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November 03, 2004
Fire Ty Willingham
A couple of weeks ago, I made a post about NCAA football and wrote that Notre Dame will probably fire Ty Willingham. I have been seeing a lot of hits coming to my blog through search engines (Yahoo and Google) with words "Fire Ty Willingham". Looks like Notre Dame fans are totally pissed at him and want to blame him for their team's poor performance and want him out. How many coaches will they fire before they realise that their whole football program is in trouble? How long will they live on those stories from past about their greatness?
Interestingly, this post will be hit by those looking for "Fire Ty Willingham", too.
Posted by Parag at November 3, 2004 09:53 PM | TrackBack
Comments
fire Willingham and hire Steve Spurrier for 2005
Posted by: Bill Geiser at November 13, 2004 10:21 PM
Why don't you and Ty go fuck yourselves!
Posted by: Screw You at November 13, 2004 10:28 PM
Bill: I don't think Steve Spurrier will coach Notre Dame. It is too cold for him. He'll find another school in the south. Anyway, Ty Willingham is not a bad coach. He did a great job at Stanford before coming to Notre Dame. Maybe, there is some problem with ND administration. They keep firing coaches and hiring new ones without much success.
Posted by: Parag at November 15, 2004 12:59 PM
Trackback,
Is english your first language?
Fire Losingham! Hire Urban
Posted by: Boob at November 17, 2004 12:55 PM
Trackback,
Is english your first language?
Fire Losingham! Hire Urban
Posted by: Boob at November 17, 2004 12:55 PM
Why do you Domers keep saying its the Coach, Does a Coach fumble, Cause Penalties, Drop passes and just dont perform to thier ability.
Coaching is an art , And no one likes Art when its wet. You Must wait and Appreciate what he is trying to do. I believe Domers just like to complain and cry at least once a year. They cried Fire Davies, Cried to get Holiday in then cried to get Holiday out,Win with Quin what a joke, No They are crying to get Willingham out.
I believe Notre DAme our spoiled brat and if it doesn't go their way the cry.
Posted by: ADam at November 20, 2004 12:02 AM
Why do you Domers keep saying its the Coach, Does a Coach fumble, Cause Penalties, Drop passes and just dont perform to thier ability.
Coaching is an art , And no one likes Art when its wet. You Must wait and Appreciate what he is trying to do. I believe Domers just like to complain and cry at least once a year. They cried Fire Davies, Cried to get Holiday in then cried to get Holiday out,Win with Quin what a joke, No They are crying to get Willingham out.
I believe Notre DAme our spoiled brat and if it doesn't go their way the cry.
Posted by: ADam at November 20, 2004 12:02 AM
Well - i think it is this way - Willingham is not a ND fan - he is a stanford fan - ND needs to hire someone who knows that Nd legends, etc to get a championship program. ND is slow to fire coaches so maybe 2 years. But I agree Willingham is a good but not great coach. I think ND will sometime be once again a Championship team when they get an Urban Meyer or someone like that at ND. Tell me your comments.
Posted by: pete at November 22, 2004 06:25 PM
Actually a coach does cause fumbles and penalties and dropped passes by not leading a disciplined team. Coaching may indeed be an artform, but uninspired coaching is an embarassment.
Oh...and Notre Dame fans have every right to want to see their team do better. The Irish have a storied history....one that many people still remember very fondly. The story of Notre Dame football IS the story of College Football. To desire excellence is not complaining, it is what every fan, regardless of team loyalty, should wish for.
Urban Meyer '05
Posted by: Mithrandir_44 at November 22, 2004 06:28 PM
Are you kidding me. Did you see the program Ty took over. Is it no mystery why Lou quit. Norte Dame offers nothing for a quality player anymore. Who wants to go play there when they can play in gaurenteed BCS bowls and get NFL recognition. Have you noticed that Football players actually get paid real money at other colleges. Yes Norte Dame is prestigious and that is honorable. That however does not pay the bills. Until you play conferance football in south bend you can hire every coach in the world. You will never get the quality recruits that a party hard, national exposure, pay thier athletes on the sly program can give. Ty is playing with the middle tier of the college football player pool. I am surprised that he can even win with what was left of that proud program. Lou Holt got out when he realized it. It's time for you to realize it too.
Posted by: Don Rouse at November 24, 2004 01:10 PM
Lou Holtz had a 100% graduation rate the same year he won the National Championship. Good student and good athletes CAN go hand in hand.
Posted by: Mithrandir_44 at November 24, 2004 08:19 PM
Oh...he also had 13 first round draft picks in the early 90's. And Notre Dame has an exclusive contract with NBC...so there is your NFL recognition and exposure.
Posted by: Mithrandir_44 at November 24, 2004 08:37 PM
Come on anti-ND people - if u r anti-ND u r anti-college fb. It is that simple - ANY team can go to a National championship and ND is 7 plays away from being a 10-0 team - it is all cause of an undisciplined team. When a team is voted in 2 polls as the most popular team and it is 6-4 and 7 plays away from 10-0 cause of an undisciplined team fire your coach. ND however is slow to pull the triger and will probably not fire Ty for another year. Urban Meyer is the best pick for the ND team.
Urban Meyer at ND '06 i wish it would be '05
PS any team can now win the Championship - ND is not excluded cause they have in the past ND BCS Champions when Urban Meyer takes over.
Posted by: Pete at November 25, 2004 08:52 AM
Hey, ND bashers, could it be the Irish are only a good coach away from more national titles? Naahh, they're probably relegated to LOSER status FOREVER just like Southern Cal and Oklahoma. Oh, wait, you mean those two recent National Title winners who had multiple losing seasons prior to Pete Carroll and Bob Stoops taking over? Let's see.....what could that have been? Same programs, same uniforms, same traditions, same location, same alumni BUT....new coach and then, surprise---- championships in only 2 to 3 years!!! Damn, that's a hard one to figure.
Probably, also, a mere coincidence that perrenial cellar-dwellers Utah, UTEP, So. Carolina, Louisville have new (EXCELLENT) coaches and rose to the top while surefire, always Top-10, BCS champs Nebraska and Florida have new (LOUSY )coaches but are currently creating that giant sucking sound Ross Perot talked about.
Based on ADam's take, the same Urban Meyer that went 11-0 and #6 BCSwith somebody else's players at MWC powerhouse Utah goes to ND but would be lucky to beat Central Mich, So. Fla or Slippery Rock. WAKE UP Irish haters----Notre Dame is only one coaching hire away from multiple national titles!!!!! FIRE TY and kick in Urban Renewal ASAP!!!!!!!
Posted by: kasnuski at November 27, 2004 12:18 AM
You guys at ND didn't do your research. Ty's great record at Stanford some of you cite was 44-36-1...and he lost 2 of 3 bowl games. 8 games over .500...and 7 of those were against a pathic Cal team who I believe didn't have a winning season during that peroid. Your program is going nowhere with a guy who was an assistant coach for 20 years for damn good reasons. He and your AD should both be fired. As bad as our program is now, I'm delighted you took him. We don't have talent right now....but Willingham had, and just wasted it by playing not to lose.
Signed,
A Stanford football ticket holder for 30 years
Posted by: Bill Seethaler at November 27, 2004 11:30 PM
USC 41 ND 10
Yet another in a long list of reasons why Notre Dame should bite the bullet and buy out Willingham. Another lackluster year of Notre Dame football marked by mediocre offense and absolutely breathtakingly bad defense has finally come to a close. Hopefully I can post here in the next few weeks about the bright future ND has under new Head Coach Urban Meyer.
Posted by: Mithrandir_44 at November 28, 2004 12:01 AM
Look, the program as a whole needs to be overhauled. A.D. White needs to go as well as anyone. He has caused the program(as well as the University) national embarrassment. He extended Davies contract, he hired O'leary, worst of all he hired Willingham. Outside of him, the program at Notre Dame is in dispair. They need professionals to look into other successful programs(i.e. Michigan, the revised U.S.C., Oklahoma, I could go on..) and see exactly what they're(Notre Dame) not doing, and what the successful programs are doing. Willingham does need to go. Not a year from now, but right now. I don't beleive he'll ever have success at Notre Dame. I don't know if he loves and appreciates the Universty and or the program. Niether did the last coach. With the last two coaches we are approaching 9yrs. of mediocrity. It's hurting the fans tremendously. I'm asking ALL fans and true supporters of Notre Dame to send e-mails, write, call, protest, whatever it takes, to the University about this on going problem.
