17-5 and in 2001 it was 10-22-7.

The team improved noticeably beginning 1997, the third year of coach Poulin’s run, when the team’s record began to approach something near .500 regularly. In Poulin’s first 9 seasons as coach of the Irish, his record is 134-170-40. He has had only two winning seasons (2004 and 1999, and broke even in 2003). But the Ric Schaefer teams that preceded Poulin were abysmal, despite ND’s improbable 1988 run at 27-4-2. Notre Dame is just not a good hockey school.

So, if we did improve in Poulin’s third year, and have generally sustained that improvement, can we go higher? What would it take to bring ND higher?

A look at the recruiting classes leading to this year’s team:

Recruiting Class of 2005

Tom Sawatske-RD (12/8/04) Lincoln (USHL) 6' 195 1-12-84
Kevin Deeth-LW (8/2/04) Shattuck St.Mary's 5'8 165 5-26-87
Ryan Thang-RW (7/22/04) Sioux Falls (USHL) 6'1 185 5-11-87
Garrett Regan-RC (7/22/04) Waterloo (USHL) 5'11 185 4-23-85
Jordan Pearce-G (5/27/04) Lincoln (USHL) 5'10 175 10-10-86
Christian Hanson-RW (5/4/04)Tri-City (USHL) 6'3 195 3-10-86
Erik Condra-RW (3/4/04) Lincoln (USHL) 6'1 175 8-6-86
Jamie Silverson-LD (2/11/04) Salmon Arm (BCHL) 6'3 185 3-26-86
Kyle Lawson-RD (2/4/04) USNDPT U-18 Team 6' 200 1-11-87

Recruiting Class of 2004

Mark Van Guilder-RW (3/4/04)Tri-City (USHL) 6'2 186 1-17-84
Evan Rankin-RC (2/5/04) Lincoln (USHL) 6'1 175 3-28-86
Brian D'Arcy-D (1/29/04) Tri-City (USHL) 6'2 205 6-29-84
Brock Sheahan-LD (10/15/03)Crowsnest Pass (AJHL) 5'11 165 5-6-84
Dan Venard-RD (10/14/03) Green Bay (USHL) 5'11 160 10-5-85
Luke Lucyk-LD (7/25/03) Tri-City (USHL) 6'1 200 5-5-86
Victor Oreskovich-RC (5/5/02)Green Bay (USHL) 6'2 205 8-15-86

Recruiting Class of 2003

$Mike Bartlett-RW (5/1/03) USNDPT U-18 Team 6'1 195 1-6-85
T.J. Jindra-LW (1/12/03) River City (USHL) 5'11 185 8-24-82
Matt WIlliams-Kovacs-RW (12/20/02) Royals (AJHL) 5'11 195 4-28-84
Wes O'Neill-D (9/4/02) Green Bay (USHL) 6'3 195 3-3-86
Josh Sciba-LC (9/4/02) USNDPT U-18 Team 5'11 165 2-6-85
David Brown-G (8/15/02) Hamilton (OPJHL) 5'11 175 2-11-85
Noah Babin-RD (12/16/01) Green Bay (USHL) 5'11 165 3-11-84
Jason Paige-RC (11/20/01) Compuware (NAHL) 6' 191 1-19-84

Recruiting Class of 2002

Chris Trick-RD (3/6/02) Chicago (NAHL) 6'3 185 8-12-84
Tony Gill-RC (2/18/02) Cedar Rapids (USHL) 6' 170 11-18-81
Mike Walsh-LW (1/11/02) Compuware (NAHL) 6'2 191 1-12-83
Tim Wallace-RW (12/16/01) USNDPT U-18 Team 6'1 180 8-6-84
Noah Babin-RD (12/16/01) USNDPT U-18 Team 5'11 165 3-11-84
Jason Paige-RC (11/20/01) Compuware (NAHL) 6' 191 1-19-84
Rory Walsh-G (9/30/00) Nobles 5'9 175 11-2-82
Matt Amado-C (8/11/00) Pent-Coquit (BCHL) 5'11 170 7-5-83

Recruiting Class of 2001

Yan Stastny-LC (3/20/01) Omaha (USHL) 5'10 175 9-29-82
Morgan Cey-G (3/4/01) Flin Flon (SJHL) 6'1 170 10-27-81
Joe Zurenko-D (1/4/01) Green Bay (USHL) 6'1 202 11-28-82
Cory McLean-RW (12/28/00) Chicago (USHL) 5'9 175 1-15-81
Alex Lalonde-C (1/25/01) Ajax (OPJHL) 6' 190 6-21-83
Brad Wanchulak-C (11/13/00) Camrose (AJHL) 6' 180 6-18-80
Derek Smith-LD (2/13/00) US Under-18 Team 5'11 170 4-2-83