IT CAN BE GOOD AGAIN AT NOTRE DAME!!!!!!!!
Posted by: ilryes at November 28, 2004 12:08 PM
time for Meyer how about trying to get Norm Chow if you get him you can get the top offensive players in the country to ND
Posted by: jim kelley at November 28, 2004 01:10 PM
Stop blaming Ty. He's doing his best, and you know it. You are simply watching the Peter Principle at work.
Also, stop pretending that it is not the coaching. The BCS, conference membership, and somebody's perceived football trends are irrelevant fillers that the guys on ESPN prattle on about only to fill in the time between games. Notre Dame in 2004 is just Oklahoma or USC a couple years ago - a great program on the rocks, waiting for the single missing ingredient to a national championship.
The trouble starts at the top. Next higher up would be the AD, but even he must answer to the board that runs ND. And it appears that at that level, football at ND is now regarded as just a sport, a nice bit of history, but not THE draw for the better part of the beloved student body. Which it happens to be. It has been said that Notre Dame rests on the foundation of spirituality, academic excellence, and football. Perhaps one of ND's physics professors could explain to the board what happens when you cut off one leg of a tripod.
Posted by: John at November 28, 2004 03:45 PM
Lou Holtz used to say that a good coach made a mediocre player good, a good player better, and a better player the best. Notre Dame has the talent....look at players like Grant, Walker, Shelton, etc.... what this team lacks is motivation, discipline, and the direction needed to take these players and mold them into champions.
As a footnote....Notre Dame has been playing football since 1897...107 years. Twice in 107 years a quarterback has thrown for 5 touchdowns against the Irish... they just happen to be the last two games against them. That is sad.
Posted by: Mithrandir_44 at November 28, 2004 04:52 PM
Did u hear the new news? Stanford just hired Ty Willingham! Now ND is free to choose their own Championship quality coach - top two on the list are:
1. Pete Carrol, Head Coach USC
2. Urban Meyer, Head Coach Utah
Next and finally is,
3. Umm I forgot his name the guy who is the head coach of Louisville
and the one who will most probably looking at the last 2 coaches be hired is;
4. Former Head Coach Ron Turner, illi 3-8
lol
Posted by: pete at November 29, 2004 09:42 AM
Look, fools.... Only a couple of you seem to know the first thing about Notre Dame. First, Lou Holtz didn't "quit" at ND. He was forced out by the same president who has been in office since that day. That president (Malloy) is scheduled to leave this summer. With his departure, traditional ND football will return.
Hiring Bob Davie was a mistake (made with Malloy's influence). He had NO head coach experience - which is why he still lives in south Bend and will never coach again. And nobody can say we fire coaches frequently...we gave Davie 5 LONG years! Willingham, lets not forget, was ND's 3rd or 4th choice 3 years ago. His record at Stanford was no better than it is at ND. He's not the recruiter and motivator we need. Put simply, he's not a premier coach. Notre Dame does NOT cry about coaches or anything else any more than any other team in the nation. We're simply the most visible. Even you dildos who are on here bashing ND are only doing it because you're on the Irish nuts. If you hate ND so bad, pay attention to your own team and not us. Get off our nuts. ND DOES have talent. Anyone who saw us beat Michigan or Tennessee cannot deny it. But the team is not properly coached, disciplined, or motivated. Additionally, the president raised academic standards across the board with Holtz's departure. That should not be an excuse. We can still beat anyone - but we're not beating the teams we SHOULD beat. Anyone who knows the first thing about athletics in general knows that is a result of coaching and leadership. Willingham DOES need to go. He's a great guy. He's classy and has handled the pressure very well. But put simply, he's not able to bring the team to the level Notre Dame expects. It would not be surprising to give him one more year. BUT, in doing so, we may lose a shot at a great coach who actually WANTS to be at Notre Dame. Do any of you remember 3 years ago? Nobody wanted this "hot seat" job except coaches who were too stupid or unsuccessful to back away from it. ND needs to make a "business" move and grab Urban Meyer before he ends up in Columbus or Ann Arbor. Next year, with a new president and hopefully a new coaching staff, you will see immediate improvement - new attitude, the old ND confidence and swagger, and consistent return to the top 10. If Ty stays, it will be a little better next year, but not what Irish fans expect.
Posted by: NBrown at November 29, 2004 02:08 PM
Don't say fire Ty Willingham, say replace Ty Willingham with ........? George O'Leary?????
Urban Meyer is not a viable replacement because he will take the Florida position at the end of the year. (He will end up in Columbus -- are you kidding me, Tressell is a God) Willingham will get another year because you owe it to a coach to give him his senior class, after all we hired him.
Here is a good point that everyone forgets, last time we went looking for a coach and thought that Bobby Stoops and John Gruden would come begging for the position, well they didn't ..... and we hired George O'Leary and then Ty Willingham. Outside of Urban Meyer does anyone have anybody in mind that would replace TY?????????????
Truth be told, this is the best talent that ND has seen since Holtz's last good year in 1993. The team that Willingham took over was morbid on offense and shaky on defense (although he coached them up his first year) it was unrealistic to think that he could win a national championship until he brings in his own talent. Remember we have been mediocre for quite some time, so it will take some time to turn it around.
As seen by the USC debacle we arent there yet.
Posted by: CMcFarland at November 29, 2004 04:49 PM
How can you even make an argument that Willingham is not the problem? Look at the USC His offensive coordinator is aweful ie mowing down the USC d in the first drive of the thrid quarter...then when things were clicking calling two back to back gimmic plays breaking all momentum and basicly resulting in a 14 pt swing. You cannot tell me that he did not hear those play call running through his headset, you do nto like them call time out. If you do not fire someone below you and they do a poor job the boss gets the ax. Freshamn Darius Walker beat MIchigan and Tennesee with wonderful running plays Ryan grant ran for his typicall two yard gain and then would get stopped in the back field. Walker had 13 carries for 113 yards against Pitt, vs Grant's 16 carries for 67 yards yet when the Irish were driving and needed a touchdown to win...Walker was no where to be found, it was all Ryan Grant and he pulled his typical lose two yards when you need 3 for a first down. Personal is coaching. Beating two top 10 teams then losing to Pitt (who yes is in a BCS BOWL but not in the top 20) and BC (who lost to Temple) it's coaching. No coach who has had a losing season in year three has ever turned it around and been successful in five seasons at Notre Dame. Get rid of him or not...Notre Dame fans are Smart and have basis for the viewpoints...
Posted by: CHris at November 29, 2004 10:42 PM
I have to comment on CMcFarland's point....
Tressel is a god? Have you watched TV lately? He is about to be fired. Ohio State is in really deep with this investigation. He will not be at OSU much longer....nor will Andy Geiger....nor will Tressel's brother. Tressel is "a god" who already had a major blemish on his record from Youngstown. When the shit hits the fan at OSU, they will be looking for a new coach. And since Meyer has out clauses for ND, Michigan, and yes, OSU, he certainly could end up in Columbus. Additionally, Meyer will NOT go to Florida. Again, read up - there are 9 assistant coaches under contract at UF. Not many people will want to walk into that position, not being able to bring in their own staff. Certainly Urban is smart enough to wait for the right situation. Florida is not it.
ND doesn't need to have anyone else in mind to replace TY. They just need to know that he'll commit to ND if we open the position. And he will. He was formerly a coordinator at ND for 5 years. The whole freaking world knows he loves ND and wants the position. You are right - last time, nobody wanted the job. But look who we were replacing - anyone was better than Bob Davie. Ty has done OK, but I'm sick of this "let him get his guys in" shit. Now you're saying "let him graduate his class"? What is this, a love, hugs, and pity party? It's about winning football games, not letting Ty hug his first recruiting class good-bye. We have been mediocre for quite some time, and we still are. Have you seen our D-Backs play lately? Well guess what - THEY SUCK. Davie left us much better backs and safety's than this: Walton, Duff, and Sapp were at least respectable - hell, Walton was a Walter Camp All-American! But overall, we are in the same boat we've been in for about 9 years. The point is that Ty will never get us to compete with the USC's of the nation. Isn't that the goal?
Right on, CHris, Willingham is a big part of the problem. He coaches not to lose. That's weak, period.
Lastly, nobody should mention Kevin White as a part of the problem. He is an ATHLETIC Director, not a FOOTBALL Director. If you haven't noticed, virtually EVERY team Notre Dame has is ranked. Many are top 10. Even our shitty football team cracked the rankings twice this year. He does his job very well, and is one of the best AD's in the country. Although the whole situation with the coaches last time was a mess, we're talking about 1 mistake with O'Leary. After that, who did you expect him to hire? He can'e make someone come to ND if they don't want to inherit the mess Davie left behind! He got the best we could get at the time. Now, it's time to do that again. And the best for the Irish is Urban Meyer. Ohio State can have Ron Zook.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 10:33 AM
I agree with NBrown on all of his statements. But realizing Willingham is the highest paid coach in College FB is a reason ND wont and probably CANT fire him. Thats y i am hoping he will take the stanford job or maybe even the Washington - some say Husky fans are exited about a possible Willigham staff. check out irishenvy.com for a irish message board. I hope it will be
Urban Meyer '05 with the Luck o' the Irish
Posted by: Pete at November 30, 2004 12:14 PM
And there he goes as of 4pm today.
Thanks for comin, Ty.
Hello Coach Meyer.
Thank you all.....
What a great day.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 01:52 PM
NBrown, Tressel is about to be fired???????? Do you smoke crack???????? They are going to fire him over a bogus article that ESPN wrote in which they grabbed three thugs off the street to tell their side of the story. Each one had been kicked off the campus for being thugs.
And last time I checked, the NCAA had completed their second investigation finding nothing.
Major blemish on his record from YSU????? You do smoke crack! The former owner of Pharmor gave one of his kids money to do advertisements. Why is that a blemish on his record.
Looks like you got your wish! Willingham is gone. But do me a favor when the Irish have not won a national championship within the next three years when Meyer takes over, hold him accountable and ask for his head.
The worst thing that Willingham did was make dogshit shine in 2002.
Posted by: CMcFarland at November 30, 2004 02:07 PM
Hi I Saw VICTORY IS OURS.
Urban Meyer '05
come to a college FB chatroom -
www.collegefb.tk
Posted by: Pete at November 30, 2004 02:13 PM
CMcFarland,
If Crack makes you see the truth, then I smoke it all day. Tressel had WELL KNOWN violations at Youngstown. NCAA investigations haven't even begun at OSU. Do ME a favor - sit back and watch. Shit will happen as sson as the season is over. Hey, I was right about Willingham, I was right about Clarett, and I will be right about Tressel as well. Hey, if you like them so much, get your ass on the Buckeyes chat.
Peace.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 02:51 PM
NBrown, what are these well known violations that you speak of? I am grew up in Youngstown, I know what I am talking about. There were no well known violations and the NCAA investigations at Columbus for the second time have already taken place.
Please dont talk about something that you nothing about! And I am thinking about rooting for the scarlett and gray instead of my alma mater, who hired a coach to cover up a blunder (O'Leary). A black coach at a prestigous catholic university -- o'leary who? And then proceeded to jump the gun on firing him.
Posted by: CMcFarland at November 30, 2004 03:13 PM
CMcFarland,
Actually, I'm embarrassed to hear that you're a fellow ND grad. I was an athlete there as well.
AND I work in college athletics - IN COMPLIANCE.
I know exactly what I'm talking about.
We didn't jump the gun, either. This was a good, gutsy move. We gave Ty 3 years. Did you know Carroll turned USC around in 2, Cal was turned around in 3, Saban turned LSU around in 2, etc, etc.
The student body had a protest scheduled for 5:30 today, where they were going to meet at the dome and leave their green "return to glory" shirts on the steps, demanding the firing of Willingham. Looks like you're the only Domer who disagreed with this. Not surprising since you're now leaning toward the dirty buckeye program. Go ahead, jump ship.
Tressel was found out on giving money to kids at youngstown, and doing the same stuff with the "jobs". Now, everyone knows what has been going on at OSU. It's alot of the same stuff. NCAA doesn't investigate something in a week. It will take a while. Remember how long it took for them to get to the bottom of Clarett's situation? Trust me, things will be uncovered there.
Also, you don't deserve that ND diploma if you ever cheer for the buckeyes over the Irish. The only thing worse would be claiming BC, Michigan, or USC. O'Leary was a fraud. He HAD to go! Did you have a problem with Ty being black? That has absolutely NOTHING to do with it! He's not cutting it, period. Also, Washington has contacted him many times in the last 2 weeks, and his family hates south bend. He'll have another job by the end of the week.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 03:46 PM
Congratulations ND! Your 3 year nightmare is over. Collegiate football's biggest hood wink job of selling Ty Willingham as a top coach has ended. He must have collected his ND paychecks with a gun and a mask. Your AD should be sitting in Ty's back seat as when he drives out of town.
Couldn't ND have waited until Stanford hires a new coach? God, were now faced with this turkey possibly coming back to Palo Alto! I predicted Ty would be out of ND within 3 years, and people around me thought I was nuts. Wish I did as well with my investments.
See my November 27th email above.
Bill....a Stanford football ticket holder for 30 years
Posted by: BILL SEETHALER at November 30, 2004 04:00 PM
Man, even Stanford folks agree with us. (Stanford obviously knows all about Ty AND decent academic standards) Surely not a bad move letting Ty go.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 04:14 PM
NBrown, Ty probably will have a job by week's end! I have heard the rumors about Washington as well.
Willingham was a mistake from the beginning because they botched the hiring process three years ago when know one showed up at the hiring meeting. They rushed to hire O'leary late in the game and then out of desperation hired Willingham which they knew would probably help save them some face. Everyone forgot about O'Leary and focused on the first black coach to be hired by a catholic university. Did you ever ask yourself why they hired Willingham in the first place? And don’t give me that bogus reply that he coached at a similar university. He had an average record at Stanford.
What I think is unfair is that ND rushed to eliminate their mistake. Three years is not enough time given what Willingham was taking over. Holtz (late in his ND career) and Davie were unable to recruit blue chip players on the offensive side of the ball. Converting an option attack to a west coast offense or at least a pro style offense, which you need to have today in order to recruit kids with real talent that want to go on to the next level, takes time.
Look at next year's team. They are all Willingham's kids. Walker is the best RB we have seen since Jerome Bettis, Quinn the best since Mirer, Stovall and McNight have potential to big time performers at WR as Seniors. He has been able to recruit the skill positioned offensive players that Davie and Holtz at the end his tenure could not. I saw progress in the talent pool with Willingham and would have like to seen him have the chance to reap the benefits.
However, Urban Meyer will take over a solid team. If he can’t do it three years, you might want to look at pointing the finger at someone besides the coach.
I respect your background but it’s not true what you are saying about Tressell, he was never found out “about giving money to kids” at Youngstown. This is simply not true -- never happened – bogus rumor. The investigation only took a few weeks bc they were looking into the same things that they did a year ago.
Posted by: CMcFarland at November 30, 2004 04:30 PM
CMcFarland,
I agree with some of what you have said this time. Willingham was not a good hire in the first place. Some say he has never had his heart in this, either. He has brought in some decent kids, but our D is still worse than it has ever been.
I would still disagree with you about the 3 years thing. Again, look at all the programs that have turned around in 3 years or less. Cal, USC, Oklahoma, UTAH, LSU, etc... It IS possible. Tressel is one of those guys - OSU turned around in 2 years! It can and should be done. And Ty's race has NOTHING to do with it. I didn't agree with him being hired in the first place, simply based on his record at Stanford. I think he's done a little better at ND than he did there, but not much different. Urban Meyer will make this team take off next year (if we get him). We do have that to look forward to.
The only other thing I would have pointed the finger at is Malloy - and he's out as of this summer. If you ask me, the real Irish are on the way back. As they always cheer: HERE COME THE IRISH!
Lastly, I hate OSU and the entire big 10. I couldn't care less about Tressel. But I firmly believe that there is more to come in Columbus this year. His past at Y-Town has been touched upon time and time again by ESPN and many writers. Something about it must be true. I guess we'll all just have to wait and find out about that.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 04:50 PM
NBrown,
Stanford sucks at football and will always suck at Football in part because of their academic standards.