Recruiting Class of 2000

Jon Maruk-C Twin Cities (USHL) 5'8 175 -79
Robert Globke-RC US National Program 6'2 195 10-24-82
Tom Galvin-D Waterloo (USHL) 5'11 185 11-2-79
Aaron Gill-RC Rochester (USHL) 5'11 165 3-5-80
T.J. Mathieson-D Chicago (NAHL) 6'1 185 4-30-81
Brett Lebda-LD US National Dev. Team 5'10 170 1-15-82
Neil Komadoski-LD US National Dev. Team 6'1 191 2-10-82

From: http://members.aol.com/cheisenber/

**Rip Rap** · 01-09-2005, 08:18 PM

16 Amado, Matt
6-0/190 Center JR 05/07/1983 Langley, BC

6 Babin, Noah
/186 Defenseman SO 03/11/1984 Palm Bch. Gardens, FL

27 Bartlett, Michael
6-0/202 Right Wing SO 01/06/1985 Morton Grove, IL

30 Brown, David
5-11/181 Goaltender SO 02/01/1985 Stoney Creek, ONT

29 Cey, Morgan
6-3/177 Goaltender SR 10/27/1981 Wilkie, SASK

24 D'Arcy, Brian
6-2/213 Defenseman FR 06/29/1984 Western Springs, IL

13 Eggert, Andrew
5-9/173 Forward FR 01/08/1985 Livonia, Mich.

21 Gill, Tony
5-10/184 Center JR 11/18/1981 Rochester, MN

26 Jindra, T. J.
6-0/191 Right Wing SO 08/24/1982 Faribault, MN

7 Lucyk, Luke
6-0/198 Defenseman FR 05/05/1986 Fox Point, WI

10 McLean, Cory
5-9/180 Right Wing SR 01/05/1981 Fargo, ND

19 O'Neill, Wes
6-4/217 Defenseman SO 03/03/1986 Essex, ONT

20 Oreskovich, Victor
6-3/220 Right Wing FR 08/15/1986 Oakville, ONT

22 Paige, Jason
6-0/200 Center SO 01/19/1984 Saginaw, MI

18 Rankin, Evan
6-1/186 Center FR 03/28/1986 Portage, MI

8 Sciba, Josh
5-11/190 Center SO 02/06/1985 Westland, MI

14 Sheahan, Brock
5-11/165 Defenseman FR 05/06/1984 Lethbridge, ALB

5 Trick, Chris
6-3/217 Defenseman JR 08/12/1984 Troy, MI

23 Van Guilder, Mark
6-2/193 Right Wing FR 01/17/1984 Roseville, MN

4 VeNard, Dan
6-0/181 Defenseman FR 10/05/1985 Vernon Hills, IL

28 Wallace, Tim
6-1/211 Right Wing JR 08/06/1984 Anchorage, AK

17 Walsh, Mike
6-2/216 Left Wing JR 01/12/1983 Northville, MI

31 Walsh, Rory
5-9/173 Goaltender JR 11/02/1982 Milton, MA

9 Williams-Kovacs, Matthew
5-10/181 Right Wing SO 04/28/1984 Calgary, ALB

2 Zurenko, Joe
6-1/196 Defenseman SR 11/28/1982 Palatine, IL

**Rip Rap** · 01-09-2005, 08:20 PM

The best players on the team-statistically-from last season, were:

Points: Globke, Gill, Walsh, and McLean
Goals: Globke, Gill, Walsh, Mclean, and Paige
PP: Gill, Globke, Paige, Komadoski
SH: Jindra, Globke, and Trick
+/-: Walsh, Gill, and McClean
Assists: Globke and Gill
Shots: Globke and Lebda
Pct: Gill and Paige

Obviously Globke and Gill were the two best players on the team. Globke was drafted in the second round by the Florida Panthers, becoming the first ever Irish player to be drafted this high. Stastny went in the eighth round.

With the accumulative information I've posted, can anybody add anything to this discussion?

**the_voidoid** · 01-09-2005, 08:52 PM

my general concern with the hockey team is its inconsistent play. this season we've posted a record of 5-12-5, with our first win of the season coming on a shorthanded tiebreaking goal with a few seconds left versus then #1 ranked boston college.

possibly the problem lies not in recruiting but the game planning and development of the talent we have. the football team is a case where the coaching obviously was not properly developing the players. maybe ND needs to shake up the coaching staff and get a good strategic guy that will find ways to win through tactics rather than raw talent. once we can put together a few successful seasons the talent (more specifically: the talent that is interested in college) should be attracted to ND.