What was the score of the game last year 57-7 Notre Dame?
I would hate Ty too if I were a Stanford fan. Even when he goes 5-7, he still spanks Stanford.
Posted by: CMcFarland at November 30, 2004 04:54 PM
Cal, USC, OKLA and LSU do not have the academic standards that ND has.
OSU was solid before Tressell got there. Some would say, he won the National Championship on the back of Cooper's recruits.
You said you were an athelete, players play and coaches coach. You must have the recruits. Look at Miami over the past ten years, a farm system for the pros. But I bet at least half those kids could not get into Notre Dame and for that matter, probably would not want to go there.
What people forget is Holtz was able to recruit a different type of kid during his good stretch. Tony Rice, Chris Zorich and Michael Stonebreaker to name a few would not have been able to get into ND under the current academic standards.
Posted by: CMcFarland at November 30, 2004 05:06 PM
We have talent. Not what the previously mentioned schools have, but decent talent. Surely enough talent to have gone 9-2 this year.
That's a good start. Give Urban 3 years, and we will compete in the top 5 or 10. The point is that kids want to go to a winner. The admissions standard thing plays a role, but not that big. A coach motivates you, trains you, determines the style of play, fosters your team chemistry, and tons of other things that contribute to winning. That I can tell you as a former college athlete. The coach is responsible for getting the BEST out of the team every game. Hell, Adrian Peterson won't run for 250 if Bob Stoops isn't doing the right things. If the kid isn't in the right mind state or isn't motivated the right way, or is LOSING every other week, he also isn't gonna put up numbers wotrthy of the Heisman trophy. Ty obviously didn't ever do that with our kids - Except when he started 8-0 because there was so much hype and new change. But obviously, that died down, Ty settled in, and the real coach surfaced. Zorich, Stonebreaker, Bettis, and all those guys are remembered because they WON, not because of their grades. I'm sure we still get fairly similar kids. When we win, kids will want to play there. Until then, nevermind the grades, we don't get the best players because we don't win. No top notch kid wants to play for a loser. That's the point. Additionally, the decline started with the entrance of Malloy. Maybe the standards will change a little with the new president. But more change will come with the coach. My point is: Don't get me wrong, we could bring in BETTER talent. But we should be doing better with what we have. That issue needed to be addressed first. The other things will follow when we start to win consistently.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 05:44 PM
The decline started immediately after Lou left. It started with those "low standard" guys everyone talks about, who were left over from Lou. Davie simply failed mostly with Lou's players! The president and the following coaches are more to blame than we all admit. ND has always been hard to get into - a slight change in academic standards was a great excuse to fall back on. But let's admit, we fucked up and hired two subpar coaches under a president that had his hands in the football program way too much.
Proof - Basketball and EVERY other sport competes very well. Football just gets all the attention.
Posted by: NBrown at November 30, 2004 05:54 PM
Why would Notre Dame fire a coach who hasn't even gotten a chance to pass through at least one recruiting class? This is just simply rediculous. Notre Dame fans need to realize that in all reality, its football program can't be competitive on a national level unless they give their head coaches a chance. Shame on all of the Notre Dame alumni for pushing him out. You all have degraded a good man and should be resentful of yourselves.
I once loved the spirit and tradition of Notre Dame football, but now I will be looking to better football schools who have academic standards and can win by placing trust in their coaches. These school officials also act like human beings at other schools and they have winning football programs.
I hope Notre Dame goes winless next season to teach the alumni and the athletic director a long lesson in modern college athletics.
Posted by: Ben at November 30, 2004 06:47 PM
Hey C McFarland,
Wake up! Football is business, not personal...and not about color. We don't get great football or basketball talent by the admission's office here at Stanford. Our coaches must produce overachievers...which ain't easy year in, year out. The 30+ head coaches in other Stanford sports do just that...as 10 straight Sears Cups attest. Ever hear of the Sears Cup? Getting into Stanford is much harder than being admitted to ND. Look it up.
Willingham's teams inconsistant play at ND is the same we had in Palo Alto for 7 years. There's nothing about Ty to hate. He'd probably be the best neighbor you could ever ask for. I've met him and he's a very nice guy. Just don't put him in charge of anything because he'll immediately start playing "not to lose", and while here, he blamed our players for losses. The real sad part is all those who play for incompetent coaches never get their eligibilty back. Meanwhile, these coaches still go on to get another job in the musical chairs of collegiate and pro football. At a salary limit of $450k/yr imposed by our academic community, what kind of football coach do you think we'll end up with here at Stanford this time around?
Face it, C McFarland, if he was way in over his head at Stanford, how could ND hire him to lead their legendary program...at 4 times what he made here? Can your AD be far behind Ty?
Bill...a Stanford football ticket holder for 30 years
Posted by: BILL SEETHALER at November 30, 2004 08:01 PM
Hey C McFarland,
Wake up! Football is business, not personal...and not about color. We don't get great football or basketball talent by the admission's office here at Stanford. Our coaches must produce overachievers...which ain't easy year in, year out. The 30+ head coaches in other Stanford sports do just that...as 10 straight Sears Cups attest. Ever hear of the Sears Cup? Getting into Stanford is much harder than being admitted to ND. Look it up.
Willingham's teams inconsistant play at ND is the same we had in Palo Alto for 7 years. There's nothing about Ty to hate. He'd probably be the best neighbor you could ever ask for. I've met him and he's a very nice guy. Just don't put him in charge of anything because he'll immediately start playing "not to lose", and while here, he blamed our players for losses. The real sad part is all those who play for incompetent coaches never get their eligibilty back. Meanwhile, these coaches still go on to get another job in the musical chairs of collegiate and pro football. At a salary limit of $450k/yr imposed by our academic community, what kind of football coach do you think we'll end up with here at Stanford this time around?
Face it, C McFarland, if he was way in over his head at Stanford, how could ND hire him to lead their legendary program...at 4 times what he made here? Can your AD be far behind Ty?
Bill...a Stanford football ticket holder for 30 years
Posted by: BILL SEETHALER at November 30, 2004 08:02 PM
You people are all confused. Why do we play? We play to win the game. All of these "legendary" schools that are used to resting on the laurels of their "legendary name" like Notre Dame are lost. Recruits don't care anymore that it's Notre Dame calling. Kids want to go where they'll win. And in the game of college football, you can't win year in and year out. Even Spurrier didn't do that, not Bobby Bowden, or any of the other great coaches at great schools. You win over time. In college football, you cultivate a team over four or five seasons of having the same kids play under the same system together. The year the team perfects the system is the year that team competes for the national championship. That's how we do it down here in Florida. Notre Dame won't be any different but you guys aren't going to win until you learn how to settle in on a coach and let him coach the team. While Ty might not have been the best coach, that team won some tough games. Notre Dame Alums and fans need to get over themselves and realize that the days of college football dynasties are over. On top of that, the schedule ND has this season is completely rediculous. You guys play a potential National Champion every weekend. Get with the program, stick with the program. Hire a guy and let him run with the team. Notre Dame will struggle for years over this...but good luck anyway!
Posted by: Cleave Frink, Jr at December 1, 2004 01:23 AM
Ben,
We gave Willingham a chance.
If the Firing of Willingham was unjust he would have done what he was hired for:
1. Turn the program around completly
2. Go to 1 probably 2 BCS bowls
3. Look like we are on the road to the Nationaly Championship not a 1-10 season
We have good enough players last year we should have gone 8-3 this year 9-2 next year i think we should go 7-4 or 8-3.
Instead we went 5-7, 6-5 etc.
He played much better with Davies recruits.
Go to
www.firetywillingham.com to see ALL the reasons we are justified for firing Willingham.
Pete ND fan
PS we can still get players using our ND name - just need to get a coach to use the ND name.
ESPN was calling out loud earlier this year to fire Willingham now they r saying it is unjust.
Thats what irish fans have to deal with
Posted by: Pete at December 1, 2004 09:29 AM
Cleave,
Last I saw, Miami had 3 or 4 coaches during a 10 year span. Zook was fired after 3 years as well. Aside from FSU, I can't think of another school with a long time coach who is ultimately successful. If you look back in this discussion, many coaches have been listed who made a program work in 3 years or less. That's modern football.
Bill speaks knowledge every time he writes something on here. Shit, he had Ty at Stanford for how many years? HE IS NOT A WINNING COACH. He is a very classy guy who produces mediocre teams, PERIOD!
Why do people continue to hate on ND for pursuing a competitive team? Florida has just done the exact same thing, in the middle of a season no less, and nobody says shit! Pete hit it on the head - People just get after us EVERY move we make. It IS something the school and it's fans have to deal with. Everyone, from some of you here to ESPN writers, find some way to shit on ND for making a change. Why? Are you afraid we're one coach away from domination again, and you just won't be able to stand watching it? Well if that's the case, close your fucking eyes. Better yet, take Ty Willingham or Bob Davie, and keep them at YOUR school for the "prescribed" 5 years. And don't say another word to us until his time is up, and your team has averaged a 5-6 record.
Ty's record is exactly the same as Bob Davie's after 3 years. Do any of you ND fans really see sense in going down the same road again? 2 more years of losing to Michigan and USC by 30 or more, more blowout losses in 3 years than in the last 100, losing repeatedly at home, etc.???
Lastly, enough about the academic standards. It's not the problem. Stanford and ND finish in the top 3 of the sears cup every year. Our football team is the only one not producing. Ty was not meeting expectations. Neither was Ron Zook. What's the difference in these situations? Oh, I know, it's just one more opportunity for some of you haters to sling more shit at Notre Dame. Did you sling it on the Gators sight as well? I doubt it.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 09:59 AM
Look here Notre Dumbasses! you will never win again. you say you had 13 NFL players drafted in the early 90's? That was at least 10 years ago dumbfuck! And do you think any black players want to go to your RACIST Punk ASS school now!? YEAH RIGHT, have fun losing to USC every year forever and never getting above 500. again you are cursed!
Posted by: Bart at December 1, 2004 10:20 AM
Bart,
Quit sippin' on Homer's beer. You're lost. Up until this year, ND still had the most active players in the NFL. We had 7 players drafted last year. Racist? Please. Do me a favor and get off the hater bandwagon. The only racist here is you, singling out "black players".
Nobody on here even mentioned NFL players.
Shouldn't you be at school today learning how to write?
By the way, we were above 500 this year, dildo.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 10:33 AM
Notre Dame fans are spoiled. They never went 1-10 during Willingham's tenure and you should be damn thankful that they didn't. I hope to high Catholic heaven that Notre Dame preforms pathetically for the next 3 years. Not one coach can turn a program around completeley in 3 years. This rarely happens. I ask you to look at the NFL coaches, such as Bill Parcels. Parcels needs at least 5 years to turn that program around in the NFL so give Willingham a chance. Brady Quinn is one of the only players to be Willingham's recruit and he plays exceptionally well for being a SOPHOMORE. So learn something, and have fun watching the new coach grapple with your insatiable appetite for dynasties.
Posted by: Ben at December 1, 2004 10:40 AM
Bart, Nice comentary! Who would want to go to college to actually learn and graduate? Expecting someone to graduate must be racist. Just ask the NBA and the Pacers. College should be about ego, stupidity and crime right?
Posted by: Kevin at December 1, 2004 10:47 AM
Why is Urban Meyer, a WR coach under Bob Davie and head coach at Utah (2 years) and Bowling Green (2 years) the prodigal son? Because he turned around a Utah and Bowling Green who play absolutely nobody, or at least teams of similar talent who recruit from the same talent pool.
I'll spell it out for you, players play and coaches coach! You may be able to coach em up when you are playing similar talent week in and week out like at BG and Utah. But at Notre Dame, when you play the likes of USC, Michigan, Tennessee, etc. year in year out while recruiting from an inferior talent pool, it's a lot harder to coach em up. For every Darius Walker we have, USC has 5. USC, Miami U, OSU, Oklahoma, etc. are breeding grounds for the pros, and ND (and Stanford for the matter) cannot even sniff half of those kids because of the academic standards.
Holtz was the last recent coach who won at ND, and he won when he was able to bring in prop 48 kids, like Zorich, Rice and Stonebreaker early in his tenure. But after he began to win with those kids, they tightened up the ropes on him and raised the standards (and he began to lose), which is the reason that some feel he left. Standards will have to be lowered if any coach is to win at ND or Stanford.
It’s not the coach. If Urban Meyer was coaching ND this year, they still would have gotten spanked by USC. Anybody that watched realized they had too much speed for us play with them.
And with regard to the point that somebody brought up that we should have been 9-2 this year. Did you think we would go 9-2 this year at the beginning of the year? If someone told you at the beginning of the year that ND would be 6-5 with wins over Tenn and Michingan, you probably would have said that it was a good year.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 1, 2004 11:11 AM
Im a Black Coach from NJ. I will do everything in my power to make sure that no Black player in my region EVER attends Notre Dame.
Posted by: L. Viney at December 1, 2004 11:46 AM
6-5 is NEVER a good year at ND. We should have been 9-2. We had no business losing in the 4th quarter to inferior teams like BYU, BC, and Pitt...PERIOD! I can accept USC and Purdue beating us up and down the field. But losing games we had in hand is never acceptable. The good teams pull those games out.
Ben, if spoiled means "expect to win" and "has a huge winning tradition", then we're spoiled. But the truth is nobody likes to lose. That's athletics. If we're spoiled by that rationale, so are Nebraska, Miami, FSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Michigan fans.
You want to talk about turnarounds? NFL - You named Bill Parcells - Parcells has turned teams around. Namely, the Jets and the Patriots! IN 2 OR 3 YEARS! There are other problems in Dallas besides Parcells. And for the last time, it's not rare for a college team to be turned around in 3 years. The national champs of the last 3 years are proof! Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU, and USC all underwent quick turnarounds in the last 8 years.
Lastly, we CAN get sufficient talent, even when we expect kids to actually go to school. The problem is our 2 previous coaches couldn't convince the 35 or 40% of qualifying blue chippers to come to ND. Why? Because we don't win, and we haven't contended for a title in 10 years. Athletes want to win and go pro, that's all! With a coach who brings the best out in our kids every saturday, winning games we should win, you will see more quality players coming back to South Bend. Willingham just can't recruit, and he never could! Lowering standards is a cop out. Any ND alum who loves and respects their school and their education for more than the football saturdays will never agree with that. Duke and Stanford seem to do pretty damn well in basketball with decent students. You don't need low standards to win. What about the 10-2 year with Ty and the BCS year under Davie? What about the 9-2 gator bowl year under davie with Jarious at QB? IT CAN BE DONE. Davie had NEVER been a head coach, and Willingham (a .500 coach) was not what we needed. Holtz's so called "decline" was an 8-3 final year in which we turned down a bowl game. The next year (Davie's first year) we were 7-6 and off to the Independence Bowl (with Lou's low standard kids). Let the mediocrity begin. I'd love to have seen that Lou Holtz standard this year. Maybe '05. Don't underestimate a good coach.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 11:59 AM
L Viney,
The last black player we had from your state was Ron Isreal - nuff said. Ty's release had nothing to do with race, and deep down, you know it. His record speaks for itself. Drop the race card for god's sake. It had NOTHING to do with color. It's not Notre Dame's fault he didn't bring in talent. The next 2 years would have been the same. What about the 115 other 1A football schools who don't have a black coach? Oh, now that's Notre Dame's fault as well? 11-12 in 2 years doesn't cut it, no matter what color you are. Neither does more blow out losses in the last 2 seasons than in the last 100 combined. Keep separating "black players" from everyone else. It makes you the only racist I see.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 12:11 PM
NBrown,
Its not that Ty could not recruit talent. ND had a top ten class under Ty two years ago. You said it yourself, its the fact that a ND coach can only look at 30 of the top 100 HS players each year due to the academic standards. Most universities can look at 90 of the top 100 players.
There is absolutely no way that a coach can continue to have top ten classes year in and year out when you are facing the above hurdle. You may hit it big with the 30 recuits looking at one year and the next those thirty may want to be in Fla, or Brady Quinn from Ohio decides to attend OSU instead of South Bend Indiana. ND needs to be able to look at a bigger pool or be satisfied with a Stanford type football program.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 1, 2004 01:26 PM
I don't think so, man.