**Rip Rap** · 01-09-2005, 09:22 PM

Two seasons ago I saw half the homegames, and we had a tendancy to win the first night and lose the second night. To me, that was a sign of poor conditioning. A good team should be capable of playing two nights in a row. Going back-and-forth was sad.

But then, that didn't appear to be the problem after all, and we've tanked altogether since then. I wish I coud have seen a game this year. We certainly lack consistency, but it isn't even the back n' forth exchange anymore.

**Rip Rap** · 01-09-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_voidoid

maybe ND needs to shake up the coaching staff and get a good strategic guy that will find ways to win through tactics rather than raw talent. once we can put together a few successful seasons the talent (more specifically: the talent that is interested in college) should be attracted to ND.

I don't know if I do buy this though. Poulin has commented that ND is finally in a position to be attractive to some star players, and Globke is the only true great we've ever had, and he was the star player. Poulin may not be Jacques Lemair or Scotty Bowman, but he loves ND and he understands the school's special relationship with football. This season is particularly bad, but we've been competitive in the past. Only recently has the CCHA come to be regarded as a weak conference. It does have Michigan and Michigan State.

Also, I do have a second thread I started wherein I was hoping to talk more about the staff. There are certain benefits, in my opinion, to Poulin.

01-09-2005, 08:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
Rip Rap Sophomore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 962 Cash: 6,113.75 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,113.75 Donate	Hockey Recruiting It is important to discuss recruiting Before I do, I want to note that this is no where near as sophisticated as the resources for football recruiting. If anybody can raise this discussion up a level, or know of any sources for real-time information, pass the source of that information or those resources along. Hockey recruiting, unlike football and basketball recruiting, receives minimal press coverage, and the formal announcement of ND’s recruiting class generally goes unnoticed. Further, ND hasn’t enjoyed tremendous success in hockey, given that the program was reinstated in 1968 after an earlier run of teams from 1912—1927. We are not a program like Michigan, North Dakota, Boston University, or Minnesota. Hockey recruiting also relies heavily on junior league experience, creating the odd phenomenon wherein high-school kids choose to play for regional teams with the explicit intention of receiving the attention for a scholarship to play in college. Occasionally kids are drafted by the NHL before they even attend college, and the process toward becoming a professional is very similar to baseball for this reason. There is an established minor league system to professional hockey and European players often come to America. American players generally come from Alaska, Minnesota, Michigan, and New England. Rarely do they come from elsewhere, though hockey is becoming popular further and further south in the Midwest/Southwest. Because the recruiting system focuses on junior leagues, the place of birth, highschool, etc. is generally inconsequential. Still, Notre Dame’s teams have often recruited from the USA under-18 team and otherwise tend to do best amongst teams from the USHL. Letters of Intent must be signed between November 10 and Novermber 17, 2004. There is a second Letters of Intent signing day on April 13th.

01-09-2005, 08:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
Rip Rap Sophomore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 962 Cash: 6,113.75 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,113.75 Donate	The current roster 16 Amado, Matt 6-0/190 Center JR 05/07/1983 Langley, BC 6 Babin, Noah /186 Defenseman SO 03/11/1984 Palm Bch. Gardens, FL 27 Bartlett, Michael 6-0/202 Right Wing SO 01/06/1985 Morton Grove, IL 30 Brown, David 5-11/181 Goaltender SO 02/01/1985 Stoney Creek, ONT 29 Cey, Morgan 6-3/177 Goaltender SR 10/27/1981 Wilkie, SASK 24 D'Arcy, Brian 6-2/213 Defenseman FR 06/29/1984 Western Springs, IL 13 Eggert, Andrew 5-9/173 Forward FR 01/08/1985 Livonia, Mich. 21 Gill, Tony 5-10/184 Center JR 11/18/1981 Rochester, MN 26 Jindra, T. J. 6-0/191 Right Wing SO 08/24/1982 Faribault, MN 7 Lucyk, Luke 6-0/198 Defenseman FR 05/05/1986 Fox Point, WI 10 McLean, Cory 5-9/180 Right Wing SR 01/05/1981 Fargo, ND 19 O'Neill, Wes 6-4/217 Defenseman SO 03/03/1986 Essex, ONT 20 Oreskovich, Victor 6-3/220 Right Wing FR 08/15/1986 Oakville, ONT 22 Paige, Jason 6-0/200 Center SO 01/19/1984 Saginaw, MI 18 Rankin, Evan 6-1/186 Center FR 03/28/1986 Portage, MI 8 Sciba, Josh 5-11/190 Center SO 02/06/1985 Westland, MI 14 Sheahan, Brock 5-11/165 Defenseman FR 05/06/1984 Lethbridge, ALB 5 Trick, Chris 6-3/217 Defenseman JR 08/12/1984 Troy, MI 23 Van Guilder, Mark 6-2/193 Right Wing FR 01/17/1984 Roseville, MN 4 VeNard, Dan 6-0/181 Defenseman FR 10/05/1985 Vernon Hills, IL 28 Wallace, Tim 6-1/211 Right Wing JR 08/06/1984 Anchorage, AK 17 Walsh, Mike 6-2/216 Left Wing JR 01/12/1983 Northville, MI 31 Walsh, Rory 5-9/173 Goaltender JR 11/02/1982 Milton, MA 9 Williams-Kovacs, Matthew 5-10/181 Right Wing SO 04/28/1984 Calgary, ALB 2 Zurenko, Joe 6-1/196 Defenseman SR 11/28/1982 Palatine, IL