If we got a top class drawing from that small pool, we should be able to do it more often than not. The bottom line is: If we win more frequently, we get those kids. When we lose, those kids aren't interested. We face a challenge in that we need to do a better job of convincing the group we can get. No matter what, when you're 6-5, no top 100 kid wants to play for you.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 01:37 PM
Oh by the way NBrown, the schedule at ND is pretty tough. So if Urban doesn't go 9-2 next year will you be calling for his head. I am looking at the schedule and he should be able to do it. We will let him off the hook for the USC and Tenn games.
Sept. 10 at Michigan
Sept. 17 MICHIGAN STATE
Sept. 24 at Washington
Oct. 1 at Purdue
Oct. 8 at Pittsburgh
Oct. 15 USC
Oct. 22 BYU
Nov. 5 TENNESSEE
Nov. 12 NAVY
Nov. 19 SYRACUSE
Nov. 26 at Stanford
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 1, 2004 01:37 PM
NBrown, we are drawing from a third of the prespect pool that most schools are, and we are supposed to beat these teams when we play them.
Like I said for every Darius Walker we get, USC gets three. Admit it, we are putting the coach behind the eight ball before the season even starts.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 1, 2004 01:43 PM
Outside of Julius Jones, who is the last blue chip skill positioned game breaker that we have landed? And Darius Walker really doesn't count because he does not have the speed to hit the homerun.
I know we have put a lot of kids into the pros but have we put any all pro potential skill positioned kids into the pros in the past ten years. The ones that can change the complexity of the game. The university of Miami pumps those kids out year in and year out.
The answer is Jerome Bettis, over ten years ago. Now that can't be just the coaches fault.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 1, 2004 01:51 PM
Expecting to win is one thing.... acting as if it is your birthright to win just cause that's what you did in the past is quite something else.
Want a real tough job with a storied past and a large fan base of asininity... look no further than Tubby Smith and Kentucky basketball. Yep, he's a horrible coach all cause he lost in the round of 16 instead of the round of 8 or the final four.
It's ALL Just A Game... everybody wants to win but there is a certain amount of civility we must all observe.... at some point.
Posted by: mbh at December 1, 2004 02:17 PM
First of all, it can be mostly the coach's fault. We haven't put a GAME BREAKING position player out since Holtz left (except Julius and maybe Shane Walton). But we have put skill position players out.
Allen Rossum has played for the falcons since day 1.
Vontez Duff was drafted,
Gerome Sapp was drafted,
so was Arnaz Battle.
What about David Givens? You mean to tell me Givens can be that nice for the superbowl champs, but not in college???
We could even go so far as Hunter Smith.
Come on now, we have talent. It could be even better, but we do have talent.
But we haven't really won since Holtz left. Coincidence? Those studs rarely come from losing programs. Although they can, it happens about as often as it has for us in the last 10 years. The difference is we still put players in there, BECAUSE WE'RE TALENTED, BUT WE DON'T WIN! If we were winning, we'd have better and better players, and there would be more drafted as well. It's no coincidence that until this year, ND accounted for more active NFL players than ANY other school. And that was a long standing statistic. Also, they MUST be coached at their position for 4 years. COACHED! Once in a blue moon you have an Antwan Randle El who goes on pure athleticism.
Second, I won't call for Urban's head after a year. But I will after 3. And like I said, it doesn't have to be 9-2. But let's not forget how many times we have been right at or below 500 in the last 8 years. Count up those 7-6, 6-5, 5-6, 5-7 years for me. It's WAY too many. We need to see signs of improvement. That means maybe 7-4, 8-3....eventually 9-2, 10-2 should be expected. Ty didn't show that improvement. Neither did Davie.
1997 - 7-6 Davie
1998 - 9-3 Davie
1999 - 5-7 Davie
2000 - 9-3 Davie
2001 - 5-6 Davie
2002 - 10-3 Willingham
2003 - 5-7 Willingham
2004 - 6-5 Willingham
That's 3 acceptable seasons between Davie and Ty combined. And no steady improvement in between! There must be consistency or improvement there, and there clearly is not. But what you do see is flashes of what the team COULD be and SHOULD be. The other 5 seasons are not 7-4, 8-3, etc. They are 1 game over 500, or below 500. I can almost guarantee Urban will never produce a 5-6 team.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 02:37 PM
MBH,
Unfortunately, this is a business about winning, point blank. Especially for ND, an independent, private school that takes income from the football program and puts it directly into the school's general fund. If you love Notre Dame, you must recognize that this condition comes with it. For that reason, MBH, it's not always "all just a game". It is NECESSARY that we win and make bowl appearances for the good of the University!
How about those who say 3 years wasn't enough for Ty?
Are any of them offering the same complaint for Ron Zook? (2 and 1/2 seasons!)
Jerry DiNardo?
Buddy Teevens?
They were all fired this season after 3 years, 2 of them from schools that traditionally lose!
But for Ty it wasn't enough time?
Lets put ND on an equal playing field here, if we're going to criticize. And don't even try to factor race into this equation.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 03:07 PM
L Viney,
I also hope you've sent similar messages to New Mexico State and San Jose State, just to stay consistently hateful. I'm guessing you'll be sending all your "powerhouse" players to UCLA and Mississippi State now.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 03:35 PM
NBrown- This whole thing has got nothing to do with race, I agree. What I am saying, however, is that Notre Dame alumni and fans should resent those who made the pathetic decision to fire coach Willingham, who is an apt individual who very much understands the tradition and pride of Notre Dame. He made many great strides academically, which I thought was the number one reason why Notre Dame existed in the first place. Secondarly, Willingham wished to correct the football program and bring it back to glory. No single coach in history has brought his style of offense and defense into a storied football program and had immediate success. I define "immediate" as within 4 years of coaching.
This is why I have decided to stop cheering for Notre Dame football because of the arrogance and haughtiness of the Notre Dame alumni and faculty.
Go Iowa: A great program, academic standards, and a coach who took time to turn the program around. I bet the Notre Dame folks would never want to look up to a public university. Times change.
Posted by: Ben at December 1, 2004 03:58 PM
NBrown... not sure if you thought I was factoring in race or not based on your above response or if you just through that in. My Tubby example (if it was mistaken) had nothing to do with race and everything to do with fanaticism. And yes, I'm from Lexington, KY so I know all too well.
Yeah it's a business alright... and business ignores the human element for the bottom line.
Ty's a good man and will rise again... maybe even to beat ND in a game in the future. As one of the ESPN analyst said.... "ND thinks that they're one coach away from a National Championship and that's just not the case!" Not my quote, but his.
Can't really squabble over Ty's record... but W's and L's are only part of the man. My gripe is people seem to get down right hateful attacking the person. That same sort of thing leads us back down the road to Detroit--The Malice At The Palace. Take UK Football (Dudsville)... I heard Rod Hudson prior to his resignation (should have been the head coach) had some death threats--a little ridiculous. Betcha the whining in Lexington might have been a little louder than South Bend. Ha, at 6-4 in Lexington he'd be just 2 wins away from having the Stadium named after him.
If it's all business then let ALL discuss it in business and economic terms none of which would be filled with hatefulness. And no... I didn't find you particularly hateful or anything though some of those posts were from Detroit.
Posted by: MBH at December 1, 2004 04:19 PM
Ben,
You obviously don't know the first thing about the school or its faculty making comments like that. The only people who fired Ty were the president and some of the Trustees. Again, go back and read what I wrote earlier about why football success is so important. I have news for you - the school and it's athletes have ALWAYS done well academically. It's not a huge deal that Ty kept that standard. The school does so well academically that they use it as a crutch for Ty when considering recruiting talent! Unfortunately, he didn't improve where it counted most, and where he was hired to improve the program - on the field! You may also be interested to know that Ty was not happy there, and was considering leaving on his own, because he obviously didn't have his heart in this program.