01-09-2005, 08:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rip Rap Sophomore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 962 Cash: 6,113.75 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,113.75 Donate	So then, who panned out? The best players on the team-statistically-from last season, were: Points: Globke, Gill, Walsh, and McLean Goals: Globke, Gill, Walsh, Mclean, and Paige PP: Gill, Globke, Paige, Komadoski SH: Jindra, Globke, and Trick +/-: Walsh, Gill, and McClean Assists: Globke and Gill Shots: Globke and Lebda Pct: Gill and Paige Obviously Globke and Gill were the two best players on the team. Globke was drafted in the second round by the Florida Panthers, becoming the first ever Irish player to be drafted this high. Stastny went in the eighth round. With the accumulative information I've posted, can anybody add anything to this discussion?

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01-09-2005, 08:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rip Rap Sophomore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 962 Cash: 6,113.75 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,113.75 Donate	Hence, consider the last five recruiting classes as an analysis indexed against seasons. Again, there is no ranking system already in place, but my concern is who did well. Last year we went 20-15-4 and in 2003 we went 17-17-6. In 2002 their record was 16-17-5 and in 2001 it was 10-22-7. The team improved noticeably beginning 1997, the third year of coach Poulin’s run, when the team’s record began to approach something near .500 regularly. In Poulin’s first 9 seasons as coach of the Irish, his record is 134-170-40. He has had only two winning seasons (2004 and 1999, and broke even in 2003). But the Ric Schaefer teams that preceded Poulin were abysmal, despite ND’s improbable 1988 run at 27-4-2. Notre Dame is just not a good hockey school. So, if we did improve in Poulin’s third year, and have generally sustained that improvement, can we go higher? What would it take to bring ND higher? A look at the recruiting classes leading to this year’s team: Recruiting Class of 2005 Tom Sawatske-RD (12/8/04) Lincoln (USHL) 6' 195 1-12-84 Kevin Deeth-LW (8/2/04) Shattuck St.Mary's 5'8 165 5-26-87 Ryan Thang-RW (7/22/04) Sioux Falls (USHL) 6'1 185 5-11-87 Garrett Regan-RC (7/22/04) Waterloo (USHL) 5'11 185 4-23-85 Jordan Pearce-G (5/27/04) Lincoln (USHL) 5'10 175 10-10-86 Christian Hanson-RW (5/4/04)Tri-City (USHL) 6'3 195 3-10-86 Erik Condra-RW (3/4/04) Lincoln (USHL) 6'1 175 8-6-86 Jamie Silverson-LD (2/11/04) Salmon Arm (BCHL) 6'3 185 3-26-86 Kyle Lawson-RD (2/4/04) USNDPT U-18 Team 6' 200 1-11-87 Recruiting Class of 2004 Mark Van Guilder-RW (3/4/04)Tri-City (USHL) 6'2 186 1-17-84 Evan Rankin-RC (2/5/04) Lincoln (USHL) 6'1 175 3-28-86 Brian D'Arcy-D (1/29/04) Tri-City (USHL) 6'2 205 6-29-84 Brock Sheahan-LD (10/15/03)Crowsnest Pass (AJHL) 5'11 165 5-6-84 Dan Venard-RD (10/14/03) Green Bay (USHL) 5'11 160 10-5-85 Luke Lucyk-LD (7/25/03) Tri-City (USHL) 6'1 200 5-5-86 Victor Oreskovich-RC (5/5/02)Green Bay (USHL) 6'2 205 8-15-86 Recruiting Class of 2003 $Mike Bartlett-RW (5/1/03) USNDPT U-18 Team 6'1 195 1-6-85 T.J. Jindra-LW (1/12/03) River City (USHL) 5'11 185 8-24-82 Matt WIlliams-Kovacs-RW (12/20/02) Royals (AJHL) 5'11 195 4-28-84 