Your bandwagon fanhood is hilarious. All it shows me is that you were never an ND fan to begin with. ND fans will stick with the University through thick and thin. You do not. Iowa? High Academic Standards? Hilarious. The only reason the coach has been there so long is because 1, he showed consistent improvement (Ty didn't) and 2, Iowa doesn't insist on perfection like ND. Additionally, they can afford to lose for a while, since they collect shared money from the Big 10 every year. Lastly, I am a "Notre Dame folk", and we respect plenty of other schools. Public or Private does not matter. You really think Ty would have improved next year? If so, you're football inept. As it is, Iowa should be embarassed if you ever so much as speak their name. Because the first time they fall upon hard times, you'll probably don an Oregon hat.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 04:56 PM
Ben,
I suppose you'll hate IU, Florida, Stanford, and anyone else who makes a coaching change before 4 years is up this year. As if ND was the first school do make a decision before riding out 2 more years of losing.....
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 04:58 PM
NBrown, listen, we here down in Florida were all saying the same thing when Ron Zook was hired: Huh? After Spurrier left here anyone would have been a let down. The issue with Zook was that they rushed to hire a defensive minded coach for a team with an offensive minded history. But when they fired Zook, many of us all said the same thing.....you double talk the guy the entire time he's there...you sabotage his season year after year with speculation from the boosters who think they can coach a team themselves then you fire him midseason and ask him to finish up. Luckily for us, he's a good guy and I personally think the Florida AD looks like a big ass now that the team has won some pretty stand up games. The year ND goes 9-2 is the year they're playing for the National Championship. The point is that no one plays for he National Championship every year. 6-5 is a pretty good record considering the strength of schedule up there at ND. Maybe you guys ought to consider bowing out of the conference you're in or changing up that schedule you have and you can go 9-2 every year. What makes the ND team what it is? It's who you guys play. You play the best teams in college football year after year, game after game. You're never going to go 9-2 every year again....or even 2 years in a row. The climate of college football isn't that way anymore. If it were, Bobby Bowden would be doing it....Miami would be doing, Oklahoma, USC, Tennesee, and school after school will be doing it. But it just doesn't work that way anymore. You have to get behind a coach and live with him through the good years and the bad. If you guys don't like Ty that's fine. Get a new coach. But leave him alone and let him coach the team and accept winning seasons and losing seasons alike on the way to your next National Championship....and there will be another National Championship in Notre Dame no matter what your academic standards are. By the way, please don't change that....those standards are what sets your school apart from the rest of us....I have tremendous respect for those standards and the athletes who adhere to them. Any truth to the rumor that Ty was fired early because he's black?
Posted by: Cleave Frink, Jr at December 1, 2004 05:03 PM
MBH,
I can respect and agree with that. Ty was a GREAT guy. Kevin White even mentioned that. It's really just unfortunate that College athletics has become more a business than what it should be - education and competition. But it is what it is now, and if Notre Dame wants and needs to compete, they have to play that game.
I don't think ND was hateful or bashing in letting him go, although some fans were. I'll have to admit, I was not pleased with his recruiting or, furthermore, his decisions during many of the games this year, but I did and always will admit respect for him in every other way he represented our University. Another school under less pressure to win and profit from football will be very lucky to have him. I personally would not have complained about giving him one more year. In fact, it's what I thought we would do. But I'm not a trustee, I'm just a grad and former athlete.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 05:03 PM
Cleave,
I can respect much of what you said as well.
His firing had only to do with numbers, not the slightest bit about race. I'll place my life on that. ND is about the most accepting place I have ever been. Traditionally, we have always kept coaches a long time. Like I said, we don't have to be 9-2 every year. But this many losing seasons in the last 8 are not acceptable. Losing 3 or 4 games can be tolerated. But not 7.
Thanks for the respectful view of ND. I appreciate fans like you, and actually like Florida as well. My fiance went there, and I've experienced it from the inside a bit. It's a very cool place. I hope ND and Florida fight for the natl championship in a few years. By the way, ND is an independent, which is why we play that sick schedule, but I don't think it's an excuse. Lastly, I feel the same way for Zook that I do fot Ty. GREAT men and great coaches, but just not the guy to take their respective schools back to the top.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 05:11 PM
NBrown-
Your writing tells me that your academic standards obviously lack something to be desired. Have fun getting and "edukashun" at Notre Dame and cheering for a lack-luster football program degraded because of people like you.
Posted by: \Nacho at December 1, 2004 05:38 PM
NBrown,
Can you tell me what it is about Urban Meyer that makes you think that he is the end all be all of college coaches (I am curious I am not trying to be a smartass)? Why is he the one that is going to take ND back to greatness? I know that he was WR coach under Holtz and Davie did a great job with the talent that he had. I know he loves Notre Dame and has the ND clause just as George O'Leary did. I know he righted the ship at Utah and BG in two years, but you really can't compare those two programs to Notre Dame.
There was once a great high school coach who led his HS team to many state championships. He loved Notre Dame and even sold himself to Notre Dame and was hired as coach. His name was Gerry Faust.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 1, 2004 05:47 PM
Wacho,
Would you care to point out flaws in the writing? I actually have already graduated from Notre Dame with honors, and earned my masters degree as well.
How do I degrade the football team? You obviously know shit about the school and college football in general. You're another example of a hater - An ND wannabe who is on this site because you have nothing better to do. Obviously, whatever shit team you associate yourself with isn't entertaining you enough. Maybe BC?
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 06:13 PM
alright, I have mixed emotions on this whole thing. Yes, Tyrone's career wasn't perfect...and thats what notre dame demands...but...his first recruiting class were only sophomores...not too many kids stand out as sophomores...I think they should have let his first class graduate before they did it. But it was obvious that the issues on the team were due to the coaches. We had key receivers coming in like Stovall and McKnight, and they have been disappointments...there is no excuse for that...they are great athletes and should be excelling on the field...I can only see that it is the coaching staff's fault for the inconsistency we experience on offense. I thought this had to be done, but not so soon. Tyrone is a great man and I respect and admire him and his family. I am upset that he is leaving, but I can also see why this is good. I can def. see Urban Meyer named by next week. There is no way ND would fire a coach less than a week after the end of regular season, and a month prior to a bowl game. there is something going on behind the scenes...they have someone lined up, and I hope it's meyer. I just turned in my application to Notre Dame, so please, all of you pray for me...I want to go so bad.
Posted by: DJ at December 1, 2004 06:21 PM
CMcFarland,
First, I think it's unfair to compare anyone to Faust. He was a high school coach. The nearest thing to him would be Davie, in that neither of them had head coached collegiate programs until ND. Obviously, both of those guys were proven mistakes.
I think Urban Meyer is different for many reasons, although I think a number of guys could do the job. He's not the end all be all, or even the sole legitimate candidate - but I do like him. Here's why:
First, he's a proven offensive genius. I know BG and Utah aren't ND, but kids want to play in that innovative, agressive offensive system. And we haven't put numbers on the score board for quite some time. His teams are putting up 70 every other week! Our corners and safetys need to be improved, and I think he can find that. I also think he places a premium on bringing in team speed. That's what we lack the most.
Second, he's a dynamite recruiter. Combine his charisma around potential players with his offensive mind and his obvious love for ND, and I think you have a great fit. I think he'll make ND a much more desirable, exciting place for football players to be.
Also, the other qualities you named are not to be ignored. Additionally, he is someone who knows what ND football was all about in the Holtz days. He's probably the best guy to bring those ways back. That's what every ND fan is hoping for. (I know I am) I saw those days in person, and would love to see them again.
With that said, I think there are other great candidates. I just think Urban is the best shot. Bringing in an NFL coach scares me, because what's to say they'll recruit well? Who can guarantee they'll adjust well to the college game? I don't think the school can afford to take another chance. We need a sure thing. To me, that's Urban, Stoops, Pete Carroll, and maybe the Louisville coach. Obviouslym those first two aren't leaving their spots.
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 06:30 PM
DJ,
I agree with you. And I sincerely hope you end up at ND. You'll love every minute of it....especially if the football team rights the ship. Best of luck!
Posted by: NBrown at December 1, 2004 06:33 PM
NBrown, has the school ever considered joining a conference? Kind of a novel idea. Yes, I know, tradition and all.....but change can be good. I think it would do a couple of things immediately. First, ND would probably rule any conference immediately. That means a conference championship every year.....that's a big money game. Second, it would eliminiate the necessity to play all those difficult schedules each year. The team would get tons of rest on the easy conference games and still be in contention for a National Championship every year. Wattaya think? DJ you got my prayers....get in!
Posted by: Cleave Frink, Jr at December 1, 2004 09:43 PM
Oh yeah, NBrown, how much does the rest of the coaching staff have to do with Ty's lack of success at the school. College isn't like the pros, you don't get to change the entire coaching staff, you're kind of stuck with the guys who are there when you get there. Not trying to make excuses, clearly he wasn't able to accomplish what you guys wanted him to get done there...but any thoughts on that?
Posted by: Cleave Frink, Jr at December 1, 2004 09:47 PM
Damn, NBrown, talk about degrading anything with that kind of language!!! I would kindly ask you to place your genitalia up your rectum.
Posted by: Wacho at December 1, 2004 10:22 PM
I just watched Brady Quinn on ESPN decry the events of the last week. Even many on the Notre Dame football team, all of whom you fans cheer for, denounced these actions. When asked what kind of coach Brady Quinn would next like to have at Notre Dame, he replied "Someone like Coach Willingham."
Boy that Brady Quinn sure is a bad guy, right?
I cannot believe you people who denounce Ty Willingham. All of his players respect him very much and hold him on a high pedestal.
The Notre Dame fans, alumni, and trustees should repsect their players, students, and fellow collegiate associates by doing the same thing.
You people make me sick by degrading such a great man. Brady Quinn also thanked coach Willingham for making him "the man he is today."
When asked whether or not three years was enough to positivley affect a program, Quinn said NO.
Good job, Notre Dame. You've gone and upset many fans, many alumni, but most of all, the very people that allow Notre Dame football to exist in the first place: the players.
Posted by: Ben at December 2, 2004 02:35 AM
NBrown,
How is Urban Meyer a dynamite recruiter???? He won off the backs of other people's recuits at BG and Utah. He was at both programs for two years each. He never even got a shot to coach his recruits.
By the way there is no reason to discuss any other candidates out there. It's no secret that ND jumped the gun a little with the firing of Ty so that they would have a shot at Urban Meyer.
Read this article:
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjourna...s/10319262.htm
1 of the thirty of the top 100 recruits that we can look has decided against Notre Dame after the firing of Ty.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 2, 2004 11:03 AM
Alright, once again I'm responding...First of all I'd like to thank you guys who wished me luck...it means more than you know to me. And Ben, you have it all wrong. We aren't degrading Willingham in any way. I love the guy and I don't think that they have him enough time. But with the environment Notre Dame is playing today, it doesn't seem like we have that much time. I would have given him another year at least. But Notre Dame did not...the players understand this and we aren't saying Brady Quinn is a bad guy. So I don't know what you're talking about. Notre Dame made a decision, they aren't going to reverse it, so the best thing we can do now is deal with it and make the best of next year. This could be great for us. But know this...we all respect and admire Tyrone Willingham more than you know. He is a great, great man and Notre Dame is better for having him as a part of our program. I wish him the best of luck in his future endevours. God Bless Notre Dame.
Posted by: DJ at December 2, 2004 11:20 AM
No one has ever put into question Ty Willingham's honor, integrity, knowledge or class. The complaint s from Irish fans such as myself stem not from the man himself, but from the product he produces. Notre Dame may or may not have the talent levels that it has once had, but talent only goes so far. Talent does not account for false start penalties. It doesnt account for mismanaged clock. I take issue with the lack of FOOTBALL discipline that this team has shown over the last several years. You could take all the talent in the world and it would still amount to 7-5 if you cannot fix mental mistakes.
The other issue that I have had is playcalling. The Irish had stretches where they would consitatly throw the ball 15-20 yards downfield...march right down the field and score. And they would follow that momentum-building drive with 3 straight runs up the gut for a 4 yards and punt.
Had either of these issues shown significant improvement in the last 2 years, I would be one of the shocked and outraged fans asking why he was let go. But there was no improvement. We saw the same mediocre play week in and week out.
Oh, and I happen to think that Brady Quinn is probably an excellent human being, which is why I think it would have been a shame to leave such a talented athlete and class individual in a program that breeds inconsistancy. He may be upset now, but when his team is behind him and winning, he will see what the change was for.
Posted by: mithrandir_44 at December 2, 2004 02:39 PM
NBrown I haven't heard anything from you. Too ashamed to come out against your "A" players?
Posted by: Ben at December 2, 2004 07:58 PM
Urban Meyer just signed at Florida. I wonder if Willingham is still available! This is great. Three years ago all over again.
Posted by: CMcFarland at December 3, 2004 01:51 PM
NBrown where are you? The dark days of Notre Dame just got a little bit darker!!! When Notre Dame fires their head coach while assuming that Urban Myer would jump on board, it just exemplifies the pompous attitude the entire school has. Good luck finding a coach. Iowa's coach might not seem so bad of an option now, does he?
Posted by: ben at December 3, 2004 05:51 PM
What's this firing disease going around? Ole Miss firing their coach after one bad season? Ole Miss of all schools? It's not like they're the cradle of college football in the dirty south. I just don't get it, someone please make me understand...You guys, ND is in serious trouble here. Suddenly, it's the end of the seasn and the school doesn't have a coach in place to begin recruiting the next class. Firing a coach is fine but have a rock solid plan for a replacement. After all, money is on the line here, not to mention the futures of bright young athletes who went to the school, having been promised some kind of coaching stability.
Posted by: Cleave Frink, Jr at December 4, 2004 01:48 AM
I have lived in South Bend for many years. I never thought Urban Meyer would coach at Notre Dame. These names are being waved around by the national media not Notre Dame. The speculation, as always, is ridiculous. Notre Dame will hire a new coach and everyone will say "Hes a good fit, I never expected him" and as usual the national sports people (some who never played a sport) will be wrong again.
Remember when Notre Dame was a great school with a football team not a football team that happens to be part of a school.
Posted by: Kevin at December 6, 2004 10:12 AM
Let's see... ND is off to another swell start ("Coach Search Controversy") on their coaching search ONCE AGAIN. Let's see how they can mess it up this time.
Quiet are those who were courting the great Urban Meyer. Interesting enough, if you listen closely no one in the media is trumpeting just how long before ND, Florida had been in the mix. The media totally missed that one. Observing Urban real close when he speaks on the subject... well he's somewhat quiet on his enthusiasm of just how much earlier he had been courted by Florida. Zook got fired what two weeks or so ahead of Ty so Florida must have had a whole tracks length lead.
On a side note, while it will still boil down to dollars and sense and economics, if you caught the Dallas/Seattle NFL game last night I think former ND Graduate Julius Jones said it all when he said he owed that man (Ty Willingham) alot!.
This is the success story when a guy is hurting on his academics and he has to drop off the team to bring those up BUT the coach says bring up the grades and you've still got your spot on the team. Ty didn't have to do that but he did and Julius "now plays on Sundays".
Posted by: MBH at December 7, 2004 08:56 AM
Where is the Glory, Notre Dame Fans!! It looks like it has all faded away because of people like NBrown and the rest of the Notre Dame trustees and greedy alumn.
I have one thing to say: Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Posted by: Ben at December 8, 2004 07:25 PM
Boy you guys, ND is in serious trouble. I work in film production and yesterday, I happened to be working with MIke Grolic, a former ND player and ESPN sportscaster. He said he was saddened to see ND fire Ty. And if any of you missed, today, the President of ND said he was "...embarrassed twice as the ND President..." referring to the day Ty was fired and the day after Ty was fired...and went on to say, " I thought we were going to abide by our predcedent, which was a five-year window for a coach to display a capacity to be successful within our system." The truth is out ladies and gentleman. The AD at ND succumbed to the pressure of the boosters and forgot who he was. They let a good coach go without having a replacement in place, thinking the program would attract the names they want. Now they got guys like Marv Levy coming out of the woodwork wanting to get back into coaching. No matter how you slice it, no matter how bad anyone thinks Ty was as a coach, this thing was handled the worst way. Those players are going to be the ones suffering, not the school....the school will still get it's money.
Posted by: Cleave Frink, Jr at December 9, 2004 12:24 AM
I notice everything slowed down after the hire of Weis and the great coaching staff he is putting together. ND fans lets get away from places like this where there r so many anti nd people and go to the irish forum at irishenvy.com
Posted by: pete at December 29, 2004 02:58 PM
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By the way i dont agree with some of the posts here