Wes O'Neill-D (9/4/02) Green Bay (USHL) 6'3 195 3-3-86 Josh Sciba-LC (9/4/02) USNDPT U-18 Team 5'11 165 2-6-85 David Brown-G (8/15/02) Hamilton (OPJHL) 5'11 175 2-11-85 Noah Babin-RD (12/16/01) Green Bay (USHL) 5'11 165 3-11-84 Jason Paige-RC (11/20/01) Compuware (NAHL) 6' 191 1-19-84 Recruiting Class of 2002 Chris Trick-RD (3/6/02) Chicago (NAHL) 6'3 185 8-12-84 Tony Gill-RC (2/18/02) Cedar Rapids (USHL) 6' 170 11-18-81 Mike Walsh-LW (1/11/02) Compuware (NAHL) 6'2 191 1-12-83 Tim Wallace-RW (12/16/01) USNDPT U-18 Team 6'1 180 8-6-84 Noah Babin-RD (12/16/01) USNDPT U-18 Team 5'11 165 3-11-84 Jason Paige-RC (11/20/01) Compuware (NAHL) 6' 191 1-19-84 Rory Walsh-G (9/30/00) Nobles 5'9 175 11-2-82 Matt Amado-C (8/11/00) Pent-Coquit (BCHL) 5'11 170 7-5-83 Recruiting Class of 2001 Yan Stastny-LC (3/20/01) Omaha (USHL) 5'10 175 9-29-82 Morgan Cey-G (3/4/01) Flin Flon (SJHL) 6'1 170 10-27-81 Joe Zurenko-D (1/4/01) Green Bay (USHL) 6'1 202 11-28-82 Cory McLean-RW (12/28/00) Chicago (USHL) 5'9 175 1-15-81 Alex Lalonde-C (1/25/01) Ajax (OPJHL) 6' 190 6-21-83 Brad Wanchulak-C (11/13/00) Camrose (AJHL) 6' 180 6-18-80 Derek Smith-LD (2/13/00) US Under-18 Team 5'11 170 4-2-83 Recruiting Class of 2000 Jon Maruk-C Twin Cities (USHL) 5'8 175 -79 Robert Globke-RC US National Program 6'2 195 10-24-82 Tom Galvin-D Waterloo (USHL) 5'11 185 11-2-79 Aaron Gill-RC Rochester (USHL) 5'11 165 3-5-80 T.J. Mathieson-D Chicago (NAHL) 6'1 185 4-30-81 Brett Lebda-LD US National Dev. Team 5'10 170 1-15-82 Neil Komadoski-LD US National Dev. Team 6'1 191 2-10-82 From: http://members.aol.com/cheisenber/

01-09-2005, 08:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
the_voidoid Walk-On Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: san diego Posts: 121 Cash: 1,178.50 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 1,178.50 Donate	my general concern with the hockey team is its inconsistent play. this season we've posted a record of 5-12-5, with our first win of the season coming on a shorthanded tiebreaking goal with a few seconds left versus then #1 ranked boston college. possibly the problem lies not in recruiting but the game planning and development of the talent we have. the football team is a case where the coaching obviously was not properly developing the players. maybe ND needs to shake up the coaching staff and get a good strategic guy that will find ways to win through tactics rather than raw talent. once we can put together a few successful seasons the talent (more specifically: the talent that is interested in college) should be attracted to ND.

01-09-2005, 09:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rip Rap Sophomore Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 962 Cash: 6,113.75 Bank: 0.00 Total Bankroll: 6,113.75 Donate	Two seasons ago I saw half the homegames, and we had a tendancy to win the first night and lose the second night. To me, that was a sign of poor conditioning. A good team should be capable of playing two nights in a row. Going back-and-forth was sad. But then, that didn't appear to be the problem after all, and we've tanked altogether since then. I wish I coud have seen a game this year. We certainly lack consistency, but it isn't even the back n' forth exchange anymore.

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